Victory Park In Dallas

[TxDave]

I think you are reading too much into this. The comparisons are only being made with the kinds of signage and the effects that signage will have in a very particular area -- NOT comparisons between the entire cities themselves.

This project is not even complete, so we don't even know what the final result will actually be like. Of course it's not going to be another Times Square (typical developer hype), but if that is used as an example of the type of effect the signage and advertising may have, I don't see a problem. The fact that there has been this much discussion on this topic indicates that the developer's marketing must be working.

I don't think anyone here believes that Dallas is another New York, London, or Tokyo (or even necessarily trying to be). Those cities just have some very well known aspects that can be used as examples. Aspirations to be "better" are not uncommon for any city.

[2112]

I think you are reading too much into this. The comparisons are only being made with the kinds of signage and the effects that signage will have in a very particular area -- NOT comparisons between the entire cities themselves.

This project is not even complete, so we don't even know what the final result will actually be like. Of course it's not going to be another Times Square (typical developer hype), but if that is used as an example of the type of effect the signage and advertising may have, I don't see a problem. The fact that there has been this much discussion on this topic indicates that the developer's marketing must be working.

I don't think anyone here believes that Dallas is another New York, London, or Tokyo (or even necessarily trying to be). Those cities just have some very well known aspects that can be used as examples. Aspirations to be "better" are not uncommon for any city.

I hate it when people use reason with me. It spoils my reckless rampage.

You make good points Mr. Tex. But I think you know who the real annoying posters I am talking about.

[TxDave]

I hate it when people use reason with me. It spoils my reckless rampage.

You make good points Mr. Tex. But I think you know who the real annoying posters I am talking about.

Yes, in fact I do!

[rantanamo]

will this be dramatic? Much

[tamtagon]

will this be dramatic? Much

...if not now, then certainly this time next year when the 45 story building, just now beginning construction, nears topping out.

[RedScare]

The closer that video approach gets to completion, the more I'm beginning to think they ruined the approach to a beautiful arena. I'll withhold judgment until it's done, but I liked the 1930s look of AA Center, and this seems to be blocking the view...from that angle, at least.

[rantanamo]

I don't really like the look of the arena far away vs up close. From far away, it is what it is. Up close, its awe inspiring. The shape and form of it seem to soar, and the true enormity of the building is revealed. Especially the arches. The Plaza buildings seemlessly blend with the horizontal lines of the arena. It makes one wonder what will go on the other sides since every building in Victory so far has been different. The closest are probably the W and the upcoming The House.

[Houston19514]

...if not now, then certainly this time next year when the 45 story building, just now beginning construction, nears topping out.

What 45 story building is going up?

[713 To 214]

What 45 story building is going up?

One Victory Tower

[Houston19514]

One Victory Tower

Nice looking building. Is that already under construction? I cannot find anything online about a ground breaking or construction announcement. The only recent announcements I can find are last year's announcement of a partnership between Hillwood and Hines to construct an 18 story Victory Plaza office building.

[JasonDFW]

Nice looking building. Is that already under construction? I cannot find anything online about a ground breaking or construction announcement. The only recent announcements I can find are last year's announcement of a partnership between Hillwood and Hines to construct an 18 story Victory Plaza office building.

Site prep work only began a couple weeks ago. The schedule still says 2008 completion. None of these sites have gone up with much for press releases IMO. The 28 story Cirque is going up right now about a block away and I don't ever hear much about it. The House (another 28st I think) is going up just south of all this and should break ground asap.

Jason

[713 To 214]

Nice looking building. Is that already under construction? I cannot find anything online about a ground breaking or construction announcement. The only recent announcements I can find are last year's announcement of a partnership between Hillwood and Hines to construct an 18 story Victory Plaza office building.

http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/column...n1.78a7f00.html

Steve Brown:

Victory developers keep busy

08:16 AM CST on Friday, March 31, 2006

The northwest corner of downtown Dallas looks like a slice of the booming 1980s.

At last count, there were almost a half-dozen construction cranes sprouting over the Victory development.

And just because work is nearing completion on the W Dallas Hotel tower

[MidtownCoog]

So it seems to me that this project is direct competition for downtown, correct?

That can't be a good thing for downtown Dallas.

Is it?

[JasonDFW]

So it seems to me that this project is direct competition for downtown, correct?

That can't be a good thing for downtown Dallas.

Is it?

It looks like a good thing for downtown to me. The whole victory project is about a block from the west end. I think they will complement each other and make the entire area a better place. If the Woodall Rogers park gets put in place, I think the idea that its an extension of downtown will look more reasonable. The only thing that defines the borders now is the freeways and when you hide those things change quite a bit.

Jason

[MidtownCoog]

I guess I meant building occupancy numbers.

If I owned an empty downtown building, all this would not give me a warm fuzzy.

Are they still planing for the downtown homeless skyscraper?

[713 To 214]

I guess I meant building occupancy numbers.

If I owned an empty downtown building, all this would not give me a warm fuzzy.

Are they still planing for the downtown homeless skyscraper?

I don't think that Victory's development is going to hamper the CBD. Actually, I think it is already having the opposite effect. Within the past 18 months alone, there have been numerous lease signings and building redo's in the CBD that have contrinutred to brnging down the CBD's vacancy rate, considerably.

As far as the homeless tower, the redevelopment of that building is about to get underway.

Dallas City Council approves low-income housing project

Dallas Business Journal - 12:23 PM CST Tuesdayby Cynthia D. WebbStaff Writer

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/s...f=et59&hbx=e_du

The Dallas City Council on Tuesday approved funding for the redevelopment of a downtown building that will house homeless people and low-income residents.

The Council voted 13-1 in favor of Central Dallas Ministries' proposal for City Walk at Akard, a $23 million project designed to turn a 167,000-square-foot building at 511 N. Akard St. into apartments, office space and ground-floor retail.

The project will entail 209 apartments, including 50 for homeless people, 150 for low-income residents and nine at market rate plus office space for Central Dallas Ministries, a nonprofit that provides social services. . .

[rantanamo]

I'm assuming this will be Class A space. If that's the case, the Dallas CBD doesn't have a class A vacancy problem.

[RedScare]

I don't think that Victory's development is going to hamper the CBD. Actually, I think it is already having the opposite effect. Within the past 18 months alone, there have been numerous lease signings and building redo's in the CBD that have contrinutred to brnging down the CBD's vacancy rate, considerably.

"While demand continues to be higher in the suburban markets, it is

important to draw attention to the 105,000 square feet of positive

absorption posted by the Dallas CBD at the close of the first quarter.

Convalescing from a net yearly loss of nearly 340,000 square feet in 2005..."

-Grubb&Ellis

The CBD currently has 700,000 sf of office space under construction.

[MidtownCoog]

The CBD currently has 700,000 sf of office space under construction.

Am I bad at math, or is that a lot of space?

And a lot of existing empty space as well?

[Houston19514]

I'm assuming this will be Class A space. If that's the case, the Dallas CBD doesn't have a class A vacancy problem.

Year-end 2005 Class A Direct Vacancy Rate for the Dallas CBD: 19.1 % (Direct Vacancy Rate does not include phantom space that is currently available for sublease)

Seems like a problem to me...

[rantanamo]

You got me. They shouldn't build anymore.

challenge for you. Read up about the building and why it is not a bad thing.

[Houston19514]

You got me. They shouldn't build anymore.

challenge for you. Read up about the building and why it is not a bad thing.

Why don't you just enlighten us? (And by the way, I never said the building was a bad thing or that "they" shold not build it; but it does seem like all this new office construction in Victory and Uptown serves to continue the hollowing out of the downtown core as an office market.)

FWIW, I'm a little skeptical that this 45 story building is actually "under construction." Sounds to me like they are just doing a little "site work" to get rid of the standing water and as a PR move to help their leasing efforts. I would be very surprised if they actually start construction before announcing a hotel operator, any office leases, or anything about residential component. Perhaps, as they said in the article, something will be announced soon and construction will truly start...

Does anyone know (I mean actually know, not just hope or dream) what the sales figures are for the W, the Starck House and the other residential buildings? Just curious how the market is holding up there.

[rantanamo]

Without knowing the exact W figure, the first clue that sales are doing well was the announcement of building the second tower. The last thing I read had the first tower at 85% and the second tower sold out, as well as the Terrace being sold out except for 1 unit. That was in November. Last I heard from the Ritz-Carlton, it was nearly sold out, and they are already talking second tower. That's not a dream figure. That's from articles. Bare with me on the others. I'm sure they're posted. Most articles I've seen talk about the great sales downtown. I have no idea about The House, Azure, Stoneleigh or any of those. You could always call their leasing offices. Just know that The House just signed a grocery tenant. From reading recent articles, sales are doing better than expect for each. Of course that could just be HOPE and DREAMS.

And you're right, its being prepped. This is the first thread I've seen that said, "under construction". The hotel operator they are negotiating with is Mandarin Oriental. That has already been published. One of what I call our "go to guys" is saying August for the hoopla and actual real groundbreaking. The actual size of each component is already listed

As for office space being built in Uptown, the only space under construction are the Victory Plaza buildings ( Hillwood, team offices, Channel 8, and unnanounced retail component.) Apparently there is a lot of demand in that submarket for larger spaces with the vacancy rate hovering around 10%. Apparently(According to Crescent, Hillwood, Harwood and Steve Brown) there is competition in Uptown for some tenants looking for larger chunks of space. That's why you're seeing office projects announced. Apparently there are also tenants looking for large chunks downtown as well. That's why you are seeing a repositioning of leases in the last few months. At the same time, you have Hunt building their own HQ downtown and leaving one of these large chunks in Fountain Place and Bank One and Chase Merging, leaving a large chunk in the Bank One building. That's all I meant.

[Dallasboi]

"While demand continues to be higher in the suburban markets, it is

important to draw attention to the 105,000 square feet of positive

absorption posted by the Dallas CBD at the close of the first quarter.

Convalescing from a net yearly loss of nearly 340,000 square feet in 2005..."

-Grubb&Ellis

The CBD currently has 700,000 sf of office space under construction.

Yeah...That's 700,000 sq. Ft. of pre-leased space at that!!!!

[713 To 214]

W Hotel nearing completion

photos

more

one more

[slfunk]

Mandarin Oriental Hotel announces its project in Victory. Website:

http://www.mandarinorientaldallas.com

or you can visit

www.victorypark.com

Animation of what the big screens will look like and how they may operate. I am guessing they are sliding on the structure. Crews are currently installed the first few screens.

http://www.victorymedianetwork.com/

[KinkaidAlum]

Wow.

Mandarin Oriental is some kind of swank. They just started their bldg here in Boston and the average asking price is SIX MILLION.

First the W. Then the Ritz. Now the Mandarin.

Gotta hand it to Dallas, that's a trifecta for sure!

[firstngoal]

Wow.

Mandarin Oriental is some kind of swank. They just started their bldg here in Boston and the average asking price is SIX MILLION.

First the W. Then the Ritz. Now the Mandarin.

Gotta hand it to Dallas, that's a trifecta for sure!

My thoughts exactly... Dallas is fortunate to have major real estate players who are focused on making sure the city has the latest and greatest retailing and hospitality ventures. Good for Dallas... and good for those of us that work in and visit the Metroplex from time to time. Here is another announcement in the Wall Street Journal...

Mandarin Hotel

To Beef Up Project Outside of Dallas

By THADDEUS HERRICK

May 10, 2006; Page B12

A $3 billion mixed-use project on the outskirts of downtown Dallas will include the region's first Mandarin Oriental Hotel, in a deal expected to be announced today, providing the development with a big boost.

Victory Park, a 75-acre project spearheaded by Ross Perot Jr.'s Hillwood, is one of a few ambitious U.S. developments that seek to create large-scale urban neighborhoods from scratch. Another particularly notable example, with almost twice the acreage of Victory Park, is Atlantic Station, in Atlanta; it was co-developed by AIG Global Real Estate Investment Corp. and Jacoby Development Inc.

The Mandarin Oriental Dallas would be Victory Park's second major luxury hotel. A W Hotel and residences are set to open June 15. Construction on the Mandarin is expected to begin early next year. It is scheduled to open in 2009, with 120 rooms occupying the first 11 floors of the project's signature high-rise, a 43-floor building to be known as Victory Tower. An additional 90 residences on floors 23 to 43 will range in price from $850,000 to $6 million.

Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, a unit of Mandarin Oriental International Ltd., is incorporated in Bermuda and owned in part by Jardine Matheson Group.

Mr. Perot said the Mandarin deal would mark a major milestone "in our endeavor to create Dallas' premier neighborhood." Though welcomed by Dallas's nearby central business district, Victory Park is nonetheless likely to compete with the city's traditional downtown.

The son of the former presidential candidate, Mr. Perot is building his project in the shadow of a new $420 million basketball and hockey arena. In addition to the W Hotel, owned by Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc., two midrise residential buildings are to open in the fall, plus a retail and office plaza. The master plan calls for 12 million square feet of retail, residential and office space.

[slfunk]

We are wondering if WSJ has the time line right. They have mentioned construction to start early next year, however they currently digging a massive whole at the site. I could see it taking that long to get all the site work done before it starts rising. That is only 7 months, and it is one massive whole.

[tcole]

I have heard that Hillwood may be having some difficulty leasing the office space with all the overhand in DT Dallas. That may explain the foot dragging