Fort Bend Parkway Toll Road

[Willowisp]

For getting to the Med. Center, I'm sure it's a godsend because S. Main is like a freeway all the way to 610. But if you live down in Missouri City or Sienna Plantation and you want to avoid 59 and get to the Galleria/Bellaire/Greenway, you get dropped off at Chimney Rock or S. Main & S. Post Oak. Then you drive up Bellfort or S. Post Oak to the on ramp of 610 at Bellfort & S. Post Oak. That's where it's a problem. There are schematics of the Ft. Bend Tollway extending from S. Main where it stops now to go all the way to the 610 loop, but they are on hold.

I actually can't be sure if all that traffic is coming from the Ft. Bend Tollway, but it's gotten worse since that opened. There are also a lot of people coming from neighborhoods South of S. Main that drive up S. Post Oak to 610.

Jason

I thought the concept was to speed people into and out off the Medical Center (or Main Street) area to Ft. Bend. If it's backing up around Post Oak, that seems like a serious design flaw.

[klein]

Photos of the construction can be found here.

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/fort_bend_2003-10-15.aspx

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/fort_bend_2003-11-30.aspx

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/fort_bend_2004-03-07.aspx

http://www.houstonfreeways.com/modern/2004-09-01_fort_bend_parkway.aspx

[Willowisp]

Willowbend Civic Club had HCTRA at our last general meeting and they said that the extension to extend the tollway from Main to 610 is on hold for the foreseeable future. They said that they learned a lot from the Westpark Tollway and that they will have to do a lot of research before putting a tollway adjacent to a neighborhood (Willowbend, Post Oak Manor).

My question though is more about S. Post Oak. I have lived adjacent to S. Post Oak for nearly 3 years now and I've noticed more and more people using its 6 lanes for their commute. It is bumper to bumper as early as 6:30am. Where is everyone coming from?! I'm sure all the people are frustrated with this area as it gets backed up every day and there seems to be no end to it.

Someone at the meeting suggested fly-over/no stop-light entrance ramps from S. Main "freeway" to 610. Could this work? People would possibly be more encouraged to take S. Main to 610 and leave that little "short-cut" of S. Post Oak out of the equation, even if it meant an extra mile and a half of driving.

Anyone see a solution to the woes of S. Post Oak's morning drive?

Jason

[TheNiche]

Someone at the meeting suggested fly-over/no stop-light entrance ramps from S. Main "freeway" to 610. Could this work? People would possibly be more encouraged to take S. Main to 610 and leave that little "short-cut" of S. Post Oak out of the equation, even if it meant an extra mile and a half of driving.

Anyone see a solution to the woes of S. Post Oak's morning drive?

Jason

The difference between the two routes is 2.7 miles. For the detour to S. Main flyovers to make sense for a commuter, it'd require that they be able to keep an average speed for that segment that was 2.1 times that of the average speed using the Post Oak route; and that isn't counting for out-of-pocket expenses or vehicle depreciation, so I'd just round it up to 2.5 times the Post Oak speed for a good rule-of-thumb number. That means that if the speed on Post Oak averages 20mph, the detour would have to average 50mph. Since the South Loop typically is congested from about Stella Link (or further) in the mornings, and considering that the flyovers would increase the volume of traffic along that segment, I'd be doubtful that it would be seen as a viable option for most people. ...and of course, looking forward five to ten years, the development of the 288 corridor is probably going to result in increased congestion along that route even in a no-build scenario.

Rather than just fighting it outright, I'd suggest that the civic associations push for a configuration that is more amenable to your quality of life concerns. Check out the intersections of Wayside & Lawndale and OST & Griggs. Grade seperations at intersections allow for greater volumes of traffic to be handled, but at the same time, they don't take up as much right of way or cause major access limitations to adjacent commercial properties, and when below-grade, it also reduces traffic noise. Also use landscaping to help mitigate noise, just as Bellaire has done along the West Loop.

I'd imagine that the ideal outcome would be to reconstruct that segment of Post Oak with a trenched toll road with the existing road cantilevered at the sides so as not to reduce capacity or access available to the neighborhoods. That is expensive, of course, but if the HCTRA can't afford it, then I'd suggest that you talk to your state legislators and city officials about setting up a Public Improvement District (PID) or something similar so as to pay for the extra costs with a special taxing jurisdiction. If it's that difficult for you folks to get around as it is--and it isn't going to get any better on its own--this may actually be a viable option. ...and one that could serve as a pilot program for other places in Texas with similar issues.

[Willowisp]

I like that idea quite a bit. I'm probably one of the few in the neighborhood "slightly" in favor of HCTRA taking over the road. I feel like the city or state doesn't take care of it. The soundwall is woefully inadequete and they don't use any new technologies like putting a sound barrier on the bridge, or using sound absorbtive (sp?) asphalt or anything, especially beautification as Bellaire has done. I've planted more trees in the last 3 years along that stretch than they have I bet. So I feel like my needs would be served by a toll road, but it seems like one of those be careful what you wish for propositions.

2.7 miles, eh? If S. Post Oak averages 20mph between those 2 streets I'd be surprised. Fortunately, I get on at Willowbend so I don't have to drive it all the way from S. Main.

Thanks for the input.

Jason

The difference between the two routes is 2.7 miles. For the detour to S. Main flyovers to make sense for a commuter, it'd require that they be able to keep an average speed for that segment that was 2.1 times that of the average speed using the Post Oak route; and that isn't counting for out-of-pocket expenses or vehicle depreciation, so I'd just round it up to 2.5 times the Post Oak speed for a good rule-of-thumb number. That means that if the speed on Post Oak averages 20mph, the detour would have to average 50mph. Since the South Loop typically is congested from about Stella Link (or further) in the mornings, and considering that the flyovers would increase the volume of traffic along that segment, I'd be doubtful that it would be seen as a viable option for most people. ...and of course, looking forward five to ten years, the development of the 288 corridor is probably going to result in increased congestion along that route even in a no-build scenario.

Rather than just fighting it outright, I'd suggest that the civic associations push for a configuration that is more amenable to your quality of life concerns. Check out the intersections of Wayside & Lawndale and OST & Griggs. Grade seperations at intersections allow for greater volumes of traffic to be handled, but at the same time, they don't take up as much right of way or cause major access limitations to adjacent commercial properties, and when below-grade, it also reduces traffic noise. Also use landscaping to help mitigate noise, just as Bellaire has done along the West Loop.

I'd imagine that the ideal outcome would be to reconstruct that segment of Post Oak with a trenched toll road with the existing road cantilevered at the sides so as not to reduce capacity or access available to the neighborhoods. That is expensive, of course, but if the HCTRA can't afford it, then I'd suggest that you talk to your state legislators and city officials about setting up a Public Improvement District (PID) or something similar so as to pay for the extra costs with a special taxing jurisdiction. If it's that difficult for you folks to get around as it is--and it isn't going to get any better on its own--this may actually be a viable option. ...and one that could serve as a pilot program for other places in Texas with similar issues.

[gay]

I attended the Willowbend Civic Association meeting two weeks ago where an engineer and an operations manager from HCTRA discussed the possible extension of the Fort Bend County Tollway to 610 via South Post Oak.

Because the HCTRA has many other projects in the planning or schematic stage, I understood that the actual construction of the South Post Oak extension may take years. However, the HCTRA personnel at the meeting stated that HCTRA would appoint an engineer by the end of 2008 who would devise a plan to extend the Fort Bend County Tollway in the subsequent 9 months (2009). I heard the HCTRA operations manager strongly suggest that impacted neighbors have the next 18 months to offer questions, suggestions and feedback. Once HCTRA adopts a plan, the neighborhoods will have little recourse.

Gay

[Ptarmigan]

Here is a link where you can see the Fort Bend Parkway. The Missouri City Antennae Farm is visible.

http://www.aaroads.com/texas/ftbendpkwy.html

[Dub]

Yeppirs that's it alrighty.... Note that it is exclusively EZ Tag only now. Cash payment lanes have been barricaded off

[Subdude]

Interesting. It looks kind of desolate in the photos.

[Dub]

Interesting. It looks kind of desolate in the photos.

Very desolate out there which was probably one of the reasons to take the cash machines out of the toll plaza (too easy to hijack), plus they can now can go after the toll runners and collect the $1 fee plus $17 service fee. Win Win for the Toll Road Authority.....

Edited July 15, 2008 by Dub

[Highrise Tower]

Very expensive project if it's accurate. $350 million. Chimney Rock Connectivity at Fort Bend Tollway.

[Avossos]

What on earth are they doing?

[zaphod]

Yeah this is weird. Is it possible the $350 million actually reflects the total cost of a much larger project or silo of funding this comes out of and is on the permit due to some arcane bureaucratic procedure? It's still a ton of dough though, even if they were proposing to extend the mainlanes of the Fort Bend Tollway below grade underpass beneath the feeders and train tracks with the South Main overpass and existing flyovers above(looking at the location in google maps it almost seems like this was planned because there's a pavement stub where the tollway ends and the ramps split off from the outside to go up and over.), would it cost that much?

 

I don't know if that intersection even really needs that much improvement since it just dumps into West Airport anyways with another light. What might be more interesting is if they finally had West Airport and regular Airport connect, with a bridge over the tracks/freeway then curve around and buy out/eminent domain a couple small properties to join up. They already shamelessly carved up that subdivision east of Buffalo Speedway to create a seemingly redundant east-west linkage to Hiram Clarke. Maybe it could go all the way?

Or maybe the paperwork clerk down at TDLR needs to call the help desk for a new keyboard, the zero key is stuck.

Edited February 6, 2021 by zaphod

[rechlin]

There is no way a 2000 square foot project costs $350m.  There is clearly something missing here, assuming no typos.

[august948]

2 hours ago, zaphod said:

Yeah this is weird. Is it possible the $350 million actually reflects the total cost of a much larger project or silo of funding this comes out of and is on the permit due to some arcane bureaucratic procedure? It's still a ton of dough though, even if they were proposing to extend the mainlanes of the Fort Bend Tollway below grade underpass beneath the feeders and train tracks with the South Main overpass and existing flyovers above(looking at the location in google maps it almost seems like this was planned because there's a pavement stub where the tollway ends and the ramps split off from the outside to go up and over.), would it cost that much?

 

I don't know if that intersection even really needs that much improvement since it just dumps into West Airport anyways with another light. What might be more interesting is if they finally had West Airport and regular Airport connect, with a bridge over the tracks/freeway then curve around and buy out/eminent domain a couple small properties to join up. They already shamelessly carved up that subdivision east of Buffalo Speedway to create a seemingly redundant east-west linkage to Hiram Clarke. Maybe it could go all the way?

Or maybe the paperwork clerk down at TDLR needs to call the help desk for a new keyboard, the zero key is stuck.

$5M for the work and $345M for the kickbacks.

[Triton]

The only thing I can think of are underpasses to bypass the train track.

[JLWM8609]

It sounds like they're completing the gaps in the feeders between S. Main and W. Orem going by the description, but those gaps are less than 1/2 mi, and should be WAY less than $350m.

[JLWM8609]

On 2/6/2021 at 11:53 AM, zaphod said:

I don't know if that intersection even really needs that much improvement since it just dumps into West Airport anyways with another light. What might be more interesting is if they finally had West Airport and regular Airport connect, with a bridge over the tracks/freeway then curve around and buy out/eminent domain a couple small properties to join up. They already shamelessly carved up that subdivision east of Buffalo Speedway to create a seemingly redundant east-west linkage to Hiram Clarke. Maybe it could go all the way?

There are plans for an eventual W. Airport overpass. It was seen here in the schematics for the US90A freeway in the early 2000s: http://www.texasfreeway.com/Houston/schematics/90a/images/90a_7_west_airport.jpg

You can see the stubouts for the eventual connection on the EB feeder

https://goo.gl/maps/f4NH56ebsgQg58Fy8

[august948]

I found this little tidbit in the 2021-2025 CIP document ( https://www.houstontx.gov/cip/21cipadopt/e_street.pdf  )

The only expenditure for this project is in 2021 for, you guessed it, $5.1M.

Quote

N-100036 Chimney Rock Connection at Ft Bend Toll Fiscal 2021   Project Total 5,100

Total is in 1,000's

I'm sure there's more to this, but it sure looks strange on the surface.

[ChannelTwoNews]

This is about to start moving further past Sienna Plantation. 

https://www.fbctra.com/projects/