Pasadena Homeowner Kills Men Burglarizing Neighbor's House

[Mark F. Barnes]

Sounds like the caller had a few himself........Jerry Springer will show up next.

[Jeebus]

So, now people are threatening to go all vigilante on the vigilante?

Threat Left At DA's Office

So the caller states: "What you better do, you better indict Joe Horn. If you don't, somebody is going to kill him, and if he goes to prison, he's going to be killed on the inside."

Glad to know that old Joe's got some options.

[JLWM8609]

So, now people are threatening to go all vigilante on the vigilante?

Threat Left At DA's Office

Jeez, I need a drink. Talk amongst yourselves.

I hate to reinforce a negative stereotype, but some of those Colombians can be ruthless when it comes to revenge.

[LarryDallas]

Say what you will but we now live in a time when people refuse to get involved to put a stop to crime because they are either scared, fear legal problems, do not want retaliation, suffer from apathy etc...or a combaination of them. People were much safer in America in their hometowns in the past because as Mr. Horn did...you got lead in your body instead of a ride in a cop car and a court date if you did something like steal property.

On a side note, the govt. at all levels is NOT there to fix problems like crime for good. If this was accomplished then at some point there would be no need to have the govt. serve this function anymore. Police, lawyers, judges, jailers, etc....all would be out of work and there would be no means for a bureaucracy to govern a population that is self reliant. Tons of BS jobs (mainly politics) would be gone as well. It is hillarious when you see people run for office and say they want to fix these problems. NO THEY DON'T...they just want to give the illusion that they are so they are valued by the constituants.

Anywho both of the burglars were illegal immirgants and one of them had been deported in 1999 so there is the govt. at work for you. They were also involved in other crimes including some fake ID scam. The border is wide open for anyone to just walk in repeatedly yet we talk about security.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5359290.html

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=...&id=5819258

[Mark F. Barnes]

Let the games begin.

[KatieDidIt]

I hate to reinforce a negative stereotype, but some of those Colombians can be ruthless when it comes to revenge.

No joke. I lived in Miami for 10 years. The news stories about the Columbian drug dealers were beyond gruesome.

[TJones]

Is this how we "do things in Texas"?

2 men shot in back according to autopsy

I don't feel real sorry for the men, or that twit of a girlfriend who seems to love on-air theatrics about what a wonderful person her fiance was (yeah, right)...but shooting someone in the back? Isn't that what most Texans call cowardly?

Joe can't help it if the men were quick enough to turn and run when he started firing, Parrot. At first the information I heard was that one was shot in the chest, the other in the side. An eyewitness comes forward, a credible one, and I now think after the criminals saw Joe draw down on them after they started running toward him, they wised up and tried to turn and make a break for it, then BOOM, BOOM........ out go the lights. Two less scumbags out there to possibly break into my house and steal my stuff.

[memebag]

Joe can't help it if the men were quick enough to turn and run when he started firing, Parrot.

...

Two less scumbags out there to possibly break into my house and steal my stuff.

You mean two scumbags who have god-like turning abilities.

You'd think if they had the ability to turn around during the time it takes a shotgun blast to reach them, they would have just stepped out of the way. Perhaps they were suicidal and just trying to make Joe Horn look bad.

[Fringe]

False convictions are a big problem with or without the death penalty. There might be something to be said, though, for using the death penalty with greater frequency, if only to really impress upon the jury the seriousness of "innocent until proven guilty."

Don't know where you’re getting your figures from but I believe your way over-estimating the amount of false convictions. Not saying it does not occur but I don’t believe it’s that frequent. Most probably deserved to be behind bars anyway. The police don’t just randomly go out and pick someone off the street for crimes committed.

If a child in a neighborhood is molested. Who do you think they are going to go after? Known pedophiles. If it’s a robbery or shooting, they are going to look at all the gang-bangers in the area and if they don’t have an alibi then they become prime suspects. Many times they don’t have alibis because they were doing something else illegal.

I do believe there have been way to many criminals exonerated for crimes because of technicalities and our criminal justice system that seems to care more about the criminals than the victims.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Only thing that smells about this "witness" is the fact he says he was there. First off it was suppose to be a plain clothes officer on the scene, that was cowering in his car fearing he may be shot? If he's been a cop long enough to be in plain clothes, he is trained to diffuse a situation like this very one. He is also sworn an oath to uphold the law no matter what. If he was on the scene he should have been out of his vehicle when he drove up, badge in plain view hollering "Halt, Freeze, Police" something just stinks of bullshit here. I talked personally to Ranger that was dispatched the scene, and he had no knowledge of any officer on the scene when the actually shooting took place. I haven't been in touch with Kevin since this witness came forward out of the blue, but I will see him sometime this week I am sure to get his opinion of all of this. Joe Horn seemed pretty obedient when the police walked up on him after the shooting according to the recording, they told him to freeze and he did, asked where the gun was, and he said in the chair. Didn't sound too out of control then.

Look at it from this angle, hypothetically, if this officer rolled up not knowing what was going on, and sees two men coming at another man with a gun, was there long enough to witness all of this, sees the men turn to run and then sees Joe Horn shoot them both. Not knowing who was robbing who, should he not have drawn his pistol and apprehended the man with the weapon on the spot, and not given him enough time to go back inside and call 911 again and hold another two minute conversation with the dispatcher and then apprehend him when he came back outside? Was he waiting on backup? It was one elderly man with a shotgun, two gang bangers with Uzis. Something stinks about this so called eye witness, that was supposedly a trained police officer, and more than likely a veteran cop in plain clothes. Why haven't they produced a transcript of the police radio transmissions, when he rolled up on the scene and all of this is happening? Any other time it would have been all over the place by now. All police frequencies are taped and archived for a 7 day period, for just cases like this to nail down a time line and corroborate any eye witness testimony such as this. Just all seems a bit strange, how all of a sudden here is this police witness to the whole thing.

Can't find Pasadena's version but I feel it's pretty close.

All officers must swear (or affirm) to the following statement:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I am duly qualified, according to the Constitution of this State, to exercise the duties of the office to which I have been appointed, and that I will, to the best of my ability, discharge the duties thereof, and preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of this State and of the United States of America.

I further swear (or affirm) that I will enforce the ordinances of the City of Houston and the State of Texas, protect the life and property of its citizens, that I will diligently seek to detect crime and to apprehend the perpetrators or crime, that I will be ever mindful of the trust that has been placed in my by the officials and citizens of the City of Houston, and will make every effort to live up to that trust.

So help me God.

[TheNiche]

Don't know where you

[memebag]

Any number of false convictions is a big problem. I didn't provide any figures because we know there to have been one or more, historically.

Yeah, I think killing one innocent person is enough to get rid of the death penalty. I googled a page that claimed (back in 2004) that at least 140 people convicted of first degree murder were exonerated by DNA evidence, and at least 13 of those were on death row at some point.

As a tax payer and citizen, I'm responsible for that. I don't want that blood on my hands.

[TheNiche]

As a tax payer and citizen, I'm responsible for that. I don't want that blood on my hands.

Well if you're a taxpayer that doesn't like the level of efficiency that I've proposed, then start a non-profit jail that keeps people jailed for life (or until you run out of money). Those with your sense of morality can contribute to the effort; those without objection don't have to. Moral dillema solved.

[Vertigo58]

So the witness protection program is assisting Mr Horn? He has supposedly been whisked away as we type. Wonder if he lived alone, if not I really feel for his family/relatives. The threats will increase no doubt.

[TJones]

So the witness protection program is assisting Mr Horn? He has supposedly been whisked away as we type. Wonder if he lived alone, if not I really feel for his family/relatives. The threats will increase no doubt.

He actually was living with his daughter and granddaughter. I am not sure in who's name the house is under though.

[Fringe]

Like it or not, we are in a war against crime and there are going to be casualties. Perhaps this war would not be so bad if we got tough on criminals in the first place. For every "wrong" conviction you talk about I could point out a hundred crimes committed by repeat offenders. This hand slapping we are presently imposing is not working. Jail these days is not a deterent. I would gladly give up the death penalty if liberals would make serving time a harsh merciless experience instead of a “vacation for criminals”.

[CDeb]

Anyone read the book version of "Catch Me If You Can?"

Frank Abagnale's description of conditions in the French prisons was chilling, designed to discourage repeat offenders.

It would sure as hell work for me.

[RedScare]

Like it or not, we are in a war against crime and there are going to be casualties. Perhaps this war would not be so bad if we got tough on criminals in the first place. For every "wrong" conviction you talk about I could point out a hundred crimes committed by repeat offenders. This hand slapping we are presently imposing is not working. Jail these days is not a deterent. I would gladly give up the death penalty if liberals would make serving time a harsh merciless experience instead of a

[TheNiche]

I wonder where are these "liberals" you speak of? The Texas legislature is majority Republican in both houses. Every criminal judge in Houston is a Republican. Every judge on the Court of Criminal Appeals is Republican. I have no problem with your statement that the criminal justice system is broken, or at least in need of repair. However, the blame for its demis should be placed where it belongs. "Liberals" have not held office in Texas in at least 14 years. Seems to me the problem is not "liberals" at all, but Republicans. If voters such as yourself continue to blame a group that isn't even in office, you will continue to reap what you sow.

But, I bet it makes you feel good to blame the "liberals", so knock yourself out.

Red, I think LunaticFringe is indicating that those in office are too liberal, whatever their party affiliation might be.

[Fringe]

It's the "liberals" who seem to come out of the woodwork whenever someone mentions getting tough on crime. It's the "liberals" that are more concerned about the criminal then the victim. Where do they come from? You got me, but they are definitely out there. Being Republican has nothing to do with it.

And yes it does make me feel good,

[Mark F. Barnes]

All of that is very true Red, there is no real way to distinguish Liberals by any one Political Party, there are Liberals on both sides just as there are conservatives on both sides. If a person wants to blame society they first might take a hard look in the mirror, myself included, and get a good look at who to start the blame with. We as a whole are guilty as any. I doubt there is one person here that is harder on their kids than their parents were on them. We've all learned to lighten up somewhat, it's just the wave of societal growth. Call it evolution of civilization or whatever, it's just the way things have gone.

Instead of attempting to focus on whose to blame or not, why don't we focus our time on how to correct the issue. It's no easy quick fix, but you have to start somewhere.

[RedScare]

Red, I think LunaticFringe is indicating that those in office are too liberal, whatever their party affiliation might be.

Actually, having read several of his posts, I am confident that he is just repeating what he heard on talk radio.

[Fringe]

Actually, having read several of his posts, I am confident that he is just repeating what he heard on talk radio.

Only if it's about sports!

[memebag]

Well if you're a taxpayer that doesn't like the level of efficiency that I've proposed, then start a non-profit jail that keeps people jailed for life (or until you run out of money). Those with your sense of morality can contribute to the effort; those without objection don't have to. Moral dillema solved.

Huh?

[TheNiche]

Huh?

There are some taxpayers (call them Group A) in the world that don't like it when their money is wasted on incarcerating people that are a danger and burden to society, and would be in favor of euthenasia, just like a ferrel dog. There are other taxpayers (Group B ) that want to spend not just their money but everyone's money keeping criminals with no hope of ever living in society again alive for some reason.

So I propose that the state adopt Group A's plan for the sake of efficiency, but create a means whereby Group B can provide funding of their own free volition so as to keep as many prisoners alive as possible for as long as possible, if that's what they really want.

What I'm proposing basically, is a means whereby people who place importance upon something pay for it and that people that don't consider it important don't pay. Any other system is embracing a form of theft, IMO.

[Fringe]

There are some taxpayers (call them Group A) in the world that don't like it when their money is wasted on incarcerating people that are a danger and burden to society, and would be in favor of euthenasia, just like a ferrel dog. There are other taxpayers (Group B ) that want to spend not just their money but everyone's money keeping criminals with no hope of ever living in society again alive for some reason.

So I propose that the state adopt Group A's plan for the sake of efficiency, but create a means whereby Group B can provide funding of their own free volition so as to keep as many prisoners alive as possible for as long as possible, if that's what they really want.

What I'm proposing basically, is a means whereby people who place importance upon something pay for it and that people that don't consider it important don't pay. Any other system is embracing a form of theft, IMO.

That's WAY to logical.

[memebag]

There are some taxpayers (call them Group A) in the world that don't like it when their money is wasted on incarcerating people that are a danger and burden to society, and would be in favor of euthenasia, just like a ferrel dog. There are other taxpayers (Group B ) that want to spend not just their money but everyone's money keeping criminals with no hope of ever living in society again alive for some reason.

So I propose that the state adopt Group A's plan for the sake of efficiency, but create a means whereby Group B can provide funding of their own free volition so as to keep as many prisoners alive as possible for as long as possible, if that's what they really want.

What I'm proposing basically, is a means whereby people who place importance upon something pay for it and that people that don't consider it important don't pay. Any other system is embracing a form of theft, IMO.

But it costs more to execute people than it does to keep them incarcerated for life. So Group A is based on a false premise.

[millennica]

Yeah, I think killing one innocent person is enough to get rid of the death penalty. I googled a page that claimed (back in 2004) that at least 140 people convicted of first degree murder were exonerated by DNA evidence, and at least 13 of those were on death row at some point.

As a tax payer and citizen, I'm responsible for that. I don't want that blood on my hands.

On 25 November 2007, the New York Times published a series of articles that discuss the 200+ prisoners almost all incarcerated for murder or rape who were exonerated by DNA evidence since 1989. The Times gathered information on 137 of them and interviewed 115 of them. An excerpt for the Times article and the link to the complete article follow below:

Free and Uneasy

A Long Road Back After Exoneration, and Justice Is Slow to Make Amends

By JANET ROBERTS and ELIZABETH STANTON

Published: November 25, 2007

Christopher Ochoa graduated from law school five years out of prison and started his own practice in Madison, Wis. He has a girlfriend and is looking to buy a house.

Michael Anthony Williams, who entered prison as a 16-year-old boy and left more than two years ago as a 40-year-old man, has lived in a homeless shelter and had a series of jobs, none lasting more than six months.

Gene Bibbins worked a series of temporary factory jobs, got engaged, but fell into drug addiction. Four and a half years after walking out of the Louisiana State Penitentiary at Angola, he landed in jail in East Baton Rouge, accused of cocaine possession and battery.

The stories are not unusual for men who have spent many years in prison. What makes these three men different is that there are serious questions about whether they should have been in prison in the first place.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/us/25dna.html

[Jax]

What I'm proposing basically, is a means whereby people who place importance upon something pay for it and that people that don't consider it important don't pay. Any other system is embracing a form of theft, IMO.

So in that case, people without cars shouldn't have to pay for the roads, and people without kids shouldn't have to pay for public schools. And people who are not in favor of war wouldn't have to pay into the military budget. I don't see how anything like that could ever work. If taxes were voluntary, we'd most likely have to world's worst school system, military, and transportation system, not to mention lots of other problems.

[TheNiche]

But it costs more to execute people than it does to keep them incarcerated for life. So Group A is based on a false premise.

Only because of all the red tape. We need to dramatically overhaul and streamline the process.

I said that many posts ago.