2007-2008 Crude Oil Cost

[crunchtastic]

$122 freaking dollars. . . sheesh!

Hang on, there's more.......

Goldman's Murti Says Oil `Likely' to Reach $150-$200 (Update4)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=ayxRKcAZi630&

[TheNiche]

Not much collectively, but a bunch of dictators will be rolling in it like the Saudis pretty soon.

What, you mean in ways that the African dictators wouldn't be if they sold their oil to the U.S. at the same price? Is China paying them some kind of a price premium to ensure that the oil goes to them, or what? And if they're doing that, why not just engage in commodities hedging like Southwest Airlines had been doing to put a collar on their energy prices?

Something just doesn't quite make sense here. Links, anybody?

Dealing with Zimbabwe and Sudan could also blow up in their faces. Investment in Africa comes with a lot of risks. Investment with the most brutal dictatorships is even riskier. Tanzania was considered politically stable with a vibrant economy a few months ago.

Arms trading, perhaps? Offering of military support to prevent coup attempts and put down rebel operations?

Technology, jobs, all that other stuff comes back to money. And if it's only about money, then it doesn't matter whose dollars they're taking.

[TheNiche]

$122 freaking dollars. . . sheesh!

For somebody whose beloved sig so ardently and annoying promotes conservation for environmental purposes, you sure are pissy about this. I'd think that each incremental dollar increase would spur a celebratory cheer.

Or are you more concerned with your ability to consume resources than for the (popular conception of the) health of the planet...like me.

[Pumapayam]

For somebody whose beloved sig so ardently and annoying promotes conservation for environmental purposes, you sure are pissy about this. I'd think that each incremental dollar increase would spur a celebratory cheer.

Or are you more concerned with your ability to consume resources than for the (popular conception of the) health of the planet...like me.

$122 Oil is not changing habits, just making them more money.

I still drive pretty much the same amount, because I have to go to work, see my friends and family, go to the grocery store.

It is just getting more expensive to do it.

[RedScare]

$122 Oil is not changing habits, just making them more money.

I still drive pretty much the same amount, because I have to go to work, see my friends and family, go to the grocery store.

It is just getting more expensive to do it.

The price of oil (more specifically, gas) IS changing habits. Read the article on METRO's increased ridership since the big gas increases. Look at GM's SUV sales numbers (down 30% last month, down 25% for the year). Look at the flat gasoline sales (even though the population is increasing). The fact that YOU have not changed your driving habits merely means we should not be paying attention to YOUR bellyaching.

And, other than Niche and I taunting you, I doubt anyone really is paying attention to it.

[jm1fd]

because I have to go to work, see my friends and family, go to the grocery store.

If you were truly concerned you'd ride your bike, walk, or take the bus to all of the above.

[houstonmacbro]

Surely some of this is due to the fact that every single product in the grocery store is delivered in trucks that are having to pay a lot more for diesel these days. Plus pretty much all machinery that farmers use require diesel.

Our entire civilization is based on oil, people have been taking it for granted for too long.

I have this question. Really ... I mean, why is solar so darned expensive? I saw something on one of those invention shows and they had some new solar technology that gets etched somehow onto glass. They said it was cheap and could be mass produced easily.

So in really sunny places (Texas, Arizon, Cali) couldn't these begin to make an impact.

Also, on one of the other shows they had these personal windmills that generated power. They were kinda like vertical and spun around like a barbers sign. Kinda cool.

But seriously, if I wanted to add 'some' solar to my personal grid why is it so difficult. No do-it-at-home kits to get you started. You almost have to be an engineer to get things moving on green energy. Oh yeah, and with a big fat bank to boot.

$122 Oil is not changing habits, just making them more money.

I still drive pretty much the same amount, because I have to go to work, see my friends and family, go to the grocery store.

It is just getting more expensive to do it.

I don't think $200 a barrel oil is gonna change much either. Especially here in Houston.

I really think it is just gonna hurt a lot of people more so than stop our ways.

The folks that can afford to will still get around, the ones that can't won't.

Folks that can't afford their big, gas guzzling cars will simply abandon them on the sides of the roads and move to car pooling, bus, or cheaper forms like the bike or scooters.

[houstonmacbro]

If you were truly concerned you'd ride your bike, walk, or take the bus to all of the above.

As I have said before --not sure here or other threads-- it is not always safe or possible to bike or walk. I live in North Houston (okay, go ahead .. throw sticks and berate me, but it is close to work and I really like it here).

Unfortunately, we do not have bike lanes or even sidewalks to most places.

The way people drive, not sure I'd want to bike on the same roads with them. Most drivers here simply do not respect people on foot or bicycles.

On Hardy Road, the side street--not the freeway, and Aldine-Westfiled (two of my routes to work) people were killed recently who were on foot.

As for visiting family, most of them live 26 miles to the south. Not exactly an easy, or safe, bike ride down I45.

[jgriff]

As I have said before --not sure here or other threads-- it is not always safe or possible to bike or walk. I live in North Houston (okay, go ahead .. throw sticks and berate me, but it is close to work and I really like it here).

Unfortunately, we do not have bike lanes or even sidewalks to most places.

The way people drive, not sure I'd want to bike on the same roads with them. Most drivers here simply do not respect people on foot or bicycles.

On Hardy Road, the side street--not the freeway, and Aldine-Westfiled (two of my routes to work) people were killed recently who were on foot.

As for visiting family, most of them live 26 miles to the south. Not exactly an easy, or safe, bike ride down I45.

I'd rather be alive than save a few bucks on gas too.

I saw a "No bicycles on the road." sign on Memorial Drive just outside the loop this weekend. I find it amazing that there needs to be a sign to keep people from engaing in an activity that is so dangerous.

[memebag]

I have this question. Really ... I mean, why is solar so darned expensive? I saw something on one of those invention shows and they had some new solar technology that gets etched somehow onto glass. They said it was cheap and could be mass produced easily.

So in really sunny places (Texas, Arizon, Cali) couldn't these begin to make an impact.

Also, on one of the other shows they had these personal windmills that generated power. They were kinda like vertical and spun around like a barbers sign. Kinda cool.

But seriously, if I wanted to add 'some' solar to my personal grid why is it so difficult. No do-it-at-home kits to get you started. You almost have to be an engineer to get things moving on green energy. Oh yeah, and with a big fat bank to boot.

It isn't difficult to add solar panels to your house. Go to somplace like Standard Renewable Energy. It is expensive because of the labor and materials involved, and it isn't very efficient because of the physics, but it's not difficult.

Edited May 7, 2008 by memebag

[houstonmacbro]

I'd rather be alive than save a few bucks on gas too.

I saw a "No bicycles on the road." sign on Memorial Drive just outside the loop this weekend. I find it amazing that there needs to be a sign to keep people from engaing in an activity that is so dangerous.

I'd like to bike to work (10 miles roundtrip) because of the health benefits. But there's no health benefits if I am dead, right?

It isn't difficult to add solar panels to your house. Go to somplace like Standard Renewable Energy. It is expensive because of the labor and materials involved, and it isn't very efficient because of the physics, but it's not difficult.

Thanks! I just took a peak at the site and put it on my Del.icio.us bookmarks for later.

[20thStDad]

It isn't difficult to add solar panels to your house. Go to somplace like Standard Renewable Energy. It is expensive because of the labor and materials involved, and it isn't very efficient because of the physics, but it's not difficult.

Expensive to the point that a friend of mine had to bail out on doing it when he did the math and the payback period was 30 years on it. That's going to deter most anyone from putting the effort and $ to it.

[houstonmacbro]

Expensive to the point that a friend of mine had to bail out on doing it when he did the math and the payback period was 30 years on it. That's going to deter most anyone from putting the effort and $ to it.

Just a thought, but couldn't the power companies start investing in it? Maybe with their scale and money the prices could come down?

[Pumapayam]

It isn't difficult to add solar panels to your house. Go to somplace like Standard Renewable Energy. It is expensive because of the labor and materials involved, and it isn't very efficient because of the physics, but it's not difficult.

Great website, but how do you think neigbors would feel seeing solar panels on the roof top? Would the city have to approve something like this?

[houstonmacbro]

Great website, but how do you think neigbors would feel seeing solar panels on the roof top? Would the city have to approve something like this?

My neighbors? Probably wouldn't care, since I've been here since November and have not met a single one of them. Most people in my hood drive out in the a.m. and zoom into their electronically controlled garage doors in the evening. No one has to be seen or apparently wants to be seen (or spoken to).

LOL

[memebag]

Expensive to the point that a friend of mine had to bail out on doing it when he did the math and the payback period was 30 years on it. That's going to deter most anyone from putting the effort and $ to it.

Yes, it doesn't make economical sense yet. Energy prices are still too low.

Just a thought, but couldn't the power companies start investing in it? Maybe with their scale and money the prices could come down?

Photovoltaic doesn't make much sense for centralized power production. It's advantage is that it can be distributed. Power companies are looking into wind and other solar systems, not photovoltaic.

Great website, but how do you think neigbors would feel seeing solar panels on the roof top? Would the city have to approve something like this?

Unless its prohibited by a deed restriction, it doesn't really matter what your neighbors think. And why would it bug anyone, anyway?

[TheNiche]

I have this question. Really ... I mean, why is solar so darned expensive? I saw something on one of those invention shows and they had some new solar technology that gets etched somehow onto glass. They said it was cheap and could be mass produced easily.

So in really sunny places (Texas, Arizon, Cali) couldn't these begin to make an impact.

Also, on one of the other shows they had these personal windmills that generated power. They were kinda like vertical and spun around like a barbers sign. Kinda cool.

But seriously, if I wanted to add 'some' solar to my personal grid why is it so difficult. No do-it-at-home kits to get you started. You almost have to be an engineer to get things moving on green energy. Oh yeah, and with a big fat bank to boot.

Realistically, PV and small-scale wind generators only really make financial sense in extreme rural and marine applications.

But just for novelty's sake, here's an example of a new home done by these guys that has been outfitted with both of these power sources and plenty of other gizmos so as that it actually sells power back to the grid in most months.

[jm1fd]

Just a thought, but couldn't the power companies start investing in it? Maybe with their scale and money the prices could come down?

They're pretty much doing that in Germany. Prices have come down some, but the manufacturing process for semiconductor based cells is inherently expensive. The real price drop will occur if/when somebody comes up with a totally new technology that is cheap to manufacture and/or has better efficency.

[houstonmacbro]

They're pretty much doing that in Germany. Prices have come down some, but the manufacturing process for semiconductor based cells is inherently expensive. The real price drop will occur if/when somebody comes up with a totally new technology that is cheap to manufacture and/or has better efficency.

Yeah, this process I spoke about earlier was seen on Invention Nation (the one with the three geeks traveling around the country in an old bus powered by grease ... I think it's on Science Channel). Anyhow, they put the glass in some kinda substance and the solar cells cling to the glass. Apparently, it is cheap. Not sure why it's still in the lab (maybe it doesn't work as well as they hope) but it sounded pretty cheap.

Also from what I remember they said it could be built directly into the glass for houses meaning no more solar 'panels'.

[RedScare]

Just a thought, but couldn't the power companies start investing in it? Maybe with their scale and money the prices could come down?

The price had been coming down for years. However, demand spiked a couple of years back, causing the price of solar panels to go back up slightly. In states such as California the tax incentives plus the price of electricity make it viable, but in Texas, the payback is still too long to make it worth it.

[millennica]

The discussion about solar panels is interesting, especially since for the past week or so I've been thinking about and researching the benefits of having solar panels installed on my house. Last Saturday, I had a solar energy consultant from a local solar firm come to my house in the SF Bay Area, to whom I had previously provided my electric bills, conduct a site visit and give me an estimate for a solar installation. My house has excellent south/southwest orientation with nothing in the way that casts any shade. The house itself is a 3 bedroom 3 bath ranch, approximately 1700 sq. ft. The house uses gas for heat and hot water. Electricity is used for all appliances including the range. We don't need or have air conditioning. The estimated cost of installing solar panels (the final cost after federal and CA state credits are applied) is approximately 10,000.00. My electric bills are not high (for the 12 month period beginning in April 2007 through the most recent bill ending April 2008), the lowest monthly bill was $32.01, the highest monthly bill was $42.08.

Even though he would like to sell me the solar panels, the solar energy consultant made it clear that it would take it would take a very long time for me to recoup the installation costs. In part this is because my electric use is so low. He noted that were I to switch from a gas water heater to an on-demand tankless water heater, the costs might be recovered more quickly. Still, he noted, it would take a long time to recoup the initial installation costs.

The other reason is that PG & G ( Pacific Gas and Electric Company), my provider does not pay its customers for the excess electricity produced. It more electricity is produced than is used, then the customer has a zero balance, but the customer never receives a credit if more electricity is produced that consumed.

So while my spouse and I are still considering installing solar, if we decide to do so, it will be for environmental reasons not economic ones.

[houstonmacbro]

The other reason is that PG & G ( Pacific Gas and Electric Company), my provider does not pay its customers for the excess electricity produced. It more electricity is produced than is used, then the customer has a zero balance, but the customer never receives a credit if more electricity is produced that consumed.

So while my spouse and I are still considering installing solar, if we decide to do so, it will be for environmental reasons not economic ones.

So lemme get this straight... the PG&G will not give you a credit for the electricity that you produce, but they will sell what you produce to someone else (and make a profit, since they didn't have to produce it).

That doesn't sound proper.

[millennica]

So lemme get this straight... the PG&G will not give you a credit for the electricity that you produce, but they will sell what you produce to someone else (and make a profit, since they didn't have to produce it).

That doesn't sound proper.

That's right. Proper or not, that's what happens. P G & E (I made a typing mistake in my first email message) does not give the consumer a credit for the electricity s/he produces and apparently makes a profit on selling it to another consumer. It may not seem acceptable, but that's what P G & E does. I even inquired if I might give the excess electricity produced to someone else. I also asked if there was any program whereby the excess electricity could be banked and awarded to needy consumers, sort of like a sick day bank that some employers have. But the answer was "no". The excess electricity consumers produce is returned to P G & E to do with what they like, which is probably sell and profit from it. And so it goes.

[houstonmacbro]

That's right. Proper or not, that's what happens. P G & E (I made a typing mistake in my first email message) does not give the consumer a credit for the electricity s/he produces and apparently makes a profit on selling it to another consumer. It may not seem acceptable, but that's what P G & E does. I even inquired if I might give the excess electricity produced to someone else. I also asked if there was any program whereby the excess electricity could be banked and awarded to needy consumers, sort of like a sick day bank that some employers have. But the answer was "no". The excess electricity consumers produce is returned to P G & E to do with what they like, which is probably sell and profit from it. And so it goes.

Wow ... well, like you said you were doing it for environmental purposes. But still ... if a lot of people are sending excess energy to them, they could be racking up.

[Pumapayam]

$130 is creeping so close now.

We are not even to the point were we are running low on crude. Sure we are passed the peak, but we are still pumping out as much as we were 10 years ago. This is getting stupid.

[Vertigo58]

$130 is creeping so close now.

We are not even to the point were we are running low on crude. Sure we are passed the peak, but we are still pumping out as much as we were 10 years ago. This is getting stupid.

At this rate we wont even be able to cut the grass. Some would love that idea but seriously. I am afraid to spill even the slightest drop of gas as now it seems like such a precious item.

Santo cielo!

[houstonmacbro]

At this rate we wont even be able to cut the grass. Some would love that idea but seriously. I am afraid to spill even the slightest drop of gas as now it seems like such a precious item.

Santo cielo!

Personally...? I could forgo cutting grass. I kinda like the ragged look but don't know if it's acceptable in my neigborhood.

[20thStDad]

Sure you can. My mower doesn't have a motor, it's the old fashioned reel type. Works great, nice and quiet, no exhaust, and no gas costs.

[Vertigo58]

Personally...? I could forgo cutting grass. I kinda like the ragged look but don't know if it's acceptable in my neigborhood.

I reel at the idea of using a manual grass mower (like going back to the dark ages) but some people use them?!

Now that would require some real patience. May be a good idea if you have a small yard like in a courtyard situation, only.

This may guy seem silly but we will have to get more creative to save fuel. (must be a wig, whats up)

[CDeb]

I've heard that the manual mowers are hell if you have a thick St. Augustine lawn.

I'm not so concerned about using gasoline in my mower. My lot isn't huge so it takes me a couple of months to go through a gallon. Not exactly a high cost area for me.