cloud713

Designed another deck park and didn't really know where to put it except this thread, even though the location is off. It's for 59 from Rusk at the north end of GRB CC, possibly extending as far north as Commerce St, but at first would only extend to Congress/the north side of MMP (though this is fantasy so I guess might as well go all out, no money taken into consideration). The park would also extend east between Texas and Preston, over to Bastrop, where the current massive surface parking lots are. Those lots would be consolidated into two garages, one next to MMP and one next to DS. The park would not only help with spurring development in that area, but more importantly provide a crucial link between downtown and eado/the east end. It would also serve as a great spot to host events for sports game days, right in between MMP and Dynamo Stadium. I know DiscoGreen can host game day events, but it's not as close to MMP. Then there will be the eado promenade south of DS for soccer game day events, but a large park over 59 could be beneficial for the other 2 reasons I mentioned. A great connector between two up and coming destinations, and lots of space around it for potential development.. 5 basically full blocks around the perimeter that are either vacant or could easily become vacant by tearing down a couple run down warehouses currently on them. Then there are 3 half blocks that could have narrow Hess Garage Residential Tower-esque highrises built on them/lining the park. So I see the potential for 8 new developments, not counting the condo tower, apartment building, hotel, and restaurant/bar developments I have included with/around the park (i figured retail in the DS parking garage could possibly work too, lining the two sides that face the park). That's a lot of potential prime development and could completely revitalize that area.

thank you! thats pretty much what i was going for. and ive always liked the idea of having large grassy balcony/"backyard" setbacks on buildings. i figured it could help entice some suburbanites into living a more urban lifestyle if they are still able to have a place for their dog or kids to run around (nothing insanely huge, but like 500 sq feet of outdoor green space, maybe 1000 sq ft for the larger/more expensive units).

Cool, thanks. I would assume this one will be atop a garage like Hackett..

How many sq feet are the current Aandarko towers?

that would certainly be neat. i just have always liked Japanese Gardens and the ambiance of them. and Koi Ponds are always neat. heh.. but im down for something gifted from a sister city incorporated into the deck park.

woah.. that looks sharp. if only... i just realized these towers were all subconsciously progressions of the previous tower.well i sketched up a large park spanning a newly trenched portion of 59 between downtown and eado, and across the large black asphalt surface parking lots, that are multiple blocks each, between Minute Maid and the north end of Dynamo Stadium. i didnt really know what to do with it, but it has a new high rise (15 stories [do you count the roof top as a floor if its utilized?]), two mid rises (one 9 and one 7 stories, if you count the rooftop decks), and a low rise (4 stories) as part of the development (i would probably increase the height of the oval highrise, and make the 9 story midrise maybe 12 or so stories), that i figured were relevant to this thread. the designs arent anything ground breaking, but they go with my recent theme of green roofs, and i especially like the oval high rise. all the current parking from the properties that the parks would be replacing are consolidated into two parking garages, one next to Minute Maid (with sky bridges for direct access from the garage to the upper decks of the stadium), and one on the southeast corner of the 4 block plot, just north of Dynamo Stadium. there would be three 2-story penthouses in the oval condo highrise, all with their own grassy terrace/"backyard", and the top penthouse would have a green rooftop deck as well. the penthouse units would face south for views of downtown/museum district/TMC skylines, while the rest of the standard/lower units would face east overlooking the deck park (those balconies would be tucked into the side of the facade for a sleek looking exterior). the 8/9 story midrise would likely be apartments, and have some luxury 2 story units on the upper levels with their own green "backyards" (the top floor having a second green area on the roof), overlooking the deck park/facing towards downtown. the 6/7 story midrise would be the same, apartments again, (or even a hotel i suppose? but if its a hotel the roofs would be all hotel guest access, with gardens and amenities like the pool area, ect, not cordoned off to particular rooms like the apartment building. the 4 story low rise would just be either retail with really high ceilings, or two story restaurants with a balcony overlooking the largest portion of park space. and then a 2 story bar/club above the restaurant (above the kitchen likely so noise isnt an issue) with a large outdoor patio (with umbrellas in the renderings, lol), where you can hang out on nice days/nights, be able to smoke, possibly have a place to toss horse shoes or something. there could also be the option to put an office tower on top of the new garage next to Dynamo Stadium..

sweet! finally someone likes my TopGolf idea. heh.. yeah ill admit the netting/poles wont be the most attractive thing ever (they can build up a facade to hide the "clubhouse" behind if they felt it needed to be hidden), but its on the roof of an already not so attractive cruise ship looking convention center (lol), on the side of a highway. they put these things on the sides of highways all the time, and they are normally next to low lying developments/residential neighborhoods making the poles/nets some of the tallest/most obvious things around. i dont think it would look that bad in downtown compared to out on i10, or any of the other locations.exactly.. i think TopGolf would be a huge hit with certain crowds of convention goers, and downtown employees during long breaks/lunches, or after work to keep them around/downtown more active beyond the standard 9-5. and it would definitely be unique. pretty much every other TopGolf i know of is in a suburban setting.. Edit: here are my sketches for utilizing a couple of the potential larger green roofs in downtown, for those who haven't seen them elsewhere. GRB CC GreenStreet (I didn't get detailed with park amenities for this one besides the obvious miniature golf. I kind of wish I did before my friends daughter got ahold of it.. Ah well. I would of also put an outdoor patio wherever SkyBar was supposed to have theirs, for outdoor dining/entertainment) Then I was going to draw something up for Houston Pavilions but ended up coming back to a miniature moody gardens structure with a waterfall cascading down the side of the building, to promote the full scale moody gardens out in Galveston, for people who normally might not venture out there/realize it's something they want to do. But even I'll admit that idea is a little far out there.. Lol. Grdens and smaller park space or outdoor patio/dining areas could be implemented on a number of other roofs around downtown though (structures that occupy single blocks)

well, yeah.. thats why there would be an initiative/incentives program for buildings to convert existing rooftops to green rooftops. and while i partly agree.. the environmentalist in me says otherwise. im all about being environmentally friendly, as well as lowering costs (they go hand in hand really.. that electricity has to come from somewhere). why cant we do both? and like i pointed out, the city is spending over a billion to rebuild the sewage/drainage infrastructure because its insufficient. green rooftops would reduce the amount of storm water run off that ends up in the drainage system, reducing the amount of flooding in the city. i pretty sure greening millions of square feet in rooftops doesnt cost over a billion dollars, but even if it did (and we built enough green roofs so that it had the same impact on the drainage system vs just expanding capacity) cost the same as the drainage system, at least the green roofs would be something that we can see and get a physical benefit out of all year round (vs just benefiting from the expanded drainage system whenever big storms come through), and improve the quality of life for the residents. rebuilding the drainage system is great/probably needed to prevent the city from flooding so bad during the next major storm, but i think its obvious which of the two provides the most benefits to the residents. yeah a sports complex on the roof of GRB would be a novelty in Houston for the next couple decades (or however long it takes to build downtown/the inner city out), but you dont think it would be a successful novelty? how many sports complexes are there currently in the inner city? i did a search for inner city soccer fields and found only a few inside the 610 loop. McGovern Park, Mason Park, Moody Park, an indoor one near Memorial Park, Hackett Athletic Field, and what i assume is an intramural field for UH. thats not many options for inner city residents to play large field sports like soccer, football, or baseball (though they do have a BB field at Emancipation Park). no where near midtown, downtown, eado, or the 4th ward. why not have one centralized between all of those areas and place it in downtown? its no coincidence that all of the areas i just mentioned that lack sports complexes/other amenities are not family friendly, and are dominated by the mid 20s/30s crowd. maybe if we were able to bring some of these aforementioned amenities to the inner city we could work on making it more family friendly and a more attractive place to live. exactly.. the residential initiative was an out of the park success. time will tell if/how the retail district materializes, but i think with the right attitude and people behind it, a green rooftop initiative could be a great success in Houston as well, and show the world that were not that dirty gritty over polluted city theyve hear bad things about.. but that this is Houston turning over a new leaf, and it could be our chance to change peoples opinions.

well sure.. in the picture i linked in the first post, the garden on the roof of the City Hall (the "originator" of the Green Roof renaissance in Chicago) building is 20,000 sq feet. thats a pretty good sized garden. imagine a park (or public sports complex/TopGolf) on the roof of GRB. the GRBs footprint is like 15 acres (not counting the new 4 block expansion planned sometime during the next decade). the TopGolf in spring is being build on 10.5 acres, and the TopGolf on i10 (was the largest in Texas at the time it was announced) sits on 12 acres. and both of those figures are including space for a surface parking lot which takes up around half of the development. meaning a TopGolf could easily fit on one half of the GRB, while a public sports complex or something of the likes goes on the other half. for comparison, Discovery Green is 12 acres, so the roof of the current GRB is even more space than DG. you may be right.. i might be getting carried off into fantasy land, but i dont see any reason why we couldnt have gardens, parks, and entertainment facilities on the roofs of flat topped buildings in urban Houston.. (here is a soccer field on the roof of a high rise in Tokyo, so roof top parks/sports complexes are definitely feasible..) and the Chicago City Hall gardens.. a few other examples of Green Rooftops.. http://grandviewoutdoor.com/general/10-stunning-rooftop-garden-designs/

lol, sorry HH.. im surprised no one likes my TopGolf on the roof of GRB idea. even though im 25 years old, i would gladly go play some miniature golf on the roof of GreenStreet. haha and yes Houston19514, many of the green roofs are accessible as far as im aware (though maybe not all of them necessarily to the public). but think about it.. cheaper A/C costs, less water in the storm drains (though thats more a city issue, not something that has much advantages for the building itself), more space for amenities, and in some cases you can even charge additional rent for the roof top space.

first off, dont get too excited.. this is all just a fantasy. but its an idea for what could (in my own little world) be next after the downtown retail initiative/incentives program ends later this decade. i made a post in the downtown forum that talked a lot about this and figured i would just copy/paste it into a new thread since it was slightly off topic, but i thought it made a lot of sense. im not talking just putting grass on an inaccessible rooftop. im talking putting (depending on the roof sizes, venues would be placed accordingly) full fledged gardens, parks, public sports complexes, TopGolf, miniature golf, outdoor entertainment areas/patios/bars, ect.. things that not only will help the city, but also improve the lives of the residents. here are a couple articles about Chicagos rooftop renaissance.. http://greeningthecity.wordpress.com/chicagos-green-renaissance/ "Green Roofs “We do this not because it’s fashionable, but because it makes sense. It improves public health; it beautifies the city; it enhances the quality of life; it saves money; and it leaves a legacy for future generations.” Mayor Richard Daley Perhaps the most famous of Daley’s greening initiatives are Chicago’s green roofs. Leading the way with an award-winning green roof on their City Hall, Daley’s tough green roof incentives and requirements have made Chicago the North American leader for green roof implementation for four years running (Green Roofs for Healthy Cities). Known for their ability to reduce stormwater runoff and reduce the urban heat island effect, green roofs have also proven to be perhaps the most symbolic of all Daley’s initiatives. Other cities wishing to implement green initiatives have admired Daley’s use of green roofs as a symbolic figurehead for his other greening initiatives, and is perhaps a good lesson in public perception. Green roofs are sexy and innovative, and easily capture the public imagination. The most famous green roof in Chicago may not even be recognized as one- Millennium Park." (in that case, i guess Discovery Green is a "green roof", so we are already on our way to following in Chicagos footsteps) "The 20,000 square foot garden atop Chicago’s City Hall was completed in 2001 as a green design experiment— namely to test the heating and cooling benefits plus the runoff absorption rates of green roofs in urban areas. Special soils were created using lightweight soil mixture guidelines that were researched and developed in Germany. Skylights were reinforced to support up to 60 pounds per square foot, and a massive waterproofing layer was added to the century-old roof. Plants and grasses were selected for their ability to thrive in abundant sunlight and high wind, the majority being prairie plants native to the region. Today, the City Hall’s grass and plants are able to absorb 75% of an inch of rain before storm water begins running into the city’s sewers. The roof is seven degrees cooler on average than neighboring roofs and as much as 30 degrees cooler in the summer, adding further support to research that shows the massive cooling effects of healthy lawns. Chicago now has 7 million square feet of green roofs completed or underway." thats from an old blog/article in 2011 i believe, so one could imagine Chicago has added a bit more green roof space since then. in a city that is currently spending billions to expand/rebuild the drainage system (and has an average summer temperature high in the 90s, sometimes reaching into the 100* range), i would say green roofs would make a lot of sense for us here in Houston..

woah. i never realized Piano designed the Shard.. very cool! you are right, it doesnt necessarily mean a single building. but considering the costs of other supertalls, if its really a 2 billion dollar development, there would likely be a supertall anchor building (or i dont think its too far out of the question at least). we are naming insanely expensive buildings with very technical designs (Burj Khalifa, The Shard, WTC [thats so expensive more because of the extreme over engineering involved in the buildings and security]) that are some of the most expensive buildings in the world.. Williams Tower recently sold for 412 million. and its 901'.. like someone else mentioned, we could easily get a 1000 footer, along with something in the 200 meter range, or even more (or taller) towers.. it just depends on how large the mixed use component is at the base of the tower and what else is incorporated into the development. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_buildings_in_the_world

Heh, you and me both.. If I ever become rich I'm investing in Houston... Added in the Japanese Garden and Koi Pond, but then figured that part of the park is too crowded with all those amenities, so the dog park could be shifted north/right across the path, though I was purposely keeping those two fields between the dog park and the middle lake open for stuff like soccer, tossing a football of frisbee, or bocce, flying kites, sprawling out and catching some rays.. But maybe barking dogs don't go with the serenity of a Japanese garden, so the dog park would be better off moving across the path to the north/right. I guess one and a half open segments of park isn't bad.

ha, most of my post was rambling.. for sure, too early to speculate. i just thought it was interesting that the Brickell developer matched the criteria.

heh, maybe. im right there with you though. always thought it would be a cool idea to connect those two parts of town, especially after all the developments getting announced on the east side of 610 over the last few years.. you would probably have to eliminate all the overpass on-ramps along side/onto 610 between Westheimer and San Felipe though for a deck park. unless you had gaping holes in a couple portions of the side of the park, which i guess you could figure out a way to engineer. i was thinking if retaining both exits was important, they could pull a Westpark/Beltway style interchange with the underground underpasses that loop around/back up to the surface streets. otherwise you would have to exit at Westheimer for San Felipe going north, and San Felipe for Westheimer going south. and i would eliminate the northern u-turn lane at Westheimer, and southern u-turn lane at San Felipe and make all traffic going around the perimeter of the park have to go through the stop lights for pedestrian safety. also probably lower the speed limit of that portion of the feeder roads to 35 or something to make it safer for pedestrians who are crossing in between Westheimer and San Felipe (there would be new push button/flashing yellow cross walks installed at the points where my paths are laid out connecting developments on either side of the park). i dont think slower speed limits would be much of an issue. its not like many people are able to go 45, or w/e the speed is on the feeder roads in those areas, anyways.. what did you think of the fantasy deck park? i know water is heavy, but i figured they could have really shallow lakes. Phoenix was able to put a lake on their deck park (though the lake may be off to the side of the structure), in a Japanese Garden they have above the highway. damn. i knew i was forgetting something in my park.. meant to include a little garden area (maybe even with a koi pond?). i would probably have that between the dog park and the restaurant closest to Westheimer (i was trying to keep a few portions open space for running around/field games and stuff). i figured the kids stuff like the splash pad and playground can go closest to the amphitheater since it could be noisy on that side of the park during performances, and kids dont really mind noise (they tend to make plenty of it when they are playing, so i figured those facilities well next to each other). and dogs dont care for loud noises, so i figured that made more sense on the side furthest away from the amphitheater. i tried to plan it out appropriately.

i dont think its oil money.. the Burj Khalifa was 1.5 billion dollars to build, at 2,717 feet tall and 3.3 million square feet (granted the UAE doesnt have the same codes and regulations as the US, so im sure it was cheaper to build there). now dont get me wrong, the skyscraper enthusiast in me is all for a 3,000 foot tower in Houston to take the title of worlds tallest building, but the realist in me says this would likely be a very large mixed use project (possibly with an office component anchored by a large foreign energy company). think GreenStreet or CityCentre on steroids. when i was thinking of potential large scale mixed use developments that could possibly be comparable in size (or at least give an idea of the scale of a 2 billion dollar project), i stumbled across this... it could be a long shot, but i was doing research into the cost of the huge Brickell City Center complex in Miami (a 1+ billion dollar development) and found that, low and behold, the investor behind the project was foreign.. now like i said, its a long shot. i realize there are lots of foreign companies in the world, but this one is known for building these huge mixed use developments in cities all across the world, and Houston isnt one of them (yet). and the Brickell City Center just so happens to be going through with an EIGHTY story building, the new tallest in Miami. sounds like a possibility to me.. Houston is booming, and if this company has taken notice (the Chinese seem to love the Rockets, so they probably know about Houston..), they likely see an incentive to bring their successful business model to our city for a new development. its Swire Properties/Swire Pacific Holdings Ltd, out of China/Hong Kong.. could this be our mystery investor? "About Swire Properties Inc For more than 40 years, Swire Properties has built projects that have transformed neighborhoods and city centers throughout the world into vibrant places where people live, work and play. Closer to home, we are proud of a 30-year successful track record in Miami demonstrated by our development of Brickell Key. Swire continues to confirm our confidence in Miami with development of Brickell City Centre. A global company, Swire Properties Inc is the U.S.real estate subsidiary of the publicly listed Swire Pacific Holdings Ltd based in Hong Kong. Whether in Hong Kong, China or Miami, our ability to develop world-class mixed-use projects creates destinations and builds value for the communities around them." http://brickellcitycentreconnect.com/project-description/ now where could a development of this magnitude possibly go? (Brickell City Center looks like it takes up at least 7 blocks) the Post Office site is an obvious choice, given the size of the property. other than that it looks like it would either have to go around the west/north sides of the baseball stadium, or on the southeast corner of downtown.

That would be HUGE. BG Group Place sold for like 460 million.

really..? instead of criticizing why dont you come up with some better ideas. is this the "wasted subsidy" you speak of? really? they put grass on top of a roof and called it a day. it doesnt even look like there is access to the roof. i can see why Idahoans would consider it wasted subsidies.. sure it reduces 75% of the storm water run off, and cools the building down, but they arent getting anything else out of it.. the space isnt being utilized for the public, so they see no benefit. what i was proposing goes way beyond a "grass roof". im talking rooftop gardens for people to relax and enjoy nature, without ever leaving the urban environment; rooftop parks to stretch your legs (or your dogs); and rooftop entertainment facilities like TopGolf or putt putt, sports complexes, outdoor bars and patios, ect.

Got bored so I sketched out a deck park above 610 between Westheimer and San Felipe. The park would be 9.7 acres (figuring the highway is 160 ft wide and the park half a mile long), which is about twice the size of Klyde Warren in Dallas. There would be a few bars/restaurants/concession stands, a sports equipment rental booth, a concert stage/amphitheater, and other typical high end park amenities like a splash pad, a playground, and a dog park.

Yeah, or the 1.2 billion dollar redevelopment of Uptown Park. Maybe they want a supertall to anchor the development?

any idea what/who the two red under contract plots along San Felipe are for (Parcels A and D)? hopefully (i would imagine) they will be highrises. probably one a hotel, like that W that was rendered (though im sure it wont be the same rendering/may not even be a W), and another office tower. im hoping they wont be more mid-rises or townhouses, lol.

you are correct. again, that rendering was for the old 2008 Deyaar project (and i agree Lockmat, im pretty sure there was another rendering floating around with two towers (one being a hotel, the other being office) connected by a skybridge). one has to wonder where this potential 900+ footer would go. there is the new AmReit plot at San Felipe and Post Oak that had a very tall tower shown in its conceptual renderings. i hope its not too close to Williams Tower, like the Deyaar tower would of been. it would be nice to have one spaced out on the north side to offset the Uptown skyline.

here are a couple articles about Chicagos rooftop renaissance.. http://greeningthecity.wordpress.com/chicagos-green-renaissance/ "Green Roofs “We do this not because it’s fashionable, but because it makes sense. It improves public health; it beautifies the city; it enhances the quality of life; it saves money; and it leaves a legacy for future generations.” Mayor Richard Daley Perhaps the most famous of Daley’s greening initiatives are Chicago’s green roofs. Leading the way with an award-winning green roof on their City Hall, Daley’s tough green roof incentives and requirements have made Chicago the North American leader for green roof implementation for four years running (Green Roofs for Healthy Cities). Known for their ability to reduce stormwater runoff and reduce the urban heat island effect, green roofs have also proven to be perhaps the most symbolic of all Daley’s initiatives. Other cities wishing to implement green initiatives have admired Daley’s use of green roofs as a symbolic figurehead for his other greening initiatives, and is perhaps a good lesson in public perception. Green roofs are sexy and innovative, and easily capture the public imagination. The most famous green roof in Chicago may not even be recognized as one- Millennium Park." in that case, i guess Discovery Green is a "green roof", so we are already on our way to following in Chicagos footsteps. "The 20,000 square foot garden atop Chicago’s City Hall was completed in 2001 as a green design experiment— namely to test the heating and cooling benefits plus the runoff absorption rates of green roofs in urban areas. Special soils were created using lightweight soil mixture guidelines that were researched and developed in Germany. Skylights were reinforced to support up to 60 pounds per square foot, and a massive waterproofing layer was added to the century-old roof. Plants and grasses were selected for their ability to thrive in abundant sunlight and high wind, the majority being prairie plants native to the region. Today, the City Hall’s grass and plants are able to absorb 75% of an inch of rain before storm water begins running into the city’s sewers. The roof is seven degrees cooler on average than neighboring roofs and as much as 30 degrees cooler in the summer, adding further support to research that shows the massive cooling effects of healthy lawns. Chicago now has 7 million square feet of green roofs completed or underway." thats from an old blog/article in 2011 i believe, so one could imagine Chicago has added a bit more green roof space since then. in a city that is currently spending billions to expand/rebuild the drainage system (and has an average summer temperature high in the 90s, sometimes reaching into the 100* range), i would say green roofs would make a lot of sense for us here in Houston..

agreed.. thats part of why my repurposing of the George R Brown roof includes a public sports complex. downtown needs more family friendly amenities. the closest sports complex i can find to downtown (besides the hobo basketball court downtown) is at Emancipation Park, and the baseball field there is (at least according to Google Earth, i know its getting renovated) in terrible condition, and the 2 tennis courts probably arent much better. someone mentioned something about sports fields near the bayou? im not sure where those are at or what amenities are there, but if your looking to play Football or Soccer anywhere near downtown it would appear you are SOL. and i think a sports complex on the roof of GRB would be much more popular than Emancipation Park with not only the downtown residents since its right down the new light rail, but also with people from all over the inner city. how cool would it be to play sports on the roof of GRB, in an urban environment, overlooking the downtown skyline? its sure to be popular. and the TopGolf is an obvious success waiting to happen.. those things do insanely well in the suburbs. imagine how well one would do in an urban format. then in my GreenStreet sketch i had a residential/more family oriented tower above the garage, with a private park on the other half of the garage, and then public park space for GS visitors/downtown residents above the old books-a-million whole side of that block, and possibly another small private park space above Forever XXI for the hotel guests. then something like putt putt golf for the kids/families, above Lucky Strike. and finally open that outdoor rooftop patio space at the old SkyBar for luncheons and a cool night time hang out, ect. yeah the observation deck is cool, but i feel not enough people know about it. Discovery Green is awesome, needs a better way to advertise upcoming events than just their website. then of course you have the theater district, restaurants, sports, church on sundays, or even hospital visits (lol). and the Nau will sort of be a museum, though i believe the official designation is "heritage/cultural center"

woah.. this is an exciting revelation! hopefully it pans out/we hear more about this sooner than later.