East End/EaDo Real Estate

[ToolMan]

I'm wondering if these townhomes will like like the ones I see in Hyde Park area in 25 years - not very attarctive.

[dbigtex56]

People who talk the talk about creative, innovative architecture can come down with a case of cold feet when it's time to actually start putting their own money into it. Suddenly qualms arise about resale value - suppose there's not a resale market for this year's bold new design? When it's time to sell, can buyers who value unusual design be found? Will it hold its value?

The fear is that what seems like striking design this year might be regarded as the architectural equivalent of the Edsel next year. Even though Perry Homes (and their analogues) generally are ugly as sin, they come with the assurance that thousands of people have already supported bland design. This cornball cut-rate version of Disneyworld's Main Street America might not be what people really want, but at least it's a safe investment.

[bachanon]

interesting, thoughtful design is rare, with the exception of hiring one's own architect. the majority of "custom" homes, townhomes and even historic homes (many are old school cookie cutter homes) are regurgitated builder's bilge. one must tolerate this blandness and focus on location, finances, number of rooms needed and convenience. to single out townhomes is narrow minded at best.

I single out townhomes because design is one thing that's easy to control when making a purchase. Don't call my question narrow-minded because I'm focusing on a particular subject. I could talk all day about hideous strip centers, etc., if you want to go there.

I get that there are more concerns than design when purchasing a home. You've got to consider price, location, amenities, all that crap. But good design is not as hard to find as you indicate. If you say someone wants a view, and that's why they buy a townhome, say, in the parking lot of the old Mercado del Sol, then fine. But let's generously assume that 10% of these townhomes have a great view. There are still 90% of them that don't, and I do think that if you choose to purchase one of these, you've got terrible taste in architecture. Or at best, you just don't care about it that much.

maybe my idea of good design is very narrow. i loathe most new construction. i do not consider townhomes replicated a thousand times to be good design, simply profitable. new million dollar homes in the woodlands generally make me ill, for instance. you walk in and they have the same crappy bannister that a 100k perry townhome has. the same black granite counter tops, the same trim, the same, the same , the same, the same. i didn't mean to be critical of your views.

[Guest danax]

The fear is that what seems like striking design this year might be regarded as the architectural equivalent of the Edsel next year.

Good point, but I don't think pleasing design has to mean radical styling, just something that makes you go, "Ah, yes. Nice". But you're right that it's all about pleasing the most people, which somehow always seems to translate into bland.

Speaking of cookie-cutter townhouses, Centex is going to get into the Houston inner-loop market in the Warehouse District and Upper Kirby as a way to diversify.

It might be that we'll be seeing more concentration on infill-type projects due to higher gas prices and less demand from first-time homebuyers with shaky credit, who tend to buy in the burbs, due to higher interest rates and more stringent mortgage lending guidelines.

[TheNiche]

Speaking of cookie-cutter townhouses, Centex is going to get into the Houston inner-loop market in the Warehouse District and Upper Kirby as a way to diversify.

It might be that we'll be seeing more concentration on infill-type projects due to higher gas prices and less demand from first-time homebuyers with shaky credit, who tend to buy in the burbs, due to higher interest rates and more stringent mortgage lending guidelines.

I don't know what to make of Centex. If you look at their website, Houston offerings are typically <$200k and >$120k. I'm not expecting a luxury product...then again, they just had a shakeup in their management, and a lot of things are expected to change within their organization. What's on the ground today may not be representative of what'll be put there in the future.

We'll see...

[TAK]

i can't afford to build what i would like. i can afford a townhome... (or in my case, a little house in a less desired neighborhood.)

townhomes are meant to provide an affordable 'upscale' or 'mid-scale' alternative for living in the city. if you don't want an apartment or and can't afford $500k for something 'architected' you go with something close.

i've always wondered how difficult it would be to add a little bit of architecture to all of the townhouses going up. currently, they're mostly stucco boxes.

i'll admit i know little about architecture. i just know when i like something. i'm simple.

[jdbaker]

I am very curious why people with an obvious interest in architecture would even consider buying a townhome. While there are certainly some that employ interesting and thoughtful design, the vast majority them are just horrific. They're almost anti-design!

I think the same could be said for most free standing homes in Houston. Clearly, there are poorly designed townhomes in Houston, but this has nothing to do with the fact that they're attached residential housing. In cities where land is expensive and/or scarce, you'll find entire neighborhoods of architecturally stunning townhomes. I've attached a photo of my old townhome in home in DC so that you can see what I'm talking about.

[rps324]

^^^Yes those are great, but they are not Houston townhomes. You know that is not what Eastwood is referring to.

[dalparadise]

Nor is there anything "architecturally stunning" about that photo.

[jdbaker]

Nor is there anything "architecturally stunning" about that photo.

Fair enough, but I think we can agree that these are not "anti-design". As rps correctly pointed out, Houston townhomes are entirely different creatures, and I can certainly understand why many are turned off by much of Houston's recent townhome boom. Many of them are bland, repetitive, and poorly designed (e.g. not facing the street). The only point that I was trying to make is that it doesn't have to be this way. You can build nice townhomes, and they don't have to look like Perry's, Tin-Cans, or even Federalist Row Houses.

[TheNiche]

Fair enough, but I think we can agree that these are not "anti-design". As rps correctly pointed out, Houston townhomes are entirely different creatures, and I can certainly understand why many are turned off by much of Houston's recent townhome boom. Many of them are bland, repetitive, and poorly designed (e.g. not facing the street). The only point that I was trying to make is that it doesn't have to be this way. You can build nice townhomes, and they don't have to look like Perry's, Tin-Cans, or even Federalist Row Houses.

The only thing that even remotely strikes me as being "anti-design" is a minimalist aesthetic...but that in and of itself is a form of design.

A more appropriate label would be "designless". Its not that anybody intends for basic townhomes to be so bland, so much as it is that good design costs money...and there are many people that simply can't afford it along with all the other priorities that they want in a home. If you don't like it, well that's fine, but just know that if good design was required of all new townhomes, we wouldn't have nearly as vibrant a downtown-area scene because many people would be priced out of the market.

[bachanon]

well said.

[ricco67]

let us not forget of the times there are times when SOME of us on here complain on the design of some buildings because they are "dated" or are so "70's" or whatever inspite of the fact that they were highly lauded at the time of completion as "futuristic" or "distinguished".

Being in style today, doesn't mean you will be stylish tomorrow.

Look at some of the floor plans of some of the older homes and see how they were gutted. Today's homes are being outfitted with Home theater or "home office" space. That may or may not be "necessary" in the future.

How many of us look back at our hairstyles or clothing and say, "What the hell was I thinking?"

[musicman]

Fair enough, but I think we can agree that these are not "anti-design". As rps correctly pointed out, Houston townhomes are entirely different creatures, and I can certainly understand why many are turned off by much of Houston's recent townhome boom. Many of them are bland, repetitive, and poorly designed (e.g. not facing the street). The only point that I was trying to make is that it doesn't have to be this way. You can build nice townhomes, and they don't have to look like Perry's, Tin-Cans, or even Federalist Row Houses.

But you can say the same thing about many of the new homes that are being built. things just look cheap to me. at the minimum i like finished windows. it is just rare to find that. i also hate how most new houses have a toilet directly next to the tub. just looks tacky.

[Guest Sebastian De La Ghetto]

I looked in this area last year, and was also surprised to see so many generic looking, all hardiplank exterior Pery homes selling like hotcakes. I opted to buy a mckinney villa off of mckinney instead. They are a mediteraneanish design, i think. never heard of the builder before (northgate) but its worked out well so far. now if only they would build a tunnel through the GRB so i can ride my bike straight to work.

[bachanon]

welcome to the forum SDLG.

[TheNiche]

I looked in this area last year, and was also surprised to see so many generic looking, all hardiplank exterior Pery homes selling like hotcakes. I opted to buy a mckinney villa off of mckinney instead. They are a mediteraneanish design, i think. never heard of the builder before (northgate) but its worked out well so far. now if only they would build a tunnel through the GRB so i can ride my bike straight to work.

Welcome to HAIF, Sebastian.

I think that at one point early on, METRO was considering tunneling the East/SouthEast lines under the GRB as a subway service. Didn't work out too well (a very short-lived and little-discussed proposal), so Capitol St. seems to be pretty well locked in as the favorite now.

[stolitx]

Anyone going?

I'm going to try. Details if you hadn't heard yet -

Monday, 9/25

Milby HS Auditorium

1601 Broadway

7:00

[firstimehomebuyer]

I'm looking to possibly purchase a townhome on Mckinney ave. called Mckinney villas, but the only thing stopping me is the railroad right behind the property! Can anyone tell me how often this train runs, if it only runs during the day or throughout the night, can you hear the trains despite being indoors....any information will definitely help me decide!! I know from reading this forum, a couple of people have mentioned that they live in the Mckinney villas....any regrets?

[Guest danax]

I live near a different East End train and it runs 24/7, with frequency varying depending on the freight loads. Typically it's every couple of hours or so.

They have to blow by law at least 5 times at each intersection, gate or no gate. They can be heard indoors for miles. I live 6 houses from the tracks and it goes unnoticed usually ,although people I've been talking to on the phone can hear it. I do sleep with foam earplugs and a fan blowing as a noise cancelling device and I never wake up. Your brain sort of adjusts. A horn honking outside my house or the thundering la bamba music is much more disturbing.

If I were looking to buy and could afford to, I would hunt for a non-train affected area mainly for improved resale potential.

[TheNiche]

I'm looking to possibly purchase a townhome on Mckinney ave. called Mckinney villas, but the only thing stopping me is the railroad right behind the property! Can anyone tell me how often this train runs, if it only runs during the day or throughout the night, can you hear the trains despite being indoors....any information will definitely help me decide!! I know from reading this forum, a couple of people have mentioned that they live in the Mckinney villas....any regrets?

I've heard from folks that live in Alexan Lofts, further up the line, that the train does indeed run at all times of the day and night. That's the bad news.

The good news: you get used to it.

[GREASER]

yes you do get used to it and it doesnt really bother you at all

[foxmulder]

yes you do get used to it and it doesnt really bother you at all

I spent the night at my GF parent's house and woke up contiunously to the train.. She was sound asleep

[ricco67]

yes you do get used to it and it doesnt really bother you at all

I spent the night at my GF parent's house and woke up contiunously to the train.. She was sound asleep

Then there you go!

[GREASER]

I have noticed a big demographics change at the grocery store over the last 6 months or so...is it my imagination?? I have also heard a few derogatory remarks at the store aimed at hispanics....just outright rude and ignorant remarks. Any one notice this?

[TheNiche]

I have noticed a big demographics change at the grocery store over the last 6 months or so...is it my imagination?? I have also heard a few derogatory remarks at the store aimed at hispanics....just outright rude and ignorant remarks. Any one notice this?

It is hard to quantify the rate of change between censuses, but I know that things are starting to shift, and it seems like the shifts are accelerating. I know that a lot of it is spillover from people that have been priced out of Montrose and the Heights, and I envision that the next few years will leave the East End looking like a nacent artists' colony before things start yuppifying in earnest.

I look forward to the 2010 Census.

[Original Timmy Chan's]

It is hard to quantify the rate of change between censuses, but I know that things are starting to shift, and it seems like the shifts are accelerating. I know that a lot of it is spillover from people that have been priced out of Montrose and the Heights, and I envision that the next few years will leave the East End looking like a nacent artists' colony before things start yuppifying in earnest.

Change comes slowly...not that it's a bad thing.

I was hearing the same thing about the 2nd Ward becoming an "artists colony" and the "next Montrose" when I was looking at renting an apartment over there about 15 years ago.

I haven't been over in that area for a few years, except for the warehouse district...but the warehouse district has always been filled with artists, ever since I've known it. Between Commerce St, the Maggot Colony, the Axiom/catal huyek/Harvey's Club DeLuxe/the Axiom, it seems that the creative folks (and those who like to get loaded) have always gravitated towards that area.

Maybe a few of them have actually made some $$$ and moved down the road into something nicer than a warehouse!

If people (presumably Anglos) are moving in and making disparaging comments about Latinos, that's not a good thing. Sounds like when all the yuppies moved into the Montrose and kicked all the cool people out.

[rps324]

I guess it comes as no surprise to anyone that I think there is a shift afoot on the east side.

I think it is pretty easy to see why. A lot of inner-loopers demand homes with some level of character/architecture/whatever you want to call it. If you are in the under $200,000 price bracket, especially if you are way under it, which many younger single buyers (among others) are, where else are you going to go?

Prices have moved so much in Heights, Garden Oaks, Montrose, Timbergrove, etc that people either can't get in there at all, or what is available is a train-wreck. Oak Forest & Westbury still have some affordability, but often times the more affordable homes in those areas are too plain for their tastes. The more interesting houses at the top end of the market in those areas are also getting more & more pricey.

There are great options that have a little character all over the east end. Just an example, (one for the won't you be my neighbor file), a custom built home came up across the street from me, loaded with mahogany paneling, hardwood floors, one of those permanent metal roofs, copper gutters, etc. A really nice house. There is an old scrapbook from the 50's still in where the original owner saved every brochure, booklet, clippings, etc that guided the selection of every appliance down to the last piece of tile. It is a great little archive. The house is about 2400 sq ft on a 12k lot in the $150's. For somebody in that price range, it will be very hard to beat in any other close in neighborhood.

[musicman]

I have noticed a big demographics change at the grocery store over the last 6 months or so...is it my imagination?? I have also heard a few derogatory remarks at the store aimed at hispanics....just outright rude and ignorant remarks. Any one notice this?

i don't think the remarks are directed at hispanics but at anyone who doesn't agree with the person's beliefs. there are some who have tried to make radical changes (which realistically won't happen in a short time span). I met one who was willing to bulldoze certain areas (3rd) ward because he said it "needed to be changed" i dont live there, but i sure defended them. If an "outsider" moves in, you have to try an get along with those who are already there first. then after that, you work for improvements with the existing residents help. i know i've made a small difference where i'm at.

Maybe a few of them have actually made some $$$ and moved down the road into something nicer than a warehouse!

If people (presumably Anglos) are moving in and making disparaging comments about Latinos, that's not a good thing. Sounds like when all the yuppies moved into the Montrose and kicked all the cool people out.

For many of them the warehouse is a 2nd home. at least the few i know. Then you have some that are being taken to court cause they won't pay their rent, like a chronicle photographer! you have good and bad everywhere.

i don't see the anglos as a problem, but i would narrow it down to people with the i'm better than you attitude.

don't know if the yuppies kicked them out, or the "cool people" left willingly. i think it was the latter. the montrose "hip" factor is fading quickly.

[Modernceo]

A demographic change to more white people on the east side ? It would take a huge amount of white people to do that, since every time Ive gone over to the east side it seemed predominanently hispanic, (probably 75-80% hispanic, and 10+% black and just a fraction of whites).