I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)

[hindesky]

9 minutes ago, CaptainJilliams said:

I figured that it was only a matter of time. Let the countdown to a congestion nightmare begin.

Hopefully they build it on the side without shutting down anything and just tie it into the excisting lanes at the end of construction. #nightmarehoustontraffic

[IronTiger]

On 4/2/2019 at 10:49 AM, cspwal said:

It would have to be pay by mail/toll tag because of the through traffic on I-10, but a dynamic charge on the inner loop freeways would probably work - and I agree, as long as it is earmarked entirely for Metro, with a requirement it's put into developing either more rail or more regional express service (aka park and ride busses, commuter rail)

Why would a state-funded freeway be tolled to go to a local entity?

[Triton]

Just got an email that new schematics are out for the I45 rebuild. I see it on the I45 and more website. 

[samagon]

I see they're still intent upon removing the pierce elevated and taking more land, and making bigger freeways on other sides of downtown rather than the affluent side.

[cspwal]

http://www.ih45northandmore.com/reviseddesign.aspx 

It says from May 2019

 

I'm not sure what's changed, but I'm trying to look at the whole downtown loop with fresh eyes

First off, Houston Ave connects to 4th ward and midtown as an actual street, turning into Heiner St

 

Why does 45 currently dip below Dallas? It goes over the bayou and Allen parkway, and then goes elevated for the Pierece elevated, but dips down under Dallas.  They keep that in the new alignment, but it only goes back to at grade of course since there's no more Pierce elevated.

 

Where is the "Be Someone" bridge?  Is it the labeled "Railroad bridge"?

 

The new 45 Max lanes as well as the 45 NB and SB are super close to White Oak Bayou - pretty much any rain and they will be over the water.

 

Currently, the Red line is elevated starting right after I-10 (where the blue arrow is).  The new plan for 45+10 is to be elevated, right where the red line elevated tracks are now.  What is the plan for that?  Burnett transit center is elevated, the tracks are elevated to avoid that RR - will they build the elevated sections of the freeway around it?  It doesn't even get acknowledged on the drawing.

 

Would it be possible to add at least a Bike bridge to Polk? Right now it's where the bike lanes go out, and that makes for a nice southern access point for EaDo

 

The only access to downtown taking I45 NB from the Gulf freeway is the newly opened ramps to Pease and St Joesph off the main lanes.  Anyone who has been on 45 with even a smidge of traffic in the last year can tell that those ramps aren't sufficient for the current traffic from 45 - what will they be like when that's the last exit until after 10?  I think the downtown destinations exit from 45 was horribly redesigned when they made the 59 direct connectors.

 

Why not put a cap park between Elgin and McGowen, or at least design for the capability?  

 

Why not start the potential green space/cap at Almeda for 59?  They could even cap the whole thing, with a building deck for most of it that they could sell property on. (Here I'm thinking like I-95 in NYC between the George Washington Bridge and the Harlem river)

 

Finally, why go to the trouble of connecting only one side of Blodget to Main street?

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by cspwal
fixed a typo

[cspwal]

Ok I found what they're going to do for the Northline at least - the freeay is going to be super tall

 

It's going to reach 70' above grade at least

[Luminare]

7 minutes ago, cspwal said:

http://www.ih45northandmore.com/reviseddesign.aspx 

It says from May 2019

 

I'm not sure what's changed, but I'm trying to look at the whole downtown loop with fresh eyes

First off, Houston Ave connects to 4th ward and midtown as an actual street, turning into Heiner St

 

Why does 45 currently dip below Dallas? It goes over the bayou and Allen parkway, and then goes elevated for the Pierece elevated, but dips down under Dallas.  They keep that in the new alignment, but it only goes back to at grade of course since there's no more Pierce elevated.

 

Where is the "Be Someone" bridge?  Is it the labeled "Railroad bridge"?

 

The new 45 Max lanes as well as the 45 NB and SB are super close to White Oak Bayou - pretty much any rain and they will be over the water.

 

Currently, the Red line is elevated starting right after I-10 (where the blue arrow is).  The new plan for 45+10 is to be elevated, right where the red line elevated tracks are now.  What is the plan for that?  Burnett transit center is elevated, the tracks are elevated to avoid that RR - will they build the elevated sections of the freeway around it?  It doesn't even get acknowledged on the drawing.

 

Would it be possible to add at least a Bike bridge to Polk? Right now it's where the bike lanes go out, and that makes for a nice southern access point for EaDo

 

The only access to downtown taking I45 NB from the Gulf freeway is the newly opened ramps to Pease and St Joesph off the main lanes.  Anyone who has been on 45 with even a smidge of traffic in the last year can tell that those ramps aren't sufficient for the current traffic from 45 - what will they be like when that's the last exit until after 10?  I think the downtown destinations exit from 45 was horribly redesigned when they made the 59 direct connectors.

 

Why not put a cap park between Elgin and McGowen, or at least design for the capability?  

 

Why not start the potential green space/cap at Almeda for 59?  They could even cap the whole thing, with a building deck for most of it that they could sell property on. (Here I'm thinking like I-95 in NYC between the George Washington Bridge and the Harlem river)

 

Finally, why go to the trouble of connecting only once side of Blodget to Main street?

 

 

Great comments. I myself will probably look over this weekend to see what I can find.

[rechlin]

I am perplexed that this is still showing the railroad going through the north edge of downtown under UHD and the northern railroad in the 6th ward (outlined in purple below).  I was under the impression they were going to be tearing down the "Be Someone" bridge and realigning it to make the northern branch of the railroad go down to the southern branch (drawn in orange below), which would also make the northern canal to White Oak bayou possible.  Has that been canceled?  If not, has nobody told TxDOT?

 

[Triton]

35 minutes ago, rechlin said:

I am perplexed that this is still showing the railroad going through the north edge of downtown under UHD and the northern railroad in the 6th ward (outlined in purple below).  I was under the impression they were going to be tearing down the "Be Someone" bridge and realigning it to make the northern branch of the railroad go down to the southern branch (drawn in orange below), which would also make the northern canal to White Oak bayou possible.  Has that been canceled?  If not, has nobody told TxDOT?

 

Yea I saw that too. Really perplexing. 

[BeerNut]

 

[samagon]

20 hours ago, cspwal said:

The only access to downtown taking I45 NB from the Gulf freeway is the newly opened ramps to Pease and St Joesph off the main lanes.  Anyone who has been on 45 with even a smidge of traffic in the last year can tell that those ramps aren't sufficient for the current traffic from 45 - what will they be like when that's the last exit until after 10?

 

I think until the ramp to 59SB is open we can't judge too harshly yet, I'd guess a majority of traffic exiting there is headed for 59SB. 

 

I do suspect though that you are right though, once pierce is demolished, anyone trying to get from the Gulf freeway that usually uses the Allen Parkway, or Memorial exit is going to have to exit there.

[cspwal]

There's a lot of swerving as well, as people who don't want to exit there realize it at the last moment.  Add in the entering traffic from Scott street, and I understand why they built the giant downtown exit ramp in the first place

[samagon]

2 minutes ago, cspwal said:

There's a lot of swerving as well, as people who don't want to exit there realize it at the last moment.  Add in the entering traffic from Scott street, and I understand why they built the giant downtown exit ramp in the first place

 

they also funnel 3 lanes to 2. which isn't a good idea.

 

they should make 2 lanes exit and 2 lanes stay. it won't fix it, but it would probably help.

[BeerNut]

Rice University Kinder Institute for Urban Research

North Houston Highway Improvement Project offers a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity

Experts to share what TxDOT's I-45 project means for Houston

Edited June 5, 2019 by BeerNut

[Triton]

4 hours ago, BeerNut said:

Rice University Kinder Institute for Urban Research

North Houston Highway Improvement Project offers a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity

Experts to share what TxDOT's I-45 project means for Houston

 

That article linked to a very interesting page at the bottom for the Downtown District. On it, that page has this PDF which I checked this forum and looks like it's never been posted here before. I wonder if the Downtown District vision PDF is newer than the City of Houston Planning Commission's presentations we saw last year. Looks like the date is Jan 31 2018 maybe based on the PDF name but I don't know...

 

http://www.downtowndistrict.org/static/media/uploads/attachments/180131_nhhip_vision_&_opportunities_final_design_report_swa_72_dpi.pdf

[CaptainJilliams]

There are some images in the presentation I don't remember seeing. Here is one concept for the EaDo Cap:

 

Even if we only saw a cap half this size, it would be a game changer for Downtown.

 

Also, I like this image of Downtown and the proposed bridge going over the Bayou. Trying to imagine The Allen rising next to the FDR Branch Building:

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by CaptainJilliams

[Triton]

1 hour ago, CaptainJilliams said:

There are some images in the presentation I don't remember seeing. Here is one concept for the EaDo Cap:

 

Even if we only saw a cap half this size, it would be a game changer for Downtown.

 

 

We have definitely seen the cap park presented by the City of Houston's Planning Commission. My main question though is... who has the latest design... is it the Planning Commission which was presented to local neighborhoods last year or is it this presentation by Downtown District/Central Houston or are these competing designs for the downtown area? 

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, CaptainJilliams said:

 

Also, I like this image of Downtown and the proposed bridge going over the Bayou. Trying to imagine The Allen rising next to the FDR Branch Building:

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that is an image of existing bridges.

[CaptainJilliams]

23 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

 

I'm pretty sure that is an image of existing bridges.

 

There’s a bright, shining bridge in the background to the left behind the scissor, pedestrian bridge in the foreground.

 

The bridge in the background would come with the rebuild of I-45. You can see it better in this image from the presentation:

Edited June 6, 2019 by CaptainJilliams

[Triton]

9 minutes ago, CaptainJilliams said:

 

There’s a bright, shining bridge in the background to the left behind the scissor, pedestrian bridge in the foreground.

 

The bridge in the background would come with the rebuild of I-45.

 

I think the coolest thing so far is that no matter who is behind that portion of the I-45 rebuild, all of them include some type of iconic bridge right here going over Buffalo Bayou. Wish we could make some type of landmark bridge that makes this spot a #1 destination for tourists to take a great photo of our city (though the Sabine bridge already gets a lot of photography activity already).

[samagon]

1 hour ago, Triton said:

 

That article linked to a very interesting page at the bottom for the Downtown District. On it, that page has this PDF which I checked this forum and looks like it's never been posted here before. I wonder if the Downtown District vision PDF is newer than the City of Houston Planning Commission's presentations we saw last year. Looks like the date is Jan 31 2018 maybe based on the PDF name but I don't know...

 

http://www.downtowndistrict.org/static/media/uploads/attachments/180131_nhhip_vision_&_opportunities_final_design_report_swa_72_dpi.pdf

 

is anyone else as concerned as I am that the people doing this don't know Houston that well?

 

page 26 shows an existing picture of downtown looking south from 45 towards downtown, they have an arrow pointed at little white oak bayou, which is labeled white oak bayou. they have an arrow pointed at white oak bayou, which is labeled UHD, they have an arrow pointed at 3rd ward and call it Eado, they have an arrow pointed at the federal building and call it county facilities. so odd.

 

the other pages are all pretty accurate, so it looks like they used apple maps for that particular page. anyway, just weird.

[DNAguy]

Why is the Walker street to Allen Parkway west connection left in the design?

 

Do we really need this road? It cuts off the Sam Houston Park from the Bayou unnecessarily. If the new, nice suspension bridge goes in which will help to reduce the obstructions between the parks, why put in a street that will most likely have cars driving 35-45 mph on it?

 

It's not like this street really helps with access or addresses any real traffic need as Sabine St. can be accessed via an intersection with Allen Pkwy now.

 

You can get on Allen Pkwy from Lamar which is … a block away!

 

I say eliminate it, reduce the need to keep it up, increase access from Bayou trails-Buffalo Bayou Park-City Hall, and reduce the potential for cars coming into contact with pedestrians / runners. 

 

[DNAguy]

Also, Why use the clover-leaf design from Allen Parkway eastbound to the Spur northbound?

 

Would it be a better use of space to just make that a flyover? Heck it might even add some symmetry. It also allows for an almost city block sized parcel of land to open up for development if sold by TxDOT

 

[cspwal]

I like the idea of a flyover more than disconnecting Walker - it provides a scenic start to Allen parkway if it starts with Walker, and there will be more people using walker than Lamar anyway to go west.

 

I think the idea behind keeping the cloverleaf is that it is cheaper, and that the traffic is going to be low volume enough that there wouldn't be a great need for a flyover ramp.  Land downtown is expensive, but so are those flyover ramps.

 

Keeping it as a clover leaf, they can have green space on the inside of the clover, keeping the area more of a park feel

[samagon]

another reason not to close walker is because the rich people that go from walker to allen pkwy, to kirby to their home in river oaks are not going to be happy hearing they have to be inconvenienced by sitting through 2 more traffic signals. there are already more traffic signals on allen pkwy as it is, won't anyone think of thier needs?

 

a less sarcastic answer, yes, kill the walker access to allen pkwy. also, just kill the direct access from allen pkwy to 45. how hard is it for someone to go down to dallas, turn left on bagby, then turn left on walker?

 

if we're asking why things were done.. there are far more people at all times of day wanting to get from memorial onto 45 (currently) than from allen pkwy to 45. As an example, in the afternoon you have to wait 3-4 cycles of the lights at Houston/Memorial to get onto 45 south. 

 

 

why is there no entrance from memorial onto 45 in the proposal? that is a far greater need than allen pkwy. currently, they're going to have to turn right on bagby, then go through 3 lights, and turn right again on walker, which is currently a very heavy traffic entry to the freeway.

 

the rest of this project around downtown may suck, but for people that currently get on 45 south from memorial, this is going to be a horrifying shit show.

[DNAguy]

27 minutes ago, samagon said:

another reason not to close walker is because the rich people that go from walker to allen pkwy, to kirby to their home in river oaks are not going to be happy hearing they have to be inconvenienced by sitting through 2 more traffic signals. there are already more traffic signals on allen pkwy as it is, won't anyone think of thier needs?

 

a less sarcastic answer, yes, kill the walker access to allen pkwy. also, just kill the direct access from allen pkwy to 45. how hard is it for someone to go down to dallas, turn left on bagby, then turn left on walker?

 

if we're asking why things were done.. there are far more people at all times of day wanting to get from memorial onto 45 (currently) than from allen pkwy to 45. As an example, in the afternoon you have to wait 3-4 cycles of the lights at Houston/Memorial to get onto 45 south. 

 

 

why is there no entrance from memorial onto 45 in the proposal? that is a far greater need than allen pkwy. currently, they're going to have to turn right on bagby, then go through 3 lights, and turn right again on walker, which is currently a very heavy traffic entry to the freeway.

 

the rest of this project around downtown may suck, but for people that currently get on 45 south from memorial, this is going to be a horrifying shit show.

 

In the new configuration, you'd be able to exit for Houston Ave, Turn right on Houston, then turn left at the Allen Parkway intersection, and then take the cloverleaf on-ramp to the Spur.

 

I guess in that way, the cloverleaf entrance does have a benefit in that it can serve both memorial AND allen parkway.

 

 

[Triton]

Mind you, there are a good amount of revisions incoming. I attended an I-45 meeting on Saturday and they showed slides which are not presently on the IH45north and more website. Since it was focused on the Northside area, they only presented the revisions for our area which included changes for N Main, big changes for the San Jacinto connection, and a number of changes near Jensen. I'll post some of the pics when I have a chance. During this last round, they made it pretty clear that they were working with a lot more local entities now to try to hammer out the more minor and local details. 

[Houston19514]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

if we're asking why things were done.. there are far more people at all times of day wanting to get from memorial onto 45 (currently) than from allen pkwy to 45. As an example, in the afternoon you have to wait 3-4 cycles of the lights at Houston/Memorial to get onto 45 south. 

 

 

why is there no entrance from memorial onto 45 in the proposal? that is a far greater need than allen pkwy. currently, they're going to have to turn right on bagby, then go through 3 lights, and turn right again on walker, which is currently a very heavy traffic entry to the freeway.

 

9

 

How do you know this? 

 

FWIW, the access from Allen Parkway was not included in the first iteration and was added in response to public comments.

[samagon]

On 6/12/2019 at 5:48 PM, Houston19514 said:

 

How do you know this? 

 

FWIW, the access from Allen Parkway was not included in the first iteration and was added in response to public comments.

 

2 reasons I know this:

 

1. I work in a tower downtown, my window faces west. in the afternoon sometimes I'm bored and just look at the traffic out the window.

 

2. I bank with wood forest and the closest one to where I live/work is in walmart on Yale. so on my way home from there I sit in the traffic at that intersection. if it were legal to turn left from waugh onto allen pkwy I would absolutely take that path rather than memorial, so much faster.

Edited June 15, 2019 by samagon

[houstontexasjack]

On 6/4/2019 at 2:05 PM, cspwal said:

Why not put a cap park between Elgin and McGowen, or at least design for the capability?  

 

Why not start the potential green space/cap at Almeda for 59?  They could even cap the whole thing, with a building deck for most of it that they could sell property on. (Here I'm thinking like I-95 in NYC between the George Washington Bridge and the Harlem river)

 

Finally, why go to the trouble of connecting only one side of Blodget to Main street?

 

 

I’d like to express my agreement regarding your idea on a McGowen/Elgin cap park. Given the width of the freeway there, that should be technically feasible based on what I’ve heard.

 

As to the question regarding the potential for a cap from Almeda to Fannin, my understanding is that the freeway is too narrow to allow for installation of the appropriate ventilators for a cap of this length to be installed as would be required for a cap of this length. The freeway by the George R. Brown is much wider, apparently allowing for the appropriate ventilation system. This issue came up at a presentation to the Museum Park Neighborhood Association, and this was the answer we were given. There was previously a plan to extend Cleburne over the freeway and have another partial cap by Almeda, but I guess that’s gone by the wayside in this latest schematic.

 

To the next query, Blodgett’s already a bit of a road to nowhere. It becomes a one-way street west of San Jacinto and cuts off at Garrott St on the other side of Main—and Garrott St just leads back to the feeder along the eastern side of the Spur. There’s not much extra connectivity that’s lost by not extending Blodgett to Main.

 

Edit: As originally posted, the first paragraph was not completed and trailed off. The edit completed the last sentence of that paragraph.

Edited June 16, 2019 by houstontexasjack