Texas Central Project

[Ross]

In Houston, the city that embraces its urban sprawl, "close to downtown" is definitely not a vague statement. There are only a few areas that qualify as "close to downtown" that have the capacity for this.

 

One of them being Northwest Mall

 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Ross

[BigFootsSocks]

Closer to the Galleria more than anything else

[Houston19514]

In Houston, the city that embraces its urban sprawl, "close to downtown" is definitely not a vague statement. There are only a few areas that qualify as "close to downtown" that have the capacity for this.

 

In reality, it is indeed quite a vague statement.  Many outside-the-loopers refer to pretty much anything inside-the-loop (at least from downtown west) to be "downtown", making both the Galleria and the Northwest Mall site "close to downtown".  (Many people even refer to the Galleria as being "downtown.")

[tigereye]

Hopefully, but "close" to downtown is such a vague statement…

FWIW, Texas Central's Facts page says this:

Where will the stations be?

Stations will be convenient to downtown Dallas and Houston, making travel easy and seamless once you arrive.

http://texascentral.com/the-facts/

Hardy Yards is convenient to Downtown. So is the Post Office site. Northwest Mall isn't convenient to anything unless both the Green Line and BRT extended here, not NWTC.

[BigFootsSocks]

In reality, it is indeed quite a vague statement. Many outside-the-loopers refer to pretty much anything inside-the-loop (at least from downtown west) to be "downtown", making both the Galleria and the Northwest Mall site "close to downtown". (Many people even refer to the Galleria as being "downtown.")

What are you talking about? I've never heard people refer to downtown as all of 610. People know montrose, River oaks, Highland Village, etc. Those areas aren't referred to as "downtown", they have their own names! I have never met anyone who refers to our Galleria as "downtown" either. To Houstonians, it is "the Galleria", and that's what we're arguing.

[UtterlyUrban]

We just met some friends in the Montrose Area for dinner. They live in Katy and have for their entire lives. The wife was very happy to be coming "downtown" for dinner and said so several times.

[Houston19514]

What are you talking about? I've never heard people refer to downtown as all of 610. People know montrose, River oaks, Highland Village, etc. Those areas aren't referred to as "downtown", they have their own names! I have never met anyone who refers to our Galleria as "downtown" either. To Houstonians, it is "the Galleria", and that's what we're arguing.

 

I'm talking about people who live in the suburbs and people who don't live in the metro area.  Many of them routinely refer to the inner loop area as "downtown".  "Went to Hugo's downtown."  "Took the kids to the childrens museum downtown."   "Stopped in at the Apple Store and Crate and Barrel while we were downtown last weekend."

[cspwal]

I have friends who moved to med center area from Kingwood and always talk about how they're now living downtown

[cloud713]

yeah.. sorry Bigfoot, but we grew up in the burbs and even my sister (who now lives off Westheimer in Uptown) calls everything inside 610 "downtown". i try to set her straight when she's talking to other people but we always just end up getting off on a tangent about all the different districts inside "downtown"/610. its kind of sad but really unless you are in the know like us HAIFers (or live ITL), its hard to keep up with all the different parts of the city.

Edited March 31, 2015 by cloud713

[ADCS]

I will say that when I'm going from the EC to somewhere inside the loop, I say i'm going "into town", but not Downtown.

[BigFootsSocks]

Living inside the loop has given me the benefit of the doubt as to names. I only say it's actually close to downtown because it most likely will be close to downtown

But I stand corrected it seems!

[Nate99]

Maybe if they go through with the downtown highway rework, the Pierce Elevated? It's next to the bus station, could reuse infrastructure...I mean, it's probably not what will end up happening, but it's an idea.

 

The Greyhound station's passenger infrastructure could be replicated using about six shipping containers, a few tarps and sawhorses/plywood.

[tigereye]

I find it laughable that anyone could think anything Inside the Loop as being classified as Downtown. Clearly these people are either transplants or need to get out more. Mind you, I'm a transplant from back East and never got this confused. When I used to live in the Woodlands. No one that I knew up there ever thought of Inside the Loop as Downtown. In fact, they were thought of as separate areas as the city skyline (the identifiable landmark) has defined ends. This essentially helps identify where Downtown's boundaries are. We're not talking about a continuous skyline like Manhattan here. There are clear gaps in between Downtown, Uptown, and the Med Center skylines.

Since former County Judge Robert Eckles is leading TCR project, I'd assume there's no confusion on TCR's part as to where they identify Downtown as being located so further debating this seems like a moot point.

Edited March 31, 2015 by tigereye

[BigFootsSocks]

/thread

[Luminare]

Come on guys this is getting silly. I expect semantics like this from a Chron.com comment section, not HAIF -.-

[JLWM8609]

Come on guys this is getting silly. I expect semantics like this from a Chron.com comment section, not HAIF -.-

 

Nah. A Chron.com comment section would accuse high speed rail as a socialist plot by Obama to take away our cars and Bibles and make us ride on trains with gay couples and welfare recipients.

[tigereye]

Nah. A Chron.com comment section would accuse high speed rail as a socialist plot by Obama to take away our cars and Bibles and make us ride on trains with gay couples and welfare recipients.

...and someone would be asking if Katy should evacuate.

[BigFootsSocks]

We're just bored lol

[LarryDierker]

I'm sure when Texas central says downtown, they mean downtown.

 

However, i once gave a girl from Meyerland a ride to the Medical Center because she didn't know how to drive downtown.

I had dinner at Katz's with a couple from Pasadena and later said that they enjoyed going out downtown.

I know a couple from Clear Lake that have never been downtown.

I knew a girl from Deer Park taking classes downtown at St. Thomas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Witch King]

Has this topic "de-railed"? (Pun Intended)

[august948]

Has this topic "de-railed"? (Pun Intended)

 

It's a high speed derailment.

 

[Sparrow]

Has this topic "de-railed"? (Pun Intended)

 

I'd say we need someone to get it back on track.

[Sparrow]

New series of meetings scheduled for this month by TCP (Texas Central Partners--the entity that will develop and operate the railway, not to be confused with TCR, the entity that is promoting the development of the railway).

 

http://texascentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TCR-WEB-ad-OpenHouse-v61.pdf

 

 

(As an aside, it's interesting to note that the Cypress meeting will take place in Tin Hall which was on the most recent Planning Commission agenda to be redeveloped into single family housing.)

 

 

[BigFootsSocks]

I think the name is all lawyer speak. Anyway, glad they're doing a cypress meeting. No ones really mentioned it but they really need to consider the impact this line is going to have on the 290 area as well as around the stations. Think about it, this won't just be suburbia anymore. Now we've got 21st century access to another city right next door to a booming population.

If TCR were smart (which they are), and the Howard Hughes company were smart and forward thinking, they should place a station somewhere in Bridgelands. It may not be as big as the Woodlands, but it's pretty damn close. This is the best case of future proofing this city could do in years.

[Luminare]

Don't know if this has been posted, but it's a Letter to the Editor of the Madisonville Meteor:

 

http://texascentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Madisonville-Meteor-Letter-to-the-Editor1.pdf

[MaxConcrete]

I think the name is all lawyer speak. Anyway, glad they're doing a cypress meeting. No ones really mentioned it but they really need to consider the impact this line is going to have on the 290 area as well as around the stations. Think about it, this won't just be suburbia anymore. Now we've got 21st century access to another city right next door to a booming population.

If TCR were smart (which they are), and the Howard Hughes company were smart and forward thinking, they should place a station somewhere in Bridgelands. It may not be as big as the Woodlands, but it's pretty damn close. This is the best case of future proofing this city could do in years.

 

On the audio for the March 27 HGAC meeting (http://www.h-gac.com/taq/commitees/TPC/2015/03-mar/docs/Item-8.mp3, unfortunately very poor audio quality), at 13:20 Eckels says they are studying a station at the Hockley/Grand Parkway area.

 

Near the end, the discussion gives the impression that a downtown terminus is near-certain and the only question is the location.

 

At 18:20, Eckels' comments suggest that a station at the northwest transit center is still in play, since he talks about BRT connections to the Galleria.

 

So it sounds like the original plan for one station only in Houston could be under review.

 

I have always had the opinion that a partnership between between TxDOT, Harris County and TCR is possible for potential commuter rail. It makes sense to build the Hempstead Tollway in conjunction with the high speed rail. A high-capacity transit corridor is part of the approved corridor plan. TxDOT would cover some or all of the cost of the intersection-free corridor for the train, since they would already be building an intersection-free corridor for the tollway. In return, a local commuter rail agency would get rights to run commuter rail on the track, and that would require a suburban station and probably a Northwest Transit center station.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2015 by MaxConcrete

[BigFootsSocks]

That honestly sounds like a great plan but would never work. The counties in between Houston and Dallas would lose their minds over tax payer money going towards this, and would most certainly continue to raise an even bigger annoyance than they are now. This initial phase needs to be a "prove-it" phase; a way to show the naysayers that TCR can do this the right way. If the line is popular, who's to say the rest of the state won't get jealous and demand their local governments to allocate federal funding.

[MaxConcrete]

That honestly sounds like a great plan but would never work. The counties in between Houston and Dallas would lose their minds over tax payer money going towards this, and would most certainly continue to raise an even bigger annoyance than they are now.

 

It depends how much political power the rural counties have. My perception is that they can create a lot of noise, but they don't have much influence, especially in consideration of the large Houston and DFW influence. If TxDOT does provide a 50-foot-wide strip in conjunction with the Hempstead Tollway, the cost could be attributed to toll payers rather than taxpayers, or it could be justified to the public as getting a valuable track right (commuter rail) in return for the money.

 

Even if a partnership for commuter rail or any kind of public support is not happening, it makes sense to build the Hempstead Tollway and high speed rail at the same time. TxDOT and TCR would share the cost of grade separations, lowering the cost for both.

 

[BigFootsSocks]

As long as the infrastructure is payed by private hands. However, TCR should be weary with not disclosing any information in this open-realm Internet age

[IronTiger]

It depends how much political power the rural counties have. My perception is that they can create a lot of noise, but they don't have much influence, especially in consideration of the large Houston and DFW influence. If TxDOT does provide a 50-foot-wide strip in conjunction with the Hempstead Tollway, the cost could be attributed to toll payers rather than taxpayers, or it could be justified to the public as getting a valuable track right (commuter rail) in return for the money.

 

Even if a partnership for commuter rail or any kind of public support is not happening, it makes sense to build the Hempstead Tollway and high speed rail at the same time. TxDOT and TCR would share the cost of grade separations, lowering the cost for both.

The plans that I saw for the 290 master plan did include the Hempstead Tollway but also an HSR corridor. Problem is, that such a thing would require a ton of right of way clearances from what I saw, which would raise the costs by a significant margin. There is, however, an ample space between the railroad and the road to put an HSR without demolition or trying to build it directly over the freight line. There would need to be at least one freight line at ground level to provide access to spurs, unless you want to up and abandon all of those as well.