The Boulevard Project

[zaphod]

I was wondering, are there any plans to build a light rail line to the "uptown houston" area? it would be really cool and with the west loop cursed by an ancient indian burial ground to have terrible traffic, i could see a lot of going to a park n ride and riding metrorail over there.

PS: how do i edit my posts?

[tomv]

Yes

Metro Website

[YakuzaIce]

PS: how do i edit my posts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

See the little blue buttons at the bottom right of each post? On most it says Quote or Reply, but on yours it should have a third button that says Edit. Just click this, edit your post, and then press Submit modified post.

[SkylineView]

Am I reading this correctly that they would propose bus lanes down Post Oak Blvd through the Galleria?

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/river_oaks/news/metro-reviewing-uptown-transit-plan/article_0b04ed4a-f797-11e1-834e-001a4bcf887a.html

[IHB2]

Am I reading this correctly that they would propose bus lanes down Post Oak Blvd through the Galleria?

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/river_oaks/news/metro-reviewing-uptown-transit-plan/article_0b04ed4a-f797-11e1-834e-001a4bcf887a.html

there's some discussion of this info on the Uptown Line thread -

[SkylineView]

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to put it, but it seems like buses are the current way forward. I'll be honest, I'm sad to see the median go. It's a great feature of Post Oak Blvd. While the street isn't exactly "pedestrian friendly", having a few trees and plants is preferable (in my opinion) to adding another two 12ft lanes of pavement. That said, I fully respect the need for transit development, and prefer it now before we add another 5,000 local residents and 2M sqare feet of office space.

http://www.chron.com/memorial/news/article/Uptown-district-proposes-transit-project-3893349.php

[mfastx]

I think the loss of a median isn't a big deal, whether it's for rail or bus lanes. Most large cities don't even have medians in their core.

Glad to see more transit development in Houston. Hopefully the Uptown line will still be built eventually.

[Houston19514]

The plan does not eliminate the landscaped medians.

[SkylineView]

Houston19514... your post forced me back into the interwebs to see if there was a report on it somewhere... and there is. From August 2012 (boo yah), and with every possible detail, alignment, and proposed schedule of construction. The trees DO stay, or rather, get relocated and sup'planted' with a bunch more trees.

http://www.ridemetro.org/AboutUs/Board/working_meetings/2012/082312/Uptown-POB-Transit-to-METRO-Committee082312.pdf

The image from Nantes may be a good goal... but I just don't see that much play-ground on Post Oak if they keep three lanes each way. According to the diagram on slide 35, the typical width for everything (non-intersection areas) would be three medians (10ft, 6ft, and 10ft) plus two 10ft bus lanes. 46ft total? I'm guessing they are going to eat up some more real estate on each side.

That said, I like this proposal. I live and work in the area, so I won't be going to the transit centers, but I would absolutely take it to get further south down Post Oak from where I live... though I can't imagine I'll still be here in 2017.

[totheskies]

It ain't rail, but definitely better than nothing!! IMO, the University Line should still be the top priority.

[shasta]

http://www.chron.com/memorial/news/article/Metro-supports-Post-Oak-transit-proposal-3974878.php

[mfastx]

It's unfortunate that the second largest employment center in Houston is just going to get a glorified bus system, that will most likely not provide any meaningful improvements and not have as much of an impact as a rail line would.

[TheNiche]

It's unfortunate that the second largest employment center in Houston is just going to get a glorified bus system, that will most likely not provide any meaningful improvements and not have as much of an impact as a rail line would.

It's unfortunate that we don't have Maglev. Maybe it's because we haven't the fortune to spend.

[mfastx]

It's unfortunate that we don't have Maglev. Maybe it's because we haven't the fortune to spend.

Get rid of GM payments and we can afford the proposed rail line. Maglev.. not quite lol.

[TheNiche]

Get rid of GM payments and we can afford the proposed rail line. Maglev.. not quite lol.

Raise taxes and we can afford the Maglev. Same difference. The money's got to come from somewhere.

[mfastx]

Raise taxes and we can afford the Maglev. Same difference. The money's got to come from somewhere.

Eh.. I get what you're saying, I just don't think it's very relevant. I just feel like what I said is reasonable enough.

[TheNiche]

Eh.. I get what you're saying, I just don't think it's very relevant. I just feel like what I said is reasonable enough.

What you said was whining. I demonstrated as much by whining back at you about something for which the proximate cause of the grievance was the same: a lack of money. There was nothing at all insightful that you communicated, and my response to you is a critique of your vapid rhetorical style.

[mfastx]

What you said was whining. I demonstrated as much by whining back at you about something for which the proximate cause of the grievance was the same: a lack of money. There was nothing at all insightful that you communicated, and my response to you is a critique of your vapid rhetorical style.

Fair enough. I'm dissapointed that Uptown is getting a second or third rate system. Had to tell someone.

[Slick Vik]

It's unfortunate that we don't have Maglev. Maybe it's because we haven't the fortune to spend.

Yawn. Nice way to give a condescending reply.

[IHB2]

Yawn. Nice way to give a condescending reply.

the reply to the initial link (story) was in fact vapid. "a glorified bus system" hardly begins to encompass the multi $$$millions Uptown and Metro will be spending on this project, the disruptions to mobility on Wpark, 59, and Post Oak while a Transit Center, a T connector to 59 in an already jam-packed 59/610 interchange, and the tear-up and widening of Post Oak take place.

[SkylineView]

Thread with all the juicy details linked below... I try to figure out how they can wedge in an additional 40 odd feet of right of way every day I drive down it, but I still can't sort it out... even if you took 20 feet on each side.

http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/27043-bus-lanes-down-post-oak/

[Slick Vik]

the reply to the initial link (story) was in fact vapid. "a glorified bus system" hardly begins to encompass the multi $$$millions Uptown and Metro will be spending on this project, the disruptions to mobility on Wpark, 59, and Post Oak while a Transit Center, a T connector to 59 in an already jam-packed 59/610 interchange, and the tear-up and widening of Post Oak take place.

This is why such work should've been done a generation ago

[mfastx]

the reply to the initial link (story) was in fact vapid. "a glorified bus system" hardly begins to encompass the multi $$$millions Uptown and Metro will be spending on this project, the disruptions to mobility on Wpark, 59, and Post Oak while a Transit Center, a T connector to 59 in an already jam-packed 59/610 interchange, and the tear-up and widening of Post Oak take place.

That's ironic, because that's what some call our light rail line.

So if it isn't a glorified bus system (by definition if nothing else) then what is it? BRT? I didn't see anything about it being BRT.

And if the Uptown line was supposedly going to cause hell in Uptown with the construction and operation, I find it odd that no one is complaining about this.

[TheNiche]

That's ironic, because that's what some call our light rail line.

So if it isn't a glorified bus system (by definition if nothing else) then what is it? BRT? I didn't see anything about it being BRT.

And if the Uptown line was supposedly going to cause hell in Uptown with the construction and operation, I find it odd that no one is complaining about this.

I really like that the Uptown Management District is paying for such a large share of a lower overall project cost. Construction shouldn't take as long or be as disruptive as light rail. And I suspect that they'll do a better job on integrating signal priority and timing between the buses and regular traffic than METRO has done with light rail on the Red Line. And at the very least, they're securing right of way.

All in all, I'm fairly pleased at this point.

[mfastx]

I really like that the Uptown Management District is paying for such a large share of a lower overall project cost. Construction shouldn't take as long or be as disruptive as light rail. And I suspect that they'll do a better job on integrating signal priority and timing between the buses and regular traffic than METRO has done with light rail on the Red Line. And at the very least, they're securing right of way.

All in all, I'm fairly pleased at this point.

What's your source on this? I've seen standard street re-do's take years. It's going to be a huge project, and judging by all of the flyovers to 59 it will be even bigger.

Not saying it shouldn't happen because of this, but I'd say that the impact of construction will be somewhat similar.

[SkylineView]

Let's also not forget that the final alignment (south end of post oak) is contingent on the 59/610 interchange partial reconstruction (linked here... http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif/topic/26657-59-610-interchange-partial-rebuild/). I was initially also surprised that it would take until 2017... until you consider the tree and utility movements required. Getting that accomplished, alone, by 2015 would phenomenal, with final construction thereafter. That said, it's obvious that the west loop and post oak are both going to be a cluster with existing congestion and construction for the foreseeable future.

[TheNiche]

Even better. There's already work that'll be going on, and this would tie in. And again...the neighborhood is paying for it, not me.

[samagon]

It's unfortunate that the second largest employment center in Houston is just going to get a glorified bus system, that will most likely not provide any meaningful improvements and not have as much of an impact as a rail line would.

it's really awesome because you get all the added congestion of a dedicated bus lane that takes up as much ROW as the rail would, but you don't get the same reliability of a rail system.

the best of both worlds!

[RedScare]

it's really awesome because you get all the added congestion of a dedicated bus lane that takes up as much ROW as the rail would, but you don't get the same reliability of a rail system.

the best of both worlds!

Actually...think about that.You don't have the money to build a rail line for the next 20 years. So, you partner with the Uptown District to purchase and set aside the ROW for rail, put buses on it to build traffic, and in 20 years hopefully it can be replaced with rail.

That's considered smart planning in some places. Apparently, not on HAIF.

[Slick Vik]

Actually...think about that.You don't have the money to build a rail line for the next 20 years. So, you partner with the Uptown District to purchase and set aside the ROW for rail, put buses on it to build traffic, and in 20 years hopefully it can be replaced with rail.

That's considered smart planning in some places. Apparently, not on HAIF.

Why wait 20 years?

[TheNiche]

Why wait 20 years?

To piss off trolls, that's why.

[Pumapayam]

I call B.S. on this.

If and when the University Line gets built, Uptown Line by association going to become rail.

I agree, it will be a ROW purchase, but I don't expect the BRT version to last long.

I think they are lowering our expectations, again, and will revert back to a rail line for another press release like they did a few years ago.

[shasta]

Actually...think about that.You don't have the money to build a rail line for the next 20 years. So, you partner with the Uptown District to purchase and set aside the ROW for rail, put buses on it to build traffic, and in 20 years hopefully it can be replaced with rail.

That's considered smart planning in some places. Apparently, not on HAIF.

Red Scare,

The voters already approved the framework for 5 additional rail lines, including the University and Uptown Lines in what................ 2003?

The Uptown Management District needs to focus on their previous commitments BEFORE they propose adding additionakl costs for a plan that doesn't accomplish what the voters approved.

If it is addition too...fine but it looks like they are preparing the pro-transit detarctors or a soft landing.

[TheNiche]

The voters already approved the framework for 5 additional rail lines, including the University and Uptown Lines in what................ 2003?

The Uptown Management District needs to focus on their previous commitments BEFORE they propose adding additionakl costs for a plan that doesn't accomplish what the voters approved.

If it is addition too...fine but it looks like they are preparing the pro-transit detarctors or a soft landing.

The concept of voter approval doesn't have any relation to the concept of a commitment from METRO or a mandate of METRO. You should go read the text of the 2003 referendum.

[samagon]

Actually...think about that.You don't have the money to build a rail line for the next 20 years. So, you partner with the Uptown District to purchase and set aside the ROW for rail, put buses on it to build traffic, and in 20 years hopefully it can be replaced with rail.

That's considered smart planning in some places. Apparently, not on HAIF.

spend what you can when you have it, I get that, and applaud them for at least doing some of the work, it's much the same as the light rail itself, and I am sorry for being a hypocrite in that regard (change out buses and light rail and put in subway somewhere and I've been on the other side of that argument myself).

Not that it really affects me too much, I go to the Galleria maybe once a year to check out the Swatch store offering in person (I hate watch shopping online, and like to replace my Swatches fairly regularly), anyway, yeah, glad they're doing what they can with what they have to improve mobility for public transit, it just seems one step above getting some used Jeepneys from the Philippines for the corridor.

Edited October 31, 2012 by samagon

[RedScare]

anyway, yeah, glad they're doing what they can with what they have to improve mobility for public transit, it just seems one step above getting some used Jeepneys from the Philippines for the corridor.

Well, you had an intelligent post going there, and then you just went full retard.

Never go full retard.

[samagon]

Well, you had an intelligent post going there, and then you just went full retard.

Never go full retard.

I should compartmentalize my posts into serious and full derp sections. That was full derp.

[RedScare]

Eh, it's Hallowe'en. If you can't go derp on Hallowe'en, when can you?

[Slick Vik]

To piss off trolls, that's why.

Wonderful insight.

[Trae]

Actually...think about that.You don't have the money to build a rail line for the next 20 years. So, you partner with the Uptown District to purchase and set aside the ROW for rail, put buses on it to build traffic, and in 20 years hopefully it can be replaced with rail.

That's considered smart planning in some places. Apparently, not on HAIF.

Ah yes, let's wait twenty years and have prices for rail skyrocket even more and then complain about the prices when the time comes. If they don't build the rail now, its not going to happen (changing from brt to rail).

[TheNiche]

Ah yes, let's wait twenty years and have prices for rail skyrocket even more and then complain about the prices when the time comes. If they don't build the rail now, its not going to happen (changing from brt to rail).

The "skyrocketing" costs you cite are primarily related to land acquisition, which certainly is important. One of the reasons that Dallas was able to afford so much fixed-guideway transit is that they purchased intact rights of way from railroad companies decades in advance of actually needing to use it. Houston's experience will be more costly because we are trying to develop light rail along the highest-profile and most expensive frontage in the entire city. And yeah, it's going to be expensive, and yeah that would be subject to inflation if they didn't do it now.

But they're doing it now, so quit whining.

As for materials costs, that's mostly having to do with construction of Asian infrastructure, financed by distorted patterns of international trade and a weak dollar. The most important thing we could do to address light rail and other infrastructure costs (aside from ROW acquisition) would be to get the State Department to hold China's feet to the fire on its WTO agreements, and to kick it out of the WTO if necessary. (Of course...if you think that Obama is totally ineffectual loser and you've got no confidence in his ability to do anything except to further devalue the dollar and cause economic malaise, well then yeah we need to build up our infrastructure as quickly as possible, while there's still some purchasing power left.)

Other factors contributing to inflation are more evenly-distributed, meaning that prices increase, but so do sales, sales taxes, and revenue to transit agencies.

[IHB2]

Bill King's LRT obituary in today's Chron. Be sure to read Crossley's comment below the article

http://www.chron.com/opinion/king/article/King-Metro-vote-means-end-of-light-rail-project-4017617.php

Edited November 9, 2012 by IHB2

[RedScare]

Ah, the former mayor of Kemah, still trying to make himself relevant.

[mfastx]

Wow what an uninformed article, lol.

Glad he's happy that Houston's transit will not improve. He must have had a bad experience with rail when he was younger.

That's just blind hatred, with no regard for rational thinking at all.

Edited November 9, 2012 by mfastx

[TheNiche]

Wow what an uninformed article, lol.

Glad he's happy that Houston's transit will not improve. He must have had a bad experience with rail when he was younger.

That's just blind hatred, with no regard for rational thinking at all.

Dude, look in the mirror. Pot meet kettle. Bad and unenlightened articles do not merit similar but opposing responses.

[mfastx]

Dude, look in the mirror. Pot meet kettle. Bad and unenlightened articles do not merit similar but opposing responses.

At least I attempt to back up my claims with actual numbers and statsitics. Don't let you personal disagreements with me distort things. I know significantly more about transit than Bill King, that much is obvious.

[TheNiche]

At least I attempt to back up my claims with actual numbers and statsitics. Don't let you personal disagreements with me distort things. I know significantly more about transit than Bill King, that much is obvious.

I've written a number of articles, newsletters, white papers, and data-intensive full-length studies in my day, and ump-teen-thousand posts on HAIF. When I write with the intent of accomplishing something, I write with an audience in mind.

In the business realm, they may be executives or analysts. In the political realm, they're typically city councilmembers, a department head, or someone in a similar capacity. If I'm boiling down my points into an executive summary, businesspeople like bullet points with a conclusion that validates their preconceived notions. Politicians like vapid, imprecise, and defensible drivel with a conclusion that validates their preconceived notions. The marketing folks and the media just want sensational bloviation that grabs attention. The Chronicle is in the entertainment business. They want people to read articles, get a rise, comment about them, link to them, and drive traffic to their site.

Bill King's op-ed surely was not very informative. I won't dispute that. But then, neither are Crossley's articles when he gets published. Neither of them would be figures in the press if they came off like analytical know-it-all pricks. Having said that, I've met each of them on a variety of occasions. They aren't as oblivious as they come across as in print.

Edited November 9, 2012 by TheNiche

[mfastx]

I've written a number of articles, newsletters, white papers, and data-intensive full-length studies in my day, and ump-teen-thousand posts on HAIF. When I write with the intent of accomplishing something, I write with an audience in mind.

In the business realm, they may be executives or analysts. In the political realm, they're typically city councilmembers, a department head, or someone in a similar capacity. If I'm boiling down my points into an executive summary, businesspeople like bullet points with a conclusion that validates their preconceived notions. Politicians like vapid, imprecise, and defensible drivel with a conclusion that validates their preconceived notions. The marketing folks and the media just want sensational bloviation that grabs attention. The Chronicle is in the entertainment business. They want people to read articles, get a rise, comment about them, link to them, and drive traffic to their site.

Bill King's op-ed surely was not very informative. I won't dispute that. But then, neither are Crossley's articles when he gets published. Neither of them would be figures in the press if they came off like analytical know-it-all pricks. Having said that, I've met each of them on a variety of occasions. They aren't as oblivious as they come across as in print.

You are a great writer, and you make excellent points in your posts. I do not pretend to be a good writer at all, I am simply wish to communicate my opinions on a message board.

And I completely understand your point about writing. As a business student, I've learned a great deal about business writing in general. And I'm sure that Mr. King is a very smart man in some respects. I just think he should do some more research about public transit before jumping to his conclusions.

By the way, I am usually dissapointed in Crossley's articles. They are too vague in describing the benefits of rail and are sometimes inaccurate. But I guess that type of writing works better.

[Houston19514]

You are a great writer, and you make excellent points in your posts. I do not pretend to be a good writer at all, I am simply wish to communicate my opinions on a message board.

And I completely understand your point about writing. As a business student, I've learned a great deal about business writing in general. And I'm sure that Mr. King is a very smart man in some respects. I just think he should do some more research about public transit before jumping to his conclusions.

By the way, I am usually dissapointed in Crossley's articles. They are too vague in describing the benefits of rail and are sometimes inaccurate. But I guess that type of writing works better.

Do more research? You are too kind to Mr. King. He should do some research. He doesn't even have the ridership numbers correct. (Metro rail averaged 32,000 per day in December 2011, not 25,000 as he stated.)

[IHB2]

Do more research? You are too kind to Mr. King. He should do some research. He doesn't even have the ridership numbers correct. (Metro rail averaged 32,000 per day in December 2011, not 25,000 as he stated.)

and yet....he won

at least in the short term. and as mentioned numerous times on HAIF - delay is the death for controversial multi-billion $$$ projects like the 2003 Solutions LRT component

Bill King is unlikely ever to have to comment on the piss-poor routing of the University Line b/c it ain't gonna get built while he's still physically able to write for the Chron ;-)