Pasadena Homeowner Kills Men Burglarizing Neighbor's House

[memebag]

You probably do not know this, but TJ looks like that guy in Mark Barnes' avatar.

You learn something new every day. I thought Mark F. Barnes looked like that guy in Mark F. Barnes' avatar.

BTW, what you are missing is that TJ is taking the vigilante's statements as facts. It is rather rare in the criminal law business to take the suspect's statements as fact, without evidence to support it. So, while you are ignoring the shooter's statements, TJ is relying on them as "facts". You two will never reach agreement until you deal with this issue.

I don't really expect us to deal with that issue or reach agreement. Just between you and me, I would argue with the wind.

[RedScare]

You learn something new every day. I thought Mark F. Barnes looked like that guy in Mark F. Barnes' avatar.

Nah, that's not Mark, it's TJ. Mark just wishes he looked like that.

FWIW, I think they are both a couple of tittiebabies.

[MidtownCoog]

It is rather rare in the criminal law business to take the suspect's statements as fact, without evidence to support it.

I hope the shooter will be blessed Native Texans and Harris County residents on a Jury/Jury.

Sympathy for dead thiefs is a Carpetbagger invention.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Nah, that's not Mark, it's TJ. Mark just wishes he looked like that.

FWIW, I think they are both a couple of tittiebabies.

As long as they're Lebanese titties I'm all in.

[JLWM8609]

I hope the shooter will be blessed Native Texans and Harris County residents on a Jury/Jury.

I hope the jury will be comprised of intelligent individuals who will base their decisions logically, leave emotions at the courthouse door, rely on evidence, and what the LAW says. If the Scottsboro Boys and Emmett Till cases have taught us anything, juries full of "good ole' boys" are dangerous (in NO way am I comparing the theives to Till or the Scottsboro Boys, to do so would be an insult to the Till family and surviving relatives of the Scottsboro Boys).

[TJones]

Nah, that's not Mark, it's TJ. Mark just wishes he looked like that.

FWIW, I think they are both a couple of tittiebabies.

Yeah, a tittiebaby that could squash your puny head like a grape. But, I'd buy you another beer first.

No no, Mark's right, I am only 4 foot 7 inches tall.

The difference between me and Mark, is that he is retaining water from the steroids. I am retaining cheeseburgers and fries. Oh, and that IS Mark, I am much better looking in a weightlifting belt.

Red, meme is relying on Joe's statements also, or does meme not believe that Joe was in his own house when he made the 911 call ? Does meme believe it when Joe says he was gonna kill them ? Maybe Joe didn't kill them, perhaps there was a second shooter on a grassy knoll ? If he believes ANY part of Joe's statement, then why not believe the rest ?

I am sorry it upsets your delicate sensibilities that I believe Joe Horn was forced to show those two dirtbags how his BOOMSTICK works.

I wonder if there are any cops on this forum or gun experts that could answer this, since I am neither. I will go out on a limb here and say how far would a shotgun blast (depending on type of shot used) from pointblank range might knock someone back ?

[TheNiche]

I am sorry it upsets your delicate sensibilities that I believe Joe Horn was forced to show those two dirtbags how his BOOMSTICK works.

TJ, I think you oughta string together a bit more of the story in more terms like these, then sell it to a gay porn producer in LA. You could make a lot of money.

[RedScare]

If he believes ANY part of Joe's statement, then why not believe the rest ?

The law deals with this in a logical way. Statements made by a person that go against their self interest are generally much more reliable than self serving statements. This is why a person confessing to a crime is more believable than when he gives an alibi. In this case, Horn's initial call is believable, as he has nothing to hide. His statement that he is going to kill them is what it is. However, once he shoots the burglars, his statements take on a decidedly defensive tone, as he tries to paint himself in a more favorable light. The statements made AFTER the shooting are much more suspect, and should be looked at in comparison to the physical evidence on the scene and the forensics.

It is common to find some statements believable, yet others made by the same person unbelievable. Ultimately, the jury decides which ones to believe.

[TJones]

TJ, I think you oughta string together a bit more of the story in more terms like these, then sell it to a gay porn producer in LA. You could make a lot of money.

How on Earth did you know what I do for a living ? That's weird.

I agree with you Red, until he is proven to be a liar, then I will go with Joe's account of the events.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

I have no interest in participating in this vigilante lovefest. Justifiable homicide or not, reading posts that say they are "happy" to read that people are killed, or that they would buy the shooter a beer, make my stomach turn. I have little sympathy for burglars. I have less for vigilantes.

You probably would not like my opinion on the value Americans place on property over human life, anyway.

Note to Mark Barnes: Last time I checked, Puerto Rico is part of the US. Generally, US citizens of hispanic ancestry do not need "work visas", or "documentation, legal or not".

As usual I agree Red. Well said

Didn't cost the taxpayer a dime to incarcerate it's menaces to society. Today it costs $2,174,007,030.00 a year to house it's inmates. Prison's are now air-conditioned, they all have Tvs for their cells, (if you don't believe me, take a drive up to Huntsville and drive in front of the Walls Unit at night, and every cell is lit up with a TV, you can see it from the street as you drive by.)

LOL. I worked at the Retrieve Prison in '01 and did training at two Rosharon Prisons and "Rocking D" Prison (Darington) Believe me NON of them had AC or TVs in cells. I heard a couple of the Jester units had AC and elevetors, I guess it just varies. It's not pretty.

[JLWM8609]

I prefer not to use the media as a legal resource, I instead pulled up a direct link to the Texas Penal Code as archived on the Official State of Texas Website. Not some media interpretation of the law.

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/pe.toc.htm

I can't seem to find the part where it says the word "occupied" anywhere.

Once again it reads like this:

TEXAS PENAL CODE

TITLE 2. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

SECTION 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSONS PROPERTY

[LarryDallas]

I didn't read each post in this thread so my appologies if anything is repeated.

My 2 cents on this topic is that the citizens have to stop depending on the govt (at all levels) to take care of them and handle their safety. Criminals would think twice about doing crimes if they knew they would get a gun shot at them by a citizen instead of just risking arrest by the police and being processed by the criminal justice system. I do not advocate a gun culture like in the old west where everyone has a 6 shooter on their hip and can legally shoot guns on Main Street USA. BUT, if you see someone stealing and you can put a stop to it then the law should not require you to stand by and do nothing while waiting on the police to arrive.

I support Horn in this case because defending the intruders is defending the indefensible. Yeah, the action Horn took may have been excessive but the risk the intruders took was also excessive. This was not a low level crime like shoplifting a candy bar. When you break into someone's home you pretty much threaten their life by default. Even though it was not Horn's house he had an obligation as the guy next door to protect the area.

A lot of people like to talk tough online but honestly I do not know if I could shoot to kill another human being but the guy that lives next door to me is also a gun nut, retired, and always in his driveway tinkering with his cars and motorcycles. This is the best security you can have.

[crunchtastic]

the citizens have to stop depending on the govt (at all levels) to take care of them and handle their safety.

Sorry, this is not the United States of America I thought I lived in. Welcome to the 21st century of contracted security and constant low-level conflict.

Why should I not depend on my taxing entity to provide security and protection? Oh, right: Because someone could otherwise be making a profit. All the post-war sci-fi writers are being proven right, and it's downright creepy. Cops? Your neighborhood patrol will be sub-sub-contracted out of Blackwater, and your monthly security fee will be conveniently rolled into your mortgage. That, or if you live in the city, hope you have a gun happy neighbor who happens to like you?

(only a tiny bit of) hyperbole aside, my point is, every time someone makes the statement "you have to stop depending on the govt" this will be the result. Welcome to the bright future of corporatized government: The government will take you at your word, keep on taxing you, yet, you will get to pay for every formerly public service out of your pocket. And p.s. inflation is only 2.8%.

Be careful what you ask for.

[sevfiv]

Fox26 posted a report with video from the protest yesterday:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Ne...mp;pageId=3.2.1

Sad to see the words/actions exchanged between the two parties.

[crunchtastic]

Quannell sure has a set, to show up there.

Makes me wonder about my neighbors. I know a couple of my neighhbors are gun owners. We socialize a bit, look after each others homes when somoene's away, etc. I've never heard them talk about any specific trigger-happy fantasies, though.

This story offers a good opportunity to talk with your neighbors, and understand their thoughts and predilections. I think I'll do that, knowing that many of us (including myself) are armed.

[cottonmather0]

Anyone watch the news tonight? Turns out that 'ole Joe stumbled onto something bigger than just a random break-in:

Link

DPS already had their eye on burglars shot by Joe Horn

06:07 PM CST on Tuesday, December 4, 2007

By Rucks Russell / 11 News

Even before their deaths prompted a series of heated debates about the use of deadly force, detectives at the Department of Public Safety had their eye on Diego Ortiz and Miguel Dejesus.

The two were shot and killed by Joe Horn, a Pasadena man who thought they were burglarizing his neighbor

[memebag]

So now we know that:

- In all likelihood these guys were indeed illegals.

- They probably knew exactly what they were going after (a bag of cash) when they went to that house.

- Joe's claims that they "came right at me" probably are plausible when considering these guys are "extremely violent."

- Quannel X is a douchebag criminal lover (with all apologies to Todd Graham).

And now we don't know:

• Anything they would have told us about the "organized syndicate of Columbians".
  

[HtownWxBoy]

- Quannel X is a douchebag criminal lover (with all apologies to Todd Graham).

[JLWM8609]

- Quannel X is a douchebag criminal lover (with all apologies to Todd Graham).

Ugh. I don't think a criminal lover would tell the press he condemns their actions.

From Monday's Chronicle:

"Our position is that we do not condone their actions. We condemn their actions. But Horn acted as police officer, judge, jury and executioner all at the same time."

Though I don't agree with him all the time, I agree with Quannel in this instance. The law DOES state that Horn was out of line, thus logically, some sort of punishment must take place.

[HtownWxBoy]

Ugh. I don't think a criminal lover would tell the press he condemns their actions.

From Monday's Chronicle:

"Our position is that we do not condone their actions. We condemn their actions. But Horn acted as police officer, judge, jury and executioner all at the same time."

Though I don't agree with him all the time, I agree with Quannel in this instance. The law DOES state that Horn was out of line, thus logically, some sort of punishment must take place.

Of course Quannel X doesn't condone their actions. What bugs me about Quannel X is that if the colors were reversed (white victims, black shooter) he wouldn't give a crap... and yet he claims to be someone who stands up against racism. I don't like racism in any way ... black on white... white on black... yellow on black... brown on yellow... etc. etc.

Regarding Horn... I really don't know what to think. I have a hard time feeling bad for the victims... I mean, I know not to break into houses that aren't mine since I know I could get arrested or killed... who didn't teach them that? But, I am also not sure if what Horn did was right, I guess we will need to let the justice system takes its course.

[memebag]

But, I am also not sure if what Horn did was right, I guess we will need to let the justice system takes its course.

His position (and that of his supporters) is that if someone seems to be breaking the law, then someone else has the right to kill them. Since Joe Horn seems to have broken the law, why bother with the justice system?

[HtownWxBoy]

His position (and that of his supporters) is that if someone seems to be breaking the law, then someone else has the right to kill them. Since Joe Horn seems to have broken the law, why bother with the justice system?

I don't think that was his exact position, but I guess we will see.

[houstonmacbro]

Lawlessness ... I Love It.

Just take the law into your own hands, even if that means breaking the law.

[JLWM8609]

Not to get off tangent, but what irked me the most was some of the Joe Horn supporters were waving Confederate battle flags. This is AMERICA, same folks would have a heart attack if someone waved a Mexican flag. If you like the Confederate States of America so much, why don't you go live there? Oh yeah, I forgot, the United States of America whupped them 140 years ago.

[RedScare]

Anyone watch the news tonight? Turns out that 'ole Joe stumbled onto something bigger than just a random break-in:

Link

So now we know that:

- In all likelihood these guys were indeed illegals.

- They probably knew exactly what they were going after (a bag of cash) when they went to that house.

- Joe's claims that they "came right at me" probably are plausible when considering these guys are "extremely violent."

- Quannel X is a douchebag criminal lover (with all apologies to Todd Graham).

I'm still not saying that Joe is entirely in the clear, but I now think there is no way in Hades that he will serve a minute of jail time, if charges are even brought. At worst he gets 12 months of probation and a slap on the wrist.

Let's look at these one at a time, shall we?

1) Yes, it is possible that they were here illegally.

2) No proof of that at all. The DPS has not even stated that these two were part of the "syndicate" that they were investigating. However, it IS likely that burglars suspected that there would be property in the house.

3) Again, DPS never said these two were part of the investigation, only that they may have purchased phony documents. Additionally, because "some of the suspects are violent", MOST of the suspects are not. This does not prove your assertion. In fact, it is IMplausible that a man holding a tire iron would charge a man holding a pump shotgun...at least in my family tree. I cannot speak for others' experiences.

4) Quannel X says you're a douchebag, too. (I just threw that out there because it is as childish as your statement).

While I am not surprised that Channel 11 would throw gas on a fire by making links that do not exist, I expect HAIFers to see through that stuff. Let the police report come out, so you can base your opinions on facts, not assumptions.

[cottonmather0]

Quannel X says you're a douchebag, too.

LOL. That is so totally not true, Quannel in all likelihood thinks I am a racist douchebag!

[JLWM8609]

Of course Quannel X doesn't condone their actions. What bugs me about Quannel X is that if the colors were reversed (white victims, black shooter) he wouldn't give a crap... and yet he claims to be someone who stands up against racism. I don't like racism in any way ... black on white... white on black... yellow on black... brown on yellow... etc. etc.

I know for a fact that Quanell has spoken against black on black crime repeatedly, often getting the perps to turn themselves in. The media just chooses to not give those stories as much coverage, if any at all as opposed to the Joe Horn case. This is sensational, water cooler talk, message board flaming news, to the media, a black guy killing another black guy is just "a normal day in da hood", a fender bender in the crime world, not newsworthy enough for that 5PM newscast Emmy!

[cottonmather0]

Quanell has spoken against black on black crime repeatedly

I don't think that was his point.

[Jeebus]

Fox26 posted a report with video from the protest yesterday:

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/Ne...mp;pageId=3.2.1

Sad to see the words/actions exchanged between the two parties.

I don't think it was fair to the rest of the residents of the neighborhood for Quannell 10 to drag his protest down their street. He should have held it in a public park nearby.

Clearly this guy is a race and media pimp. Very shameful to say the least.

[ricco67]

I know for a fact that Quanell has spoken against black on black crime repeatedly, often getting the perps to turn themselves in. The media just chooses to not give those stories as much coverage, if any at all as opposed to the Joe Horn case. This is sensational, water cooler talk, message board flaming news, to the media, a black guy killing another black guy is just "a normal day in da hood", a fender bender in the crime world, not newsworthy enough for that 5PM newscast Emmy!

That is probably the only thing he does that is positive. I've talked to a number of people in his "Community" that THEY think he's a joke. He refused to get involved with disputes that he would have an impact on. They seem to think to a man that unless it guarantees cameras and news time, he really won't do it.

I've paid attention to Mr. 10 since he first came onto the scene and he's lived down to my expectations.