METRORail Uptown Line

[RedScare]

Actually, I should correct my post. METRO DID design for 20 year projections. The success of the line is making those projections look LOW.Bach, downtown blocks are 250 feet long. The trains are 92 feet long. A 3 car set would stick into the cross streets. It is not the stations that are the problem, but the blocked cross streets.

[TheNiche]

It is far easier politically to renovate a highly successful system than it is to build from scratch to accomodate 20 year ridership projections...especially, when those projections were attacked so furiously in the first place. If the Red Line reaches such a capacity that headways are increased to its maximum of minutes, and that causes unacceptable congestion, then METRO will happily tunnel some sections, and the populace will happily support it. These issues are extremely relevant to the time when the decisions are made. What the populace will accept today (or in 2000) are very different from what they will acccept in 2020 or 2030.

Oh, I see. So what you're saying is that several hundred million dollars were spent on a line with intentional design flaws so that it'd cause people massive inconvenience in the future so that those people would support spending several hundred more million dollars to fix the mistakes intentionally committed in the first place? I can see how that would be politically expedient, but you'll forgive me if I denounce such practices and would advocate that any conspirator of that sort be imprisoned.

There are also many ways to address the problem. Currently, the Red Line carries 45,000 per day on 6 minute headways. Going to the maximum 3 minutes would double capacity to 90,000 daily (BTW, 45,000 daily is not even max capacity). Dumping the current 92 foot long trains for 80 footers would allow 3 car trainsets to run in Downtown, increasing capacity per car trainset.

Riders per day is not a measure of the capacity of a transit system. Riders per hour at peak hours is the most effective measure.

So what you're saying then, is that METRO purchased the wrong multi-million-dollar vehicles? My opinion of them is not improving.

As you stated in another thread, downtown is not impacted very much by the Red Line. Most downtown traffic runs north/south, as does the train. Increased headways may be manageable in downtown. Only those intersections where the congestion is unacceptable might need elevated or submerged track. Tweaks to a successful system would be acceptable and encouraged.

Increase the frequency downtown, and downtown will be impacted. Not as much as other areas, but it won't be pleasant for someone trying to surf the green lights that gets stopped and held over at Main every other attempt to cross it. But if you're correct and capacity can be increased if METRO just takes it upon themselves not to waste millions of dollars on the wrong rail vehicles, then I'd agree that downtown would be low on the priority list for subway service.

[Highway6]

But if you're correct and capacity can be increased if METRO just takes it upon themselves not to waste millions of dollars on the wrong rail vehicles, then I'd agree that downtown would be low on the priority list for subway service.

Existing vehicles move to one of the new lines where 3 of the bigger cars could be linked together with no negative impacts.

When new vehicles are purchased for new lines... include enough shorter cars to up the redline capacity to 3 car groupings.

No money wasted.

[RedScare]

I was going to respond, but I've grown really tired of internet hyperbole lately. I'll just be content with the fact that everyone else understands, and that you (Niche) choose to be intentionally ignorant.

Oh, this response also applies to musicman's obligatory chime in.

Have a nice day.

[wakester]

The Post Oak/Westhiemer intersection is really not that bad at rush hour (At least if you are on Post Oak). Actually Post Oak moves pretty good. The biggest backups are on San Felipe and Westhiemer and the loop. The 286 bus takes the same route as the Uptown line (at least from Richmond) and the only bottlenecks are West Alabama (because cars on West Alabama tend to block the intersection heading towards the Loop) and the access road from Post Oak to Memorial. The access road will be elevated so that will get rid of that bottleneck. Hopefully the fact that a train is coming down the middle of Post Oak will persuade West Alabama drivers to not block Post Oak.

[Highway6]

The Post Oak/Westhiemer intersection is really not that bad at rush hour (At least if you are on Post Oak). Actually Post Oak moves pretty good. The biggest backups are on San Felipe and Westhiemer and the loop. The 286 bus takes the same route as the Uptown line (at least from Richmond) and the only bottlenecks are West Alabama (because cars on West Alabama tend to block the intersection heading towards the Loop) and the access road from Post Oak to Memorial. The access road will be elevated so that will get rid of that bottleneck. Hopefully the fact that a train is coming down the middle of Post Oak will persuade West Alabama drivers to not block Post Oak.

This time of year.. people blocking intersections causing even further gridlock happens at every lighted intersection in the galleria on the weekends.

While I agree Westheimer/Post Oak isn't the worst.. i still think not having the rail cross at grade would be a wise choice at Richmond, Westheimer, and SanFelipe.

[TheNiche]

Existing vehicles move to one of the new lines where 3 of the bigger cars could be linked together with no negative impacts.

When new vehicles are purchased for new lines... include enough shorter cars to up the redline capacity to 3 car groupings.

No money wasted.

Is that what is planned, or what you suggest? I ask on account of that it makes sense, and therefore, METRO would seem incapable of doing it.

^See, Red, that's hyperbole.

Scheming politicians creating a problem to justify its fix--as I understood you to be explaining--are a conceivable problem that ought to be condemned, capacity issues ought to be dealt with where peak use is the chief concern, and METRO should've purchased the right tools to do the job in the first place.

^That's the truth of the matter as I perceive it.

[RedScare]

Your post speaks for itself, as does mine. You are intentionally misreading it to throw out your ideologic hyperbole. I will not respond to it.

Moving along...

[TheNiche]

Your post speaks for itself, as does mine. You are intentionally misreading it to throw out your ideologic hyperbole.

I have read and interpreted it correctly, incorporated it with my own analysis, and explained the gist of it. No hyperbole.

[swtsig]

- Post Oak Boulevard/Westpark

[roadrunner]

some updated info regarding the post oak line.</FONT></FONT>

So they won't have all 5 lines up by 2012. I never really believed that anyways.

[Highway6]

some updated info regarding the post oak line.

updated from where

[Pumapayam]

some updated info regarding the post oak line.

I agree, how did it slide from 2012 to 2014?

At least they will be doing some major updates.

Wide sidewalks, hopefully new trees to compliment the rail line.

Should be great to see the new Post Oak, but 6 years. . . sheesh!

[Pumapayam]

updated from where

I checked the Metro Solutions site, I saw something "Hot of the Press" dated 7/17/08, but nothing new, just the web chat from last week.

But I did find the Stakeholder Affairs Representative in charge of the Uptown Corridor, the office is not open yet though.

Donna Lane

I won't comment on her photo. . .

[swtsig]

updated from where

hopefully metro

I agree, how did it slide from 2012 to 2014?

At least they will be doing some major updates.

Wide sidewalks, hopefully new trees to compliment the rail line.

Should be great to see the new Post Oak, but 6 years. . . sheesh!

from what i've been told the post oak stations/line is going to look gorgeous... apparently the city is going all out for the uptown line, and rightfully so.

[lockmat]

apparently the city is going all out for the uptown line, and rightfully so.

As always. I'm expecting nothing less than greatness...or a Rodeo Drive impersonation.

[Pumapayam]

As always. I'm expecting nothing less than greatness...or a Rodeo Drive impersonation.

I never did like the chandeliers in glass boxes. Here is a photo I took last winter from Rodeo Drive.

Maybe they will have a design competition or make them similar to the current chrome theme.

[lockmat]

I never did like the chandeliers in glass boxes. Here is a photo I took last winter from Rodeo Drive.

Are you serious? I thought LA had more taste than that. That's tacky.

[desirous]

I believe bond financing for the Uptown Line isn't finalized yet. That could be part of the delay.

What's with the "Tollway Construction" -- what the heck does the Westpark Tollway have to do with rail?

Post Oak Blvd has a lot of potential. If development continues at its current pace, most of the strip malls will be gone or priced out.

[tierwestah]

from what i've been told the post oak stations/line is going to look gorgeous... apparently the city is going all out for the uptown line, and rightfully so.

Is it true that part of the line will tunnel into a subway around the uptown park area?

[crunchtastic]

Are you serious? I thought LA had more taste than that. That's tacky.

And dull. I have a better idea. Those boxes are big enough to fit a typical "I don't have an eating disorder" Beverly Hills LA starlet. In fact I bet you could get the starlet plus her ginormous $8,000 patent leather Dior purse. Just drill a couple of holes for air, good to go. At night, she could just point a large flashlight toward the street. Now that would say "Rodeo Drive".

[Trae]

Is it true that part of the line will tunnel into a subway around the uptown park area?

Yes. That's what some DEIS report (I don't know, I think that is what it's called) said. Check the first page. It was posted by RedScare.

And when do we get the first renderings for the line?

[roadrunner]

hopefully metro

from what i've been told the post oak stations/line is going to look gorgeous... apparently the city is going all out for the uptown line, and rightfully so.

Did the city go all out for the Red Line? I'm not saying it's unattractive, but I'm just trying to get an idea of what you mean by the city going all out.

And I'm guessing the East Side will have functional lines with no dress up.

[Trae]

The city and METRO had no outside funding for the Red Line. You know damn well they didn't go all out with it.

[lockmat]

Did the city go all out for the Red Line? I'm not saying it's unattractive, but I'm just trying to get an idea of what you mean by the city going all out.

And I'm guessing the East Side will have functional lines with no dress up.

shrubs, and the rails will be painted bright striped colors

[swtsig]

I believe bond financing for the Uptown Line isn't finalized yet. That could be part of the delay.

What's with the "Tollway Construction" -- what the heck does the Westpark Tollway have to do with rail?

Post Oak Blvd has a lot of potential. If development continues at its current pace, most of the strip malls will be gone or priced out.

the richmond line will divert onto the westpark tollway at cummins and the post oak line will connect to the westpark/richmond line at the intersection of westpark and post oak.... only reason westpark tollway is referenced.

Did the city go all out for the Red Line? I'm not saying it's unattractive, but I'm just trying to get an idea of what you mean by the city going all out.

And I'm guessing the East Side will have functional lines with no dress up.

i'm speaking strictly from an aesthetic perspective... i've been told the architectural design and landscaping for the post oak line is top notch, but i haven't personally seen it.

dont know about the east line, but i'd assume they wouldn't receive quite the attention to aesthetics as the post oak line would.

[Transit Nut]

I'm kind of curious why the stations are listed that way; normally they are named after the nearest cross street, not landmark. I wouldn't mind seeing the source.

Also, if the stations, landscaping, etc. are enhanced, most likely the majority of the money would come from Uptown Houston (the district/TIRZ), not the city.

[Pumapayam]

I'm kind of curious why the stations are listed that way; normally they are named after the nearest cross street, not landmark. I wouldn't mind seeing the source.

Also, if the stations, landscaping, etc. are enhanced, most likely the majority of the money would come from Uptown Houston (the district/TIRZ), not the city.

Canyon Cafe stop seems a bit odd, while the rest are okay.

[swtsig]

those aren't the actual station names, only where the stations will be relative to what's there now... the station names from north to south:

uptown park station

san felipe station

ambassador way station

guilford court station

westheimer station

richmond station

EDIT: there's also a Northwest Transit Center Station at the 610/I-10 intersection... my bad.

[Trae]

They should stick "The Galleria" onto the Westheimer station.