Turnberry Galleria Luxury High-Rise At 5048 Hidalgo St.

[sanman]

www.turnberrytowerhouston.com

You can click "skip" to skip the intro but it's nicely done.

Edited November 19, 2007 by sanman

[marc]

www.turnberrytowerhouston.com

You can click "skip" to skip the intro but it's nicely done.

Nice. Has construction started? And is there a definate completion date?

M.

[jmancuso]

$8 million is insane...unless you like to face freeways and the parking garages next door.

[sanman]

Nice. Has construction started? And is there a definate completion date?

M.

Construction should start late in the first quarter of 2008. Expected delivery is the first quarter of 2010 for a 24 month +/- build. This isn't exactly Turnberry's first rodeo as they've been in business for nearly 45 years. They tend to put a building up pretty quickly. They started Turnberry Ocean Colony in South Florida after Trump started a neighboring building and Turnberry delivered first.

Regarding $8million - it's for a three level residence on floors 32 - 34 with over 15,000 square feet and a private pool. Freeways and parking garages will hardly be the views. It's actually a pretty damn good deal considering other penthouses on the market and other penthouses that have sold in the city (ie: a shell penthouse at the Huntingon in 2001 for $5,000,000. That's right - SHELL - nothing but concrete and glass and it was nowhere near 15,000 square feet, more like 6,500 square feet with exclusive use of a very rough roof deck).

[lockmat]

What do you mean by shell?

Edited November 24, 2007 by lockmat

[strickn]

Only an enclosed space, not something with finished floor materials, interior walls, light fixtures, ready-to-use plumbing setup, or the like; much less furnishings.

What do you mean by shell?

[Pumapayam]

Nice. Has construction started? And is there a definate completion date?

M.

Fence is up, so it should very soon.

[sanman]

Fence is up, so it should very soon.

There's no fence on the site and no ground preparations have been made. No construction activity will begin until the first quarter of next year.

[liammclaren]

Another uninspired biege highrise. How exciting!

No kidding.

[Vertigo58]

No kidding.

Not to be a Grinch > , but you might change your mind once you take the tour of the interior in person.

Turnberry was recently discussed under topic Houston 2008.

http://www.turnberrytowerhouston.com/

[Pumapayam]

I was there today, and across the street, between the Empire and the shopping center on the corner of Sage and Hidalgo, they are putting a 2 story street scape of retail and cafes!

This is again, right across from the Turnberry, Nordstrom and the Parking garage right down Hidalgo!

There are photos on the sign, but I could not find the website to post.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Pumapayam

[mls1202]

I believe there is already a thread on the retail you are referring to (too lazy, however, to search). It is a renovation of the lower part of an existing parking garage.

[rbarz]

Went by the sales office. $2,000,000 will get you about 2300 SF on the 10th floor with a large balcony. The units come unfinished. You get a kitchen and both bathrooms finished. But everywhere else you get no flooring, no details, no paint, nada. Can't I get something in NYC or Chicago for that?

If you take a tour of the model it is quite amusing... you walk around remarking about the finishes and the agent showing you gets to respond in the same fashion every time, "That is not included"

It went like this:

Nice Floors, what are they? "Not Included"

nice fireplace. "Not Included"

nice detailing on the ceiling. "Not Included"

nice paint. is that ventian plaster? "Not Included" "Walls come with a smooth finish"

nice detailing on this wall. "Not Included"

nice closet. "Not Included"

The agent then explained to me how most highrises come unfinished. Correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was the opposite in Houston? At 2727 Kirby they don't care what you pick, they will install it. Soap Stone, crown molding, ipe... done, done, done. Others usually have a large range of things to pick like at the Mosiac.

I agree that the penthouse is probably not that bad a deal, but all of the other units are the same price per SF which makes them quite a bit overpriced....

[Vertigo58]

"Money is no object" to most that will be living there.

[marc]

True about those with money could affort it, BUT still, 2 ML seems pretty steep for an unfinished condo. in Houston....albeit nice. Not to dog my hometown, but H-town is no NY, Chi-Town or LA. Nor is it London or Paris. Those rates are par for the course there. BUT, in Houston. Hmmm. I would guess some pricing modification will occur when the units do not fill up so quickly.

[bkjones98]

When a person is buying an apartment for more than two-million dollars, they usually want to pick out all their own finishes--like importing marble from their native planet. I think the logic is that Turnberry could never chose a univeral finish, so just let the super-rich pick whatever they want.

[jdbaker]

True about those with money could affort it, BUT still, 2 ML seems pretty steep for an unfinished condo. in Houston....albeit nice. Not to dog my hometown, but H-town is no NY, Chi-Town or LA. Nor is it London or Paris. Those rates are par for the course there. BUT, in Houston. Hmmm. I would guess some pricing modification will occur when the units do not fill up so quickly.

It's difficult to understand why anyone would pay Turnberry's asking price when one could buy in an existing ultra-luxury building, such as the Huntington, for a fraction of that price.

[dcdude]

It's difficult to understand why anyone would pay Turnberry's asking price when one could buy in an existing ultra-luxury building, such as the Huntington, for a fraction of that price.

Actually, the Huntingdon was the same way when it was built. The owner bought the shell and was responsible for finishing it out.

[jdbaker]

Actually, the Huntingdon was the same way when it was built. The owner bought the shell and was responsible for finishing it out.

Apartments listed in the Huntington are currently priced in the $500 psf range, finished. Thus, even if one wanted to start from scratch, it would be much cheaper to buy something in the Huntington at $500 psf and gut it than it would to spend the $900 psf that Trunberry is asking.

[sanman]

Turnberry is not asking anywhere near $900 per square foot. It's really in the $500 - $600 per square foot range before terrace space and less than $500 per square foot after terrace space. It's $800,000 - $3,500,000 for the bulk of the building at 1,830 sq ft - over 7,500 sq ft after terraces. The two tower suites are over 15,000 sq ft each for $8,500,000 which is about $566 per square foot - quite a deal, if you've got the cash. Seeing as how all of the other developers factor in the terrace square footage, I included terrace space in the sq ft quotes above. Feel free to review the plans at www.turnberrytowerhouston.com

$2,000,000 will actually get you about 4,500 square feet, after the terrace. The model unit at the sales center is about 2,600 square feet, after terrace, and ranges from around $1,100,000 - $1,400,000. I don't know where the $2,000,000 number on the 10th floor came from but it is completely erroneous. The 10th floor model unit would cost about $1,200,000.

The Huntingdon was orginally sold as SHELL - not even "to the white" with plumbing stubbed out and sheetrock installed - it was simply concrete floor, concrete ceiling and exterior glass and it required a complete build out, including plumbing, electricity, etc. Turnberry simply does not install flooring and the walls are primed, ready for paint. It's hardly shell or even "to the white." Further, the Huntingdon is a 25 year old building with no amenities to speak of. Never mind the $.70 per sq ft (including terrace sq ft) a month in maintenance - more than TWICE what you would pay at Turnberry for monthly fees for a building with full amenities.

Edited December 12, 2007 by sanman

[JWW]

Turnberry is not asking anywhere near $900 per square foot. It's really in the $500 - $600 per square foot range before terrace space and less than $500 per square foot after terrace space. It's $800,000 - $3,500,000 for the bulk of the building at 1,830 sq ft - over 7,500 sq ft after terraces. The two tower suites are over 15,000 sq ft each for $8,500,000 which is about $566 per square foot - quite a deal, if you've got the cash. Seeing as how all of the other developers factor in the terrace square footage, I included terrace space in the sq ft quotes above. Feel free to review the plans at www.turnberrytowerhouston.com

$2,000,000 will actually get you about 4,500 square feet, after the terrace. The model unit at the sales center is about 2,600 square feet, after terrace, and ranges from around $1,100,000 - $1,400,000. I don't know where the $2,000,000 number on the 10th floor came from but it is completely erroneous. The 10th floor model unit would cost about $1,200,000.

The Huntingdon was orginally sold as SHELL - not even "to the white" with plumbing stubbed out and sheetrock installed - it was simply concrete floor, concrete ceiling and exterior glass and it required a complete build out, including plumbing, electricity, etc. Turnberry simply does not install flooring and the walls are primed, ready for paint. It's hardly shell or even "to the white." Further, the Huntingdon is a 25 year old building with no amenities to speak of. Never mind the $.70 per sq ft (including terrace sq ft) a month in maintenance - more than TWICE what you would pay at Turnberry for monthly fees for a building with full amenities.

Thanks for bringing us back to reality. Those psf #s seemed way off at 2mm; about as far off as some of the details of the 2727 Kirby post that just went up (the penthouse unit actually goes over 10k sq ft, etc.). I did not realize the Huntingdon was sold as 'true shell' - does anyone with high rise condo knowledge have an explanation about the difficulty/intricacy of doing plumbing, specifically, and electric after the building is 'completed'? Also, we should have a thread about maintenance fees for different buildings/living areas throughout Houston and other cities. 2727 Kirby, before the HOA first meets and probably raises the fee, is charging $.65 psf, which a 'lot' of people consider pretty high. I had no idea Turnberry is charging less than $.35 psf for maintenance. With Huntingdon charging $.70 psf (probably due to the age of building, erring on the side of higher monthly fees instead of frequent assessments, as well as keeping 'competitive' with newer buildings), maintenance fees really seem to range with just these 3 examples.

[Houston19514]

Actually, the "last available raw space is currently for sale in The Huntingdon. $3,999,000 for 8,864 square feet ($451 per square foot, and again, that is "raw" space.)

[sanman]

2727 Kirby, before the HOA first meets and probably raises the fee, is charging $.65 psf, which a 'lot' of people consider pretty high. I had no idea Turnberry is charging less than $.35 psf for maintenance. With Huntingdon charging $.70 psf (probably due to the age of building, erring on the side of higher monthly fees instead of frequent assessments, as well as keeping 'competitive' with newer buildings), maintenance fees really seem to range with just these 3 examples.

Turnberry actually charges about $.41 per square foot but it's only on the ENCLOSED square footage, so after factoring in the terraces (which are not constant, as there are several different sized terraces), the maintenance is around $.35 or $.36 per square foot. Don't forget that Turnberry Tower is a very large building with 184 units, so that accounts for a lot of the difference in the maintenance fees. $.65 per square foot on the overall square footage is relatively standard, as that is what the Huntingdon was charging until very recently and Montebello and Villa D'Este charge in the $.62 - $.65 range, as well.

Regarding plumbing, electrical, etc., at the Huntingdon, there is 14' between each slab, so all of the pipes, ducts, and wires are run in the subfloor, overhead and in the walls that are constructed. Since there is so much space on each floor, the ceiling heights are not affected due to drain locations, as I have seen many units at the Huntingdon with 11'+ ceilings. There have been some plumbing issues due to leaking into other units over the years in the building, though, as the wet walls are not restricted to certain areas as they are in most high rises. One of the restrictions on remodeling or new construction in that building is that the owner must install a computerized floor with moisture monitors in it in all wet areas.

Actually, the "last available raw space is currently for sale in The Huntingdon. $3,999,000 for 8,864 square feet ($451 per square foot, and again, that is "raw" space.)

That shell space is on one of the highest floors in the builidng, too - I believe it's on 32 and 34 is the penthouse level. Remember - 34N penthouse was sold as shell for $5,000,000 in 2001 and 34S sold for $7,000,000 and it was basically gutted and redone. Each of those spaces was under 6,000 square feet.

Even though there is only one existing large original shell space left at the Huntingdon, many of the older units are being sold either already gutted or to be gutted. 27S is one example of space in the building that was previously built out and then gutted before it was sold due to mold issues. I believe it sold in January 2005 for about $1,300,000 and it was about 7,000 sq ft. What a DEAL!!! There consistently continues to be quite a bit of construction in that building.

Edited December 13, 2007 by sanman

[dalparadise]

I worry about developers who want to put up condo towers with units that start around $1,000,000, but don't know how to market themselves very well. Turnberry doesn't even seem to know the market into which they are coming.

Their tower does seem luxurious, but their materials are terrible.

Points:

Their ad in the Playbill for the Houston Ballet has a typo. They need to inspire confidence that they pay attention to details when asking for millions of dollars from potential customers.

The Flash presentation on the site inexplicably opens with a couple of shots of cattle -- hardly the image I associate with high-rise living in a major city -- but exactly the image I associate with someone's perception of this town who has never been here. That may be fine for marketing to out-of-towners who, perhaps, share this perception. But, what about Houstonians who might be in the market? Do you really want to give the impression you know nothing about this city?

They go to the "everything's bigger in Texas" tired old routine. Sigh.

They use stock photography from the 80s to show what kind of ladies might live here. Seriously, I think the one in the silver dress was Kelly LeBrock from the Weird Science days. There's also one by the pool, where the model is sneering at the pool boy as if to say, "leave the towels, you insignificant piece of feces." It's pretty amusing how hard it's trying to show pretentious luxury, while I think the shot was actually meant to be comical or ironic in nature.

In the location tab, they acknowledge Galleria I,II and III being just a block away, but fail to point out that Galleria IV is right across the street! They show Nordstrom as just some anonymous building right next door to the site. Does the marketing team know their own site? Is it stronger to represent your location as a 5-minute walk away from The Galleria (with entry via a not very pedestrian-friendly area across busy streets and through massive parking garages, by the way) or as having access to the street level entrance to Nordstrom right outside your front door?

Looking at the Flash presentation, I'd assume Turnberry Tower was Williams Tower. They say it is "rising to the sky" with a shot of Williams. They offer its location as prime, with a shot of Williams. They circle Williams Tower from the air. I understand the limitations using stock photography puts on creativity, but again, it makes Turnberry seem like they don't know what they're talking about.

They represent Uptown as the place for the ballet and symphony, calling it the city's premiere entertainment district. Well, I was in The Galleria Friday evening and went to the ballet. With traffic and a stop at the Pulse machine, plus parking downtown, I was able to make the curtain by just 10 minutes, leaving 55 minutes before. Again, I don't think Turnberry knows where they are. Great shopping, yes. Entertainment? Culture? Performing arts? That's a different neighborhood.

These seem like small gripes, I'll agree. But, together, they paint a picture of a developer that's out of touch with the location and stereotypical of his view of Houston. In the past, that hasn't been a good sign for the success of business of any kind in this town.

I'd recommend they spend some more time here, or at least hire some local marketing experts to help them get it right, before perception becomes reality.

Edited March 2, 2008 by dalparadise

[LTAWACS]

Very good points Dal.

[Vertigo58]

Ditto on the advertising & promotion of this place. Had it not been for the business mixer I attend there about 3 months ago, I never would have known it was being built there. I still have the brochure which is nice, glossy and does use those several old Texas cliche's. Perhaps the consulting and Advertising people they hired should have done better research prior.

[Pumapayam]

For an urban highrise, using cattle was a stupid idea, and just plays up the stereotype.

www.turnberrytowerhouston.com

The Williams waterwall is featured as a focal point on the website as well.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Pumapayam

[ricco67]

That is a wonderful website,the only question I have....where is the service elevator?

[lockmat]

For an urban highrise, using cattle was a stupid idea, and just plays up the stereotype.

www.turnberrytowerhouston.com

The Williams waterwall is featured as a focal point on the website as well.

I think they were just trying to make it feel like Texas. I think the longhorn and the sunset is awesome. I liked from the first time I saw it. Then again, I'm not the millionaires they're selling to.

[Vertigo58]

For an urban highrise, using cattle was a stupid idea, and just plays up the stereotype.

Cattle, lol

You can take a tour of the model (If still there). Pretty impressive to bad its just a temp demo. The cattle can stay out on the balcony.