METRORail University Line

[Vertigo58]

Something like this would be the best thing for Houston. If LA can do it we can and their ground shakes. I know its been discussed a zillion times and $ is the main reason it hasn't happened. Just had to toss in. Peace!

[MidtownCoog]

man, that's fugly

NIMBY

[Pumapayam]

interesting meeting last night. METRO had some actual hired-gun experts that could explain things about noise/vibration/light etc enviro impacts that to date no METRO employee has been willing to talk about.rumors of the night: METRO still has a couple of under-the-table alignments it's considering along with the 3 "finalist" alignments for the U Line west of Main.

Like what, still going thru Afton Oaks!

man, that's fuglyNIMBY

They had something like that in Vegas with the Monorail, and it looked fine.

[ricco67]

Something like this would be the best thing for Houston. If LA can do it we can and their ground shakes. I know its been discussed a zillion times and $ is the main reason it hasn't happened. Just had to toss in. Peace!

They tried that in the past, but as a monorail and was totally opposed by a number of people going down that route. Afton Oaks, as you can imagine, was one of them. I was FOR the project at the time, but NOT as a Monorail. Especially the designed they had chosen at the time.

[Pumapayam]

They tried that in the past, but as a monorail and was totally opposed by a number of people going down that route. Afton Oaks, as you can imagine, was one of them. I was FOR the project at the time, but NOT as a Monorail. Especially the designed they had chosen at the time.

Monorail was in Kathy Whitmire's plan I believe. Then Bob Lanier killed it to fund the police department again.

[Vertigo58]

Monorail was in Kathy Whitmire's plan I believe. Then Bob Lanier killed it to fund the police department again.

and of course all of you know that there was one actually built as a prototype in Houston around 1959-61?

There were pics on haif a while back on some topic. (too lazy to dig it up) It looked kind of Buck Rogers 2000 but they had the idea and canned it. By now we would have been like Monorail futuristic, attract tourists, etc.

Don't care what any one says LA has it going on.

and it even goes underground! So what if the ground shakes every now and then it hasn't stopped them.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...l%3Den%26sa%3DN

[Furious Jam]

rumors of the night: METRO still has a couple of under-the-table alignments it's considering along with the 3 "finalist" alignments for the U Line west of Main.

I guess it's too much to hope that they would involve ramming the thing through Afton Oaks.

Seriously, I actually drove from the meeting to the Galleria last night, and the AO segment of Richmond is both underutilized and underdeveloped - "spacious" would be my word. I can't think of any logical reason not to run rail through there. That AO succeed in sending the rail line to the proverbial wrong side of the tracks is nothing less than a shameful triumph of class warfare.

[IHB2]

I forgot about last night's meeting until it was too late.

So hopefully I can make the one for the next one.

Did you pick up anything as far as sketches or anything? was there a fairly vocal group arguing against it?

the usual suspects, including me , were there arguing against all or parts of the 3 options.

METRO, as usual, had nothing new in the way of renderings to add to what we already knew about the 3 options, but the consultants had plenty to say about how the process can continue to be affected even after the FEIS, even after the construction starts.

here's a Cummins option update from John ??? the lead METRO dude for that part of the line - the elevation will go OVER the buildings on the south SWF service rd (Mattress Firm and Double Dave's Pizza and the strip bldgs they're in will not be razed according to him), then curve and drop to grade before Wesleyan in the ROW. that will necessitate RAISING (not burying) the already high high power lines in the Centerpoint easement that flanks the METRO ROW. oh yeah, and only one support piling in the SWF HOV for the elevated track, narrowing the HOV at that point to 10.25 feet from the current 20+ ft. engineers!!!

[Jax]

I guess it would be better for it to stay on Richmond then - which could work if it wasn't for that neighborhood in the way. I guess they have to compromise somehow. What's worse? Running a train through somebody's neighborhood or over a strip mall and under some gigantic power lines? Either way, I still think it's best to put the rail where the people are and where the people want to go.

[ricco67]

I guess it would be better for it to stay on Richmond then - which could work if it wasn't for that neighborhood in the way. I guess they have to compromise somehow. What's worse? Running a train through somebody's neighborhood or over a strip mall and under some gigantic power lines? Either way, I still think it's best to put the rail where the people are and where the people want to go.

There is always the chance that later on in the future, the line could be extended from there. It's not unheard of, y'know. I think it would be cool for a line to go all the way from BW8 on in on Richmond, meet the U-line on it's merge and then go as a subway as an express.

ah...at least I can dream.

[Trae]

If the Afton Oaks people are so worried about people "coming in" into their neighborhood, just don't put a stop there.

[TheNiche]

Either way, I still think it's best to put the rail where the people are and where the people want to go.

As Trae suggested, it probably wouldn't even be worth installing a stop; but not only because the residents wouldn't want it--because nobody wants to go to Afton Oaks and not enough people from Afton Oaks would ride it to justify stopping for them and wasting all the other riders' time. If there's no stop, then running a rail line through where the people are can only possibly have a deleterious effect on the neighborhood. After all, even METRO seems to be admitting now that some trees would have to be removed or wouldn't make it, that some people's yards would be taken by eminent domain, that there will be noise generated, that road lanes would've been narrowed, and clearly access through the medians for making left hand turns would be disrupted. ...never mind the disruption caused by construction; construction on Westpark would be far less impactful.

[Pumapayam]

As Trae suggested, it probably wouldn't even be worth installing a stop; but not only because the residents wouldn't want it--because nobody wants to go to Afton Oaks and not enough people from Afton Oaks would ride it to justify stopping for them and wasting all the other riders' time. If there's no stop, then running a rail line through where the people are can only possibly have a deleterious effect on the neighborhood. After all, even METRO seems to be admitting now that some trees would have to be removed or wouldn't make it, that some people's yards would be taken by eminent domain, that there will be noise generated, that road lanes would've been narrowed, and clearly access through the medians for making left hand turns would be disrupted. ...never mind the disruption caused by construction; construction on Westpark would be far less impactful.

They should elevate it.

They already had rendering for Greenway Plaza elevated, and they would have to do it above the railroad track going north south.

Just keep it elevated through Afton Oaks too.

[Vertigo58]

They should elevate it.

They already had rendering for Greenway Plaza elevated, and they would have to do it above the railroad track going north south.

Just keep it elevated through Afton Oaks too.

That's what I'm talking about people!

Just like the BART system in SFO (Bay Area Rapid Transit System)

http://www.bart.gov/

or the Monorail at Disney.

Houston always brags about being so state-of-the-art, cutting edge and modern well let's get with the program!

[Highway6]

That's what I'm talking about people!

Just like the BART system in SFO (Bay Area Rapid Transit System)

http://www.bart.gov/

or the Monorail at Disney.

Houston always brags about being so state-of-the-art, cutting edge and modern well let's get with the program!

Elevating a stretch of rail for a mile over a neighborhood just to save trees seems like a huge waste.

Plus.. You would still have support columns coming down and would still lose trees. The remaining row of trees would now look like they are under a parallel freeway overpass.

So not only a waste of money, but we'd be left with ugliness.... gee, great idea.

[VelvetJ]

but we'd be left with ugliness.... gee, great idea.

With all due respect, in a city where it's citizens have consistently voted down any form of zoning, and evidence of developers having years of free reign in the city is painfully obvious, Houstonians being concerned with ugliness can be seen as somewhat of a oxymoron. Besides, some support colums can be made to look halfway decent if the effort is made to do so.

[Vertigo58]

Besides, some support colums can be made to look halfway decent if the effort is made to do so.

Exactly! If theres a will theres a way!

Architects can incorporate art and or greenery to cover any ugliness. I bet I could draw up ideas to make the columns disappear or blend into landscape. If we all stayed positive it could work.

The auto & foot traffic below would be unaffected by the passing rail above. If Disney did it 50 years ago we can do it now.

Houston is lagging so far behind the rest of the country in progress. At least rail/mass transit wise. Like Lennon said...Give Peace a Chance!

[Jax]

I agree with the fact that Houston is getting behind - I wish Houston would do something that was years ahead of everywhere else as far as public transit goes besides highways. Do we even have any of the best roads/highways here, or are they just average for the USA?

[CDeb]

I agree with the fact that Houston is getting behind - I wish Houston would do something that was years ahead of everywhere else as far as public transit goes besides highways. Do we even have any of the best roads/highways here, or are they just average for the USA?

I guess you should define "best."

[musicman]

I agree with the fact that Houston is getting behind - I wish Houston would do something that was years ahead of everywhere else as far as public transit goes besides highways. Do we even have any of the best roads/highways here, or are they just average for the USA?

behind what? seems are HOV system is being studied by many other cities as a paradigm of success.

[Jax]

Getting behind in terms of public transit. At least we have a good HOV system I guess.

[musicman]

Getting behind in terms of public transit.

but in what areas specifically?

[Jax]

Houston has the least amount of rail based transit in any of the 4 largest cities in the country, no subway or rapid transit that doesn't need to stop for cars, and the bus system is pretty bad in terms of being on time, and having stopping frequently. I'd say Houston is behind Chicago, New York, San Francisco, LA, and many other US cities (as well as Canadian cities) in terms of public transit.

Montreal for example doesn't have as extensive of a subway as Toronto, or New York, but the busses stop frequently enough and are on time enough that you can rely on them. Maybe it's just me but I've had terrible luck with the busses in Houston.

[musicman]

Houston has the least amount of rail based transit in any of the 4 largest cities in the country, no subway or rapid transit that doesn't need to stop for cars, and the bus system is pretty bad in terms of being on time, and having stopping frequently. I'd say Houston is behind Chicago, New York, San Francisco, LA, and many other US cities (as well as Canadian cities) in terms of public transit.

if it solves our transportation woes i'm all for it. so rail is the solution? it is that simple?

[Trae]

Rail is a good solution. Dallas is building like 20 miles of light rail right now, while Houston is struggling to build one damn 13-mile stretch.

[musicman]

Rail is a good solution. Dallas is building like 20 miles of light rail right now, while Houston is struggling to build one damn 13-mile stretch.

Not sure if Dallas rail has lead to any solutions. last time i was there traffic was still a nightmare.

[Jax]

I'm not going to argue with you, but I think the better the transit options we have, the more people we will have taking public transit. If rail is more reliable or faster (or both) than busses (in my opinion, it is), I think more people to take public transit instead of driving.

While this might not decrease the number of cars on the road, it might stop that number from increasing substantially as our population grows in the next 50 years.

Imagine 50 years from now with no improvements in public transit. What are they going to do? Add 6 more lanes to Richmond? And Westheimer? And Montrose? ...

[Highway6]

With all due respect, in a city where it's citizens have consistently voted down any form of zoning, and evidence of developers having years of free reign in the city is painfully obvious, Houstonians being concerned with ugliness can be seen as somewhat of a oxymoron. Besides, some support colums can be made to look halfway decent if the effort is made to do so.

I agree.... i just question the "Go over the trees to save the trees" Attitude.

Whats the canopy on those Oaks... 30-40' ?

Most freeway overpasses are at what... 20-25' ?

Ya gotta build the thing over the canopy if you're gonna save the trees... ya cant just elevate it a little bit off the ground and go through the canopy.. kinda defeats the purpose... So, to save the trees... you're going to have a mile expanse running completely over the tree tops.

I question it because i dont think those that propose this actually stop to visualize a track running at that height, over the tree tops.

I can see elevating it to normal freeway overpass heights for short distances to avoid traffic, major streets, and the UP track..... but to elevate it nearly twice as high for a mile to protect some trees... doesnt make sense... thosebetter be some rare nearly extinct trees to justify that expense.

Either the trees go, or the track goes elsewhere... Makes zero sense to have track and a tree at the same point on the X Y plane and having to accomodate both by changing the Z of the track.

[musicman]

While this might not decrease the number of cars on the road, it might stop that number from increasing substantially as our population grows in the next 50 years.

that's a BIG might jax.

[T 2 THA C]

I think that the more mass Transit options we have the better. All we have now is bus or car, of course more people will take there car, but with more options not as many people would be inclined to take their cars. Also, what works for one person may not work for another person, so I think by expanding our options(HOV, LRT, GRT, BUSS ETC) will be in our better intrest.