METRORail University Line

[Ethanra]

It was TMC that did the study because they were concerned about their patients. It seems they've been requesting data from METRO and well, METRO hasn't responded so TMC went to the press with their study's results.

I'm aware of this but the press and individuals against rail make the issue into a serious problem when it is not. TMC stusy reported that their is a leak but did not contain facts saying it the leak is minimal and has zero effect on infrastructure and health. Very convient for the individuals against rail and our "turn anything into a big serious story" local press into an issue.

[Ethanra]

if Houston is to get a train it should be a real train not this LR Toy crap! that is really not much faster than driving it was.

This LR Toy Crap is ridden by 40,000 people a day to school, work and entertainment. If not for this train more busses and cars would be on the road. Before a city can have a "real Train" from outlying areas a strong infrastructure of "LR toy crap" needs to be placed around the core so when the individuals came in on "Real Trains" they can get to their point of destination. The main line is the first step and is a successful one.

I don't understand how people in your neighborhood complain about a quiet clean LR running down Richmond when the road already is full of potholes and cars blowing exhaust and noice into your neighborhood. The LR will help this problem. What are you guys going to do when Richmond needs more lanes added and more noice and exhaust is blown throughout your neighborhood?

[TheNiche]

But you use no gas and can go get as drunk as you want, without having to worry about driving home. LRT is so much better than BRT and driving (especially when the stop is not too far away from you, and you can get anywhere with it).

PARTY!!! YEEEAH!!!!!!

What is access to rail stations all about if not getting plastered!?

Edited August 22, 2007 by TheNiche

[Trae]

What is that?

[TheNiche]

This LR Toy Crap is ridden by 40,000 people a day to school, work and entertainment. If not for this train more busses and cars would be on the road. Before a city can have a "real Train" from outlying areas a strong infrastructure of "LR toy crap" needs to be placed around the core so when the individuals came in on "Real Trains" they can get to their point of destination.

40,000 people a day or 40,000 boardings a day? Big difference there, when you factor out all the round trips.

If not for this train, there'd be more road for cars and busses to be on.

"real Train" doesn't happen much anymore because Park & Ride busses paired with HOV lanes are cheap and effective, if not particularly glamorous.

I don't understand how people in your neighborhood complain about a quiet clean LR running down Richmond when the road already is full of potholes and cars blowing exhaust and noice into your neighborhood. The LR will help this problem. What are you guys going to do when Richmond needs more lanes added and more noice and exhaust is blown throughout your neighborhood?

Afton Oaks is no longer on the table for a whole host of very good reasons--none of which AftonAg was apparently able to grasp or articulate very well. He and the neighborhood were probably arguing the right thing for the public interest, but for entirely selfish or flawed reasons. In any event, debating it is not a worthy endeavor at this point.

[west20th]

What is that?

RR Museum in Galveston. Neat place.

[TheNiche]

What is that?

It is the Galveston Railroad Museum. I attended a wedding there once. There were a lot of really plastered people in attendance, although no alcohol was served.

[Trae]

40,000 people a day or 40,000 boardings a day? Big difference there, when you factor out all the round trips.

If not for this train, there'd be more road for cars and busses to be on.

"real Train" doesn't happen much anymore because Park & Ride busses paired with HOV lanes are cheap and effective, if not particularly glamorous.

Uh, that is basically what every transit agency uses. Houston is no different.

[TheNiche]

Uh, that is basically what every transit agency uses. Houston is no different.

Yes, that is what transit agencies tend to say, and that is also slightly disingenuous, worded to make it seem as though their system has that many individual people that use it as opposed to there being that many origin/destination trips that were taken. It seems obvious to someone thinking about it, but for a press release designed to try and impress a political constituency, the aim is to discourage that kind of thought process, instead providing a single large number with language that makes it seem like a lot and very little else to substantiate it or to flesh out the true return on the public's investment.

Standard Operating Proceedure.

[wakester]

40,000 people a day or 40,000 boardings a day? Big difference there, when you factor out all the round trips.

So if I board on one end and then return that is two boardings and two less car trips. Coming/going.

People that argue that we should just use buses are obviously not bus riders. Have you ever ridden a crosstown bus. They are brutal, stopping every block or so. Waiting for people to run there dollar or transfer 5 times until it takes it. Now compare that to a LRT. The University line is going to shave like 40 minutes off the trip. Plus the time you do spend traveling is a lot nicer.

[musicman]

Plus the time you do spend traveling is a lot nicer.

Last time i rode was about 2 months ago and i commented on the urine smell in the vehicle i was on. the cloth seat material isn't being cleaned. Rank.

Edited August 23, 2007 by musicman

[Guest Marty]

Last time i rode was about 2 months ago and i commented on the urine smell in the vehicle i was on. the cloth seat material isn't being cleaned. Rank.

Cloth seats? They should use a material that is easier and cheaper to clean.

[ricco67]

But it may have something to do with "built properly". Right now all of the political hucksters are touting the "Green" solutions, and carbon foot print etc, etc, so it's suddenly okay for METRO to leak electricity into the ground? Read the word electricity - think energy - wasted. Just one more bad mark for METRO in my opinion. I don't believe I equated leaking current with ridership or conveinence or anything else - just METRO's Quality Standard.

Then as an "educated" engineer (is that what you do, I don't think we've discussed it), you should be aware that Leaking Electricity is very common and isn't exclusive to LRT. Editor mentioned how there are significant problems in chicago from lamposts, if I remember correctly. There are documented cases in New York where dogs have been fried walking on manhole covers.

Ricco - you have become quite pompous in my absence. Reading the thread properly should allow you to answer a question that is relevent to what you're answering to. I am educated - but I don't have the first clue what you are attempting to say in sentence above. What the heck do you mean by "read the thread properly" is that to mean I should read it and then agree with your assessment? sorry - "Nah gonna duit"

Well, I may be a bit pompus sounding at times, but *I* don't have a surrname to add to the word "pompus" behind MY title.

Nice to know you take me so literally, what i meant to type was that you should re read my post and type it accordingly instead of taking little snippets out of it to fit your view and/or definition.

starting to sound like that guy over at Actionamerica.org. Oh yeah, he pretty much gave up the Light rail fight since he hasn't updated his site or blog (bog?) in forever.

[AftonAg]

This LR Toy Crap is ridden by 40,000 people a day to school, work and entertainment. If not for this train more busses and cars would be on the road. Before a city can have a "real Train" from outlying areas a strong infrastructure of "LR toy crap" needs to be placed around the core so when the individuals came in on "Real Trains" they can get to their point of destination. The main line is the first step and is a successful one.

I don't understand how people in your neighborhood complain about a quiet clean LR running down Richmond when the road already is full of potholes and cars blowing exhaust and noice into your neighborhood. The LR will help this problem. What are you guys going to do when Richmond needs more lanes added and more noice and exhaust is blown throughout your neighborhood?

The issues that my neighborhood and I have with the "Railroading of Richmond" are well documented in the media and on this forum. The Main Street line does not split any neighborhoods that are surrounded on two sides by freeways, on a third side by a street as busy as Westheimer @ the Galleria. If the rail was constructed on Richmond egress and ingress to our neighborhood would be next to impossible. Drivers would intentionally avoid Richmond so that they wouldn't have to deal with the train, which would increase traffic on Westheimer, and cut through traffic in a neighborhood with a demographic that is changing to younger families with kids. How many more years do we need to wait for the businesses to come back to Main? Keep in mind that the coalition against Rail on Richmond also includes many, many businesses on Richmond, not just Afton Oaks.

[Trae]

Baloney. Westheimer doesn't cut through your neighborhood. I also doubt you will see many more people cutting through the neighborhood when the LRT goes through, from now. If there is no stop in Afton Oaks, how will that "bad" people go into AG? Also, the streets won't be cut off. I am sure there would be a median opening there.

[TheNiche]

So if I board on one end and then return that is two boardings and two less car trips. Coming/going.

That is right, and it is my point. But when a transit agency cites ridership in terms of people instead of boardings or trips, it may be construed by many people to mean something that it doesn't.

People that argue that we should just use buses are obviously not bus riders. Have you ever ridden a crosstown bus. They are brutal, stopping every block or so. Waiting for people to run there dollar or transfer 5 times until it takes it. Now compare that to a LRT. The University line is going to shave like 40 minutes off the trip. Plus the time you do spend traveling is a lot nicer.

I would agree that express/signature bus routes, better vehicles, pull-ins where busses can get out of the way of traffic when they stop, and ticket machines at the bus stops rather than on the bus would all go a long way toward increasing the efficiency of the bus system, all without sacrificing the high degree of flexibility that bus systems have in that they can be rerouted to adapt to changing concentrations of people and jobs over time. In contrast, LRT or BRT have a fixed route and in order to justify their federal funding with high ridership, many bus routes are rerouted or eliminated, creating a greater number of transfers, and in many cases adding to the users' total trip times.

[Trae]

Who cares if it adds an extra ten minutes, or so? To me, it would be a lot more relaxing to come out of my apartment, or condo tower, and walk to the LRT stop for the train (I just have to time it right). I would rather that, than having to go and get my car out of an parking garage, come out and work my way into work (first having to pay for parking per hour, which is expensive in Downtown).

[TheNiche]

Baloney. Westheimer doesn't cut through your neighborhood. I also doubt you will see many more people cutting through the neighborhood when the LRT goes through, from now. If there is no stop in Afton Oaks, how will that "bad" people go into AG? Also, the streets won't be cut off. I am sure there would be a median opening there.

No, he didn't say that Westheimer cuts through the neighborhood (although it does form a northern boundary). He's talking about drivers that use neighborhood streets to cut between Richmond and Westheimer to try and avoid the West Loop congestion. He also didn't say anything (this time) about "bad people". And in all likelihood, streets would be cut off or in some way restricted, but since METRO never got very far in planning for this routing, there is no way to be sure one way or another.

[musicman]

I also doubt you will see many more people cutting through the neighborhood when the LRT goes through, from now.

It's not going through Afton Oaks.

Also, the streets won't be cut off. I am sure there would be a median opening there.

Do you have a link to the engineering drawings we can look at?

[CDeb]

The issues that my neighborhood and I have with the "Railroading of Richmond" are well documented in the media and on this forum. The Main Street line does not split any neighborhoods that are surrounded on two sides by freeways, on a third side by a street as busy as Westheimer @ the Galleria. If the rail was constructed on Richmond egress and ingress to our neighborhood would be next to impossible. Drivers would intentionally avoid Richmond so that they wouldn't have to deal with the train, which would increase traffic on Westheimer, and cut through traffic in a neighborhood with a demographic that is changing to younger families with kids. How many more years do we need to wait for the businesses to come back to Main? Keep in mind that the coalition against Rail on Richmond also includes many, many businesses on Richmond, not just Afton Oaks.

It's not going through Afton Oaks.

[Jax]

You mentioned several advantages of buses, but I think you forgot a few things.

Keep in mind that transfers between busses here in Houston can take up to hours. Yes, I've waited an hour for a bus transfer before. But I've never waited more than 5-10 minutes for a transfer from a bus to light rail. When planning a trip, I always try to maximize the light rail usage because it's amazing how much more reliable it is than busses.

Busses here are often late, sometimes they don't show up at all, or the drivers "forgets" to stop at a bus stop because he's trying to make up for lost time. And if you miss a buss, you may have to wait 30 minutes or more for the next one. Not so with light rail.

I used to take the bus from Dunlavy and Bissonnet to Kirby and Bissonnet and walk to the Bally Fitness in the Village. When I was done, unless I was lucky enough to be there at the right time, it would usually be faster to walk home (30-45 minutes) than to wait for the bus. 90% of the time this was true.

Now that I live on the light rail, I can go to a few places (downtown, midtown, or the medical center) and go home whenever I feel like it. There's never a long wait for a train.

[musicman]

Who cares if it adds an extra ten minutes, or so? To me, it would be a lot more relaxing to come out of my apartment, or condo tower, and walk to the LRT stop for the train (I just have to time it right). I would rather that, than having to go and get my car out of an parking garage, come out and work my way into work (first having to pay for parking per hour, which is expensive in Downtown).

so you worry about paying for parking downtown, yet have no concern for expensive property prices along richmond? happy bd btw.

It's not going through Afton Oaks.

cause of aftonag's (and many others) hard work and diligence. Edited August 23, 2007 by musicman

[Trae]

so you worry about paying for parking downtown, yet have no concern for expensive property prices along richmond? happy bd btw.

cause of aftonag's (and many others) hard work and diligence.

Afton Oaks propoerty prices will rise with the LRT. The areas around Dallas' [expansive] light rail property prices rose, too, so the same would most likely happen in AO.

And thank you.

[TheNiche]

You mentioned several advantages of buses, but I think you forgot a few things.

Keep in mind that transfers between busses here in Houston can take up to hours. Yes, I've waited an hour for a bus transfer before. But I've never waited more than 5-10 minutes for a transfer from a bus to light rail. When planning a trip, I always try to maximize the light rail usage because it's amazing how much more reliable it is than busses.

Busses here are often late, sometimes they don't show up at all, or the drivers "forgets" to stop at a bus stop because he's trying to make up for lost time. And if you miss a buss, you may have to wait 30 minutes or more for the next one. Not so with light rail.

I used to take the bus from Dunlavy and Bissonnet to Kirby and Bissonnet and walk to the Bally Fitness in the Village. When I was done, unless I was lucky enough to be there at the right time, it would usually be faster to walk home (30-45 minutes) than to wait for the bus. 90% of the time this was true.

Now that I live on the light rail, I can go to a few places (downtown, midtown, or the medical center) and go home whenever I feel like it. There's never a long wait for a train.

If an origin or destination is along the LRT (as in your case), it isn't that much of a big deal. A minor inconvenience at worst, reasonably significant convenience at best. If the LRT is used as an intermediate leg of a longer trip between origins and destinations served by busses, then the extra transfers involved in that can create a transit hell for many riders...especially those without the means to live along it or that don't work the office jobs that it serves.

And my most damning criticisms of LRT are the opportunity costs. Think of how much better the bus systems could be if that money had been spent there--and the impacts would be felt over a much wider geographic area.

[Jax]

I don't think there are a lot of bus routes that would be interrupted by the light rail. Most people prefer to get on the train to make the last leg of their trip from wheeler to downtown, I don't think that is a huge inconvenience, especially with the frequency of the trains.

If you were used to going directly from Southwest Houston to Northwest Houston direct by bus and you had to get on the train to downtown and then make a transfer I could see that being sort of annoying, but I don't think that's a trip that a majority of commuters make. If you were going from Southwest Houston to downtown and you had to make the last leg of the trip by metro, it wouldn't affect you too much.

The other point of what I was trying to say was that a fairly simple one shot 2 mile bus trip could be hell for the return trip (walking 2 miles was generally quicker than waiting for the bus). I can see this being the same for anybody traveling between uptown / Greenway and downtown by bus. Now imagine if you could take the train between uptown/Greenway and downtown. It would turn a trip that was virtually impossible to take by public transit (unless you were desperate) to a trip that would be convenient to take by public transit. I could see more people wanting to live downtown if they could take the train to the galleria to shop. I could see more people who live along the transit corridor taking the train to their jobs, who otherwise wouldn't take the bus.

[musicman]

Afton Oaks propoerty prices will rise with the LRT. The areas around Dallas' [expansive] light rail property prices rose, too, so the same would most likely happen in AO.And thank you.

your example .....Who cares if it adds an extra ten minutes, or so? To me, it would be a lot more relaxing to come out of my apartment, or condo tower, and walk to the LRT stop for the train (I just have to time it right). I would rather that, than having to go and get my car out of an parking garage, come out and work my way into work (first having to pay for parking per hour, which is expensive in Downtown).so YOU are worried about downtown parking prices......and YET NOT WORRIED about expensive housing along richmond? doesn't make sense is what i'm saying.

I used to take the bus from Dunlavy and Bissonnet to Kirby and Bissonnet and walk to the Bally Fitness in the Village. When I was done, unless I was lucky enough to be there at the right time, it would usually be faster to walk home (30-45 minutes) than to wait for the bus. 90% of the time this was true.Now that I live on the light rail, I can go to a few places (downtown, midtown, or the medical center) and go home whenever I feel like it. There's never a long wait for a train.

so you take the bus to exercise? hmmmm I would invest in a bike.

so if you "feel like" going home at 3am, what do you do?

Edited August 23, 2007 by musicman

[Jax]

Since that point I've gotten a bike. I don't do that anymore, but when I first moved to Houston I didn't live near the red line, and I didn't have the time to walk 45 minutes to the gym and 45 minutes back every day. I thought the bus would make it more convenient but it didn't. Sorry if that sounds bad or lazy or whatever, but going to a gym does have it's advantages to exercising in the heat and humidity, especially when you just moved to Houston from Canada. My point is I gave up on that plan because the bus system didn't work well enough for me.

I don't stay up until 3 am so I didn't even have to worry about what to do after the metro rail stops running.

[AftonAg]

Baloney. Westheimer doesn't cut through your neighborhood. I also doubt you will see many more people cutting through the neighborhood when the LRT goes through, from now. If there is no stop in Afton Oaks, how will that "bad" people go into AG? Also, the streets won't be cut off. I am sure there would be a median opening there.

Trae You shouldn't be smoking that crap this early in the day.

I didn't say that Westheimer cut through Afton Oaks, I said that Westheimer was a boundary on one side, and that we had freeways on two other sides (610 to the West and 59 to the South).

If there is no stop in Afton Oaks, how will that "bad" people go into AG? Also, the streets won't be cut off.

Please explain to me what in the hell you are trying to say with this collection of words and punctuation.

Regarding the ingress and egress it is already difficult to get out of Afton Oaks onto Richmond, especially Eastbound Richmond during peak hours, so let's add a train flying through the intersection every three minutes and see how that helps the ingress/egress situation. Even a caveman could understand that.

[AftonAg]

It's not going through Afton Oaks.

yes I know that is the current configuration but with Metro they may decide to change it once construction starts - after some of the other crap they have pulled how could anyone think they are trying to do what is right for Houston - I have said too many times to count that the anti rail coalition is more than just Afton Oaks but y'all just don't get that - the businesses helped keep the rail from going through Afton Oaks, and AO is still commited to keeping the rail off of Richmond and on Westpark - that was the route approved by the electorate you know - "The Westpark Corridor" remember that?

Afton Oaks propoerty prices will rise with the LRT. The areas around Dallas' [expansive] light rail property prices rose, too, so the same would most likely happen in AO.And thank you.

Trae -Please provide some relevant evidence that the LRT will cause the property values in AO to rise. In Dallas those property values rose because of retail developments, there is absolutely no evidence that the rail had anything to do with the property values in Dallas going up.

[CDeb]

yes I know that is the current configuration but with Metro they may decide to change it once construction starts

Sure, they COULD decide to do that. But I can say with near certainty that such a route isn't being studied AT ALL and to change the route to include Richmond west of Cummins would require yet ANOTHER study. At this point, METRO just wants to get the rails in the ground. Trust me, your neighborhood is so far off the table, it's not even in the dining room.

that was the route approved by the electorate you know - "The Westpark Corridor" remember that?

Please. You're too smart to actually still believe in that, so stop trying to sell it here.