METRORail University Line

[AftonAg]

Sure, they COULD decide to do that. But I can say with near certainty that such a route isn't being studied AT ALL and to change the route to include Richmond west of Cummins would require yet ANOTHER study. At this point, METRO just wants to get the rails in the ground. Trust me, your neighborhood is so far off the table, it's not even in the dining room.

Please. You're too smart to actually still believe in that, so stop trying to sell it here.

Thank you for the compliment - I referred to the ballot language for a reason - to demonstrate that METRO is not above board and honest in their dealings with Houstonians. The anti rail on Richmond coalition is still active, and still against placing rail anywhere on Richmond - You will hear more from us in the very near future regarding the current configuration for the University line.

I recall being chastised severely for stating that if the rail ran through Afton Oaks and there was a stop nearby it would bring an undesirable element to our neighborhood . . . I was also chastised for a comment I made regarding people that had had too much too drink getting off the rail at an AO stop and creating a problem . . . . In browsing some of the recent posts today I saw one where someone mentioned the seats smelling like urine . . . . there was another post that mentioned that another plus for rail was that you could get really drunk and not have to worry about a DUI . . . . given those two posts I rest my case on the undesirable element comment. While an intoxicated train rider wouldn't get a DUI they might get arrested for Public Intoxication. I hope that you are right and the rail does not go through AO - but then I hope it doesn't get put on Richmond anywhere east of Beltway 8.

[Highway6]

The anti rail on Richmond coalition is still active, and still against placing rail anywhere on Richmond

You hardly had a big presence at the Metro meeting last week.. I saw a few familiar faces from your group, and a few pins.. but there was nowhere near the organized vocal anti-richmond presence that there has been in meetings past.

Nor have you been as vocal on here since through Afton Oaks was taken off the table... you only show up in brief spurts now.. not that I mind.

[Jax]

Why put the rail on Westpark when more people live and work on Richmond, and there are more entertainment options? Basically more reasons to use the rail if it is on Richmond than on Westpark You don't want them to build something that won't be used do you? Now that would be a waste.

I can (sort of) understand the Afton Oaks argument and I think the Cummins route is a good compromise, but why try to keep rail off of Richmond altogether? That comment alone decreases your credibility to me. Why don't you believe in compromise?

The best way to handle this is to study the issue and put the rail where it will be best used and try to inconvenience as few people as possible (the Cumins route), not insist that it be built on a street because the name happens to correspond with the name of the corridor on the ballot?

That would be like saying the "University Line" has to go up University Blvd.

[musicman]

Since that point I've gotten a bike. I don't do that anymore, but when I first moved to Houston I didn't live near the red line, and I didn't have the time to walk 45 minutes to the gym and 45 minutes back every day. I thought the bus would make it more convenient but it didn't. Sorry if that sounds bad or lazy or whatever, but going to a gym does have it's advantages to exercising in the heat and humidity, especially when you just moved to Houston from Canada. My point is I gave up on that plan because the bus system didn't work well enough for me.

so how will the new line help your trek to the gym?

[Jax]

so how will the new line help your trek to the gym?

You just don't seem to get it, do you? Or are you just trying to annoy me?

It doesn't have to help my trip to the gym. That was an example of how the bus system doesn't work for a simple trip. And my point is, if it doesn't work for a simple trip, it doesn't work for a longer trip such as a commute to the Galleria (it doesn't have to be the galleria mind you, that is just an example. Other examples could be downtown, Greenway plaza, a movie theater, a school etc..).

If my destination (gym or work or downtown or school or whatever... do I really need to state all of these examples every time for you to see it's not just the gym?) is on the metro rail, it's much more convenient and it's a practical system for anybody. The bus system is only practical if you are desperate and have no other means of transportation.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Jax

[musicman]

The best way to handle this is to study the issue and put the rail where it will be best used and try to inconvenience as few people as possible (the Cumins route), not insist that it be built on a street because the name happens to correspond with the name of the corridor on the ballot?

That would be like saying the "University Line" has to go up University Blvd.

The university line as it is proposed currently, wasn't on the ballot either. there was a line from main (wheeler) westward and one from downtown to the universities. but there wasn't one from the universities to the wheeler station. do you approve of building something that wasn't on the ballot at all? would this make you wonder about how much planning METRO put into developing a REAL plan?

[Jax]

If it makes more sense I don't have a problem connecting the universities to wheeler rather than downtown. I might have a problem if they built something completely different, like having a line that ran from downtown to the 5th Ward when a line was on the ballot that would connect the universities to downtown.

What is your opinion on this musicman? I don't often hear your opinion on any of the issues we discuss. You just seem to criticize others.

[musicman]

If it makes more sense I don't have a problem connecting the universities to wheeler rather than downtown. I might have a problem if they built something completely different, like having a line that ran from downtown to the 5th Ward when a line was on the ballot that would connect the universities to downtown.

What is your opinion on this musicman? I don't often hear your opinion on any of the issues we discuss. You just seem to criticize others.

well...if i voted for an 800 million bond program i sure wouldn't want the county to issue 1 billion worth of bonds. I think misleading voters is a negative and that's why METRO has been struggling since. there were a lot of promises and it will be difficult to keep them. not sure i've criticized you, but rather am questioning.

[Jax]

Ok question and criticize (in other threads too).

So what is your opinion? Should they build it on Westpark just because the ballot said "Westpark Corridor"? Should they connect U of H to downtown rather than Wheeler just because that was the earlier plan? Or should they not build it at all? or do you have a better idea for the alignments?

I bet somebody at Metro is kicking themselves now for putting "Westpark Corridor" on the ballot, but unfortunately there's no way to go back in time and change it. How should we move forwards?

[musicman]

You just don't seem to get it, do you? Or are you just trying to annoy me?

It doesn't have to help my trip to the gym. That was an example of how the bus system doesn't work for a simple trip. And my point is, if it doesn't work for a simple trip, it doesn't work for a longer trip such as a commute to the Galleria (it doesn't have to be the galleria mind you, that is just an example. Other examples could be downtown, Greenway plaza, a movie theater, a school etc..).

If my destination (gym or work or downtown or school or whatever... do I really need to state all of these examples every time for you to see it's not just the gym?) is on the metro rail, it's much more convenient and it's a practical system for anybody. The bus system is only practical if you are desperate and have no other means of transportation.

i'm not sure i agree that the bus system doesn't work for a simple trip or the location you chose to live makes it not work is all i'm saying. it is all about compromise. Do you agree?

the rail is much more convenient for YOU because you chose to live there. for most houstonians, it isn't convenient and practical, because they don't live close.

[Trae]

Trae You shouldn't be smoking that crap this early in the day.

I didn't say that Westheimer cut through Afton Oaks, I said that Westheimer was a boundary on one side, and that we had freeways on two other sides (610 to the West and 59 to the South).

If there is no stop in Afton Oaks, how will that "bad" people go into AG? Also, the streets won't be cut off.

Please explain to me what in the hell you are trying to say with this collection of words and punctuation.

Regarding the ingress and egress it is already difficult to get out of Afton Oaks onto Richmond, especially Eastbound Richmond during peak hours, so let's add a train flying through the intersection every three minutes and see how that helps the ingress/egress situation. Even a caveman could understand that.

It's my birthday.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Trae

[Jax]

i'm not sure i agree that the bus system doesn't work for a simple trip or the location you chose to live makes it not work is all i'm saying. it is all about compromise. Do you agree?

the rail is much more convenient for YOU because you chose to live there. for most houstonians, it isn't convenient and practical, because they don't live close.

I agree that compromise is a good thing.

I agree with you that it isn't convenient or practical for somebody who lives nowhere near the metro rail, but for those people who do, it's great. You can't not build it just because most people live outside the loop. It has to start somewhere, and if it started in Southwest Houston there wouldn't be much of a destination. So it makes sense to me to start it near downtown and the medical center,where people will use it and expand outwards towards the galleria and U of H, and then continue expanding. Each time they expand the system, it will become convenient to more Houstonians, and with every passing year, more people will chose to live closer to it.

You still didn't answer my question on what you think they should do..

Edited August 23, 2007 by Jax

[musicman]

So what is your opinion? Should they build it on Westpark just because the ballot said "Westpark Corridor"? Should they connect U of H to downtown rather than Wheeler just because that was the earlier plan? Or should they not build it at all? or do you have a better idea for the alignments?

I bet somebody at Metro is kicking themselves now for putting "Westpark Corridor" on the ballot, but unfortunately there's no way to go back in time and change it. How should we move forwards?

Honesty is one thing that would help METRO. TMC had to do a study to get data regarding leaking current into the TMC complex because METRO refused to give them data. If you managed one of the hospitals, how would METRO's response (or lack of) make you feel? I know if i was in charge, i sure would want to know whether the current is affecting the equipment (life support for instance) because lives are involved.

METRO proposed quite a few commuter rail lines but yet didn't talk to the owner of at least one line (UP) to determine whether it was even feasible til this yr (from the way UP has described it) and the vote was in 2003. was putting it on the ballot misleading the public?

so as not to rehash too much, my big problem with METRO and LRT is that their designs are not innovative. they are barebone minimum which in the end results in additional traffic problems that they should help be alleviating.

[Jax]

You didn't answer my question.

And as far as I understand, the leaking current isn't doing any damage besides costing Metro money. Otherwise the hospitals would be all over it! If there was even the slightest chance that life support systems were breaking down, something would have already been done about it.

[musicman]

I agree with you that it isn't convenient or practical for somebody who lives nowhere near the metro rail, but for those people who do, it's great. You can't not build it just because most people live outside the loop. It has to start somewhere, and if it started in Southwest Houston there wouldn't be much of a destination. So it makes sense to me to start it near downtown and the medical center,where people will use it and expand outwards towards the galleria and U of H, and then continue expanding. Each time they expand the system, it will become convenient to more Houstonians, and with every passing year, more people will chose to live closer to it.

You still didn't answer my question on what you think they should do..

i was working on it but kept response simple because it has been rehashed over and over.

i agree it has to start somewhere however for me, i would have approached it in a different manner. i would use it more as an express type setup where station placement is done by optimization so that travel times result in time savings. i don't think it should be run as a bus replacement type setup.

[musicman]

You didn't answer my question.

And as far as I understand, the leaking current isn't doing any damage besides costing Metro money. Otherwise the hospitals would be all over it! If there was even the slightest chance that life support systems were breaking down, something would have already been done about it.

earlier in this thread i stated specific instances of how i'd do it differently. PM me and i'll copy the posts i can find for you.

again, if you were in charge of the hospital, an answer like And as far as I understand, the leaking current isn't doing any damage besides costing Metro money sure wouldnt sit well if a patient was inquiring. TMC had to spend money to setup a system to take various readings to provide information because METRO refused to. i kind of chuckled at your last sentence. So why do you believe TMC spent the money to have the study done and why have they setup permanent monitors to record current data? do you think the party responsible should correct the concern or should the TMC have to resolve the situation? Or do you see it as a problem?

Edited August 23, 2007 by musicman

[Jax]

I agree that Metro should step up and look into the issue, but it doesn't have much bearing on the alignment of the university line, in my opinion.

I don't know much about this issue, but my point is that if lives were at risk, the TMC hospitals would be doing a lot more to find a solution to this issue quickly. I read that they setup equipment, collected data, and concluded that it was not a major issue. I am positive that if their conclusion lead them to believe patients would be at risk, they would be doing something about it. There would be lawsuits and a lot more media coverage. Patients would have already been moved to other hospitals.

I thought Metro and the TMC had a pretty good relationship, so this surprises me. There is obviously a lot more to this issue that we know.

I'm not in charge of the hospitals and that's why I can say "as far as I know...". My point is the people in charge of the hospitals must be 100% sure that this isn't a safety issue, or else they would have made more drastic decisions by now.

From a Chron article on the leaks:

Meanwhile, the Metropolitan Transit Authority is continuing its own tests and has plans for monitoring stations where its tracks pass under Texas Department of Transportation overpasses at the Pierce Elevated, Southwest Freeway and West Loop.

Metro officials say the current exceeds accepted standards and the terms of its contract with Siemens Transportation Systems, which built the tracks and trains and is also working on the problem.

Metro also says the leak amounts to less than what a nine-volt battery discharges in a day and poses no danger to people, buildings on the route, or rail service.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Jax

[musicman]

My point is the people in charge of the hospitals must be 100% sure that this isn't a safety issue, or else they would have made more drastic decisions by now.

the hospital isn't 100% sure there's no problem hence the continual monitoring. i know they've said rain events makes the problem worse and they are just in general trying to gather data. METRO has concurred about the rain events and said the design near the dome southward (not solid concrete surrounding the rails) seems to alleviate the situation. (the tracks are more isolated.)

EDIT: regarding the chron article Metro also says the leak amounts to less than what a nine-volt battery discharges in a day and poses no danger to people, buildings on the route, or rail service. Do you think METRO could at least provide data to back up the statement? I think that's all the TMC has asked of them.

Edited August 23, 2007 by musicman

[Trae]

Honesty is one thing that would help METRO. TMC had to do a study to get data regarding leaking current into the TMC complex because METRO refused to give them data. If you managed one of the hospitals, how would METRO's response (or lack of) make you feel? I know if i was in charge, i sure would want to know whether the current is affecting the equipment (life support for instance) because lives are involved.

METRO proposed quite a few commuter rail lines but yet didn't talk to the owner of at least one line (UP) to determine whether it was even feasible til this yr (from the way UP has described it) and the vote was in 2003. was putting it on the ballot misleading the public?

so as not to rehash too much, my big problem with METRO and LRT is that their designs are not innovative. they are barebone minimum which in the end results in additional traffic problems that they should help be alleviating.

METRO's design is horrible. I would much rather have it like Dallas, where their LRT was put on old RR tracks (going through a subway first for the Red and Blue lines). Too bad we couldn't do that in Houston, because our old rail lines are now feeders roads.

[Jax]

the hospital isn't 100% sure there's no problem hence the continual monitoring. i know they've said rain events makes the problem worse and they are just in general trying to gather data. METRO has concurred about the rain events and said the design near the dome southward (not solid concrete surrounding the rails) seems to alleviate the situation. (the tracks are more isolated.)

EDIT: regarding the chron article Metro also says the leak amounts to less than what a nine-volt battery discharges in a day and poses no danger to people, buildings on the route, or rail service. Do you think METRO could at least provide data to back up the statement? I think that's all the TMC has asked of them.

They are most likely monitoring it to learn more about the situation, possibly trying to determine whether it is getting worse. I don't know for sure. I can only speculate. As you said, the amount of current that is leaking is variable. I'm sorry I don't know all of the details, but believe me, the TMC hospitals take the safety of their patients seriously enough that if there were any safety concerns, the patients on life support would immediately be moved somewhere else. If this was a safety issue, I don't think it would even be legal to keep the hospitals open.

Just because they are continually monitoring the issue, does not prove that it's a safety concern.

EDIT: Maybe 100% sure is an overstatement. Maybe I should have said "there are no significant safety concerns due to the current". Hospitals tend to err on the side of safety though, so the evidence that there are no safety issues must be overwhelming in order for the hospitals not take more action than continual monitoring.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Jax

[musicman]

They are most likely monitoring it to learn more about the situation, possibly trying to determine whether it is getting worse. I don't know for sure. I can only speculate. As you said, the amount of current that is leaking is variable. I'm sorry I don't know all of the details, but believe me, the TMC hospitals take the safety of their patients seriously enough that if there were any safety concerns, the patients on life support would immediately be moved somewhere else. If this was a safety issue, I don't think it would even be legal to keep the hospitals open.

Just because they are continually monitoring the issue, does not prove that it's a safety concern.

EDIT: Maybe 100% sure is an overstatement. Maybe I should have said "there are no significant safety concerns due to the current". Hospitals tend to err on the side of safety though, so the evidence that there are no safety issues must be overwhelming in order for the hospitals not take more action than continual monitoring.

i can agree with that. i think everyone should err on the side of safety. should METRO address the concern though? that is the question. providing data that they have already should be easy. right?

Edited August 23, 2007 by musicman

[Jax]

Yes they should. I agree with you on that.

[The Voice of University Oaks]

I bet somebody at Metro is kicking themselves now for putting "Westpark Corridor" on the ballot, but unfortunately there's no way to go back in time and change it.

Damn right they are. Shirley Lie-bero and the previous Board of Directors simply didn't give the names of the corridors any thought. They just went with their internal planning names for these corridors without considering the confusion that could be (and has been) created.

"North Hardy" should have just been "North," especially since a Hardy Toll Road alignment was dropped during the Alternatives Analysis. "Harrisburg" should have been "East End" because the study area was much larger than just Harrisburg. And "Westpark" should have just been "West" because the study area, again, was much larger than just Westpark (especially given that Westpark doesn't even exist east of Kirby). They got it right with the Southeast and Uptown Corridors.

METRO proposed quite a few commuter rail lines but yet didn't talk to the owner of at least one line (UP) to determine whether it was even feasible til this yr (from the way UP has described it) and the vote was in 2003. was putting it on the ballot misleading the public?

UP attended several meetings with METRO, H-GAC, TxDOT and various Fort Bend County cities regarding the 90A commuter rail feasibility study, which was completed before the November 2003 referendum. I know because I was at several of them. If UP's claiming that they've had no talks with METRO regarding the Fort Bend County commuter rail line, they're simply lying.

I can't speak for the conversations METRO may or may not have had with UP regarding the Northwest commuter rail line.

Edited August 24, 2007 by The Voice of University Oaks

[AftonAg]

You hardly had a big presence at the Metro meeting last week.. I saw a few familiar faces from your group, and a few pins.. but there was nowhere near the organized vocal anti-richmond presence that there has been in meetings past.

Nor have you been as vocal on here since through Afton Oaks was taken off the table... you only show up in brief spurts now.. not that I mind.

The difference between me and many of the posters on here is that I have a business to run, and real projects to complete - I don't just sit on my but and carp about what's wrong with Houston . . . . I am sure you didn't mind me being away for awhile because frankly you just don't know how to deal with someone that doesn't blindly accept everything you hear or see on the liberal media as gospel.

[IHB2]

You hardly had a big presence at the Metro meeting last week.. I saw a few familiar faces from your group, and a few pins.. but there was nowhere near the organized vocal anti-richmond presence that there has been in meetings past.

Nor have you been as vocal on here since through Afton Oaks was taken off the table... you only show up in brief spurts now.. not that I mind.

the Mobility Coalition (Aftonag's antirail group) ran a full-page ad in the Chron's neighborhood sections yesterday. that had to cost a lot of $$. the timing, a few days before the big METRO public meeting on Monday, indicates the MoCo still has a plan and they're sticking to it.

so I don't think they're done yet.

besides, the METRO DEIS meetings last week were a poor venue for a vocal protest to get media attention, since METRO provided only old maps/renderings and a few consultants to explain some of the more arcane data in the DEIS.

[Highway6]

.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Highway6

[AftonAg]

the Mobility Coalition (Aftonag's antirail group) ran a full-page ad in the Chron's neighborhood sections yesterday. that had to cost a lot of $$. the timing, a few days before the big METRO public meeting on Monday, indicates the MoCo still has a plan and they're sticking to it.so I don't think they're done yet.besides, the METRO DEIS meetings last week were a poor venue for a vocal protest to get media attention, since METRO provided only old maps/renderings and a few consultants to explain some of the more arcane data in the DEIS.

Well Done IHB2 - I was wondering if anyone was paying attention and obviously you were! You are correct we aren't done yet . . . . . . actually it is just starting to get interesting again - stay tuned film at 11

.

Finally proof that Highway6 is female.

[Highway6]

Well Done IHB2 - I was wondering if anyone was paying attention and obviously you were! You are correct we aren't done yet . . . . . . actually it is just starting to get interesting again - stay tuned film at 11Finally proof that Highway6 is female.

No Afton... I had posted (#2849) about my previous post (#2825) being two part, and that you only responded (#2847) to the 2nd less important personal part, and ignored the first part which dealt with your group and was a response to one of your previous posts (#2822).

You chose to answer half of what i said and went off out in left field ranting about being an adult and having other things to do and other pointless crap.

You ignored the part where I was responding to the make-up and actions of your group.

I guess thats my fault, for giving you to much to read.

I sent it... I read and realized you were just going to get confused and my original response was never going to be addressed by you anyways.. so i gave up and deleted it.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Highway6

[AftonAg]

No Afton... I had posted (#2849) about my previous post (#2825) being two part, and that you only responded (#2847) to the 2nd less important personal part, and ignored the first part which dealt with your group and was a response to one of your previous posts (#2822).

You chose to answer half of what i said and went off out in left field ranting about being an adult and having other things to do and other pointless crap.

You ignored the part where I was responding to the make-up and actions of your group.

I guess thats my fault, for giving you to much to read.

I sent it... I read and realized you were just going to get confused and my original response was never going to be addressed by you anyways.. so i gave up and deleted it.

Well all righty then . . . .

You were at the meeting and I wasn't - so there wasn't much for me to say on the "first part" of your post. It was your observation that the MoCo as it has been called by IHB2 wasnt there in mass and wasn't as vocal. Ok I believe you. Does that mean we are done? Hardly we still have a war chest full of money to spend - and we intend to spend it to keep rail off of Richmond.

I must admit that your last post was even more confusing than some of trae's

[Highway6]

I must admit that your last post was even more confusing than some of trae's

I knew you would find it confusing.. hence the reason i gave up the first time and deleted it.

Thats why i referenced it this time with multiple (post #s) so that you could easily navigate the page and follow the chain of responses.

If you still are confused.. I'm sorry.. I'm afraid there just isn't any hope for you.