METRORail University Line

[AftonAg]

Hey, its coming whether you like it or not. Even if the ballot said Richmond instead of Westpark, do you really think the vote would have went the other way?

You might as well sell, smile, or shut-up.

I don't know how the vote would have gone, and neither do you, so you may can that smug attitude. We can both guess what might have happened and both guesses are equally valid. Perhaps if you would go back and read all of the posts you might discover that the purpose of my post listing the Afton Oaks Reasons for being against rail was purely informational for a new poster.

I will refrain from pummeling you with clever repartee for the time being.

[ricco67]

I don't know how the vote would have gone, and neither do you, so you may can that smug attitude. We can both guess what might have happened and both guesses are equally valid. Perhaps if you would go back and read all of the posts you might discover that the purpose of my post listing the Afton Oaks Reasons for being against rail was purely informational for a new poster.

I will refrain from pummeling you with clever repartee for the time being.

Actually, I always recommend that users read (or rather skim) some of our larger threads because quite a bit of it is still relevant, or it was at the time it was posting and puts the various arguments into some sort of perspective as opposed to a whole bunch of us simply summarizing our perspective arguments.

I'm just rather curious as to whether you are willing to put up with all the road improvement on Richmond in the next few years.

[wakester]

Actually, it probably would have. The referendum only passed by a pretty thin margin. METRO was very deliberate in dubbing the route "Westpark" because they wanted to keep the possibility of staunch NIMBYism among wealthy constituents (the only ones that ultimately matter) in that corridor in check, and Westpark was the most forgiving alignment where negative externalities are concerned.

...

I doudt that the voters in Afton Oaks voted "FOR" the the referendum because it said Westpark. I am sure the people fighting it now voted "NO" no matter what it said. I would even go so far as to say more people would have switched their vote from "YES" to "NO" if they would have shown the Culberson plan.

I think the closeness of the election just came down to the question of whether we should spend money on public transportation not on whether it was going to be going down Richmond or Westpark.

[KinkaidAlum]

I doudt that the voters in Afton Oaks voted "FOR" the the referendum because it said Westpark. I am sure the people fighting it now voted "NO" no matter what it said. I would even go so far as to say more people would have switched their vote from "YES" to "NO" if they would have shown the Culberson plan.

I think the closeness of the election just came down to the question of whether we should spend money on public transportation not on whether it was going to be going down Richmond or Westpark.

Exactly.

I was pleasantly surprised to see all of the "Rail On Richmond, Where the People Are" signs in yards in places like Southampton, Boulevard Oaks, the Museum District, Upper Kirby, Castle Court, Montrose, Ranch Estates, West U, etc...

[musicman]

I was pleasantly surprised to see all of the "Rail On Richmond, Where the People Are" signs in yards in places like Southampton, Boulevard Oaks, the Museum District, Upper Kirby, Castle Court, Montrose, Ranch Estates, West U, etc...

the two different homeowners i know in castle court chuckle at this. they said nobody here would be caught dead on the rail.

[Jax]

I've seen the signs in Castle Court as well. I know know some people wouldn't be caught dead on any form of public transit (you know... because it's only for 'poor people'), but I also know Rice students who live in the area who would love to ride the rail to school.

[AftonAg]

Actually, I always recommend that users read (or rather skim) some of our larger threads because quite a bit of it is still relevant, or it was at the time it was posting and puts the various arguments into some sort of perspective as opposed to a whole bunch of us simply summarizing our perspective arguments.

I'm just rather curious as to whether you are willing to put up with all the road improvement on Richmond in the next few years.

Ricco -

that will depend entirely on whether or not I decide to keep working at my current vocation or quit to pursue one of my hobbies as a source of income. If I keep working I will stay in Afton Oaks and live through whatever happens on Richmond. . . . .

My comments weren't aimed at you Ricco - you know full well what my stance is and why - we disagree - but have been less disagreeable about it lately.

Exactly.

I was pleasantly surprised to see all of the "Rail On Richmond, Where the People Are" signs in yards in places like Southampton, Boulevard Oaks, the Museum District, Upper Kirby, Castle Court, Montrose, Ranch Estates, West U, etc...

It shouldn't be a surprise that the West U folks want it on Richmond - the bunch of NIMBY'S!

[musicman]

I've seen the signs in Castle Court as well. I know know some people wouldn't be caught dead on any form of public transit (you know... because it's only for 'poor people'), but I also know Rice students who live in the area who would love to ride the rail to school.

if i lived there biking would be primo for rice.

[TheNiche]

I think the closeness of the election just came down to the question of whether we should spend money on public transportation not on whether it was going to be going down Richmond or Westpark.

I agree with you on this part. That is exactly how the debate was framed.

My assertion, though, is the METRO knew that the debate could be influenced by NIMBYism, even if just a little bit. And in elections, NIMBYs--which may or may not even care about things like light rail unless it could actually affect them--turn out far more reliably (even if they've never voted prior to then) and make a heck of a lot more noise than would the activist YIMBYs, which are the types that were following the issue and going to vote for the referendum one way or the other. This is an example of how single-issue voters can influence elections. But METRO played the game very astutely and took care to keep the issue very theoretical and not to disturb the NIMBYists.

[Jax]

if i lived there biking would be primo for rice.

Yeah you're right, biking is the way to go if you're going to the Rice campus (although I knew a guy who took the bus to Wheeler and took the train). But going downtown is another story...

I guess grad students don't get to make or break decisions like this, but I know a lot of people who live around Richmond who may not be home owners, but want the rail there pretty badly.

[musicman]

but I know a lot of people who live around Richmond who may not be home owners, but want the rail there pretty badly.

i can see the non-homeowners wanting rail more.

[IHB2]

But since Richmond runs parallel to the bayous, I don't follow your reasoning that it would be a prime candidate for concrete.

From what I can see in the GIMS system, there are only a couple stretches along Richmond where there is a continuous stormwater line; these are between Kirby and Edloe, and then from Timmons to Post Oak Blvd. But I can't tell how large the pipe is. There are no announced proposals to upgrade stormwater lines along any part of Richmond inside the loop, and the layout of stormwater lines under OST looks very similar to Richmond. So unless Ricco's pothole argument pans out, I'd put my money on asphalt resurfacing as the most likely outcome.

the line has played an important role in the arguments of the anti-Richmond rail group. its location apparently makes the laying of rail along that part of Richmond problematic w/o significant reconstruction of the line and/or the street = big $$. Frank Wilson has conceded as much when pressed in public meetings.

[KinkaidAlum]

the two different homeowners i know in castle court chuckle at this. they said nobody here would be caught dead on the rail.

Sounds like you need better friends. The ones you currently hang with sound like unsophisticated snobs. Those are the worst kind.

[musicman]

Sounds like you need better friends. The ones you currently hang with sound like unsophisticated snobs. Those are the worst kind.

come join us!

[Jeebus]

I don't know how the vote would have gone, and neither do you, so you may can that smug attitude. We can both guess what might have happened and both guesses are equally valid. Perhaps if you would go back and read all of the posts you might discover that the purpose of my post listing the Afton Oaks Reasons for being against rail was purely informational for a new poster.

I will refrain from pummeling you with clever repartee for the time being.

Reading your posts when they were orginally posted did nothing to change my mind, but please go ahead and pummel away. All the words in the world aren't going to change the fact that the Metrorail is coming to Richmond, and I'm going be to on it.

Let's embrace this baby!

[Trae]

So, its happening? It's going through Afton Oaks?

[IHB2]

So, its happening? It's going through Afton Oaks?

uhhhhh....no

[ricco67]

uhhhhh....no

We won't know anything until sometime later this summer or fall. I think the changing political winds might give Metro some balls and put it through 610, but they're keeping their cards very close to their chest at this time.

Right now I'm curious about the uptown line. THAT should be very interesting for construction and approval.

[Trae]

uhhhhh....no

Read the post above mine.

I hope what you say is true Ricco. That would be nice if it went all the way to 610. What is so interesting about the Uptown Line (besides it being BRT)?

[ricco67]

Read the post above mine.

I hope what you say is true Ricco. That would be nice if it went all the way to 610. What is so interesting about the Uptown Line (besides it being BRT)?

What's going to be interesting is the fact that the uptown area is almost legendary in its protestations against ANY form of construction or change.

Here are but a few examples that I know of:

610 expansion

Turning Richmond and Westheimer into one way streets.

Widening of Westheimer

They're almost fanatical about it if they suspect that it might interfere with the shoppers going into and out of the place.

plus when (no doubt it's a WHEN) construction takes place the disruption will be almost legendary to the point that I'm sure priests in the area will find a reference to it in the bible.

[IHB2]

Read the post above mine.

I hope what you say is true Ricco. That would be nice if it went all the way to 610. What is so interesting about the Uptown Line (besides it being BRT)?

there are 3 finalist alignments for the U Line west of Main St. none of them extend further west on Richmond than Cummins St. east of Wesleyan. the DEIS process has already taken place on these 3 options, a second round of public comments on the DEIS is on the METRO schedule for this month and August. the Locally Preferred Alternative is scheduled to be chosen by the METRO board at its August meeting, followed by the final EIS for that choice. METRO board Chairman Wolff is on the record as favoring the Cummins option.

the Sunset Terrace/College Court/West U neighborhood, which will receive the highest impact from the Wpark alignment, still hopes to persuade METRO to cross 59 at the UP tracks or Drexel, but METRO seems unwilling even to discuss it.

so it is extremely unlikely the U Line will come anywhere near Afton Oaks, although residents there could someday catch the Uptown Line and connect with the U Line over on Westpark.

[ricco67]

The more I think about it, the more I seem to like the cummings alignment. a brief stop over by West U would probably see some use, but I can see how the people at Drexel would like for the line to be in their area, but I can see how problematic it would be for metro to cross the UP tracks.

As it currently stands, I can see the Richmond line (in the future) perhaps be extended out. as ridership increases and the numbers get more solid, the money for extending the routes won't be that much of a problem.

The only real bummer is the dog park going away, but I'm sure it can be put somewhere nearby.

[Trae]

I guess the easiest thing to do is go south on Weslayan, then make a right down Westpark. Then, have a stop by all those apartments along Westpark. Too bad tunneling isn't an option.

[nmainguy]

I can see how problematic it would be for metro to cross the UP tracks.

It really won't be that problematic because the line will either run on or adjacent to the Westpark overpass or the Richmomd bridge when Richmond is rebuilt. If we were still living in AO, we'd be advocating for an underpass instead of looming Westpark-style bridges on Westhiemer and Richmond.

[ricco67]

It really won't be that problematic because the line will either run on or adjacent to the Westpark overpass or the Richmomd bridge when Richmond is rebuilt. If we were still living in AO, we'd be advocating for an underpass instead of looming Westpark-style bridges on Westhiemer and Richmond.

Well, what I was referring to was a potential Drexel alignment. If that was the case, the turn would have been way too severe and awkward considering the UP tracks would have been extremely close. If it was the Cummin' or any other alignment then transversing the UP tracks would have been very simple.

[musicman]

i spoke with someone who is working on the rail designs for Richmond between the spur and montrose....I got an email with some info.

From Montrose to Stanford, the ROW is currently 80'. Between Stanford and Greeley, it expands to 100' and then stays at 100' to the Spur. The drawings show some property being taken on the south side of Richmond between Montrose and Stanford and on the north side of Richmond between Stanford and Jack.

If this ends up being the case, looks like the proletariat and chapultapec may be affected since they are on the south side of richmond between montrose and stanford. on the northside of richmond between stanford and jack, looks like a block of homes and a block of townhomes. should be interesting to see what happens.

[Pumapayam]

I think some Pro-railers mugged a few of those Afton Oaks neighbors.

Maybe they will move now!

Just messing.

HOUSTON -- Residents of the Afton Oaks subdivision said they are worried about their safety after two driveway robberies in the area, KPRC Local 2 reported Tuesday.

One resident said he was robbed after getting home from the airport at about midnight Saturday.

Article here.

[GovernorAggie]

Just wanted to say that I drove through Afton Oaks a few months ago for the first time and gotta say it's a pretty nice 'hood. The nicer parts are of course away from Richmond, north of it and south of Westheimer. However, I'll also say that it's character is going away pretty quickly with a lot of tear-downs and replacements with McMansions.

So Afton Oaks is gonna change with or without LRT.

[TheNiche]

So Afton Oaks is gonna change with or without LRT.

Yep, but that wasn't disputed. What was at issue was whether the change attributable to the LRT would have been for the better or worse. Ridership in that neighborhood would've been very low and I think that by the end of the debate, there wasn't even a stop planned in AO. If the net difference between now and five years from now is that the lanes have been narrowed, turns across the median have been made more difficult, and that there is a train that regularly blows a whistle that can be heard for up to a half mile at night, and there is no access point within walking distance, then would you honestly expect the AO crowd to be on board with the idea?

[sidegate]

Sorry if I missed an earlier post answering this question, but when will a final decision on the route of the University Line be rendered?