Greenspoint Mall Developments

[RedScare]

Someone posted a link to an article from the Chronicle on this forum last year. It listed the worst zip codes by crime rate in the city of Houston. And Greenspoint was #1 or #2, I think. The article quoted a police official who worked in thee Greenspoint area. He cited the high concentration of low-income apartments as the cause of the high crime rate.

Now this didn't say whether it was gang-related crime, or whether it was homicide, etc. It just said highest crime rate.

It was mostly stolen vehicles, with the Greenspoint Mall parking lot one of the biggest contributors.

[tigereye]

Well, heres one way the Greenspoint project will try to attract customers....

Someone mentioned the office crowd earlier.......skywalks will be built connecting Greenspoint to the office buildings next door. This has been planned for years, but now they will execute as part of the renovation.

BTW, Ive seen this to be compared to the Marq E earlier in the thread, being that the projects are similar in design concept with an outdoor entertainment theme. However, there is one big difference between the Marq E and the Greenspoint project.

The Marq E doesnt have an office corridor and hotels next door. Nor does it have the city's major airport a minutes drive away.

This redevlopment of Greenspoint will be successfull in the long run cause Greenspoint will now be able to attract a crowd, both during the day at lunch time for office workers, and at night for the families and youths in the area as a casual hang out spot. This was the problem Greenspoint has had recently. During the work day, the mall attracts healthy crowd numbers. At night, the mall is virtually empty. With this renovation, that problem will be fixed as it will provide a much-wlecomed entertainment and shopping destination close-by for those who live in the area.

There is one more bright spot in the future for Greenspoint as well. At some point, Light Rail will rumble up Airline Drive all the way to the mall and eventually connect Greenspoint to Downtown and the big airport.

Greenspoints future is bright, in my mind.

[TheNiche]

Well, heres one way the Greenspoint project will try to attract customers....

Someone mentioned the office crowd earlier.......skywalks will be built connecting Greenspoint to the office buildings next door. This has been planned for years, but now they will execute as part of the renovation.

Seems like you know quite a bit about the project. Got any links to websites with more information or any renderings that you could post? You wouldn't happen to be affiliated with the TIRZ, Management District, or the North Houston Assn., would you?

[TAK]

The crime statistics based on zip codes bear what I stated as fact (not just in the 1980

[Roy D. Mercer]

Where do you get these crime stats? Do they come from the HPD website? The website that says:

"The Houston Police Department does not recommend raw data comparisons be made between police beats. This web site does not provide a comparative analysis of the various beats. "

(No thanks I can do my own rationalization and comparasion).

and...

"ZIP code boundaries and police beat boundaries do not correspond. ZIP code boundaries may overlap beat boundaries and there may be several beats within several ZIP codes and vice versa. ZIP codes are provided only as a reference."

IIRC, the Humble/Deerbrook mall area once had more 'crime' (per capita) than Greenspoint (and almost any other area in Houston) but that area was not considered an area of high crime... back when Humble High School was a 'good school'.

Very good Kimosabe. Nice observation that I may NOT be using HPD numbers based upon their beats. See I was talking about zip codes, people move into zip codes not police beats. If one has any modicum of intelligence they check these things out through what, yes a realtor, not a cop shop. When one checks for themselves or though a realtor they can get all of the information about their prospective neighborhood.

Things like school district ratings, income, community make up, crime etc. You know all of the things that make up the community.

Tip of the day: Check out Gunspoints zip codes stats vs. say, Humble, that's it; Humble and you'll see a different picture (it may not be the one HPD wants you to see).

Edited May 1, 2006 by Roy D. Mercer

[desirous]

Interesting. In the Bayou Place thread you said Downtown needed a movie theater because people did not want to drive long distances. Then, 5 minutes later, in this thread, you claim people do not mind driving long distances.

People in the city tend to prefer shorter distances; exurb residents are accustomed to their 45-minute drives.

I hear a large proportion of crimes in the Greenspoint area are vehicle-related. At least that makes one feel a bit safer, biologically.

[HoustonianInColorado]

I hope that Greenspoint can have a renaissance, as it is one of the first things people often see flying into IAH, or driving in on I-45.

Edited May 26, 2006 by HoustonianInColorado

[rps324]

I hope that Greenspoint can have a renaissance, as it is one of the first things people often see flying into IAH, or driving in on I-45.

I continue to be the resident skeptic on Greenspoint. If they couldn't significantly reposition it, (heavy emphasis on significantly), with the recent whole "Cityview" deal, then what would create a renaissance? You can't say they haven't tried. They've had the Management District, the gutting and rehabbing of almost the entire apartment district complete with elaborate marketing campaigns to attract more upscale clientele, landscaping, parks & other upgrades. They've done about everything you could do. Yet still it is what it is. Woodlands, Willowbrook & Deerbrook have taken much of the original clientele base going north, and once Northline gets a Gulfgate style rehab, it will probably have at least some level of drawing power against GP, certainly more than it has now anyway. That will create a new competitor, albeit a small one, that hasn't been in the equation before.

There was talk at one point of Greenspoint becoming some sort of convention type facility. I have no idea how viable that would be. I will not be surprised to see it reinvented into some other use, possibly like they did with Westwood. I could easily turn out to be wrong on this one, but I bet I'm not.

[tigereye]

The first rendering is in.....This of Renaissance Plaza facing the Greenspoint Drive office corridor. Shown is the concert stage area. Partially shown is the food court area (lower left) and water feature (a.k.a. lake) and accompanying boardwalk (upper right).

[Houstonian in Iraq]

Thanks, looks like a serious project on their hands.

Hope they pull it off.

[Roy D. Mercer]

... and water feature (a.k.a. lake)

Would that "water feature" be Greens Bayou? (ROFLMAO)

Edited May 29, 2006 by Roy D. Mercer

[Houston19514]

I continue to be the resident skeptic on Greenspoint. If they couldn't significantly reposition it, (heavy emphasis on significantly), with the recent whole "Cityview" deal, then what would create a renaissance? You can't say they haven't tried. They've had the Management District, the gutting and rehabbing of almost the entire apartment district complete with elaborate marketing campaigns to attract more upscale clientele, landscaping, parks & other upgrades. They've done about everything you could do. Yet still it is what it is. Woodlands, Willowbrook & Deerbrook have taken much of the original clientele base going north, and once Northline gets a Gulfgate style rehab, it will probably have at least some level of drawing power against GP, certainly more than it has now anyway. That will create a new competitor, albeit a small one, that hasn't been in the equation before.

There was talk at one point of Greenspoint becoming some sort of convention type facility. I have no idea how viable that would be. I will not be surprised to see it reinvented into some other use, possibly like they did with Westwood. I could easily turn out to be wrong on this one, but I bet I'm not.

But none of that "Cityview deal, the Management District, the gutting and rehabbing of almost the entire apartment district complete with elaborate marketing campaigns, landscaping parks and other upgrades" did anything to upgrade, rehab or reposition Greenspoint Mall. In fact, you can say they have not tried to reposition the mall, because in fact nothing has been attempted at the mall prior to this.

[tigereye]

Would that "water feature" be Greens Bayou? (ROFLMAO)

Nope, Greens Bayou is about a mile east of the site.

Water feature is totally man made.

[Houston19514]

Very good Kimosabe. Nice observation that I may NOT be using HPD numbers based upon their beats. See I was talking about zip codes, people move into zip codes not police beats. If one has any modicum of intelligence they check these things out through what, yes a realtor, not a cop shop. When one checks for themselves or though a realtor they can get all of the information about their prospective neighborhood.

Things like school district ratings, income, community make up, crime etc. You know all of the things that make up the community.

Tip of the day: Check out Gunspoints zip codes stats vs. say, Humble, that's it; Humble and you'll see a different picture (it may not be the one HPD wants you to see).

Where do you suppose the realtors get their crime statistics?

[Roy D. Mercer]

Where do you suppose the realtors get their crime statistics?

The source is a compilation that includes The U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey as well as the FBI reported crime statistics. The use of just one source has proven to be grossly under reporting of actual crimes and incidents.

[Houston19514]

The source is a compilation that includes The U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey as well as the FBI reported crime statistics. The use of just one source has proven to be grossly under reporting of actual crimes and incidents.

Any chance you could give us a link so we could see the realtor crime statistics?

[Pumapayam]

Any chance you could give us a link so we could see the realtor crime statistics?

Greenspoint Website for statistics

Mall renovation flyer

[ooires]

Back in the early 1980's the body count coming out of the Gunspoint area was tremendous. There was even a cop kidnapped and later found burned to death in her vehicle. Then it was over run with gangs not shoppers, heck there was more stealing than buying. Needless to say after that reputation got foothold it was down hill from there. Hence the big public relations campaign in the media to change the image. I chuckle everytime I hear it. Like I would want to shop in Watts. Heck the only reason anyone from the outside came there to shop was there was no other place to shop. (1980's)

Actually it was the early '90's; it wasn't that long ago. In the early '80's, Greenspoint was a model of what a suburban mall should be. It was beautiful and had great anchor stores. The beginning of the end was the closing of Montgomery Wards in 1991 or so and the kidnapping of that HC Sherrif's Deputy. After that, they begin to lose other stores. Dillard's converted their store to an outlet. The Woodland's mall opened and the rest is history.

People in the city tend to prefer shorter distances; exurb residents are accustomed to their 45-minute drives.

I hear a large proportion of crimes in the Greenspoint area are vehicle-related. At least that makes one feel a bit safer, biologically.

Actually my experience has been different. Those I know who live in Clear Lake, Friendswood, Katy, The Woodlands, Kingwood, etc. hate driving into town. They like shopping, recreating near their homes. If the arenas/stadiums/theatres wern't downtown, they'd probably never make the trip.

Inner city dwellers tend to be ready to drive to any suburban mall, pavillion, theme park, restaurant, etc.

Just my experience . . . . .

[RedScare]

Actually my experience has been different. Those I know who live in Clear Lake, Friendswood, Katy, The Woodlands, Kingwood, etc. hate driving into town. They like shopping, recreating near their homes. If the arenas/stadiums/theatres wern't downtown, they'd probably never make the trip.

Inner city dwellers tend to be ready to drive to any suburban mall, pavillion, theme park, restaurant, etc.

Just my experience . . . . .

I don't know where your experience comes from, but every one of my friends and I brag about never leaving the loop. When I lived in The Woodlands, I routinely drove 2,000 miles per month. Now, in the Heights, I rarely put more than 500 miles per month on my car. I haven't been to a suburban mall since I moved into town 7 years ago, including Greenspoint.

[Jeebus]

I don't know where your experience comes from, but every one of my friends and I brag about never leaving the loop. When I lived in The Woodlands, I routinely drove 2,000 miles per month. Now, in the Heights, I rarely put more than 500 miles per month on my car. I haven't been to a suburban mall since I moved into town 7 years ago, including Greenspoint.

How old are your children?

[mm mm good]

First time to post here.

I don't see any upside to preserving Greenspoint Mall, the stigma won't go away - not to mention the saturation of other malls within close proximity like Deerbrook, Willowbrook and Woodlands malls. I lived in the area for several years, worked at several shops in the mall, and had seen the decay advance over the years.

The place needs to be razed, along with about half of the low-rent apartments in the area. The city should visit the idea zoning it for additional office/warehouse/commercial properties in its stead.

[PureAuteur]

I think Greenspoint has tremendous upside. After going downhill in the 90s and becoming a low-income area, it still looks great. It's a surivor, for sure. I don't know what it is about Greenspoint. The planning is very good, much like with Westchase. Streets look nice, the landscaping looks nice, infrastructure nice, and the buildings are quite beautiful to look at either at night up close or from the freeways around it. The mall would be great if they just renovated it, thus making people feel more comfortable shopping there who live in or outside of Greenspoint in those areas around Kuykendahl south of 1960. There are several new neighborhoods going in there, and GP Mall is the most convenient. The home prices are around 120 to 150k as Bachanon stated.

[wordgirl]

I don't know where your experience comes from, but every one of my friends and I brag about never leaving the loop. When I lived in The Woodlands, I routinely drove 2,000 miles per month. Now, in the Heights, I rarely put more than 500 miles per month on my car. I haven't been to a suburban mall since I moved into town 7 years ago, including Greenspoint.

All I know is that when it is close to a hundred degrees outside, and you are bored out of your gourd at home watching your baby all day long--an airconditioned mall is a nice place to go. When we lived in Garden Oaks, we hung out at Memorial City Mall pretty often. Lots of moms from the Heights sought refuge there as well.

We live in Fall Creek now, so it would be great if Greenspoint were renovated, because it is just down the road from us. But I probably wouldn't shop there too much until it got cooler. I much prefer the open-air "town-center" concept, but in August, the mall is the way to go! I wish Deerbrook would get a redo like Memorial City, but it is not too bad.

[ooires]

FWIW, HPD records show that the population in Greenspoint has grown 48 percent since 1991, and the rate of major crimes has dropped 42 percent.

Of course, these are statistics and are subject to the bias of those who compile them. What they categorize as a "major" crime may have changed since 1991. They could be accurate, but . . . .

[IronTiger]

Sears is closing at Greenspoint in May 2010.

And I thought Greenspoint was going back uphill.

[Robert W. Boyd]

Sears is closing at Greenspoint in May 2010.

And I thought Greenspoint was going back uphill.

It's a bad time to be a mall. Especially one that was already struggling.

I work just down the street from the mall, and I wish it were better. I have shopped at Macy's, but the mall interior struck me as underlit and depressing (I haven't been in it for about a year, though--it may have improved).

[Johnme]

It's a bad time to be a mall. Especially one that was already struggling.

I work just down the street from the mall, and I wish it were better. I have shopped at Macy's, but the mall interior struck me as underlit and depressing (I haven't been in it for about a year, though--it may have improved).

The mall has not changed much in the past year with the exception of a few store changes and the upcoming closure of the Sears location. My blog at http://southernretail.blogspot.com/ has pictures and information from Greenspoint and other malls in Texas and Louisiana.

[wxman]

The mall has not changed much in the past year with the exception of a few store changes and the upcoming closure of the Sears location. My blog at http://southernretail.blogspot.com/ has pictures and information from Greenspoint and other malls in Texas and Louisiana.

Greenspoint Mall is still slated for MEGA Renovation. Here is a Channel 11 story on Greenspoint and Sharpstown. Worth the watch..

http://www.khou.com/news/Mall-Makeovers--Struggling-malls-to-revamp-to-boost-business--87549042.html

[cosmic08]

I hope something good happens for Greenspoint as I grew up going to that mall. But, sometimes I just wish it was put out of its misery.

[lockmat]

Construction of a new movie theater at Greenspoint Mall has begun. Original plans called for the addition of a 20-screen movie theater at the site of the vacant JCPenny store. Demolition crews began tearing down part of the building this morning. Mall management has confirmed that Premiere Cinema has started construction. The new theater was to be part of a $32-million face-lift that would also include a plaza and new restaurants and stores. We’ll keep you posted when we learn more.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?pid=5326951&id=279231934047