People Talking Bad About Houston's Skyline On Skyscraper City

[Jeebus]

This is not good news.

No, this is just "not news".

[tamtagon]

That said, when the interest grows and related development expands, you could see a mini-boom of sorts in the next ten years.

I think the boom will last longer than 10 years, at least 20 years. Lifestyle opportunity enrichment will occur in rural and urban settings as baby boomers retire. The six big city settings in Texas - Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Fort Worth, Austin, El Paso - can anticipate significant expansion in the urban environment as well as continued sprawling suburban. El Paso could experience the greatest rate of growth, and become a viable relocation alternative to Phoenix.

Sunbelt urban environments will attract residents from two very different but very significant sources: young adults and old adults. The "new" cityscapes growing in our culture during at least the next generation will be more comfortable, convenient, and varied than ever before. The biggest concern in Houston is the stability of oil related industries; if oil prices experience sustained relative decline, Houston will grow more slowly.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

Part of the reason that Houston's skyline is so striking is that there's enough room between the builidngs to allow them to be seen in their entirety. This would not be the case if surface parking lots (or low-rise structures) weren't scattered throughout downtown.

If our skyscrapers were packed solidly together, it would just be a jumble.

I Agree that the spaced out buildings do contribute to a striking skyline, but I don't think that filling in all those many lots with buildings will hurt it. Several cities are compacted and still have a great skyline. It would just have to be done right.

[WesternGulf]

I Agree that the spaced out buildings do contribute to a striking skyline, but I don't think that filling in all those many lots with buildings will hurt it. Several cities are compacted and still have a great skyline. It would just have to be done right.

Exactly. I find San Francisco's downtown skyline stunning and a huge part of that is because the skyscrapers have a bed of midrise density to stand in. Going towards the city at night from the Bay Bridge almost feels like Manhattan.

[torvald]

Never even heard of SSC!

Is it worse than the gossip that is haif2?

haif2 is starting to remind me of The Post's Page Six.

uh, what's haif2?

and where's the gossip here?

speculation you mean?

[YakuzaIce]

uh, what's haif2?

I have seen this name thrown around a few times lately. My guess is that it is in reference to the current incarnation of haif2 considering the original was attacked, and thus ceases to exist. Unless there was another haif2 before that, then my theory goes out the window.

EDIT: Oh, when you type in "H A I F" (no spaces), it is changed to "haif2".

[RedScare]

And since that time I have seen many tall building in Downtown go down too, for no reason.

Even after that picture was taken, so it probably looks even worst now.

Really? How many?

[Trae]

With the high oil prices, do any of you think Houston is going to expierience another boom soon?

[jmancuso]

that really is an unflattering pic. this city has way too many surface lots..not just downtown but everywhere.

[WesternGulf]

I would say Downtown and Midtown and parts of Fourth Ward are the only areas in the inner loop, south of I-10/west of 3rd Ward, that has a high supply of vacant lots or fields. Pictures of 4th Ward a few years ago were truly depressing. That whole area southwest of downtown looked wiped out. Although it is unfortunate what has been lost, we could have done better than that as far as what is there now. That area screamed potential for true urban development. Even some of the brick streets are still there where the tin can village now stands.

[dbigtex56]

Speaking of the way that our downtown skyline is perceived, 4th Ward, etc. ...

In the early 80s the vantage from which Houston's skyline was often photographed was W. Gray at Valentine. That slight bend on W. Gray gives a perspective which made downtown appear to be emerging from a sea of dilapidated shotgun shacks, especially when viewed through a telephoto lens. This was as tempting to photographers as the striking (and all-too-familiar) view of downtown from Eleanor Tinsley park. Kind of got on the locals' nerves that this is the image of Houston which often showed up in the national press. Not exactly as flattering as San Francisco's Postcard Row.

Once Kathy Whitmire was elected mayor, that block of shotguns got bulldozed, pronto.

[torvald]

EDIT: Oh, when you type in "H A I F" (no spaces), it is changed to "haif2".

but when the editor types it, there's a copyright symbol after it...

maybe it's supposed to be switching to that?

anyhow --- looking at the photo above, i never realized that

the rice hotel's roof was slanted. neat!

[Gary]

And since that time I have seen many tall building in Downtown go down too, for no reason.

Even after that picture was taken, so it probably looks even worst now.

You've seen many tall buildings in downtown go down? Where the hell was I?

Someone needs to stop citykid from drinking the water in Bryan.

By the way citykid, the word your looking for at the end of your last sentence is.... Worse, not worst.

[Houston19514]

The pickup of surface lots from the private sector has been slower. Major former lots are Reliant Building, Houston Center, Enron II, and coming soon the Pavillions. (Hobby, Calpine, new Main Street garage, cathedral, and Christ Church weren't replacing surface lots).

What did Calpine replace? I thought it was mostly surface lots.

The Christ Church expansion on to the adjacent block is indeed replacing mostly surface lots. You can see them in the Google pic.

What was on the site of the new Catholic cathedral? I thought that was formerly surface lots as well.

[Subdude]

Calpine replaced Rice-Rittenhouse garage. I think there was an auto repair shop and some other buildings where the cathedral will be.

[Houston19514]

Calpine replaced Rice-Rittenhouse garage. I think there was an auto repair shop and some other buildings where the cathedral will be.

Oh yes, I remember the Rice-Rittenhouse now.

I guess they cleared the block for the cathedral so long ago, it's hard to remember there was anything there ;-)

[RedScare]

So, I guess under the SSC approach to things, the fact that Philadelphia has lost over a quarter of its population in the last 40 years is not important as long as the empty buildings are still standing? There is a term for a scenario such as this...a Potemkin village. That is, as long as it LOOKS good, nothing else matters. I realize that there are several people on this forum that think the same way, but most people would think that Houston's growth over the last 50 years is preferable to Philly's losses over the same period...regardless of how many surface lots Houston has.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Anyone have any idea how parking is decided for new tall buildings or new buildings in general in the downtown area? Are the builders required to place parking underground? Or can they just build a parking garage adjacent to the new structure? I like the idea of underground parking best....use it as a means to expand the tunnel system, also use as a means to improve flood control by installing flood drains an pumps under there, and could also be a precursor to a subway line in the future by having enough underground structures/infrastructure in place to make a subway an easier operaton to get underway/complete......

[The Great Hizzy!]

So, I guess under the SSC approach to things, the fact that Philadelphia has lost over a quarter of its population in the last 40 years is not important as long as the empty buildings are still standing? There is a term for a scenario such as this...a Potemkin village. That is, as long as it LOOKS good, nothing else matters. I realize that there are several people on this forum that think the same way, but most people would think that Houston's growth over the last 50 years is preferable to Philly's losses over the same period...regardless of how many surface lots Houston has.

"Hey, you missed a spot!"

It really is a funny obsession.

And, Red, they already have a retort concerning Houston's population growth and Philly's decline: "Yeah? Well, if Philadelphia annexed half of Louisiana like Houston did, we'd be bigger."

It's better than Comedy Central.

[RedScare]

"Hey, you missed a spot!"

It really is a funny obsession.

And, Red, they already have a retort concerning Houston's population growth and Philly's decline: "Yeah? Well, if Philadelphia annexed half of Louisiana like Houston did, we'd be bigger."

It's better than Comedy Central.

This, from the people who booed Santa Claus.

[Montrose1100]

Houston has been a heated discussion and titles in several topics at SSC. But the majority of people there are just -serious- idiots. They lack alot of common sence, and SSC is just a cess pool for them.

[MiDTOWNeR]

Oh yea, Midtowner. The guy who thinks Houston smells funny.

Well, it does. Not everyday, but more often than not, inside the loop smells like sewage. Try and say it doesn't or that I am the only one but stank is stank is stank. And this town has some serious stank!

Do you all feel better now...bashing the basher? I hope so. Glad to give you a dissenting view. I try to be objective, but you all wont have that. All or nothing, and unfortunately that will not work...especially for Houston.

[nmainguy]

Well, it does. Not everyday, but more often than not, inside the loop smells like sewage. Try and say it doesn't or that I am the only one but stank is stank is stank. And this town has some serious stank!

Do you all feel better now...bashing the basher? I hope so. Glad to give you a dissenting view. I try to be objective, but you all wont have that. All or nothing, and unfortunately that will not work...especially for Houston.

I've lived here all of my 53 years so I am pretty acclimated to any stench in the air-I guess I just don't notice it if it is there at all.

Yesterday morning when I let the cat out, I smelt a faint burning oder-then I realized it was just a small townhouse burning a block away .

I'm not going to bash the basher because I'm not convinced you're a basher in the first place. You may just have a highly developed sense of smell.

[Gary]

Well, it does. Not everyday, but more often than not, inside the loop smells like sewage. Try and say it doesn't or that I am the only one but stank is stank is stank. And this town has some serious stank!

Do you all feel better now...bashing the basher?

I know I feel much better now.

[Jeebus]

Well, it does. Not everyday, but more often than not, inside the loop smells like sewage. Try and say it doesn't or that I am the only one but stank is stank is stank. And this town has some serious stank!

Could you give a physical location as to where this alleged inner-loop "stank" is going on?

[citykid09]

You've seen many tall buildings in downtown go down? Where the hell was I?

Someone needs to stop citykid from drinking the water in Bryan.

By the way citykid, the word your looking for at the end of your last sentence is.... Worse, not worst.

When I said tall I mint around 10 stroies tall. And several of them have gone down.

[editor]

I have seen this name thrown around a few times lately. My guess is that it is in reference to the current incarnation of haif2 considering the original was attacked, and thus ceases to exist. Unless there was another haif2 before that, then my theory goes out the window.

EDIT: Oh, when you type in "H A I F" (no spaces), it is changed to "haif2".

Oops. Sorry about that. I was playing with some settings, and didn't realize I left them still active.

I'm trying to set up the system so it automatically adds

[MiDTOWNeR]

Could you give a physical location as to where this alleged inner-loop "stank" is going on?

Not alleged dear.

N Main & Quitman

Louisiana & Elgin/Westheimer

Montrose & Richmond

17th & Yale

Ready. Set. Now prove me wrong! Go on, I can see the post already. Hell, I don't even have to provide locations. Someone will still say I made it up. -sigh-

[TheNiche]

The parking lots are lucrative and the owners of the property don't feel pressured to come down off their prices to developers who might want to develop said property but may not want to pay as much for the land.

That said, when the interest grows and related development expands, you could see a mini-boom of sorts in the next ten years.

My advice: patience.

I think that you're about on the mark.

Developers have scoured every single lot on every single block of the CBD, looking for a deal...any deal. Its such a high-profile place that some developers would gladly break even doing a downtown project if only to obtain the publicity. But the fact is that land is priced at a premium because 1) surface lots make a lot of money, and 2) PRESTIGE.

The high land prices are a roundabout market-based way of zoning for density, if not necessarily land use. So you can be assured that whatever gets built will be big and dense...but demand only warrants so much new space per year in the CBD, and new development is necessarily staggered because the projects have to be so big.

The downside is the wait...made more painful by the prevailing high costs of highrise construction. The upside, and a BIG upside, is that when you get new development (that isn't a church, civic facility, or heavily subsidized), it is big. Very big. If you want density, but you don't want to adversely affect the economics behind peoples' choices of where they can live, the best thing you can do is wait. It'll come.

EDIT: Incidentally, the next best thing you can do is vote on referendums to build more highways and mass transit linking the CBD to the rest of the region. Its counterintuitive, and you may foster more suburbs in the process, but it'll also foster more downtown employment because a higher percentage of the labor force will be able to efficiently access the CBD than any other competing employment area. There is a very strong empirical link between the number of jobs downtown in any given year and the demand for apartment units in nearby neighborhoods. Plus, the people who tend to make decisions about corporate relocation also tend to live in the suburbs; we don't want traffic congestion to incentivize the placement of employees in the suburbs because that's a process that fosters the slight densification of suburbs rather than the major densification of the central city. Case in point: The Woodlands, Sugar Land, Energy Corridor/Westchase.

[torvald]

Could you give a physical location as to where this alleged inner-loop "stank" is going on?

i can --- riding my bike around town, passing sewer drains and manholes.

a few areas stand out as having a pretty foul odor. i do my best to steer

clear of a few pockets around town. the worse area like this (that i know of)

starts at the manhole at w. alabama & in front of "field of greens" restarant

to the worst intersection, argonne and steel street (behind the old schlotsky's)

there are little pockets like this that over half the time are horrible. car driving

folks may not have to deal with it so much.

the most general area i can think of would still be along richmond and w.

alabama between shepherd's damn road and kirby...