Houston Pavilions Vs. Bayou Place

[Dream]

i'm excited about the new houston pavilions project that will be opening sometime in 2007/2008. i think downtown could use the economic boost and the developer seems to be a real pro. i'm not convinced downtown needs the office space or the condo units. there seems to be a lot of current supply and little demand.

i worry about bayou place. how will the pavilions project affect this development? will verizon shut down because of house of blues in the pavilions? will everyone go to the new restaurants in the pavilion and forget about bayou place? what about the movie theatre? i hear the pavilions is trying to get a movie theatre. will this force out angelica?

is the theatre crowd and genorous parking enough to keep this development/area viable? are the new buffalo bayou enhancements going to be a big draw of people. how long will the aquarium continue to attract people? will the new office space in bayou place phase 2 bring enough bodies to keep this development healthy?

Dream

[DJ V Lawrence]

i'm excited about the new houston pavilions project that will be opening sometime in 2007/2008. i think downtown could use the economic boost and the developer seems to be a real pro. i'm not convinced downtown needs the office space or the condo units. there seems to be a lot of current supply and little demand.

i worry about bayou place. how will the pavilions project affect this development? will verizon shut down because of house of blues in the pavilions? will everyone go to the new restaurants in the pavilion and forget about bayou place? what about the movie theatre? i hear the pavilions is trying to get a movie theatre. will this force out angelica?

is the theatre crowd and genorous parking enough to keep this development/area viable? are the new buffalo bayou enhancements going to be a big draw of people. how long will the aquarium continue to attract people? will the new office space in bayou place phase 2 bring enough bodies to keep this development healthy?

Dream

I think the only way Bayou Place will survive long term is if Buffalo Bayou itself becomes a redevelopment haven, just as the Buffalo Bayou Project dudes are trying to do now. It'll be much easier to survive if more attractions are built around, not just in, Bayou Place. Plus, Houston Pavillions has residential proximity on it's side.

What if there were residential high rises over-looking Buffalo Bayou? The bayou, with it's lighting, could be scenic at night, and could also give another beautiful view of Downtown's skyline. After a better Buffalo Bayou flood plan were put in place, flooding would be less of a deterent, and those plans already exist. Is it possible to have a high-rise district across Buffalo Bayou from Bayou Place and Wortham?

Just as Houston Pavillions and Main Street in general is becoming a pedestrian haven, why couldn't Bayou Place be that as well?

[houstonsemipro]

i'm excited about the new houston pavilions project that will be opening sometime in 2007/2008. i think downtown could use the economic boost and the developer seems to be a real pro. i'm not convinced downtown needs the office space or the condo units. there seems to be a lot of current supply and little demand.

i worry about bayou place. how will the pavilions project affect this development? will verizon shut down because of house of blues in the pavilions? will everyone go to the new restaurants in the pavilion and forget about bayou place? what about the movie theatre? i hear the pavilions is trying to get a movie theatre. will this force out angelica?

is the theatre crowd and genorous parking enough to keep this development/area viable? are the new buffalo bayou enhancements going to be a big draw of people. how long will the aquarium continue to attract people? will the new office space in bayou place phase 2 bring enough bodies to keep this development healthy?

Dream

There will not be a movie theater at Houston Pavilions. I already checked on that. But, my opinion is that downtown really do needs a movie theater, cause Angelica only plays indie films.

[KimberlySayWhat]

Bayou Place is supposed to be getting a Pancho's Mexican Buffet and I heard it's going to be a really nice one. Shouldn't have any need to worry after that opens up.

[Ethanra]

There will not be a movie theater at Houston Pavilions. I already checked on that. But, my opinion is that downtown really do needs a movie theater, cause Angelica only plays indie films.

"indie films" My wife and I go their, most recently we saw "Pride and Prejudice" their

[Highway6]

"indie films" My wife and I go their, most recently we saw "Pride and Prejudice" their

You go wheir ?

[Jeebus]

Bayou Place is supposed to be getting a Pancho's Mexican Buffet and I heard it's going to be a really nice one. Shouldn't have any need to worry after that opens up.

I don't think there will be too many problems having both. Angelica caters to the indie crowd. I'd only imagine the Pavillions offering a box-office format. I think the same for HOB vs Verizon. Isn't the HOB a small venue (couple hundred?), as opposed to Verizon being able to hold a couple thousand? Now, when it comes to restaurants, Bayou Place is going to have to rely on Angelica & Verizon to bring them customers.

[Ethanra]

You go wheir ?

Angelica Movie Theatre, Someone said they only play Indie films....

[dalparadise]

Angelica Movie Theatre, Someone said they only play Indie films....

That cleirs it up.

[ToolMan]

Here is a list of a few movies I have seen recently at Angelica:

Sin City

Walk The Line

Crash

Dave Chapelle's Block Party

V For Vendetta

I would call those main events.

[dalparadise]

Yeah, Angelika usually devotes one or two screens to mainstream releases. They typically keep to the more refined of the mainstream when they do that, though.

It's about marketing both the theater and smaller movies without advertising budgets to bigger audiences. If you go see a movie there and notice a poster or trailer for an indie film, perhaps you'll come back.

[Montrose1100]

I saw "The Squid and the Whale" at the Angelika. I think it attracts alot of residents, I went on a weeknight, and the Theatre was over half full (and it had been showing for a while by then). I think being right in the heart of the Theatre District, Bayou place & The Aquarium will survive just fine with the Pavillions. Who knows, they might even compete with each other and try to better themselves (which is good for us ).

[h-townsfinest]

bro sonner or later the city is gonna have to grow, we cant thrive on one thing here one thing there, both of these places are going to thrive, the location of Bayou Place is perfect for festivals along the bayou and of course the indie crowd is always going to be there, and Houston Pavilions will be for everyone else, it'll be more mainstream, I mean look at other major cities with a thriving downtown, they dont just have one of anything, they have lots of everything, and in order for us to every see our city grow centrally we have to make it a place for every individual, and Houston is beginning to take the right steps foward

[N Judah]

Maybe someone remembers this better than I do, but when the Angelika first opened up, I think they were more of an indie theater. Then they began hosting more mainstream movies to make more money. I think if a large multiplex opened up on Main then the Angelika would just go back to showing independent films as they did when they first started.

[Subdude]

I think they've always had a mix of independent and some of the less popular mainstream movies. It seems they show more of the mainstream movies when the indie circuit is slow.

[Houstonian in Iraq]

I think both these projects can survive. I met up with some friends at Slicks. Well parking was pretty bad, I didn't feel like paying for it. So I parked in the post office parking lot. On my way to Slicks I walked by the aqaurium and there was live Zydaco music jamming and loads of people walking around. I think the combination of the aqurium, theaters, bayou place and the bayou lighting will will make for a different and vibrant area.

The Pavilions will also bring some more diversity to downtown with retail and other ameniteis. So the two shouldn't be compared just appreciated

[Highway6]

I think both these projects can survive. I met up with some friends at Slicks. Well parking was pretty bad, I didn't feel like paying for it. So I parked in the post office parking lot. On my way to Slicks I walked by the aqaurium and there was live Zydaco music jamming and loads of people walking around. I think the combination of the aqurium, theaters, bayou place and the bayou lighting will will make for a different and vibrant area.

The Pavilions will also bring some more diversity to downtown with retail and other ameniteis. So the two shouldn't be compared just appreciated

What is the latest on the groundbreaking date for the pavillions.

I haven't been following that thread as much as others... is there even an approximate date set ?

[Houstonian in Iraq]

What is the latest on the groundbreaking date for the pavillions.

I haven't been following that thread as much as others... is there even an approximate date set ?

I think ground breaking is still in May and completion late in '07.

but New Juniper said

They are going to have to start going pretty quick as the interest on that land will pile up in a hurry.

Residential is the sticking point. Too expensive and they are waiting on Mayor White to make a decision on ponying up more cash.

Without the cash from the city, and they are about $7MM apart, this deal goes nowhere....

You heard it here first...

He or she hasn't elaborated or provided any details so no telling.

I would like to be a bit optimistic and think it's still good to go

[The New Juniper]

I think ground breaking is still in May and completion late in '07.

but New Juniper said He or she hasn't elaborated or provided any details so no telling.

I would like to be a bit optimistic and think it's still good to go

Still nothing on my end....

Every day that goes by, pressure gets a little greater.

[h-townsfinest]

again why would the House of Blues lease space at Pavilions only for it to never happen?

[Dream]

Still nothing on my end....

Every day that goes by, pressure gets a little greater.

Juniper,

You seem to be the guy on the inside on all of these developments. What kind of money will the city be kicking in on the pavillions project? I thought the special TIRZ was a done deal and this development was moving forward. I also thought White was staying away from redevelopment loans after the Magnolia and Crown Plaza defaulted on loan payments to the city. So any feedback you have would quench my curiosity.

What about Bayou Place? Is Cordish a good master lease holder? Have they fulfilled their promises to the City 8 years into this project? By converting phase 2 into office space I wonder if Cordish is giving up on retail? Don't we have a glut of office space downtown? Where do you see Bayou Place in 5 or 10 years?

Dream

[TxDave]

I hope Bayou Place will continue to thrive - it was such an important driver in the reinvigoration of downtown.

It may have to change its focus a little, but its location in the center of the Theater District is prime.

Given the success of everything else happening downtown, it doesn't have to be the primary lure anymore. It should be able to capitalize on the draw of everything else.

If properly managed, it can remain a popular destination downtown for a long time.

[nmm]

Houston just isnt that kind of a city. Houston isnt New York, Chicago, Seattle, or San Francisco. Its more or less something like Los Angeles.

From what i have seen, Chicago, New York, Seattle and San Francisco are restricted by space and geography. Houston isnt - roughly 25% of Houston isnt even developed yet.

Chicago, NY and San Fran have their downtowns located in very inconvenient places for a person to travel back and forth all day. The traffic is attrocious and congested. Houston isnt like that. We have our highway arteries from every corner of the city leading into downtown, and with so much empty space, the average joe would rather live a ten minute drive farther north where he can actually find a house for the same price as a midtown condo.

I mean its nice and all that houston's downtown is gentrifying and cleaning up, but we arent like other cities. Our business districts are split into 4 areas: downtown, greenspoint, galleria/greenway plaza and Clear Lake/Port of Houston.

[nmainguy]

one thing i dont understand is why they need people to "live" in downtown?

Maybe it's not a "need".

It may be merely a want.

[MiDTOWNeR]

There will not be a movie theater at Houston Pavilions. I already checked on that. But, my opinion is that downtown really do needs a movie theater, cause Angelica only plays indie films.

Why would downtown need a movie theater? There should be plenty of other fun things to do.

[desirous]

Why would downtown need a movie theater? There should be plenty of other fun things to do.

Because movies are fun too. And also, there is no movie theater within many, many miles. The closest I believe is Edwards Greenway; in other directions the closest lies outside the Loop.

[nmainguy]

There will not be a movie theater at Houston Pavilions. I already checked on that. But, my opinion is that downtown really do needs a movie theater, cause Angelica only plays indie films.

I checked on that as well. The developers have ruled nothing out-including a cinema.

[TxDave]

Now that the Houston Pavilions development is underway, how do you think it will compare (compliment/compete) with Bayou Place - Downtown's other large entertainment/retail venue?

[TheNiche]

Now that the Houston Pavilions development is underway, how do you think it will compare (compliment/compete) with Bayou Place - Downtown's other large entertainment/retail venue?

To me, it depends a lot on the parking arrangements. Anyone not familiar with downtown or the Theater District underground parking garages will have trouble accessing Bayou Place. I accidentally stood someone up the first time I went there for that very reason. I knew where my final destination was, but all the on-street parking was taken, I wasn't sure whether the Angelika could validate parking or if it could, for which garages, and once I'd finally parked underground, I was completely disoriented. It was a very stressful ordeal and I was very very late. Being the cheapskate that I am, I didn't have a cell phone, so it was a total loss. Left a bad taste in my mouth (and unfortunately it was NOT because she was a smoker ).

It seems like HP will be much more car-friendly, which is good because I'm not very transit-friendly. I also gravitate to books more than movies.

[KinkaidAlum]

I think Bayou Place will do just fine. The Angelika and Verizon Wireless Theater will still be draws. Also, the new places that have opened this year are stunning looking, especially the restaurant VIN and the lounge called Mosaic.

Additionally, with downtown's office market so hot and the energy business booming (meaning more folks are coming to town and filling the downtown hotels during the week), I think there is plenty of room for both.

The latest downtown announcement, Toronto-based the Bank of Nova Scotia will open a 35,000 office in Pennzoil Place's south tower and transfer 17 people from Atlanta. Scotiabank will also hire 30 or so more people over the next 3 years. The new space at Pennzoil increased their downtown space by about 12,500 square feet.