Archbishop Fiorenza Plaza - 1111 Pierce Street (Former 1911 Co-Cathedral of the Sacred Heart)

[004n063]

9 hours ago, steve1363 said:

I don’t begrudge the church for wanting a better parking solution for people that go there

I do.

[j_cuevas713]

11 hours ago, steve1363 said:

That’s part of the problem being addressed.  Unless you go to the church and know there is a small rectory parking lot in the back you are left to find street parking.

I went to a funeral mass on a Wednesday morning recently.  Many people arrived late due to parking issues and the procession to the cemetery was problematic due to the lack of cohesive parking.  

I’m not a member but I don’t begrudge the church for wanting a better parking solution for people that go there.

They easily could have found a way to coordinate a lease with an existing lot or garage

[Houston19514]

There are clearly ways for large urban churches to accommodate mid-week visitors without having a full-block parking lot across the street from their front door.  Christ Church Cathedral, also in downtown Houston manages.  Again, do they really regularly need 144 spaces midweek?

I just watched the "announcement" of this project the priest made from the pulpit a couple months back.  They are almost as disingenuous as the Houston Endowment was in their moral posturing about their new HQ building.  They actually said this is their contribution to the ongoing revitalization and beautification of this end of downtown Houston.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Houston19514

[j_cuevas713]

Blasphemy 

[editor]

On 6/26/2023 at 9:51 AM, Houston19514 said:

Yeah, they could have created a lovely green space/plaza fronting the Cathedral, and even included some parking.  Instead they seem to be going ahead with an asphalt lot with a small corner "plaza" (if the renderings are any indication, it is not even worthy of the title "plaza".  Woo-Hoo!  They are using 1/10th of the block for their pathetic little plaza.  Just imagine the "events" they will be able to hold in that space.  .  It's an insult to the late Archbishop. Members/Attendees, please give them feedback on their funding requests.

In an ideal world, they world have a parking deck underground, and put greenspace/events space on top.  But the cathedral is running a deficit ($375,398 for this year alone, so far), so I imagine they went with the cheapest option.

Maybe they're just banking the land, expecting its value to go up when the Pierce Elevated comes down so it can be sold for development at a better price than is available now.

On 6/26/2023 at 4:50 PM, steve1363 said:

The church needs surface parking for midweek services.  Haters are gonna hate… whatever.

Why?  Plenty of space in the Amegy garage next door.  And the Archdioceses' lot a block away isn't anywhere near maximum capacity, either.  There's no shortage of parking in that area.

[editor]

On 6/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, steve1363 said:

I went to a funeral mass on a Wednesday morning recently.  Many people arrived late due to parking issues and the procession to the cemetery was problematic due to the lack of cohesive parking.

That's not a parking problem, that's a problem with the funeral home.  It's their responsibility to make sure everyone knows where to park and what to do.  Also, the cathedral should have more information about parking on its web site, but that thing has been "under construction" for at least a year.

On 6/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, steve1363 said:

I’m not a member but I don’t begrudge the church for wanting a better parking solution for people that go there.

I am, and I do. 

[Nate99]

The parking situation downtown is by no means difficult, but a lot of people get hung up on it.  They had a derelict building that they didn't know what to do with and a bunch of people complaining about finding a place to park. Whatever other use the block may have had, or might have eventually, I'm in the "don't begrudge" camp watching them spin this as a good thing and move on.

I doubt they care that much about real estate at this point, or at least (as a "dues paying member" of the diocese) I hope that they don't.  To the extent that there are laity within the diocese that would manage such things for them on a volunteer basis, perhaps they could offer to do so, but who knows if the bishop would be receptive or who gets to make that particular call in his office. 

[editor]

8 hours ago, Nate99 said:

The parking situation downtown is by no means difficult, but a lot of people get hung up on it.  They had a derelict building that they didn't know what to do with and a bunch of people complaining about finding a place to park. Whatever other use the block may have had, or might have eventually, I'm in the "don't begrudge" camp watching them spin this as a good thing and move on.

I doubt they care that much about real estate at this point, or at least (as a "dues paying member" of the diocese) I hope that they don't.  To the extent that there are laity within the diocese that would manage such things for them on a volunteer basis, perhaps they could offer to do so, but who knows if the bishop would be receptive or who gets to make that particular call in his office. 

Would the bishop be involved at all?

I haven't been involved with Galveston-Houston the way I have been at other archdioceses, but in the ones I'm familiar with, this would be a parish-level decision. 

Like when the roof of the church I went to caught fire during renovations, the archdiocese wouldn't help us pay for a new one.

[Ross]

2 hours ago, editor said:

Would the bishop be involved at all?

I haven't been involved with Galveston-Houston the way I have been at other archdioceses, but in the ones I'm familiar with, this would be a parish-level decision. 

Like when the roof of the church I went to caught fire during renovations, the archdiocese wouldn't help us pay for a new one.

The property is owned by the Arch-Diocese of Galveston Houston, and was not a parish church, as it was the co-Cathedral along with the one in Galveston. When they were building the new cathedral, the arch diocese was very involved. The arch diocese then annoyed most of the people who go to Sacred Heart by reassigning Father Troy, a main participant in the new building, to St John Vianney. When the folks complained, the Arch Diocese told them to stop moaning and that church decisions were none of their business and that all priests are the same.

[hbg.50]

31 minutes ago, Ross said:

The property is owned by the Arch-Diocese of Galveston Houston, and was not a parish church, as it was the co-Cathedral along with the one in Galveston. When they were building the new cathedral, the arch diocese was very involved. The arch diocese then annoyed most of the people who go to Sacred Heart by reassigning Father Troy, a main participant in the new building, to St John Vianney. When the folks complained, the Arch Diocese told them to stop moaning and that church decisions were none of their business and that all priests are the same.

Facts!  Father Troy was super popular and the main fundraiser for the new cathedral…a little too popular for the archdiocese.

[editor]

12 hours ago, Ross said:

The property is owned by the Arch-Diocese of Galveston Houston, and was not a parish church, as it was the co-Cathedral along with the one in Galveston

Interesting, thanks.

By contrast, Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago does separate its parish from the archdiocese.  Interesting that it's not consistent. Perhaps because Holy Name existed before the Archdiocese of Chicago was split off from the Archdiocese of Peoria.

(Trivia: A couple of weeks ago, the Archdiocese of Las Vegas was created, split off from the Archdiocese of San Francisco.)

[ATH]

21 hours ago, Ross said:

The property is owned by the Arch-Diocese of Galveston Houston, and was not a parish church, as it was the co-Cathedral along with the one in Galveston. When they were building the new cathedral, the arch diocese was very involved. The arch diocese then annoyed most of the people who go to Sacred Heart by reassigning Father Troy, a main participant in the new building, to St John Vianney. When the folks complained, the Arch Diocese told them to stop moaning and that church decisions were none of their business and that all priests are the same.

I think Father Troy would tell you that he came out ahead in that deal......

[editor]

Following up to my own somewhat-off-topic post, I got a letter in the mail today from Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York, and it makes a distinction between the parish and the cathedral, too.

It reminds me that there is a basic distinction between a church/cathedral and a parish in modern Catholicism.  There are plenty of churches and cathedrals with multiple parishes (many in Chicagoland), there are parishes with no church (I've seen this in Seattle), and even churches with no parish (Las Vegas).

I think that was the root of my confusion above.  I've long seen the two as distinct entities.

[staresatmaps]

On 6/29/2023 at 8:32 PM, Ross said:

The property is owned by the Arch-Diocese of Galveston Houston, and was not a parish church, as it was the co-Cathedral along with the one in Galveston. When they were building the new cathedral, the arch diocese was very involved. The arch diocese then annoyed most of the people who go to Sacred Heart by reassigning Father Troy, a main participant in the new building, to St John Vianney. When the folks complained, the Arch Diocese told them to stop moaning and that church decisions were none of their business and that all priests are the same.

Isn't it common policy to transfer newish priests every 2-4 years? That way they can gain more experience in different settings before being "promoted" to a main pastor or other position.

[Ross]

3 hours ago, staresatmaps said:

Isn't it common policy to transfer newish priests every 2-4 years? That way they can gain more experience in different settings before being "promoted" to a main pastor or other position.

Father Troy was the pastor at Sacred Heart. He was too popular with the church goers for the Arch Diocese, hence the transfer out West to St John Vianney. Folks were unhappy https://www.chron.com/life/houston-belief/article/Transfer-of-pastor-may-cost-Co-Cathedral-500-000-1783555.php

Another piece with some great comments https://www.patheos.com/blogs/voxnova/2008/05/26/unnecessary-controversy-surrounding-fr-gatelys-transfer/

I am not Catholic, but attended Sacred Heart with my wife during the time we were doing the baptism training for our son. Father Troy is an amazing pastor who can speak to all. I had several great conversations with him about why I wouldn't convert. He wasn't judgmental and treated me with respect.

At the top, the Catholic Church is very political, and this was an occasion where it came out.

[editor]

On 7/1/2023 at 7:55 PM, Ross said:

Father Troy was the pastor at Sacred Heart. He was too popular with the church goers for the Arch Diocese, hence the transfer out West to St John Vianney.

How long was he at the cathedral?  
 

i ask because priests get transferred all the time. A priest I was going off got transferred once and when I asked him about it, he said that unless there's a school attached to the parish, it's unusual for a priest to be stationed at a church for more than five years. 

[hbg.50]

22 minutes ago, editor said:

How long was he at the cathedral?  
 

i ask because priests get transferred all the time. A priest I was going off got transferred once and when I asked him about it, he said that unless there's a school attached to the parish, it's unusual for a priest to be stationed at a church for more than five years. 

Answer was in The Chronicle article…. 

“The archdiocese does not comment on pastoral assignments, spokesman Erik Noriega said earlier this week. Noriega said Gately's transfer to replace a retiring priest at St. John Vianney is consistent with "standard procedure." Most priests get moved to a different parish every six years or so, he said.

Gately, who also could not be reached for comment Friday, has been rector at the Co-Cathedral since 1999.”

That was in 2008

[Ross]

49 minutes ago, editor said:

How long was he at the cathedral?  
 

i ask because priests get transferred all the time. A priest I was going off got transferred once and when I asked him about it, he said that unless there's a school attached to the parish, it's unusual for a priest to be stationed at a church for more than five years. 

I believe he was halfway through his second 6 year assignment at Sacred Heart. The Arch Diocese gets to do what it wants, but it was very sudden and annoyed a lot of people. Father Troy asked to complete the full term, but was told no. The new building wasn't quite done, and the chancery work wasn't complete either. He had been very sick for a while during construction of the new cathedral, due to stress and travel. I liked Father Troy. His homilies were decent and Mass was done on schedule instead of dragging out like my wife and son have told me it does now. Father Troy is far more charismatic and interesting.

If priests get moved every 5 years, why has Father Troy been at SJV since 2008? That's 15 years.

Another good priest was Father Rivers Patout, pastor at St Alphonsus on Manchester Street just outside the loop for 20 years. That's where my wife's grandmother went to church. He did her funeral mass and I had a chance to talk to him after. Another good guy. He was also the main chaplain for the seafarers hall in the Port of Houston. Obituary here https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/houston-tx/rivers-patout-5995647

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

Permeable parking lot.

[hindesky]

Architect - https://www.studioredarchitects.com

Edited October 6, 2023 by hindesky

[Houston19514]

"Parking Lot with worship wall/storage building."  😱

[Texasota]

They are my enemy.

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

Work has started.

[editor]

For reference, since this is a new thread:

WhitePaper_AFP_022223.pdf

30 minutes ago:

 

[editor]

Since we're moving into a construction phase, I've created a new thread for the new project:

 

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

[hindesky]

Forney is the contractor.

https://forneyconstruction.com

 

I couldn't tell what that material was, turns out it's plywood sheets when I drove by.