North Canal Project

[bobruss]

I don't know what all the fuss is. We have seen several park projects around town developed in the last ten years and the affect they have had on the surrounding areas. What happened when Discovery Green, and Market Square Park were created or redesigned. Both have shown how development follows. Nobody hung out on Crawford and Mckinney back when I lived on the east side of downtown. Now try and find a parking place around that area. Look at the residential towers that have been built around Market Square park since its revitalization.

For too long people have settled for bare bones solutions. Great cities think ahead and come up with solutions that are both helpful in mitigating problems, while creating solutions that invite development.

Also when my wife and I were looking back in the 90's at property over near Washington Ave. we thought there was a lot of potential for future growth and a lively neighborhood. I felt like there was too much heavy industry and railroad tracks and that it would be a long way off. There was a steel plant right on the corner of Yale and Washington. There were heavy polluters in old metal warehouses. It looked bleak but look at it now. So don't ever tell me how bad an area looks. You have to have vision to see the bones to understand future growth patterns. The jails could probably be moved and with property values going up that might be in the back of the mind of county fathers anyway. There are jails everywhere and other cities have made those areas workable neighborhoods. 

[j_cuevas713]

18 hours ago, bobruss said:

I don't know what all the fuss is. We have seen several park projects around town developed in the last ten years and the affect they have had on the surrounding areas. What happened when Discovery Green, and Market Square Park were created or redesigned. Both have shown how development follows. Nobody hung out on Crawford and Mckinney back when I lived on the east side of downtown. Now try and find a parking place around that area. Look at the residential towers that have been built around Market Square park since its revitalization.

For too long people have settled for bare bones solutions. Great cities think ahead and come up with solutions that are both helpful in mitigating problems, while creating solutions that invite development.

Also when my wife and I were looking back in the 90's at property over near Washington Ave. we thought there was a lot of potential for future growth and a lively neighborhood. I felt like there was too much heavy industry and railroad tracks and that it would be a long way off. There was a steel plant right on the corner of Yale and Washington. There were heavy polluters in old metal warehouses. It looked bleak but look at it now. So don't ever tell me how bad an area looks. You have to have vision to see the bones to understand future growth patterns. The jails could probably be moved and with property values going up that might be in the back of the mind of county fathers anyway. There are jails everywhere and other cities have made those areas workable neighborhoods. 

Exactly! We've seen this pattern over and over and over. That area may have a ton of jails but it sure as hell has a ton of potential as well. I'm excited to see the city converting those existing buildings in to affordable housing and with everything Urban Genesis is doing, I say in 5 years this area won't be recognizable. 

[Nate99]

Tons of potential along the bayou there, and I doubt there are shortages of interesting visions. Seems to me if you moved the jails, you would get a massive pop in value for everything on the north side of downtown and accelerate interest north of the bayou up toward St Arnolds/Warehouse District.  Houston's growth doesn't seem to be slowing much, and we're going to need some density to make that work. Moving the jails and making that area residential wouldn't be too painful for anyone and would be an easier place to live in densely given the location. 

[Ross]

4 hours ago, Nate99 said:

Tons of potential along the bayou there, and I doubt there are shortages of interesting visions. Seems to me if you moved the jails, you would get a massive pop in value for everything on the north side of downtown and accelerate interest north of the bayou up toward St Arnolds/Warehouse District.  Houston's growth doesn't seem to be slowing much, and we're going to need some density to make that work. Moving the jails and making that area residential wouldn't be too painful for anyone and would be an easier place to live in densely given the location. 

Where would you put the jails? Keep in mind that with the current setup, the jails are close to the courthouse, so it's not a big deal to take inmates to their court cases. The majority of inmates are awaiting trial, and have not been convicted of the crimes they've been charged with, which means many of them have to go to the courthouse every day.

[bobruss]

You are correct about the way the jails and courts work. The thing that bothers me is how the county ended up with the most interesting property in downtown. They own most of the land north of Preston from Main to Austin. The county just purchased a 17 story office building at 1111 Fannin to consolidate their offices downtown. That would seem to me to suggest they might have several old dated properties in north downtown available for sale in the future. Or they could consolidate all of the prisoners in a new jail built on one of those buildings sites adjacent to or in very close proximity to the courts. There is an 8 - 10 story jail on Franklin and Caroline, that sits empty due to poor design. A new jail needs to be built. Perhaps they could be persuaded to rethink the management of their property downtown to more efficient use. They could also make a lot of money if they sold some of that land. Both sides of the bayou should be parkland. The old buildings that sit in the flood plane and deter the flow of Buffalo Bayou are doing no-one any good. Up until a few years ago there was a jail across the street from Minute Maid Park on the north end of Crawford at Preston. There is still a Federal prison in downtown on Texas Ave. and San Jacinto. My point being that a jail need not interfere with the surrounding area. I doubt that most people even knew they existed.

[hindesky]

I think the county jail at Caroline and Franklin is scheduled to be demolished at some point.

[Big E]

On 6/8/2022 at 4:12 PM, bobruss said:

The jails could probably be moved and with property values going up that might be in the back of the mind of county fathers anyway.

 

20 hours ago, Nate99 said:

Seems to me if you moved the jails, you would get a massive pop in value for everything on the north side of downtown and accelerate interest north of the bayou up toward St Arnolds/Warehouse District.

There has has been exactly zero talk about moving the jails or courthouses. This is true despite the fact that the courthouse buildings are badly designed and heavily susceptible to flooding. County offices are now spread around multiple buildings, across multiple blocks along the bayou's south bank, while the jails, sheriff's office, and prisoner intake take up the north bank. This area isn't going to see any explosive growth because all of the best land is tied up in institutional uses. Ironically the East River site would have probably been perfect to build an entire new civic center for this purpose due to its large size and central location next to downtown. The county could have even worked with the city to build a new Public Safety complex and Police HQ, since the city is looking to move HPDHQ, Central Precinct, and city courts anyway. Instead, the city pursued the old post office (the one that got redeveloped) and didn't get it.

Now, I don't know where the county or city would move since everything else is developed. Buy up an existing industrial area nobody would miss? That warehouse area between Spur 5, Gulf Freeway, and the railroad tracks? I got nothing.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Big E

[Nate99]

I wasn't trying to imply it was realistic or likely, just that it could make for a really cool area if the jails weren't taking up so much space and repelling neighbors. It could plausibly pay for itself via land value and higher tax value after the fact, but that's just speculation.  All that said, the county likely doesn't care all that much and they would be controlling the deal. Didn't they just finish a brand new facility too?

But as for where to relocate, just pick your personal least favorite corner of the county.  I'd pick something industrial off Almeda or maybe next to one of our landfills. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Nate99

[Nate99]

8 hours ago, Big E said:

 

 Ironically the East River site would have probably been perfect to build an entire new civic center for this purpose due to its large size and central location next to downtown. 

 

I guess it's too late to swap the entirety of the bayou frontage downtown for East River. That does seem better. 

[editor]

On 6/10/2022 at 12:03 AM, Big E said:

There has has been exactly zero talk about moving the jails or courthouses

This is not entirely correct.

There's a plan to consolidate the courthouses and such into the area of Houston/Dart/I-45/Memorial.  It's being called the "cops and courts complex," and is supposed to have two light rail stations connected to either the Purple or Green lines.   

[Houston19514]

1 minute ago, editor said:

This is not entirely correct.

There's a plan to consolidate the courthouses and such into the area of Houston/Dart/I-45/Memorial.  It's being called the "cops and courts complex," and is supposed to have two light rail stations connected to either the Purple or Green lines.   

That is the city court and police complex.  Has nothing to do with the county courthouse and jail complex being discussed here.

[editor]

22 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

That is the city court and police complex.  Has nothing to do with the county courthouse and jail complex being discussed here.

Thanks for the correction.  I'm still not used to the layers upon layers of policing that exist in Houston.

I think the last time I was in Houston, I wasn't ever able to put together a mental model of all the overlapping and dueling badges out there.

[hindesky]

Best Drilling Services has been doing core drilling where I dropped the pin at the Metro parking lot that is also used by Sherrif's deputies. I asked them what it was for but these guys rarely know anything. I have a feeling this could be for the North Canal project.

https://bestdrilling.com

Edited January 25, 2023 by hindesky

[hindesky]

I only posted the San Jacinto St. portion but the link below also has the sections under IH 69 and at the Yale and Heights bridges.

http://www.houstontx.gov/council/h/infrastructure/North-Canal-Project-2022-March.pdf

Edited January 24, 2023 by hindesky

[hindesky]

 

[hindesky]

[rechlin]

Looks like the proposed reroute of the UPRR line is dead, if they are going to be building a new bridge for it.  That's unfortunate.

[sapo2367]

https://communityimpact.com/houston/heights-river-oaks-montrose/environment/2021/05/20/houston-oks-11-million-contract-for-north-canal-project-design/

[hindesky]

"On Feb. 8, Houston City Council approved ordinance to approve funding  for the North Canal Project. The North Canal Project is an extensive flood detention and mitigation plan designed to reduce the risk of flooding.

In addition to the north canal channel, which is to be built at the confluence of Buffalo Bayou and White Oak Bayou, the project also entails a south canal channel along Buffalo Bayou's southern side at I-69. In addition, upstream improvements will be made to White Oak Bayou at the Yale Street and Heights Boulevard bridges.

Worth about $131 million, the project will begin in winter 2025 and is expected to be complete in fall 2029, according to Houston Public Works."

https://communityimpact.com/houston/heights-river-oaks-montrose/city-county/2023/02/07/city-of-houston-moves-forward-with-north-canal-project/

 

[j_cuevas713]

So much will be finished by 2030

[Triton]

What are the details on the improvements coming to Yale and Heights Blvd bridges?

[hindesky]

[bookey23]

Where did these screenshots come from?

[hindesky]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:54 PM, Triton said:

What are the details on the improvements coming to Yale and Heights Blvd bridges?

District H Council person Karla Cisneros has the most information on her council District H web site about the North Canal project.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/h/infrastructure/North-Canal-Project-2022-March.pdf

 

...... and many more diagrams. I'm signed up for updates on this project and got the above previous post about the latest update.

 

[hindesky]

7 minutes ago, bookey23 said:

Where did these screenshots come from?

I have signed up for projects that I have interest in from the "Engage Houston" web site. They sent this email about it.

https://www.engagehouston.org

District H  Council woman Karla Cisneros has the most info about the North Canal and has a PDF about it.

https://www.houstontx.gov/council/h/infrastructure.html

[Jrr]

Any updates on the 2 buildings that sit on the corner of Wood St and N San Jacinto St?  Looks like they are part of this project so does that mean they will be torn down?  Shouldn’t these buildings have a historical designation?  The address for 1 is 915 N San Jacinto St.  Should we start another topic with this address?  

[hindesky]

I talked with the guy running the E scooters and E bikes store who confirmed it will be taken down but he didn't know a timeline and continue to lease his store till given a firm date.

[j_cuevas713]

This is a sad loss. I wish there was away to save these structures. 

[Jrr]

11 minutes ago, j_cuevas713 said:

This is a sad loss. I wish there was away to save these structures. 

Are the buildings old enough to qualify as Historical Structures?  Does anyone know how to make that happen or get these designated?

[j_cuevas713]

5 minutes ago, Jrr said:

Are the buildings old enough to qualify as Historical Structures?  Does anyone know how to make that happen or get these designated?

I'm sure they are but I think the North Canal would have to be rerouted somehow and at this point I'm not sure it's possible. Unless the official route isn't set in stone but I'm no engineer.