I-45 Rebuild (North Houston Highway Improvement Project)

[hindesky]

"Community activists and Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee separately denounced the slated demolition of nearly 400 housing units near Minute Maid Park for the Texas Department of Transportation’s expansion of Interstate 45."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Plan-to-demolish-apartments-near-Minute-Maid-Park-17255957.php

[mattyt36]

33 minutes ago, samagon said:

however, recommending an alternate path for through traffic? not sure how that could be a bad thing. 

Not a bad thing, but it sure as heck won't solve much.  (Granted, it seems for whatever reason that is immaterial from your perspective.)

[houstontexasjack]

I’m not sure if this has been shared, but it appears TXDOT is hoping to start construction on Segment 3a (the trenching of I-69 between Museum Park and Midtown) in 2024:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c8eyTDoJIs7NerzNWVtzxC-3QSeiag6P/view

 

[hindesky]

"The City of Houston will temporarily delay granting demolition permits to the Texas Department of Transportation while federal authorities review their acquisition of the Lofts at the Ballpark near Minute Maid Park, city officials said on Wednesday."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-to-delay-demolition-of-apartments-near-17258539.php

[mattyt36]

24 minutes ago, hindesky said:

"The City of Houston will temporarily delay granting demolition permits to the Texas Department of Transportation while federal authorities review their acquisition of the Lofts at the Ballpark near Minute Maid Park, city officials said on Wednesday."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-to-delay-demolition-of-apartments-near-17258539.php

Inanity.

“This expansion has really affected people in the city the last couple of years, and it’s going to be important for (TxDOT) to work with us and be honest and transparent. Things move so quickly, and we already have a housing shortage...and we can’t displace any more people in the city,” Plummer said.

She seems to be oblivious to the fact that all the residents have already moved out.

“It would be a shame if the building comes down in the future, and especially if all three do. Our message to the city is to hold off until you find a solution that allows them to stay up,” Moritz said.

That's quite the statement.

[X.R.]

44 minutes ago, houstontexasjack said:

I’m not sure if this has been shared, but it appears TXDOT is hoping to start construction on Segment 3a (the trenching of I-69 between Museum Park and Midtown) in 2024:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1c8eyTDoJIs7NerzNWVtzxC-3QSeiag6P/view

 

lol, so they're anticipating beginning when a new administration is on its way to DC.

It doesn't seem like their efforts in other parts of the state is really gaining traction either, from the dally morning news: 

Following December 2019 public meetings, TxDOT said 27% of 849 people indicated that they wanted I-345 to remain untouched. About 31% said they wanted a depressed highway, while 27% wanted it fully removed. In 2021, 66% of roughly 1,000 people surveyed said that they wanted the highway kept in place, noting that many commuters from parts of southern Dallas use I-345 to travel north.

I dunno guys and gals, the longer our project drags the worse it gets for TxDot. Its not like this somehow becomes MORE politically popular over time, lol. I mean, community sentiment is going the wrong way in Dallas over a much smaller project. And if we have another bad flood [god forbid] I'm not sure "lets dig a giant hole and put a freeway in it" is going to play well. Then we gotta tell Houstonians to adopt a different traffic flow for 5+ years as they work on this, and during COVID we were like "yeah that could work" but now the freeways are full again and I'm not sure if that's feasible without destroying everyone's commute. I'm for certain parts of the project, but for a bunch of factors that aren't all just political, this is starting to feel like a dog that won't hunt. 

[mattyt36]

56 minutes ago, X.R. said:

Following December 2019 public meetings, TxDOT said 27% of 849 people indicated that they wanted I-345 to remain untouched. About 31% said they wanted a depressed highway, while 27% wanted it fully removed. In 2021, 66% of roughly 1,000 people surveyed said that they wanted the highway kept in place, noting that many commuters from parts of southern Dallas use I-345 to travel north.

849 people in a city of more than 1 million people in a metro area of more than 8 million.  It's never good when public policy outcomes are determined by the loudest voices.

1 hour ago, X.R. said:

I mean, community sentiment is going the wrong way in Dallas over a much smaller project. 

I do not get that conclusion from this statistic:

31% + 27% = 58% of 849 people in favor of keeping the highway is in line with 66% of a different 1,000 people 2 years later.

1 hour ago, X.R. said:

Its not like this somehow becomes MORE politically popular over time, lol.

I don't think one can label the current state of affairs is exactly "politically popular."

The truth of the matter is the vast majority of the community just isn't engaged.  It's a matter of making the simple case between the status quo and "doing something," just as it always has been.

Avoiding "doing something" that affects hundreds of thousands of people a day because, for example, some group thinks private housing that was bought with gas tax monies for the express purpose of building a freeway should be converted to a measly 400 units of public housing--I can assure you--that will definitely not be politically popular, not to mention illegal.

[JLWM8609]

8 hours ago, editor said:

When the interstate highway system was built, that was the intent.  Traffic to a city uses different roads than traffic through a city.  It's why loop roads start with even numbers, and spurs start with odd numbers. 

 

In some small towns, the US highway that the Interstate replaced would deviate from the Interstate and go through town while the Interstate bypassed it. If the US highway was decommissioned, they'd turn it into the Interstate's Business Loop/ Business Route, like Business Loop 45 in towns south of Dallas along routes that were formerly US 75.

[texan]

7 hours ago, hindesky said:

"The City of Houston will temporarily delay granting demolition permits to the Texas Department of Transportation while federal authorities review their acquisition of the Lofts at the Ballpark near Minute Maid Park, city officials said on Wednesday."

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Houston-to-delay-demolition-of-apartments-near-17258539.php

Why are he and Jackson Lee framing this as if they had no idea about it? Are they that disconnected or are they taking the opportunity to cash in on political clout?

And on the net-zero housing pledge demands: I'm pretty sure that will happen naturally when these lots are replaced with something twice as tall with less parking...

[samagon]

18 hours ago, JLWM8609 said:

In some small towns, the US highway that the Interstate replaced would deviate from the Interstate and go through town while the Interstate bypassed it. If the US highway was decommissioned, they'd turn it into the Interstate's Business Loop/ Business Route, like Business Loop 45 in towns south of Dallas along routes that were formerly US 75.

'business route' is another example that would typically take the original highway route through the middle of town vs the interstate which would take a new route around the edge of town.

[editor]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:46 PM, texan said:

are they taking the opportunity to cash in on political clout?

Things like this are why when I worked in TV news, she was often referred to as "Sheila Jackson Me."

[Tumbleweed_Tx]

7 hours ago, editor said:

Things like this are why when I worked in TV news, she was often referred to as "Sheila Jackson Me."

the most dangerous place in Houston is anywhere between her and a tv camera

[Ross]

56 minutes ago, Tumbleweed_Tx said:

the most dangerous place in Houston is anywhere between her and a tv camera

Fixed it for you🤣

Ask the Cambodian refugees she trampled years back.

[HoustonMidtown]

Some demo has started

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by HoustonMidtown

[Houston19514]

I must say, I don't really understand why they had to buy, let alone completely demolish, all three blocks.  I wish their recent communication had at least attempted to explain that.

[samagon]

3 minutes ago, Houston19514 said:

I must say, I don't really understand why they had to buy, let alone completely demolish, all three blocks.  I wish their recent communication had at least attempted to explain that.

Yeah, txdot pr is horrible. 

[Big E]

On 6/22/2022 at 9:46 PM, texan said:

Why are he and Jackson Lee framing this as if they had no idea about it? Are they that disconnected or are they taking the opportunity to cash in on political clout?

Obvious answer is obvious.

 

9 hours ago, Houston19514 said:

I must say, I don't really understand why they had to buy, let alone completely demolish, all three blocks.  I wish their recent communication had at least attempted to explain that.

Good question. Pretty sure the required ROW stops at Emanuel Street. I doubt the owners are sweating it though; they got a lot of money for that land.

 

On 6/22/2022 at 3:10 PM, X.R. said:

., so they're anticipating beginning when a new administration is on its way to DC.

I mean, shoot man, the way things are going now, that may realistic be the earliest they can start on it. I'm hoping that once the Dems get the crap kicked out of them at the midterms, things will get going again.

[samagon]

11 hours ago, Big E said:

Good question. Pretty sure the required ROW stops at Emanuel Street. I doubt the owners are sweating it though; they got a lot of money for that land.

it does end at Emanuel.

if I were a business owner and 1/3 of my business were about to be taken over by TXDoT, I'd make it very clear the easy acquisition would be to buy all of it for a price I was happy with, or they could fight tooth and nail, and probably end up paying the same for just 1/3 of the property. 

TXDoT probably saw it as a great way to get land that they could use for staging equipment, raw material, and prep things onsite.

 

[hindesky]

These guys are ready to tear something up.

[texan]

9 hours ago, samagon said:

it does end at Emanuel.

if I were a business owner and 1/3 of my business were about to be taken over by TXDoT, I'd make it very clear the easy acquisition would be to buy all of it for a price I was happy with, or they could fight tooth and nail, and probably end up paying the same for just 1/3 of the property. 

TXDoT probably saw it as a great way to get land that they could use for staging equipment, raw material, and prep things onsite.

 

I think this is exactly what happened. Leaving the two blocks with 55-60% of the units of the original development (since the block right by the rail stop is essentially just a parking garage with a small number of units and a full block of units absolutely had to be taken out) probably majorly ruined the business case on the remaining part of the development. In the end they'll definitely need it for staging and when the project is all said and done it will more than likely be redeveloped into much larger transit oriented residential development that doesn't put a parking garage right next to a light rail stop (which has got to be a Houston joke).

[TacoDog]

Maybe the Dynamo/Dash can buy the block closest to PNC Stadium like the Astros have done around MMP. 

[mattyt36]

I hate to ask, but can anyone enlighten as to the current status of the HTR extension?

[Big E]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:19 AM, mattyt36 said:

I hate to ask, but can anyone enlighten as to the current status of the HTR extension?

In limbo, last I heard. Considering who the county judge is, I doubt its on their to-do list. Also, the end of that extension is tied directly into this project, since the terminus will have to be integrated into the new freeway system. So I don't see it moving forward until this gets off the ground.

[mattyt36]

4 hours ago, Big E said:

In limbo, last I heard. Considering who the county judge is, I doubt its on their to-do list. Also, the end of that extension is tied directly into this project, since the terminus will have to be integrated into the new freeway system. So I don't see it moving forward until this gets off the ground.

Thanks, that’s what I figured. Seems like you’d want to get this in place ahead of the construction, but I suppose the person calling the shots wants neither.

[hindesky]

Of the $12.5 billion destined for the Houston region in the plan, nearly half of it, $6.13 billion, is dedicated to the rebuild of Interstate 45 from downtown Houston north to Beltway 8 near Greenspoint.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/Texas-poised-for-record-80-billion-plus-in-road-17295480.php

[ADCS]

Dug gets on my nerves with how slanted his reporting on NHHIP is.

[editor]

4 hours ago, ADCS said:

Dug gets on my nerves with how slanted his reporting on NHHIP is.

I haven't read enough of his stuff to decide how/if on the slant.  But I appreciate someone named Dug reporting on construction.

[texan]

Bisnow had a decently fair story on NHHIP. Specifically it highlighted some business owners in the path who are quite happy with the project in general and how TxDOT is handling things. It also includes a significant testimony by Temenos leadership. It is, of course, missing the context that half of the Lofts that could remain is mostly just a parking garage next to a light rail stop and that the affordable housing is being replaced (and that many of the units were already unlivable to due Harvey). Overall one of the most honest and balanced pieces I've read on the project!

https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/multifamily/an-expanded-freeway-in-eado-looks-to-pit-car-transit-versus-dense-housing-but-the-fight-might-not-be-that-black-and-white-113788

 

TxDOT has a survey out for the portion of I-45 from the end of this project to the Beltway. One of the survey options was inclusion of commuter rail along it, which I was happily surprised to see. 

https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/gulf-freeway-pel-study.html

[editor]

On 7/23/2022 at 4:36 PM, texan said:

TxDOT has a survey out for the portion of I-45 from the end of this project to the Beltway. One of the survey options was inclusion of commuter rail along it, which I was happily surprised to see. 

I think that's the sort of thing that might make me more in favor of this project.  Leave some space down the middle for future rail, whether that's regional, or commuter, or Amtrak, or Metro.  That was the plan back in the 2000's when this was going to be part of the Trans-Texas Corridor.

If it becomes rail in ten years or 20 years or something, great!  If it doesn't, then that space may end up being used for yet another lane expansion.  But either way, as painful as it is, it's going to be at least 10x cheaper to buy right-of-way today than it will be when the next expansion is needed in 20 years. 

If there's one thing that HAIF lacks, it's comparisons to Chicago (that's a joke, son!), so here's an Apple Maps view how Chicago did it with the Blue Line subway running down the middle of I-290:

 

And again with I-90/94:

 

Some of you will note how the highway is below grade, which has made it only slightly less bad at dividing and destroying neighborhoods.

 

 

 

[texan]

Apparently TxDOT has started demolition although I did not see it from I-69 when driving past earlier.

https://www.costar.com/article/1395175284/apartment-demolition-underway-for-interstate-45-expansion-in-houston