Shamrock Tower At 617 Main St.

[marc]

The simple fact is that when you advertise that doing something will lead to a "boom" or "expansion" or what have you of something, people expect that boom or expansion to happen virtually right away, and when it doesn't, people start seeing doom.

The Rail line opened just 15-plus months ago. Toyota Center is not even two years old, and there are several street projects STILL ongoing. Meanwhile, people forget that there's been a growth in retail downtown, an expansion of hotels, a handful of loft conversions and several exciting projects in their aggressive planning and development stages.

Patience is very important but it's difficult to preach this while at the same time wowing people with tales of future delights. You're only making them that much more eager. I admit that I'll be becoming more and more anxious about the Pavillions project since it is situated on land that I've long ago thought would be an excellent spot for a high-profile development. I'm anxious to see its impact.

In any case, it's likely that someone's going to have to buck up and pay a little more for some of this vacant downtown land (or properties) to get things moving on the residential front. Many of these current landholders have been holding on to their properties for a long time, which suggests that they're more than willing to wait developers out (some for a decade or more).

I also like that METRO is looking into being proactive with some of the property it already owns. As a rule, I'm not a big fan of public entities being commercial entities but in this case, METRO can on a smaller scale help develop the overall market for the private sector (and consumer) as well. Kind of like selling ad space on buses or trains.

In the end, people simply need to be patient. In 1999, for example, there was virtually NOTHING to distinguish downtown Houston from its appearance in 1986. Thirteen years of blatant stagnation. Now, six years later, you have the makings of a real, multi-faceted downtown. A city of its own. It just needs to flex its muscles a little more so that it can adequately compete with Houston's other cities within a city.

That said, the Ballpark Place fiasco is a constant annoyance for me. Like Subdude often mentioned, that area would be a great place for several 6-8 story urban dwellings, making it a sort of baseball-related urban neighborhood.

I'll have to wait it out, though!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree Great Hizzy..........I was recently in town and went to a jazz club downtown. I have not BEEN downtown since summer of 2000. There is A LOT going on compared to 5 years ago.

After the crazy building boom......then the bust of '87.......I think it is wise that developers are cautious towards over building....i mean........my love for highrises and urban growth aside.....as a businessperson.....it is stupid to build something and then have it sit half empty for years. You still have to pay the maintenance and upkeep even though revenue is slight.

Like you, I am just being patient. All we have is time, right?

m

[N Judah]

In some parts of the country, there are strict zoning and height restrictions also.  Some parts of the country have tremendously strict City managers and building officials.  Some parts of the country have mayors not interested in the redevelopment of their CBD. 

Truth is, this is not true of THIS part of the country.  Any attempt to lay off delay, etc. on the City is obsurd and totally without merit.  The City bends over backwards to help downtown development (and I know this personally).  HUGE equity players have tried to buy this from the current owner to get it moving and it has yet to be sold.

Don't be misled.  Delay on this project is attributable to the developer and his team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right. That's exactly what I meant. You said it better than I could.

[uncertaintraveler]

The issue with the landowners asking too much is a problem.  This may lead to a situation that has happened in several cities where eminent domain was used and the landowners were paid the appraised price and not the asking price.  They still made a profit on the land, just not as much as they wanted.  Property owner were so excited of the prospects for new development they priced the land out of the market.  The drawback for using eminent domain is that it can get into the courts.  A real easy way is to turn the areas where they want development to happen is to create a redevelopment district and condemn the land they want to use.  Sounds underhanded, but often urban revitalization is done this way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking of eminent domain, does anyone know if the US Supreme Court has ruled on the rights of cities to use such a power to revitalize or bring economic development to an area? I think the case involved some city in Michigan or Mass. or somewhere up north, and if the Court ruled against the city, people were saying it would bring a quick end to cities declaring a place "blighted" just to bring in businesses to increase their tax base.

[kjb434]

I know the case you are talking about. I didn't specifically mention it because i don't know the outcome.

[Trophy Property]

Respectfully disagree on this point.  We see numerous participating mezzanine lenders that will take the loan to cost up to 90 and 95%.  However, we are a bit more polished than Tracy IMO. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That truly suprises me. I would think 90% would be the max they would loan, but then again History tends to repeat itself and these same lenders have not learned their lessons from the 80's. Well maybe a few lessons learned, but financing 95% of a speculative project in a unproven area seems like a huge risk to me.

[GetReal]

If Suttles can ever get this project going I would be shocked. He has lost most of his multi-family projects in forclosure. I bet this one won't last long either! I hope the loanshark that he gets $$ from is ready to be a building owner!

[houston-development]

He has lost most of his multi-family projects in forclosure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tracy did lose three properties in austin and at least two in houston to foreclosure. he is close to losing his katy deal and its currently on the market. so i wouldnt say technically he has lost most... yet...

[texasboy]

Evert time I see this thread has a new response, I start to think that someone has news that Shamrock will break ground.

[houston-development]

Same here... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

shamrock tower just announced ground breaking!!!! i don't believe it!!

oooops, sorry, couple of weeks late for aprils fools

[greystone08(returns)]

let's just hope the Houston Pavilion projects don't follow in the same footsteps as our beloved Shamrock!

[Dream]

i just heard that suttles and huffine are leaving the downtown location and are planning on building the shamrock on the failed deco diner triangle property in midtown.

just kidding, get real guys this building is never going to be built. lets just hope a more proffesional developer and team can get the property in the future.

dream

[guess]

www.shamrocktower.com is now under "major construction."

Does this mean no more shamrock tower?

[Lowbrow]

They forgot the Micky-D's in the render.

[UrbaNerd]

Does anyone else think that the rendering looks just like TheMark in Uptown..with a little bit more green?

[YakuzaIce]

Does anyone else think that the rendering looks just like TheMark in Uptown..with a little bit more green?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't really think so. Their main similarities are the round balconies at the corners. The balconies in the middle don't bulge outward, and it doesn't have the up and down strips of no windows like the mark. Also the Shamrock top looks alot better IMO.

But it is kind of similar.

[houstonsemipro]

Yes, I totally agree. It looks alot better then the old rendering.

[H-Town Man]

Whoever put that pediment on top should have his architecture license taken away.

All in all though, it's a fairly pleasant building. Would have gone great with the Irish pubs nearby - this section of Main could have been party central on St. Patrick's Day. Oh well.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Whoever put that pediment on top should have his architecture license taken away.

All in all though, it's a fairly pleasant building.  Would have gone great with the Irish pubs nearby - this section of Main could have been party central on St. Patrick's Day.  Oh well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking the same thing, verbatim almost. Heh.

[houston-development]

hmmm... i dont recall seeing that rendering before. imo, overall, it doesnt look too shabby. the front looks too plain though.. do something comparable to 1200 post oak around the windows.

at least they dumped most of the green and went more traditional looking. it would be a shame if this did move forward and they didnt pay attention to the small details.

im guessing one of two things are happening:

1) they are revamping the website to announce groundbreaking

2) tracy didnt pay his bills to the host

[N Judah]

I also think this one looks a lot better than the old one.

I've noticed that this building, the big flat one over by the galleria (the one that blocks out the sun), and a few others look like they came from the same template. There are other highrises (in Vancouver and the AzureLiving.com one going up in Dallas) that come from another template. Why does it seem like so many of the newer highrises seem to be done in the style of the Shamrock, and so few (or none at all) like the newer ones in Vancouver or the Azure? Does it have something to do with construction techniques, local preferences, or what? I'm just wondering, not criticizing. I happen to like most of the high rises in Houston.

[The Great Hizzy!]

I shouldn't laugh but HD's crack about #2 is pretty funny.

[Lowbrow]

Someone I showed that rendering pointed out that he thought one of the pedestrians is nekkid.

I think I agree.

[Talbot]

I don't like the parking garage in the back, they should dress it up or do something to hide it a little bit more. But the way that Suttles is doing financially, beggars can't be choosers.

[dalparadise]

There's not anything new in that rendering that I can see -- The perspective simply doesn't show the green pitched roof.

And before we take anyone's license away for the pediment, we need to really put the hammer down on the guy who decided to make that curb cut into the sidewalk for the front "drop-off" or "taxi" zone. This is Main Street! Do you actually think you can get away with notching out the entire sidewalk?!? The whole point of this experiment in redevelopment is to encourage pedestrians. Now The Sham would prefer to push them into traffic!

Good luck.

[UrbaNerd]

I don't like the parking garage in the back, they should dress it up or do something to hide it a little bit more. But the way that Suttles is doing financially, beggars can't be choosers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The top portion of the building used to wrap almost entirely around the top of the garage, but..they cut like..maybe 2/5 of the building off. I mean.,.as they go along, they are cutting alot off of this thing. Eventually, we'll be stuck with...the sales office.

[dalparadise]

The top portion of the building used to wrap almost entirely around the top of the garage, but..they cut like..maybe 2/5 of the building off.  I mean.,.as they go along, they are cutting alot off of this thing.  Eventually, we'll be stuck with...the sales office.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This rendering is current as of about a year ago...when ground breaking was supposed to have started on the first delayed schedule.

[houston-development]

i hate to sound optimistic but

they started construction on his grammercy deal; the first level of piers have been placed. i have no earthly idea how they made the numbers work (priced the dirt at $50+ psf), but somehow it happened. who ever did the construction loan would probably be the lender on shamrock.

[kjb434]

I think the developer of the project is somewhat a baffoon, but I think it will be built. They are just on their own timeline. So what if they kept pushing back the construction date, it'll get built when they get around to it.

Where is the Grammercy at?

[houston-development]

I think the developer of the project is somewhat a baffoon, but I think it will be built.  They are just on their own timeline.  So what if they kept pushing back the construction date, it'll get built when they get around to it.

Where is the Grammercy at?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they are not doing it on their own timeline. re-read this thread about the financial aspects of the deal and tracy.. anyhoo, thats another story and im not going into it.

the grammercy project is located on kirby and grammercy, just one block south of holcombe. its behind the rice grocery store and a jiffy lube (or something comparable). the site has +/- 3 acres and is divided by grammercy. the road is currently closed, so i dont know if he got the city to close it permanently or only during construction.

i believe i was wrong on the land price, i think it was closer to $40 than $50 psf.

[kjb434]

Well, at least he can get one development off the ground.

I wish a better team would have been involved in the project like Orion's.

I remember all the financial issues. What I meant about timeline is that I hope that even if it takes more than a year to convert reservations to contracts that the building will be built.

If I were them, I would try to invest some in advertising and push to get more units under contract.