Subdude Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Classic haif pile-on, I love it. mfastx that 75 story building is three blocks away and doesn't loom over Market Square at all. But its looming presence hasn't exactly done wonders for street life along Texas Ave., so I wonder what your point is? cloud713 I thought your response was the strongest, but the 40 story tower is only half a block wide, not a full block, and will probably present a more interesting facade than the expanses of glass on the International Tower. So I'm not as concerned about it. Moore713, that is a very optimistic picture. I don't think though that just the presence of many workers in an office tower guarantees that they'll all go down to the street below and foster urban life. All else being equal, yes it is good to have lots of workers in close proximity, but there is a danger in brutalizing the space. Classic example of brutalizing a space by the way is the Tour Montparnasse, which so overwhelmed the neighborhood below it that two years later Paris passed a law banning all buildings over 7 stories anywhere in the central city. The Montparnasse neighborhood never fully recovered its charm, although there's some places where you don't see the building. I have mixed feelings about the International Tower... I love what it would do for the skyline, extending it north, and we can all agree it's better than a parking lot, but the point of my original post was to say that I think there might be a hidden blessing if this doesn't get built, assuming something else does in a few years. Just one man's opinion, though. I see what you're saying. Say International Tower doesn't get built, because realistically how much has demand for downtown Class A space grown? So given continued incentives for downtown residential, and the two new residential projects adjoining Market Square, this block would be an obvious call for another residential project. Think of Market Square with three large residential projects. It could easily become Houston's version of Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I see what you're saying. Say International Tower doesn't get built, because realistically how much has demand for downtown Class A space grown? So given continued incentives for downtown residential, and the two new residential projects adjoining Market Square, this block would be an obvious call for another residential project. Think of Market Square with three large residential projects. It could easily become Houston's version of Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia. To be honest, I rather an office or a mix use office there. Think of it in this way, market square is one square block. Without any of these residential projects, it is pretty full of people and activities. You add 3, 350 unit developments and the park becomes overrun in the mornings / evenings by people needing to let out their dogs, and spending their outdoor time there... on the one square block. Grass / nature couldnt survive as well with all that ware. Honestly, with the 2 proposed (and God willing built) the park might still suffer. If the office building goes in there, then there will be a steady stream of people that can reduce the stress times on the park. Either way, it's going to be a popular park. no doubt or worry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 To be honest, I rather an office or a mix use office there.Think of it in this way, market square is one square block. Without any of these residential projects, it is pretty full of people and activities. You add 3, 350 unit developments and the park becomes overrun in the mornings / evenings by people needing to let out their dogs, and spending their outdoor time there... on the one square block. Grass / nature couldnt survive as well with all that ware. Honestly, with the 2 proposed (and God willing built) the park might still suffer. If the office building goes in there, then there will be a steady stream of people that can reduce the stress times on the park.Either way, it's going to be a popular park. no doubt or worry about that.There's always the bayou a few blocks away. Lots of small parks in New York have much higher populations within a three block radius and seem to do well. If there's too many people walking in this part of town... what a nice problem to have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston19514 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I would love to see a hotel/residential combo on that block. Or, even better, office/hotel/residential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 mfastx that 75 story building is three blocks away and doesn't loom over Market Square at all. But its looming presence hasn't exactly done wonders for street life along Texas Ave., so I wonder what your point is? Okay, it's two blocks away, and all over the world there are many large towers that loom over heavily utilized pedestrian areas. It's all about street level interaction. No matter how tall the building is, if it engages the pedestrian then they will be comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Agreed with most of the above.. Another residential might put this park over an edge we don't want it to go over.. I'm sure we've all seen how discovery green and klyde warren have to rope off sections of grass for days to allow the ground to recover.. But a hotel/office/retail combo would be fantastic here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H-Town Man Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Okay, it's two blocks away, and all over the world there are many large towers that loom over heavily utilized pedestrian areas. It's all about street level interaction. No matter how tall the building is, if it engages the pedestrian then they will be comfortable. Heavily utilized could mean Rockefeller Plaza or it could mean Washington Square, Greenwich Village. One of those works with tall buildings looming over it, the other wouldn't. The thing about Market Square is that it has the oldest buildings in all of Houston, and is one of the only places in the whole city that could be called quaint or charming. I just don't want to risk building a giant glass highrise on one side. If the character of this place is damaged, then that's it... Houston doesn't have any other square with quaint old-timey buildings around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Heavily utilized could mean Rockefeller Plaza or it could mean Washington Square, Greenwich Village. One of those works with tall buildings looming over it, the other wouldn't. The thing about Market Square is that it has the oldest buildings in all of Houston, and is one of the only places in the whole city that could be called quaint or charming. I just don't want to risk building a giant glass highrise on one side. If the character of this place is damaged, then that's it... Houston doesn't have any other square with quaint old-timey buildings around it. Unfortunately the character was damaged back when the south side of buildings was replaced with surface parking, and the west side with a jumbo parking garage. I can understand the concern with a glass facade, and the shape of the proposed International Tower hardly coordinates with the local building, but maybe a residential building, even a highrise, could be designed with greater sensitivity to the street and square. Here's hoping anyhow. Now that I've read your comments I'm starting to think it might be better if International Tower weren't built! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobruss Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Scale being an important consideration and the fact that this is on the edge of the only historical area left in downtown it might be nicer to have a building intended for whatever use, that becomes the integrating factor of the skyline area and the theater/ historic district.I like the idea of a hotel and I imagine with all of the performing arts centered in the neighborhood a nice boutique hotel similar to the Lancaster, or maybe our own W, might be a good choice. I think something else to consider is the view from N45. If the building was in say the 30 story range and a really amazing design it wouldn't block the buildings behind it and would be a nice transition.It would definitely have a great location to be seen from several different angles. Every building built downtown doesn't have to be a 75 story building. We have plenty of empty blocks for those to come. Rome wasn't built in a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobruss Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 One thing I meant to bring up is the block that was going to be the site of the 80 story tower that they had the competition for back in the late 70"s . I believe it was called the Bank of the Southwest Tower . I'm sure someone will correct me on the title but the competition made national news and the story made the headlines and cover story of Time Magazine as the project of the time.That's where we need the 80+ story tower. Right in the center and between the Texas Commerce/Chase 75stories and the 71 story Wells Fargo building. Hell make it 102 stories and screw the FAA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustonIsHome Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 ... If the building was in say the 30 story range and a really amazing design it wouldn't block the buildings behind it and would be a nice transition. I dunno, the sweet thing about the international tower was that it was tall and blocked off a lot of the squareness of Chase. I don't mind a tall building if it fits in well with the surroundings. The rough sketches of the Hines residential seemed to do that. Anyway, Houston office workers are mole people anyway. They won't be overruning Market Square. See, when I recommended that Houston needed a "real" square people thought I was crazy. "Why does it have to have a lot of hardspace" they said. Now they are complaining about all the people killing the grass. Lol. why can't we have a variety of spaces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Funny how the one with the second most votes is pushed all the way to 2016 now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Funny how the one with the second most votes is pushed all the way to 2016 now. I still put it up in the "done deal" category, since it's basically build to suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I would say there has been surprises, but the only think for sure is Brookfield doesn't play the houston market well. And it might be for the best... I don't want that lot to be wasted. Something very very cool can go there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I would say there has been surprises, but the only think for sure is Brookfield doesn't play the houston market well. And it might be for the best... I don't want that lot to be wasted. Something very very cool can go thereYou may actually be surprised with Brookfield. They're currently planning on what to do with the remaining Allen Centers. Last I heard (which was fairly recent), they are still wanting to completely renovate One Allen Center just like what will happen after Exxon completely leaves their building for the campus. Now, I admittedly voted "no" for Five Allen Center but we may be surprised by Brookfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avossos Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 You may actually be surprised with Brookfield. They're currently planning on what to do with the remaining Allen Centers. Last I heard (which was fairly recent), they are still wanting to completely renovate One Allen Center just like what will happen after Exxon completely leaves their building for the campus. Now, I admittedly voted "no" for Five Allen Center but we may be surprised by Brookfield.I think renovating 1 Allen is a complete waste of time and money. Just renovate the space inside the building maybe. The outside is fine. I work in Allen center and it is completely fine. I just don't want to see Brookfield waste that lot for something half-assed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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