Greenspoint

[YakuzaIce]

I also know people from south and west Houston that go to The Woodlands as a tourist destination: like a day trip.  Some even stay overnight in The Woodlands Resort.

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Seriously???

I find that very hard to believe. But maybe it is just me. The only way I could see myself going there is if I happened to be in the area, and even then probably only if somone I was with needed to go there.

[rps324]

I have to throw my vote in with pineda's viewpoint.  I grew up in FM 1960/Spring, and still visit the parents there pretty often.  Although I am closer to both Greenspoint and Willowbrook than I am to the Woodlands, I almost always go to the Woodlands for shopping, just because it is sooo much nicer.  As far as I am concerned, you never go to Greenspoint, you go to Willowbrook when you need something in a hurry, and you go to the Woodlands when you want to enjoy the experience.  If this doesn't make sense to you, drive around Willowbrook or Greenspoint and then drive around the Woodlands town center, and you will see what I mean.

As far as the Woodlands as a tourist destination - well they have a convention center, a scenic waterway, and the area's best concert pavilion.  The water taxis are no joke; as crazy as it sounds, I have family members who will take the older relatives out to the Woodlands to ride the water taxis, and make a day of it.  They are starting to become a significant player as far as small conventions/conferences are concerned; you can see their advertisements in many statewide magazines like Texas Monthly, as well as airline magazines like Southwest Spirit.

MidtownCoog, Greenspoint might be closer to Houston than the Woodlands, but for most Houstonians, there is another mall closer than Greenspoint that they would go to first.  As you said yourself, you do your shopping in Uptown.  Woodlands mall has a lot more people living within 5 miles than does Greenspoint, and they are much higher income.

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I grew up on that side of town also, and later had a house there. I have to admit, when I lived in Ponderosa Forest right at 1960 & Kuykendahl I would drive to Woodlands mall and rarely if ever darkened Greenspoint's doorstep. If they can support a turn-around and revival based upon the business from the nearby office space, the apartments, and the moderate income neighborhoods to the south, along with anybody in-town who is going to drive out there, more power to them. But the comments of Pineda & H-town are what I have always found to be typical of everyone living from 1960 and north. Greenspoint is looked upon as tired & why go there when you have Willowbrook & Woodlands mall. We can argue all day long whether that perception is right or wrong, valid, proper, or whatever, but it definitely exists.

They flopped at the big "Cityview" effort to turn around the apartments and I am afraid they will flop at the effort to revive the mall as well. It would be great if they could do it, I hope I am proven wrong.

[RedScare]

Forgive me if I gave the impression that anyone goes to Greenspoint to shop from 1960. My point was that except for those living close to Montgomery County, most now go to Willowbrook for everyday mall shopping.

[Casual Observer]

Watch out San Antonio - the Woodlands is jockeying for position.

As far as the Woodlands as a tourist destination - well they have a ..scenic waterway..

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[bachanon]

there is an enormous amount of infill housing being built south of 1960, west of aldine-westfield, east of 249 and north of beltway 8. most of the housing i've seen is under 150k. i think that any redevelopment of greenspoint will reflect the demographics of these homeowners.

[Guest danax]

Honestly, I'm skeptical about a Gunspoint Mall turnaround.  Even though there is a strong lunchtime office worker crowd, the residential picture for miles around Gunspoint is truly grim indeed.

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The Middle-North area seems to be experiencing a bit of ring-rot.

That's a little surprising to hear about the Willowbrook area but not too. That whole area from 610 to 1960 , from 290 to 59 has attracted a lot of lower/middle income families and, not only are a lot of those neighborhoods and surroundings unappealing and with middle-aged tract homes starting to decline, but it appears to be slowly getting worse.

I used to live off 1960 east of 45 and it has gone down. You've got more city-type crime, home invasion, drug houses...I read about some of that in the local paper a few months ago up there. There was a sign on a lawn a couple of weeks ago the street over from my old house for Section 8 renters. I know, no big deal, they might be fine people but it is a sign of change. The neighborhood used to be almost all owner occupied. Aldine is dumpy. Those subdivisions north of Acres Homes past the Belt up to 1960 are spotty.

Greenspoint was never built with a semi-ghetto surrounding area in mind but that's what's there so they need to adjust. Gentrification is unlikely for awhile. Bass Pro Shops and Northern Tools? Is that the best they can muster? Hey, maybe they are trying to attract the macho hunter/fishermen/contractor types and scare away the thugs.

[SpringTX]

there is an enormous amount of infill housing being built south of 1960, west of aldine-westfield, east of 249 and north of beltway 8.  most of the housing i've seen is under 150k.  i think that any redevelopment of greenspoint will reflect the demographics of these homeowners.

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Bachanon, I've noticed that, too. New housing is exploding in the area you mention, which is confusing to us residents nearby. Do you think that these new single-family residential subdivisions are going to increase or decrease the "ghetto" (i.e. crime) factor in the area? The area is already considered to be somewhat unsafe. So is it now getting safer, or is just getting denser?

[H-Town Man]

WTF?

Greenspoint Mall, according to the management district website, has 84,780 people living within 3 MILES of it.  Additionally, 75,000 people work in Greenspoint.

For comparison, the ENTIRE Woodlands has 55,000 residents.  Ask someone in Alden Bridge if they live within 5 miles of the mall.

http://www.internest.com/city/thewoodlandstx.asp

Note the Woodlands density in their demographic section.

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There is more than The Woodlands within five miles of The Woodlands Mall, RedScare. What part of town are you from?

[H-Town Man]

Watch out San Antonio - the Woodlands is jockeying for position.

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Yes, clearly that was the implication of my post.

[RedScare]

There is more than The Woodlands within five miles of The Woodlands Mall, RedScare.  What part of town are you from?

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From 1995 through 1999, Budde Road.

Since then, the Heights.

[bachanon]

Bachanon, I've noticed that, too. New housing is exploding in the area you mention, which is confusing to us residents nearby. Do you think that these new single-family residential subdivisions are going to increase or decrease the "ghetto" (i.e. crime) factor in the area? The area is already considered to be somewhat unsafe. So is it now getting safer, or is just getting denser?

the area is getting denser. i think that many of these new neighborhoods will become ghettos with big houses, not because of who is buying the homes but because many of these homes are being bought by investors to rent, and many of the new home owners cannot afford the notes they are signing and will abandon these houses, and the homes are being cheaply built.

IMHO, i believe that the homebuilders who are building thousands of homes in close proximity to the hardy toll road near 1960/richey are targeting low income and minority buyers. it appears that many who are buying these homes can barely afford them. by that i mean that there are sheets hanging in many windows of homes that have been there for over a year and sparsely furnished homes. it is my fear that these builders are capitalizing on available financing and helping people look like good loan prospects.

before someone jumps on me, let me be specific. i do not intend to say that low income and minority go hand in hand. i believe these builders are taking advantage of members of the buying public who are first time home buyers who may or may not have had good counsel in personal finance and/or home buying.

it's a disaster waiting to happen.

now that i've unloaded my cynical take, let me be positive. it is possible that a growing number of the low income and/or minority population is coming into the middle class with a vengeance. although these builders may be building sub-quality housing, they are offering a new home to persons who may have never thought they could own one. regardless of the substandard housing, a neighborhood full of proud homeowners does not a ghetto make.

[RedScare]

I don't know the quality of the housing or the makeup of the neighborhoods, so I'll take your word for it.

But, you are right about the homeownership. That could actually be what the Greenspoint area needs to shake this reputation. Home ownership has been shown to drastically reduce crime. The overbuilt apartments are what caused Greenspoint's decline, just as it is overbuilt and crime ridden in Alief. I don't know if any of those complexes are worth converting to condos, but that could help as well.

On a related note, on my way to see my folks I saw a big clearing for new construction on Kuykendahl, just past the Park & Ride. Is that homes or apts?

[SpringTX]

the area is getting denser.  i think that many of these new neighborhoods will become ghettos with big houses, not because of who is buying the homes but because many of these homes are being bought by investors to rent, and many of the new home owners cannot afford the notes they are signing and will abandon these houses, and the homes are being cheaply built.

IMHO, i believe that the homebuilders who are building thousands of homes in close proximity to the hardy toll road near 1960/richey are targeting low income and minority buyers.  it appears that many who are buying these homes can barely afford them.  by that i mean that there are sheets hanging in many windows of homes that have been there for over a year and sparsely furnished homes.  it is my fear that these builders are capitalizing on available financing and helping people look like good loan prospects.

before someone jumps on me, let me be specific.  i do not intend to say that low income and minority go hand in hand.  i believe these builders are taking advantage of members of the buying public who are first time home buyers who may or may not have had good counsel in personal finance and/or home buying.

it's a disaster waiting to happen.

now that i've unloaded my cynical take, let me be positive.  it is possible that a growing number of the low income and/or minority population is coming into the middle class with a vengeance.  although these builders may be building sub-quality housing, they are offering a new home to persons who may have never thought they could own one.  regardless of the substandard housing, a neighborhood full of proud homeowners does not a ghetto make.

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I appreciate your feedback. I think that there's going to be a significant percentage of foreclosures, like maybe as many as a few houses per block. I think that there will be a significant percentage of renters, like as many as several houses per block. There might be a couple abandoned units on each block. But I think this is all a worst-case scenario. I think lenders are getting a little savvier these days. I think there are a lot of working-class, minority, 2-parent families that are very stable financially and employment-wise, for example: a first-generation Mexican-American family where the father is a truck driver and the mother is a nurse, and their combined income is $50K/year. The kids may not be as likely to be National Merit Finalists, but they hopefully won't be selling drugs on the corner.

Overall, I would think it'll be pretty hard to turn a brand new subdivision of $130K homes into a ghetto overnight. It can definitely happen. But I think it'll take some time and hard work.

[bachanon]

On a related note, on my way to see my folks I saw a big clearing for new construction on Kuykendahl, just past the Park & Ride. Is that homes or apts?

sorry, i haven't heard anything on this property.

[GovernorAggie]

I have a funny/stupid Greenspoint story...

When I first moved to Texas in 2003, I was going to Alabama for Christmas. Well, since I didn't know anyone in Houston, I figured that I could just park at the Greenspoint transit center and ride the bus to the airport. Well, since I was unfamiliar with METRO, I thought that the bus stop was the 'transit center', lol. Anyway, I parked there, got on the WRONG bus (inbound instead of outbound), made it to IAH about 1 hour before my flight and flew to Alabama and stayed there for two weeks.

When I got back there, my car was just fine--it had like 10 parking warning tickets by the Greenspoint district, but it was fine. lol, now that I think about it, that was one of the weiredset days that I had when I first got to Texas.

[YakuzaIce]

I have a funny/stupid Greenspoint story...

When I first moved to Texas in 2003, I was going to Alabama for Christmas.  Well, since I didn't know anyone in Houston, I figured that I could just park at the Greenspoint transit center and ride the bus to the airport.  Well, since I was unfamiliar with METRO, I thought that the bus stop was the 'transit center', lol.  Anyway, I parked there, got on the WRONG bus (inbound instead of outbound), made it to IAH about 1 hour before my flight and flew to Alabama and stayed there for two weeks.

When I got back there, my car was just fine--it had like 10 parking warning tickets by the Greenspoint district, but it was fine.  lol, now that I think about it, that was one of the weiredset days that I had when I first got to Texas.

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LOL

Why did you decide to try and take the bus your first time in houston? It seems like it would be confusing, and apparently it was.

[wxman]

I hate to "reactivate" an old topic, but has anybody heard the latest of the Greenspoint Renovation? I know it's supposed to be an amazing turn around for the mall. I even heard that a waterway and lofts would be put in. Watch out Woodlands...well not really.

[KatieDidIt]

I don't care what they do to the place to pretty it up. You couldn't hold a gun to my head and make me shop there.

Oh wait......

Its Greenspoint. My bad.

[psilverot]

The project was supposed to start in early 2007, but obviously it hasn't. I recently asked a rep. from the mall and was told to wait a few weeks for the final decisions whether to proceed with the project or not. I hope they do. It's best for Houston.

I hate to "reactivate" an old topic, but has anybody heard the latest of the Greenspoint Renovation? I know it's supposed to be an amazing turn around for the mall. I even heard that a waterway and lofts would be put in. Watch out Woodlands...well not really.

[hbcu]

I lived behind Willowbrook Mall for 3 years and never felt safer.....and that was from 2003 to July 2006...if I didn't have to move out of state I'm still there

1960 has more access from 610 than any major suburban street in town....growth that way was bound to happen...Missouri City grew and became heavily african american WITHOUT public transportation as 1960 is a straight shot from Acres Home, 249, Rossyln N. Houston, etc. via Metro or car...

if you've noticed....Kuykendahl, Veterans Memorial are heavily minority because of the access.....and those streets continue straight into the Woodlands so watch out...lol

but technically, blacks and others owned alot of that land we call suburban paradise also so if anythng, w're just coming back home..lol

[PureAuteur]

I don't care what they do to the place to pretty it up. You couldn't hold a gun to my head and make me shop there.

Oh wait......

Its Greenspoint. My bad.

Actually, Greenspoint has been much safer in recent years. They've done a lot to clean it up and make it better for families to live. I hope the mall renovation doesn't detract from the aesthetic of the central business district that includes the mall. I really love the way it looks now, especially when turning onto the I-45 connector so I get a nice view from up high.

[Vertigo58]

Was called Gunspoint for a long time. Has it really shaped up that well? We thought we saw a mushroom cloud from our part of Houston. Could that be what it took?

[TexasArchitect]

The project was supposed to start in early 2007, but obviously it hasn't. I recently asked a rep. from the mall and was told to wait a few weeks for the final decisions whether to proceed with the project or not. I hope they do. It's best for Houston.

i agree, this renovation would be great for Houston and that area.

I can't stand the fact that there is a "ghetto" mall (and sorry i dont want to offend anyone w/ that term) close to intercontinental airport. People flying in to Houston via IAH will first see Greesnpoint Mall as the first mall and that just sets a bad tone for Houston.

I remember since high school the "bad" mall was northline......IMO greenspoint is pretty close to equal of northline now.

I'm not much of a mall person, but if i have to go to the mall i tend to go to Woodlands mall, Willowbrook is o.k. but I think 1960 is going down or at least near 45 it is.

[ProHouston]

i agree, this renovation would be great for Houston and that area.

I can't stand the fact that there is a "ghetto" mall (and sorry i dont want to offend anyone w/ that term) close to intercontinental airport. People flying in to Houston via IAH will first see Greesnpoint Mall as the first mall and that just sets a bad tone for Houston.

I remember since high school the "bad" mall was northline......IMO greenspoint is pretty close to equal of northline now.

I'm not much of a mall person, but if i have to go to the mall i tend to go to Woodlands mall, Willowbrook is o.k. but I think 1960 is going down or at least near 45 it is.

The good thing is that you can't tell there is anything wrong with Greenspoint from the street. I took several out of towners from a conference over there to the food court for lunch recently and they had no idea it was "ghetto." When I explained that the mall is in an area stuck between the city and the suburbs and on the decline, they were very surprised.

[Vertigo58]

i agree, this renovation would be great for Houston and that area.

I can't stand the fact that there is a "ghetto" mall (and sorry i dont want to offend anyone w/ that term) close to intercontinental airport. People flying in to Houston via IAH will first see Greesnpoint Mall as the first mall and that just sets a bad tone for Houston.

I remember since high school the "bad" mall was northline......IMO greenspoint is pretty close to equal of northline now.

I'm not much of a mall person, but if i have to go to the mall i tend to go to Woodlands mall, Willowbrook is o.k. but I think 1960 is going down or at least near 45 it is.

Correct 1960/45 hit the skids already. Seeds have been planted.

Gunspoint,

Our company used to have the big annual Sales & Marketing meetings at the Wyndhum Hotel a few years ago and stopped because out of towners knew it was well not a nice area. Once word gets out its hard to sugar coat it. I turned down a job in that area a year ago as the culture/environment was so unprofessional and just well... I'll leave it at that. You need to glance at "Other topics" and see what a few truths can get you labelled. I just laugh it off. Glad I'm not alone though.

[TexasArchitect]

I took several out of towners from a conference over there to the food court for lunch recently and they had no idea it was "ghetto." When I explained that the mall is in an area stuck between the city and the suburbs and on the decline, they were very surprised.

wow, i'm surprised. i guess since i know the area and already know it's not a good area i become biased.

last time i passed by there i noticed they have a fitness center, and supposedly someone told me that the Dillards that's in there is an outlet Dillards.

i need to go and investigate what's across the freeway from there. Long time ago i remember there being an oshman's, but now it looks like there are nothing but business' there.

[hbcu]

If I'm thinking what your thinking about..it's a technology center now....everything in that strip center failed as the beltway covered it up

[paulanthony1977]

there is an enormous amount of infill housing being built south of 1960, west of aldine-westfield, east of 249 and north of beltway 8. most of the housing i've seen is under 150k. i think that any redevelopment of greenspoint will reflect the demographics of these homeowners.

You are right. Thanks to KB home they are building future ghettos, like Remington Ranch off I-45 and Rankin. I was picking up a friend from the airport who came in from California for the weekend and he said, "man, that's a big mobile home park".

They are building that entire subdivision without one single brick!

[psilverot]

Looks like they will be renovating Greenspoint Mall starting in August....

[Trae]

Looks like they will be renovating Greenspoint Mall starting in August....

Have they started?