Vintage Park Shopping Village Developments

[Trae]

Actually, it's a very nice center that most people are anxious to see filled up. I'd rather see centers like this (filled up of course) than endless miles of strip centers that you see all over Houston.

If you've seen it in person, its hard to believe the owners haven't fired the leasing agents for incompetance. Beautiful center, large market with great demographics anxious to see this place open for business. Do what the Woodlands did and sign up a few big name anchors as loss leaders, the rest will follow.

I think Willowbrook Mall being close by hurt this development maybe. For example, La Centerra in Cinco Ranch is just like The Vintage Center. Only difference is, tenants filled up quick at La Centerra and the second phase already has tenants leased I think. The closest normal mall near La Centerra is West Oaks.

[chamberscreek]

You got the money part right. I don't know so much about time or thought. I really don't see what people are so anxious about. It's just a shopping and business center, no different from the Willowbrook Commons or the newer Willowbrook center where the AMC 24 theater is. The only difference is that it slightly resembles an authentic southern European village.

I predicted this all two years ago in one of the original threads about this development. I said that all they really needed to build was the HEB store and forget about the Vintage Park, because the HEB would be the only thing that would do well over there, and it looks like I was right.

I think part of the problem is that the concept doesn't fit the area. For one, the old world style of the center is out of place and doesn't give off an inviting vibe. The other problem is that the area around it was designed for upper middle class neighborhoods with the idea of getting into your car and driving to Willowbrook area or 1960 to go shopping. It doesn't blend into the surroundings well at all. Maybe it makes nice decoration, but I could see most people just driving past it.

What they should have done with that land was to add more highrise and midrise office buildings like they have on the opposite side of 249. With the rest of the land, they should have made a nice nature park, complete with a futuristic-looking building near the office buildings that serves as a giant "food court" for all the business people working.

Yes, I think (unfortunately) the developers hit a mini "perfect storm" with Vintage Park:

1) I agree that they misjudged the market. They originally presented this as a sister to Uptown Park. Sorry, but that doesn't match the market out here. Remember the California Pizza Kitchen on 1960? It was the first store in that chain that they ever closed. Their post-close research showed that a) everyone thought they had a good product, but people weren't willing to pay for it. I think an Uptown Park clone would face a similar fate. Yes, they're just across the street from HP, but...engineers don't spend money the same way that accountants and lawyers do.

2) There is more than enough retail space hitting the market out here, and I'm sure all of it is cheaper than Vintage Park. Granted, Vintage Park is nicer than any of the other spaces available, but...ultimately, folks need to make a profit, and I think the Vintage Park folks have missed the opportunity to price competitively and kill off everyone else, and seem to be getting killed themselves instead.

3) With us heading into a slight downturn, they hit just a little bit of unfortunate timing.

4) They have thus far utterly failed in bringing in any magnet stores (other than, arguably, a Starbucks with a drive-thru)

They may pull this out yet (since I live in the area, I hope they do), but it's going to be a long, uphill battle...

[mrfootball]

Again, hugely underserved market in this area stretching from 1960 up to 2920...from 290 to Kuykendahl. Great demos and very little substantial competition in that segment. The solution would be to do what was done in the Woodlands by offering incentives to big-name anchors which got the ball rolling on everything else.

The leasing/marketing team is either wholly incompetent (knowing nothing about this market) or they're distracted. It's a beautiful center and people are anxious to see some good retailers in there.

[houstongirl]

Another tenant has been added to our local ghost town.

From their website:

Salata is a fast casual tossed-to-order salad bar serving create your own fresh salads and salad wraps in a warm and inviting setting.

At Salata our customers consistently enjoy the freshness, variety, taste and value of our salads along with the fast and friendly service.

Experience Salata and create your own unique salad or salad wrap by choosing from a variety of fresh lettuces, a large selection of fresh veggies, fruits, nuts, cheeses and more, an array of our tasty signature dressings and the option to top them with a great selection of chicken and seafood.

Today the health conscious public is in demand for healthy eating alternatives, and Salata is there to fill that need.

Salata Website

[geegeeTX]

Sounds like an overpriced Souper Salad....yippee! These types of places (giant salad bars) have always been unappealing to me personally - especially in this day and age of germs, E Coli, and nasty stuff like that on veggies from God-knows-where. There are two things I would not pay money for in a restaurant - sandwiches and salads. This place will probably be suitable for dieters and people who work nearby...but I will not go out of my way to patronize such a place. Its almost like all the restaurants in this development are an overpriced version of everything they are selling. Overpriced pizza, overpriced Italian, overpriced salad, overpriced seafood....the list goes on!

[houstongirl]

Its almost like all the restaurants in this development are an overpriced version of everything they are selling. Overpriced pizza, overpriced Italian, overpriced salad, overpriced seafood....the list goes on!

Pairs quite well with the overpriced rent.

[looking_in_nw]

The tenants trickling into the Vintage are really tilting the clientele in the wrong direction. Other than the restaurants and banks, there are no national chains. Its all nail shops, a local toy store, a medical clinic and a Verizon Wireless. You can get all those in the local strip mall. Most of the people going to cell phone stores are those who have to pay their bills with cash, and/or those who have a problem, which is often trying to reactivate their service. With a start like this, and with every new store of this caliber, big name, high end tenants will think less and less of the Vintage.

I see workers building out stores every day, yet there seem to be very few tenants moving in. Its really a disaster. I really don't have much hope for this development. Looks great. I really like the architecture, but if it doesn't get some good stores soon, its going to end up the slums of the HEB center next door.

Anchor and destination stores are a dying breed. With the wave of department store consolidations (i.e. Macy's nationalization) many malls are left with an extra anchor store space or two needing a tenant. Anchor stores are basically loss leaders where the mall essentially pays the tenant money upfront to build it out and often never make any money on the lease. Steve and Barrys gots its big expansion due to the shortage of anchor stores, and even S&B has gone bankrupt, further exasperating the anchor crisis. Steve and Barrys would never have been considered anchor store material a few years ago. The Vintage hasn't even been able to get a store of this lower quality yet, or maybe they are not lowering their standards. However, given their other clients, I don't think that is the situation.

How long until this thing gets reposessed by the creditors... and then there are the townhomes, or rather, the clearcut field, that will probably be another flop in that overall development. Sad to think the HEB center with the liquour store and nail shop is the current crown jewel of the whole Vintage development.

[Trae]

Again, hugely underserved market in this area stretching from 1960 up to 2920...from 290 to Kuykendahl. Great demos and very little substantial competition in that segment. The solution would be to do what was done in the Woodlands by offering incentives to big-name anchors which got the ball rolling on everything else.

The leasing/marketing team is either wholly incompetent (knowing nothing about this market) or they're distracted. It's a beautiful center and people are anxious to see some good retailers in there.

Demographics are there, but looks like people aren't willing to shop there right now. Like I said earlier, Willowbrook Mall is probably hurting Vintage Center a bit. But you say they need some big-time anchors. Who would you have in mind?

[houstongirl]

Demographics are there, but looks like people aren't willing to shop there right now. Like I said earlier, Willowbrook Mall is probably hurting Vintage Center a bit. But you say they need some big-time anchors. Who would you have in mind?

I know it's highly unlikely, as they are suffering their own struggles right now, but a Barnes & Noble or Borders would be fantastic. As an avid reader and parent, we shop at bookstores very regularly and the closest one is at 1960 & Champion Forest. It's not an extremely long distance, but it's not quick to get there during high traffic times.

Additionally, some apparel retailers that generally like these types of centers would be good. Examples would be White House Black Market, Talbots, JoS. A. Bank, Francesca's, etc.

It would be nice, as originally planned, to have a higher end home decor store. I know there were rumors of a Crate & Barrel in the beginning, which would have been a hit, but something like Pottery Barn, Restoration Hardware, or Z Gallerie would be a very welcomed addition. None of these retailers have a store anywhere between Market Street & Highland Village.

I know the economy is sluggish right now, and this all created a 'perfect storm', but it seems to me that the leasing team on this project is phenomenally underperforming. They need to get out there and basically beg and plead to get some quality businesses in here. I'm a darn good salesperson, maybe I should go work there and fight for the quality tenants.

The plan is still for a 'Grand Opening' celebration some time in October. Let's hope it's not still mostly vacant at that point!

[Trae]

Maybe some people at La Centerra in Cinco Ranch can help out Vintage Center .

[crunchtastic]

Specialty apparell retailers are the usually the earliest and hardest hit in bad ecomonies. I don't know aobut Q2, but Talbots, for example, had profits down 70% in Q1 and same-store sales across the entire sector are going from bad to worse. Everyone's tightening inventories. I wouldn't hold out much hope for new locations this year.

Isn't there a huge new 'upscale' outlet store on that side of town? I'd reckon its proximity is close enough that those types of retailers wouldn't be too interested in an HEB-anchored center.

[cnote]

Maybe some people at La Centerra in Cinco Ranch can help out Vintage Center .

I think many of the places we are talking about are already available in the area, except for the big furniture places, a lot of these retailers are already in Willowbrook or on 1960 near Champions Forest. If they have a store already, and with the economy where it is, why would they move from a place with low rent to a shoping center whose only major tenent is a grocery store and some lunch places. It's not like Willowbrook or Champions Forest are low traffic or anything. If, for example White House Black Market or Ann Taylor were to move from Champions Forest and Willowbrook, respectively, to Vintage, do you really think their sales would skyrocket? They wuold have the same basic customers they do now, so why pay more?

They need to get a bookstore, furniture, and clothing retail, but they need to lower the rent to make it happen...

[houstongirl]

Isn't there a huge new 'upscale' outlet store on that side of town? I'd reckon its proximity is close enough that those types of retailers wouldn't be too interested in an HEB-anchored center.

The outlet mall is 20 minutes or more from Vintage Park.

[Jedijake]

I'm sure they've done what they can for the rent. It's not as if there is a line of retailers waiting for a spot at the Vintage (or at least it seems there isn't). Instead, the Vintage people need to go out and attract retailers. If the rent is so high that they can't get anyone there, they won't get any money at all. I'd say, even for someone who doesn't own their own business, that's just bad business.

Bookstores seem to be a touchy business. The old Champions Barnes and Noble has been where it is for a very long time and Borders is doing extremely poorly. There aren't any major book sellers that even exist except Books a Million which sticks with malls and you may find one in an entire city.

Waiting for the economy to get better is not the way to go. You have to be aggressive and get a head start on things so that when it does get better, you'd already have something established.

I'd bet many people have lost jobs, packed up and moved, or just plain quit this project, which is putting things in more delay.

I know it's repetitive but WOW, just WOW to how this thing has becomes such a mess.

[TechnoG]

I heard a report this morning on the radio (KTRH 740) that outdoor retail malls are on the way out and it's not expected that many more will not be developed in the country, or even in the Houston area. Apparently, they do not attract much business, even in the good times.

[houstongirl]

I heard a report this morning on the radio (KTRH 740) that outdoor retail malls are on the way out and it's not expected that many more will not be developed in the country, or even in the Houston area. Apparently, they do not attract much business, even in the good times.

I can agree with this to a point. However, Market Street and Uptown park are always busy.

[cnote]

I can agree with this to a point. However, Market Street and Uptown park are always busy.

I can't name any other outdoor malls, so Houston is 2/2. The new outlet mall in Cypress is always packed...so maybe 3/3. What about La Centerra in Cinco? I wonder what report said they are doing poorly nationally.

[jimcas]

I can't name any other outdoor malls, so Houston is 2/2. The new outlet mall in Cypress is always packed...so maybe 3/3.

Or if you include Vintage Park it's 3/4.

[katyresident]

I can't name any other outdoor malls, so Houston is 2/2. The new outlet mall in Cypress is always packed...so maybe 3/3. What about La Centerra in Cinco? I wonder what report said they are doing poorly nationally.

I always thought lacenterra was doing well.

[TechnoG]

I didn't catch what report they were quoting from, but it didn't sound like they were talking about the "outlet" malls. Also, the Woodlands and Uptown have been established for a few years now. I think it may be fair to say that the Woodlands Market Street didn't really have a lot of competition to pull in stores. It's in a unique position. They have a very nice mall right next door too, but I don't think there is much repetition of stores between the two, if any. Plus, the Woodlands still is a growing community so there is demand. A lot of people also come from outside the Woodlands. I agree with cnote that there is already a huge variety of stores not far from the Vintage Center, so it would really be hard to justify adding another store so close, or even relocate (especially at a higher rent and with the current economy). But there have been a couple of businesses that have relocated.

Anchor stores might be nice, but there does not seem to be any that want to open up new locations at this time. A big book store might be a nice anchor, but they aren't exactly making a lot of money these days as everything seems to be going online. I seem to remember Borders saying that they eventually see all of their business online a few years down the road. They have closed a lot of stores around the country in the last year or two.

If Vintage Park doesn't have a lot of unique stores to draw people in eventually, I can't see the current stores there now staying in business for a long time. Even the restaurants may have a hard time if people don't have reason to "experience" more than just the eating part. I think part of the reason that Market Street is so successful and unique is that there is a variety of things to do there before or after you have dined (good shopping, small concerts in their little park area, miniature golf, river walk, etc.). I just saw where Vintage Park announced some small musical entertainment for the summer, so at least they are trying to get something going.

Vintatge Park recently said they were 50% leased, but much of what they have announced so far is not going to draw big sustained crowds. Here's hoping that the next 50% will create more appealing stores and a more exciting experience.

[Trae]

I always thought lacenterra was doing well.

It is.

[cnote]

It is.

So if outdoor malls are doing poorly nationally, they are certainly fine here, except for Vintage that is....I think talk radio is full of it, maybe less outdoor malls are being built because malls in general are slowing down and because of the tightened lending practices in today's economy, but I don't think it is due to a shift in consumer tastes.

[Trae]

Retail in general is going through a slum nationally. Outdoor, indoor, etc. Texas and generally Houston are fairing better.

[houstongirl]

I drove through the property today and see there is a lot of activity going on as far as building out spaces.

Cheeburger Cheeburger opened today (July 22).

They've also added more businesses to the site plan, which FINALLY includes a few retail shops (albeit unknown ones).

-Yaya Clothing

-Tot Shop

-Signature Electronics

-Tickled Pink

-Marilyn Clyde (no idea what this is)

-Luminary Gems

-2 "Women's Accessories" stores

-Playtime for Kids ???

Also new are some more places to eat.

-Fresh Berry (yogurt)

-"Ice Cream" (which seems redundant)

-"Asian Restaurant" (also redundant)

-Mission Burrito

[cnote]

I drove through the property today and see there is a lot of activity going on as far as building out spaces.

Cheeburger Cheeburger opened today (July 22).

They've also added more businesses to the site plan, which FINALLY includes a few retail shops (albeit unknown ones).

-Yaya Clothing

-Tot Shop

-Signature Electronics

-Tickled Pink

-Marilyn Clyde (no idea what this is)

-Luminary Gems

-2 "Women's Accessories" stores

-Playtime for Kids ???

Also new are some more places to eat.

-Fresh Berry (yogurt)

-"Ice Cream" (which seems redundant)

-"Asian Restaurant" (also redundant)

-Mission Burrito

Wow, a Mission Burrito, I may actually end up visiting this center after all...

[mrfootball]

I like the fact they've signed some original sounding tenants and names that I've not heard of in Houston. Of course Mission Burrito is a familiar name and I heartily welcome its arrival.

[jimcas]

I like the fact they've signed some original sounding tenants and names that I've not heard of in Houston. Of course Mission Burrito is a familiar name and I heartily welcome its arrival.

Hopefully Mission Burrito will stay. I've seen some turnover on the site plan over the last several months for those colored Green for Lease Pending...

[looking_in_nw]

I didn't catch what report they were quoting from, but it didn't sound like they were talking about the "outlet" malls.

It was probably based on the Wall Street Journal article a couple weeks ago about lifestyle centers, these recent outdoor mall developments like the Vintage. I don't recall outlet malls mentioned in the article.

[houstongirl]

Hopefully Mission Burrito will stay. I've seen some turnover on the site plan over the last several months for those colored Green for Lease Pending...

Their corporate office has confirmed their intentions to open in this space, also saying they want to put a rush on it to open ASAP.

[jimcas]

I know I've ripped on Cheeburger Cheeburger a few times, but I haven't actually tried it... Has anyone been?