Thoughts On The Suburbs

[sevfiv]

yes, and thirty years isn't too long - and look west - that is why i mentioned schulenberg

[kjb434]

For the age of Houston, 30 years is a nice chunk. This city isn't that old.

Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles sprawled much larger than Houston. They started intiating commuter rail when they were about the size (metro land area) as Houston. Aren't we just following there development pattern?

When houston was building it's first freeway, it had maybe around 1 million people in the region, Los Angeles was well over the 3 million peolpe barrier.

[sevfiv]

i doubt we're following anyone's development pattern

[SpringTX]

For those of you unfamiliar with the suburbs, I was one of you until relatively recently. I, too, went most of my life thinking that urban was better, that the suburbs were bland and homogenous, that sprawl was evil, and that the decline of the center city was a national tragedy. Here's why that's basically all wrong. I'm liberally borrowing from posts made by others in this thread:

1) The inner loop has portions that are just as homogenous and family-oriented (versus young hipster-oriented) as the suburbs. In one post, the inner-loop proponents will say that there is more culture there. Then in the next post, they complain of the McMansions and the shiny new people gentrifying those inner loop neighborhoods.

2) The suburbs have many portions that are as downright diverse and funky as anything inside the loop. Come and check it out if you've never been out there. For example, the posts about how immigrants are settling in the suburbs now is very true. You can be 25 miles from downtown and see a brand new soul food restaurant that just opened in 2005, for example. A mile away is the Thai food restaurant consistently voted best in Houston, by the way.

3) Just because the suburbs are more family-friendly, doesn't mean they're more dull and homogenous. Have you seen the abundance of lazer tag places, paintball places, Chuck E Cheese type places, skateboard parks, used video game stores, water parks, and so on? The suburbs are cool as hell if you're 10 years old...or a parent of someone who is. The kids' pool parties in the suburbs are outrageous. The little-league sports are out of control. High school sports are HUGE spectator events for whole communities. Who cares about paying $40 to watch Yao Ming's tired, overpaid ass run up and down the court and get beat...when you can watch your neighbor's 18-year-old daughter dripping wet in a swimsuit at the next swim meet...for free!? The youth activities at churches cover everything imaginable. There are zillions of golf courses, tennis courts, and country clubs. And if you don't think the parents go nuts at parties of their own, you need to see it for yourself. I've seen a room full of soccer moms knock back so many margaritas, they might as well have been at a frat house. Desperate Housewives should tell some of you inner-loopers something about what you're missing out in suburbia. The number of lingerie stores in suburban Houston is quite signifcant. Just because your sexual partner happens to be someone of the opposite sex...who is married...TO YOU...doesn't mean that life has ended.

4) As others have pointed out, Houston sprawled out to places like The Woodlands 30 years ago and it's been in-fill ever since. The suburbs have been slowly getting denser and more diverse for the past 30 years. And it's made quite a lot of progress! It's not the stereotypical image of what things were like 30 years ago. There are apartment buildings, patio homes, townhouses, and even highrises. There are middle-income and upper-income and lower-income all within yards of each other. There are retirement communities and colleges and "projects" all rubbing shoulders.

5) If you live in the inner loop, can you drive 15 minutes and go horseback riding? How about camping in a national forest? Or boating on a lake? Can you cut down your own Christmas tree? Or go berry picking? The suburbs happen to be on the edge of the country, and that comes in handy sometimes.

6) In a lot of places in the suburbs, the relative lack of density sometimes truly does create fresher air, less noise, and less exposure to things like ladies who live out of shopping carts. Some will find this impossible to swallow, but it's actually true that many subdivisions built in the last 30 years (but not all) have a cornucopia of architectural styles. And if you think a grid pattern for streets is somehow LESS bland than a swirling array of curved streets and cul-de-sacs, you've got to come take a look.

7) If we want to see a room full of bored, obnoxious, twenty-somethings with bad haircuts and inflated egos try to recite bad poetry or whatever, we can always jump in the car and drive 20 minutes back toward downtown to see it. If we really want to hit those "wonderful" museums more than once per year...it's a 20-minute drive. If we want to see professional theatre instead of semi-professional community theatre, or high school theatre, it's 20 minutes away.

In summary, the image of the inner-loop being some sort of cosmopolitan city and everything beyond it being bland and lifeless bedroom communities...is just plain outdated. Houston now has multiple "downtowns"...some are even outside of 610. Almost everything you can find inside the loop is now also available outside the loop. The only real difference between the center city and the suburbs is that the former is generally (but not exclusively) geared toward those without kids, and the latter has a lot more communities of families with kids. Family life sure isn't "bland" or "lifeless" or "homogenous". If you haven't tried it, you don't know what you are missing.

[Casual Observer]

Who cares about paying $40 to watch Yao Ming's tired, overpaid ass run up and down the court and get beat...when you can watch your neighbor's 18-year-old daughter dripping wet in a swimsuit at the next swim meet...for free!?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've got my eye on you, you ol' perv!

Great post.

[RedScare]

He does have a point. So, Spring, are you saying that the Woodlands population swelled to 70,000 because they have a great swim team?

(Laura Wilkinson dives out there.)

EDIT: Changed Laura Miller to Laura Wilkinson. No one wants to see Dallas Mayor Laura Miller in a swimsuit.

[sevfiv]

...when you can watch your neighbor's 18-year-old daughter dripping wet in a swimsuit at the next swim meet...for free!?

[LTAWACS]

if the woodlands is a suburb prison, then the walls are forested buffers.  sentence me to life without parole. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hereby sentence you to life in prison without parole. Keep in mind though, you will not be allowed to leave your house. You won't be able to go to the store.

[LTAWACS]

Yeah I decided to chill out and have a beer, well a glass of wine anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What kind?

[LTAWACS]

That's why I said to no end and why does it have to stop.

Much of this country is quite undeveloped.

Let people have the option if they want to live way out there they can.

If people didn't want to live out there because its BAD they wouldn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One reason would be to reduce pollution. More people driving would only mean more SUVs on the road to pollute the air.

[Casual Observer]

One reason would be to reduce pollution. More people driving would only mean more SUVs on the road to pollute the air.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

More people driving does not mean more SUVs. Automobile makers building more SUVs means more SUVs.

The same could be said for guns if one were so inclined.. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. People used guns as a tool for which to kill people."

My point? Blame the Automobile makers - not the people

[RedScare]

More people driving does not mean more SUVs. Automobile makers building more SUVs means more SUVs.

The same could be said for guns if one were so inclined.. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. People used guns as a tool for which to kill people."

My point? Blame the Automobile makers - not the people

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be specific, American automakers, who fight for the right to build vehicles that people don't want to drive...and then market them so as to make it your patriotic duty to buy their inefficient vehicles.

[LTAWACS]

I've got my eye on you, you ol' perv!

Great post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know. He's GOT to have some pics...

[LTAWACS]

More people driving does not mean more SUVs. Automobile makers building more SUVs means more SUVs.

The same could be said for guns if one were so inclined.. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people. People used guns as a tool for which to kill people."

My point? Blame the Automobile makers - not the people

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The automakers are only responding to demand in the marketplace.

[dbigtex56]

SpringTX, you make some excellent points. The "Leave it to Beaver" (or John Waters' "Polyester", for the more perverse) views of suburban life are simplistic and dated. And as you pointed out, conformity of thought isn't limited to the suburbs.

What bothers me is that suburbs were designed exclusively for the benefit of automobile owners. I like to walk or take Metro - and you should be happy that I do, because I'm a terrible driver.

(I do things like stop at red lights, use turn signals, obey speed limits - and it confuses people.)

As bachanan has pointed out, The Woodlands may be an exception. It was planned to accomodate pedestrians and bicyclists as well as automobiles. However, it's not serviced by the Metro system; and I suspect that there's a dearth of greasy spoons, gay bars and thrift shops among their tree-lined paths.

Like it or not, America is dependent on the private automobile. I don't like it. Cars kill people. They pollute the air, take up entirely too much of the landscape, and make us dependent on some creepy people to satisfy our thirst for oil.

I'd be interested to hear from any happy suburban residents who are not automobile owners.

(Bueller....Bueller?)

[MidtownCoog]

Clear Lake, Champions, Southbelt are a few examples of burbs where you don't need a car. Metro can get you just about anywhere down there.

But some people actually like cars, belive it, or not.

I know I do.

[Casual Observer]

SpringTX, you make some excellent points. The "Leave it to Beaver" (or John

I'd be interested to hear from any happy suburban residents who are not automobile owners.

(Bueller....Bueller?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I remember debmartin a while back mentioning that she lives in west Memorial, and attempts to not use her car except when she absolutley has too.

deb?

[SpringTX]

He does have a point.  So, Spring, are you saying that the Woodlands population swelled to 70,000 because they have a great swim team? 

(Laura Wilkinson dives out there.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Believe it or not, one of the new marketing brochures published by The Woodlands has a full-page, 8x11, color picture on the back showing The Woodlands High School cheerleaders. I guess their zillion-dollar marketing gurus have figured out who their market is.

By the way, don't think that the soccer moms don't admit to ogling the studly 18-year-old neighbor's son when he gets on the diving block in his Speedo. All that fresh air in the suburbs can do wonders for some of the female libidos.

Seriously, the automobile is a serious problem to our environment, not to mention the traffic fatalities in this country, or even in the State, which is higher than most others. But since we can't cram all 2 million of us inside that 100-square-mile section downtown, that leaves us with options like:

* Alternate forms of fuel for cars (electric, etc.) to pollute less

* Commuter rail

* Park 'n Ride commuter buses

* HOV lanes

* Working in the edge city employment centers

* Telecommuting

[Casual Observer]

But since we can't cram all 2 million of us inside that 100-square-mile section downtown, that leaves us with options like:

* Alternate forms of fuel for cars (electric, etc.) to pollute less

* Commuter rail

* Park 'n Ride commuter buses

* HOV lanes

* Working in the edge city employment centers

* Telecommuting

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about Teleporting?

[LTAWACS]

SpringTX, you make some excellent points. The "Leave it to Beaver" (or John Waters' "Polyester", for the more perverse) views of suburban life are simplistic and dated. And as you pointed out, conformity of thought isn't limited to the suburbs.

What bothers me is that suburbs were designed exclusively for the benefit of automobile owners. I like to walk or take Metro - and you should be happy that I do, because I'm a terrible driver.

(I do things like stop at red lights, use turn signals, obey speed limits - and it confuses people.)

As bachanan has pointed out, The Woodlands may be an exception. It was planned to accomodate pedestrians and bicyclists as well as automobiles. However, it's not serviced by the Metro system; and I suspect that there's a dearth of greasy spoons, gay bars and thrift shops among their tree-lined paths.

Like it or not, America is dependent on the private automobile. I don't like it. Cars kill people. They pollute the air, take up entirely too much of the landscape, and make us dependent on some creepy people to satisfy our thirst for oil.

I'd be interested to hear from any happy suburban residents who are not automobile owners.

(Bueller....Bueller?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent points.

[MidtownCoog]

Greasy spoons, gay bars and thrift shops!

Hey, leave Pasadena out of it!

Those are gay bars on Spencer Hwy, right? Right?

[LTAWACS]

Greasy spoons, gay bars and thrift shops!

Hey, leave Pasadena out of it!

Those are gay bars on Spencer Hwy, right?  Right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. Someone gave you wrong directions.

[MidtownCoog]

My bad.

I was actually looking for the greasy gay thrift shop.

[LTAWACS]

My bad.

I was actually looking for the greasy gay thrift shop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see. Where is Gary when you need him?

[editor]

Like it or not, America is dependent on the private automobile. I don't like it. Cars kill people. They pollute the air, take up entirely too much of the landscape, and make us dependent on some creepy people to satisfy our thirst for oil.

Not all of America. I don't own a car anymore. Many of my neighbors don't own cars. But, we live in an area with ample public transportation, in a neighborhood designed to be a mix of business and residential, so it's not necessary.

I try to live with a little impact on the environment as I can. I walk when I can. I take a bus or train when I can. The place I live in now sits on land reclaimed from the sea. When I lived in Houston, I lived in a building almost a hundred years old, so I didn't plow under what little is left of the prairie.

It can be done, but not without a change in attitude by residents, and leaders willing to help make those changes worthwhile.

[editor]

Also... I want to applaud the members of this forum for this continuing discussion. There are now 312 messages in this thread, and it has remained largely on-topic and full of constructive thoughts. Thank you all for improving the quality of this forum.

[LTAWACS]

Not all of America.  I don't own a car anymore.  Many of my neighbors don't own cars.  But, we live in an area with ample public transportation, in a neighborhood designed to be a mix of business and residential, so it's not necessary.

I try to live with a little impact on the environment as I can.  I walk when I can.  I take a bus or train when I can.  The place I live in now sits on land reclaimed from the sea.  When I lived in Houston, I lived in a building almost a hundred years old, so I didn't plow under what little is left of the prairie. 

It can be done, but not without a change in attitude by residents, and leaders willing to help make those changes worthwhile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought you lived in Houston. In what city do you live if I may ask?

[The Great Hizzy!]

Ah, see, Wayne, you've jinxed it!

As for your comment on urban enviromentally responsive neighborhoods, I'm big on green landscapes mixed in with residential areas (not the contrived roof-top greens or figurative greens) but the natural urban greenspaces that you find in Seattle and even Chicago. The lack of greenery in SF, LA and, worst of all, NYC, IMO is a turn off. Makes the landscape look bleak. Granted, Los Angeles sits at the edge of a desert, so their lack of greenery is understandable, and the Bay peninsula doesn't have the natural greenery that you would find further north in Oregon or Washington state (or even here in the pine hills along the Gulf coast).

I think one of the lost arts in today's urban development is the creation of gardenways that front residential structures and seperate them from the sidewalks. It was one of the last changes that you saw in Brooklyn developments of the early 1900s; the architects thought more of the sidewalks and the growing lack of greenery in the borough. Unfortunately they were probably a good 50 to 60 years too late.

[YakuzaIce]

I thought you lived in Houston. In what city do you live if I may ask?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe Chicago.

Also good post @ editor.

[Gary]

This is a little off the subject but I had to share my joy.

This whole subburb thing is starting to get easier for me. They've just opened the newest on ramp for the Westpark tollway about a mile and a half from Mason and 1093. My commute to the Willowbend area is taking around 23 minutes from 99 and Kingsland.

This was yesterday and I was blown away at how quick I made it. By the way this was at 5:30, granted it was against the flow of traffic but it was still a great time.

This is great news for those of us living South of 10.