Memories Of Montrose

[ricco67]

As the older generation dies off, the homes are often found to be in various stages of disrepair, but for the most part are snapped up by "outsiders" that come from the burbs and want someplace affordable and close to the action...the same reason that the gays and artists moved in to begin with.

The new crop of people moving have a tendency to come in two flavors, those who are highly tolerant and moved there FOR the scene, and those that want to be "hip" but go out of their way to point out THEY are not gay and that the more straights the better.

[kylejack]

So Mary's, Chances, and Numbers (and hell, even Condoms Galore and Ernies), GONE.

[dbigtex56]

I remember that too, and I thought that was one of the reasons that the Guardian Angels started a chapter in Houston. But my earlier "dangerous" comment wasn't only about gay bashing, although that is part of it. I seem to recall the statistic that Lower Westheimer led the city in armed robberies back then, and that open use of IV drugs was a big problem with those seedy motels and modeling studios. If I'm remembering wrong, no doubt someone will correct me.

My recollection of the Guardian Angels is from the mid to late 80's - their headquarters was where the Avant Garden's parking lot is now. They wore raspberry berets, and would get pissed if you sang the Prince song within earshot. Lower Westheimer was also notorious as a destination for runaways at about this time - they would squat in the big abandoned Victorian houses (reading Anne Rice books, presumably.)

The most notorious motel - I forget its name - was closed down and extensively remodeled for use by the Montrose Clinic (now Legacy.) There's a certain irony in that some of the clients being treated may have been infected in the very same building....

[Fringe]

I have a couple of questions Fringe.  Was the percentage of gay family members as high during that time as it was in the 80's and 90's?   Any historical info about the time period of Montrose's transition from straight to predominantly gay took place?  The beginnings?  Midpoint?  Effectively complete?   I heard the percentage back in the 80's and 90's was around 99 percent.  How are we doing now that Montrose has become fashionable again for some of the straights to start moving back in?   Is this the point where we say ?. . . "there goes the neighborhood."   I certainly hope not.

Back then we didn't care or even bother to notice who was gay or straight. Either you where a stoner or you weren't. It was the hair for the most part that defined who you where. Of course that was back when I had hair. 

[Stargaze]

Trends and numbers can be sometimes fairly instructive. Does anyone reading have a handle on the numeric history as far as percentage of Montrose community who are gay for the 70's, 80's, 90's and 2000's? What about absolute and actual numbers. At one point I heard a figure of 250,000 community members who were family. Admittedly, that number was pre-1985. It seems like there are more gay people now than ever. I just don't know if they are starting to gravitate back to the Montrose area, or if the Houston gay population is still pushing towards blending throughout the city.

[dbigtex56]

Trends and numbers can be sometimes fairly instructive. Does anyone reading have a handle on the numeric history as far as percentage of Montrose community who are gay for the 70's, 80's, 90's and 2000's? What about absolute and actual numbers. At one point I heard a figure of 250,000 community members who were family. Admittedly, that number was pre-1985. It seems like there are more gay people now than ever. I just don't know if they are starting to gravitate back to the Montrose area, or if the Houston gay population is still pushing towards blending throughout the city.

Geez. I can't imagine how such data would be compiled (or why it should.)

[barracuda]

I can't vouch for the accuracy, but gaydemographics.org has the gay population of 77006 at 15.97% (12.83% Male Couples and 3.14% Female Couples), which is well above average. However, most gay friends of mine do not live in the 77006 zip code because it's too expensive now. We're spread all over the city (but mostly inside the loop).

[dbigtex56]

I do have one question, however. My memories of Montose 1980's style is that it was true to the gay culture of that time period in the sense that it heavily focused on celebrating the 20 somethings. Those of who were around back then, have added a year or two to our resumes.

A friend who lived in Montrose for many years and still isn't far away, said that the latest problem with the hustlers/homeless young people is that they tend to hang out in a sort of pack, I think he said in the area of the former Tower Theatre. If that's accurate, how much of a problem are they to the community these days? Back in the 80's it usually wasn't too hard to spot them because there was an obviously non-gay street dirtiness/roughness about them. I would imagine that problem is about the same.

As far as "better" goes, i had a friend who has been mugged on Fairview 5 times in the last 2 yrs. THAT part of montrose needs to be cleaned up.

Montrose has matured. One can be over 30 now and still be accepted. It helps if you accept that you're no longer 20-something.

However, wisdom doesn't always come with age. While there are still perfectly nice young gay men who come to (or live in) Montrose, 'cruising' is no longer fashionable or safe. If a guy who's twenty years younger and twice as good looking strikes up a conversation, it's plausible that he's trying to hustle, scam or mug you. I speculate that ricco67's friend either hasn't learned that lesson or was trying to buying crack.

So far as the Tower Theater bunch, good chance that some of them missed their curfew (or were expelled from) Covenant House, just around the corner.

[mkultra25]

So Mary's, Chances, and Numbers (and hell, even Condoms Galore and Ernies), GONE.

Since when is Numbers gone? There are still live shows listed on their website into November. Did I miss something?

Edit: Hadn't seen the other thread about it yet before I posted. Wow, that truly sucks.

Edited September 15, 2010 by mkultra25

[rsb320]

I can't vouch for the accuracy, but gaydemographics.org has the gay population of 77006 at 15.97% (12.83% Male Couples and 3.14% Female Couples), which is well above average. However, most gay friends of mine do not live in the 77006 zip code because it's too expensive now. We're spread all over the city (but mostly inside the loop).

How'd they come up with the "couples" percentages? What about singles? I demand to be counted!

[Stargaze]

How'd they come up with the "couples" percentages? What about singles? I demand to be counted!

I'm right there with you on being counted rsb320. Without gay singles there would be no gay couples, right?

A question for anyone on this perspective. As we get ready to begin the 20 teens (as in 2011, 2012. . .), where do we stand in terms of the greater Houston perception of Montrose? Is it still considered a gay mecca by the straight and gay communities (sorry, that's actually two questions in one)? Do you think the community gets props for making it through the 80's, 90's and 2000's? For those gay family members who have spread out to the inner loop, does the community still come together as one for major events like Pride in the same numbers and enthusiasm as when everyone lived as a close knit neighborhood?

[plumber2]

I lived in Montrose at about the same period as Looney. I was a student at The Univesity of St. Thomas starting with my junior year in 1975-1976. I lived in the dormitory on Graustark St. The students were somewhat insulated from the hippies, and gays, but there was tolerance. There were homosexuals in the dorm of course, and we all knew who they were. They kept to themselves and we didn't ask too many questions, as with most college campuses, everyone just did their own thing.

There were several gay bars nearby, that we all knew to stay out of. "Mary's" of course being the most obvious. A bunch of us guys went in there as a group one night, drunk of course. We were quickly run out, by the bar staff and a fewpatrons. They knew we were just goofing around.

There was another gay bar "Old Plantation" (or something like that) located in the old DePelchin building that the girls liked to go to because if was a good dance bar. We went along, but stayed pretty close to our dates. It was still too soon to be considered "cool" to be seen at a gay bar. Remember, this was 1975.

After graduation, I moved into a set of apartments down the street on Graustark (Castle Court I think). The manager did not want to rent to me at first. She said that they had "no vacancies at this time", until I said how dissapointed I was because I had dated a girl that used to live there, and that I had really liked the complex. This changed her tune and she suddenly had one vacancy coming up that very day. She obviously was not thrilled about renting to single men, unless they appeared striaght. I laugh about that now.

A few years later, around 1981, I was living in Montrose again (on W. Alabama at Stanford this time). My fiance never liked my apartment, so we moved out the the burbs and have been their ever since.

[Stargaze]

I lived in Montrose at about the same period as Looney. I was a student at The Univesity of St. Thomas starting with my junior year in 1975-1976. I lived in the dormitory on Graustark St. The students were somewhat insulated from the hippies, and gays, but there was tolerance. There were homosexuals in the dorm of course, and we all knew who they were. They kept to themselves and we didn't ask too many questions, as with most college campuses, everyone just did their own thing.

There were several gay bars nearby, that we all knew to stay out of. "Mary's" of course being the most obvious. A bunch of us guys went in there as a group one night, drunk of course. We were quickly run out, by the bar staff and a fewpatrons. They knew we were just goofing around.

There was another gay bar "Old Plantation" (or something like that) located in the old DePelchin building that the girls liked to go to because if was a good dance bar. We went along, but stayed pretty close to our dates. It was still too soon to be considered "cool" to be seen at a gay bar. Remember, this was 1975.

After graduation, I moved into a set of apartments down the street on Graustark (Castle Court I think). The manager did not want to rent to me at first. She said that they had "no vacancies at this time", until I said how dissapointed I was because I had dated a girl that used to live there, and that I had really liked the complex. This changed her tune and she suddenly had one vacancy coming up that very day. She obviously was not thrilled about renting to single men, unless they appeared striaght. I laugh about that now.

A few years later, around 1981, I was living in Montrose again (on W. Alabama at Stanford this time). My fiance never liked my apartment, so we moved out the the burbs and have been their ever since.

Thanks Plumber2. It's nice to hear about the Montrose 70's experience from the straight perspective. It helps to have a well rounded big picture view.

What about those of you who are family (as in gay family). My original question was as follows.

A question for anyone on this perspective. As we get ready to begin the 20 teens (as in 2011, 2012. . .), where do we stand in terms of the greater Houston perception of Montrose? Is it still considered a gay mecca by the straight and gay communities (sorry, that's actually two questions in one)? Do you think the community gets props for making it through the 80's, 90's and 2000's? For those gay family members who have spread out to the inner loop, does the community still come together as one for major events like Pride in the same numbers and enthusiasm as when everyone lived as a close knit neighborhood?

[mkultra25]

A few years later, around 1981, I was living in Montrose again (on W. Alabama at Stanford this time). My fiance never liked my apartment, so we moved out the the burbs and have been their ever since.

Which corner did you live on? Was that in the Norman (SE corner), by any chance? I lived there in '84 or so. Haven't been by there to see what's been built since it burned down last year.

[rsb320]

A question for anyone on this perspective. As we get ready to begin the 20 teens (as in 2011, 2012. . .), where do we stand in terms of the greater Houston perception of Montrose? Is it still considered a gay mecca by the straight and gay communities (sorry, that's actually two questions in one)? Do you think the community gets props for making it through the 80's, 90's and 2000's? For those gay family members who have spread out to the inner loop, does the community still come together as one for major events like Pride in the same numbers and enthusiasm as when everyone lived as a close knit neighborhood?

I think "Pride" is now more of a neighborhood/community event that's for everybody. Baby strollers, drag queens, old folks - you name it. The majority of gay bars are in Montrose, so these continue to be meeting places for those living outside of the area. There are still events going on that've been held for years. For example, Bunnies on the Bayou for Easter and Christmas in July, etc.

[IronTiger]

It was like Disneyland for gay people.

Everything was overpriced?

---

Seriously, though, today Montrose reminds me a bit of a yuppie neighborhood. It includes:

- Liberal and gay-friendly

- Whole Foods Market (of course)

- Independent coffee shops (also of course)

- Expensive yet modest-looking homes

- Art galleries and museums (Menil Collection being one of them, very nice)

- Well-maintained and aesthetically pleasing (mostly)

- Nice "inner-city feeling" without skyscrapers

[rsb320]

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Police-Montrose-area-homeowner-forced-to-shoot-suspect-who-went-hog-wild-after-his-car-was-towed-103127924.html

Dude goes hog-wild because his car was towed because it was blocking a Montrose resident's driveway. He was just inside fixin' some grits when he heard all this racket....

[barracuda]

Everything was overpriced?

---

Seriously, though, today Montrose reminds me a bit of a yuppie neighborhood.

I think you have Montrose confused with Uptown. Montrose in to me seems more anti-yuppie in spirit, despite all the townhouse yuppies who've moved into the area.

[JJVilla]

From an outsider perspective (grew in NW part of the county and live in Galleria area now) the overall view has changed for the area. It's still considered gay friendly and open-minded but the community has spread out more. It seems that the new residential hot spot is East End (since my straight friend invites me and my wife to their parties) but the clubs have remaimed in this original area.

Growing up I remember going to part of town to get help with my parent's immigration process, it was a pain but the non-profit groups were a big help.

[rsb320]

I think you have Montrose confused with Uptown. Montrose in to me seems more anti-yuppie in spirit, despite all the townhouse yuppies who've moved into the area.

Or maybe Upper Kirby District.

[dbigtex56]

http://www.khou.com/news/local/Police-Montrose-area-homeowner-forced-to-shoot-suspect-who-went-hog-wild-after-his-car-was-towed-103127924.html

Dude goes hog-wild because his car was towed because it was blocking a Montrose resident's driveway. He was just inside fixin' some grits when he heard all this racket....

Let's hope the intruder gets some jail time, and the homeowner gets a medal.

[IronTiger]

I'm a bit curious as to what Montrose looked like back in the "day". Part of me imagines Times Square, circa 1980, a decidedly-run-down area with porn shops and adult theaters occupying most of the block. Then again, I was awfully fond of downtown Bryan before its "revitalization" in the early 2000s...they turned a fairly authentic main street (complete with stoplights on posts!) to a drivable parking lot. At least the Queen Theater is still standing, before they "revitalize" that too.

[dbigtex56]

I'm a bit curious as to what Montrose looked like back in the "day". Part of me imagines Times Square, circa 1980, a decidedly-run-down area with porn shops and adult theaters occupying most of the block. Then again, I was awfully fond of downtown Bryan before its "revitalization" in the early 2000s...they turned a fairly authentic main street (complete with stoplights on posts!) to a drivable parking lot. At least the Queen Theater is still standing, before they "revitalize" that too.

I always described it as "Mayberry on acid". In the early 80's there were still residents who had lived in their houses since they were built in the twenties and thirties, and would still sit on front porches and say hello to passersby.

A walk down Westheimer might be: Oriental Modeling Studio, little old lady's house, antique shop, gay bar, dessert restaurant, clothing store, little old lady's house, tattoo parlor, head shop, adult book store, etc.

[Ross]

I always described it as "Mayberry on acid". In the early 80's there were still residents who had lived in their houses since they were built in the twenties and thirties, and would still sit on front porches and say hello to passersby.

A walk down Westheimer might be: Oriental Modeling Studio, little old lady's house, antique shop, gay bar, dessert restaurant, clothing store, little old lady's house, tattoo parlor, head shop, adult book store, etc.

As you dodged the 300,000 teenagers hanging around

[Stargaze]

I think "Pride" is now more of a neighborhood/community event that's for everybody. Baby strollers, drag queens, old folks - you name it. The majority of gay bars are in Montrose, so these continue to be meeting places for those living outside of the area. There are still events going on that've been held for years. For example, Bunnies on the Bayou for Easter and Christmas in July, etc.

I thought I read somewhere that Pride is now held at nighttime. The elderly and baby strollers come out in noticeable numbers after dark? Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just surprises me a little. And hasn't Pride always been a community event, you know, all inclusive. I was just wondering if the big gay events bring all of the gay family back to these events in the same numbers and intensity as when everyone could afford to live in Montrose. Don't you just hate supply and demand sometimes?

[Stargaze]

Everything was overpriced?

---

Seriously, though, today Montrose reminds me a bit of a yuppie neighborhood. It includes:

- Liberal and gay-friendly

- Whole Foods Market (of course)

- Independent coffee shops (also of course)

- Expensive yet modest-looking homes

- Art galleries and museums (Menil Collection being one of them, very nice)

- Well-maintained and aesthetically pleasing (mostly)

- Nice "inner-city feeling" without skyscrapers

I appreciate that description, and you're right, it does pretty much paint a picture of yuppiehood. What things that made the area uniquely Montrose back in the 70's through the 90's do you think are missing now? And what things unique to the area still give it that oh so special gay flavor that can be found nowhere else in the city?

[Stargaze]

I always described it as "Mayberry on acid". In the early 80's there were still residents who had lived in their houses since they were built in the twenties and thirties, and would still sit on front porches and say hello to passersby.

A walk down Westheimer might be: Oriental Modeling Studio, little old lady's house, antique shop, gay bar, dessert restaurant, clothing store, little old lady's house, tattoo parlor, head shop, adult book store, etc.

That's pretty much the way I remember it too. It's was like the perfect neighborhood not because of any one ingredient, but because it had just the right combination and proportions. Sadly, I think perhaps the adjustments that have been made to the ingredients, their arrangements and combinations may have noticeably altered the end result. I don't know if we'll ever be able to bake that cake again.

[Stargaze]

I think you have Montrose confused with Uptown. Montrose in to me seems more anti-yuppie in spirit, despite all the townhouse yuppies who've moved into the area.

Do you think if you make them feel uncomfortable and out of place that they might take the hint and move on to some place more yuppie-appropriate. Perhaps overwhelm them with more intense servings of the traditional gay Montrose ambiance and fare? They might either move out or become gay yuppies, either of which might not be so bad. Hmmmmm . . . .

[Stargaze]

From an outsider perspective (grew in NW part of the county and live in Galleria area now) the overall view has changed for the area. It's still considered gay friendly and open-minded but the community has spread out more. It seems that the new residential hot spot is East End (since my straight friend invites me and my wife to their parties) but the clubs have remaimed in this original area.

Growing up I remember going to part of town to get help with my parent's immigration process, it was a pain but the non-profit groups were a big help.

How are you defining "East End" in terms of streets bordering it? There are multiple subset areas which collectively comprise the East side. Please describe.

[dbigtex56]

What's amazing is the influence and notoriety Montrose holds despite its tiny area and population.

According to Wolfram Alpha Knowledge Engine, the 77006 population is only 18,875 (based on 2000 census), and barely over 2 square miles.

It can be argued that the 'Montrose Area' spills over into adjacent zip codes, but regardless...