METRORail Green Line

[TheNiche]

Thought I'd post an update. The East End Chamber has a comittee dedicated to rail issues; they came to the Eastwood Civic Assoc meeting last night to give a preso they gave to city hall an couple of weeks ago. Those of you who were at the Metro meeting a couple of months back will remember they unveiled their plans for the S&I facilty, and a huge bridge to bypass the UP line.

The East End Chamber has been working on a couple of things--for starters, pressing Metro for more transparency, and to make the case for an underpass instead of a bridge. Their numbers showed an underpass in that particular location being considerably less expensive than bridge ( the underpass has the benefit of not disrupting street level development the way the bridge would). At this point they're consolidating support among the civic assocations to put increased pressure on Metro to come to the table. And, they actually found an engineering study done in 2004 for an underpass at that very location. I don't have the handouts with me at the moment, when I get them I'll post the website with the study. Interesting stuff. They seem to be getting their act together on this.

AWESOME. Thanks, crunch!

[musicman]

I just can't fathom transparency and METRO in the same sentence.

at the meeting a few months ago, they were complaining about not having money for the bridge and yet, they all over a sudden "found" the resources to propose one closer to downtown along the same line.

thx for the update.

[Transit Nut]

at the meeting a few months ago, they were complaining about not having money for the bridge and yet, they all over a sudden "found" the resources to propose one closer to downtown along the same line.

The light rail bridge where the existing Harrisburg underpass is (closest to downtown) was always part of the plans. The light rail will follow its own alignment (rather than the road's alignment) due to some engineering issues.

[TheNiche]

The light rail bridge where the existing Harrisburg underpass is (closest to downtown) was always part of the plans. The light rail will follow its own alignment (rather than the road's alignment) due to some engineering issues.

I don't doubt that it was always in the plans. However, the presentation of those plans was very unclear. Musicman is correct--albeit perhaps for the wrong reason in this case--that METRO is not a very transparent organization.

[musicman]

The light rail bridge where the existing Harrisburg underpass is (closest to downtown) was always part of the plans.

the initial meeting i went to showed the alignment through the harrisburg underpass. it was later determined that the underpass didn't provide enough ROW.

[rsb320]

Thought I'd post an update. The East End Chamber has a comittee dedicated to rail issues; they came to the Eastwood Civic Assoc meeting last night to give a preso they gave to city hall an couple of weeks ago. Those of you who were at the Metro meeting a couple of months back will remember they unveiled their plans for the S&I facilty, and a huge bridge to bypass the UP line.

The East End Chamber has been working on a couple of things--for starters, pressing Metro for more transparency, and to make the case for an underpass instead of a bridge. Their numbers showed an underpass in that particular location being considerably less expensive than bridge ( the underpass has the benefit of not disrupting street level development the way the bridge would). At this point they're consolidating support among the civic assocations to put increased pressure on Metro to come to the table. And, they actually found an engineering study done in 2004 for an underpass at that very location. I don't have the handouts with me at the moment, when I get them I'll post the website with the study. Interesting stuff. They seem to be getting their act together on this.

I'll bet they won't go with an underpass. As it is, the Red Line can't go under Holcombe on Fannin when it rains hard. Buses then shuttle you from station to station.

[lockmat]

Is this the correct thread/rail line?

Harrisburg grade separation might happen...

http://www.houstontomorrow.org/livability/...n-might-happen/

[Houston19514]

Is this the correct thread/rail line?

Harrisburg grade separation might happen...

http://www.houstontomorrow.org/livability/...n-might-happen/

Yeah, I think that was decided quite some time ago. (Note: the date on the linked article was April '08)

[rsb320]

Is there any construction activity going on for this line yet? Seems like they had the ribbon cutting a while back.

[kylejack]

Kind of odd that the line going through historically black areas got named the Brown Line. You'd think someone would have picked a different color.

[musicman]

Is there any construction activity going on for this line yet? Seems like they had the ribbon cutting a while back.

just utility work west of the old maxwell house plant.

[MetroMogul]

I ride the 50 to work quite regularly now and um, there was no construction going on during my last run through this past weekend. All the barricades and equipment I'm used to seeing was moved for some reason. I'm assuming construction work has resumed but things seem to be progressing EXTREMELY slowly.

[Houston19514]

I ride the 50 to work quite regularly now and um, there was no construction going on during my last run through this past weekend. All the barricades and equipment I'm used to seeing was moved for some reason. I'm assuming construction work has resumed but things seem to be progressing EXTREMELY slowly.

All construction activity ceased for the holidays beginning December 23 through January 5. Utility construction was to resume January 5, between Milby and Lockwood.

The plan for this construction is:

1st Phase: Relocation of all public and private utilities. This is where we are now. Would not likely involve a whole lot of very visible "construction"

2nd Phase: Widening of streets, where necessary to make room for the tracks.

3rd Phase: Lay tracks

4th Phase: Building stations and finishing touches.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Houston19514

[CALMSP]

All construction activity ceased for the holidays beginning December 23 through January 5. Utility construction was to resume January 5, between Milby and Lockwood.

The plan for this construction is:

1st Phase: Relocation of all public and private utilities. This is where we are now. Would not likely involve a whole lot of very visible "construction"

2nd Phase: Widening of streets, where necessary to make room for the tracks.

3rd Phase: Lay tracks

2013

4th Phase: Building stations and finishing touches.

2016

Edited January 8, 2009 by CALMSP

[illusionescape]

Since I live very close to the beginning of the East End Line, I decided to take a drive down the entire route and film it to give those who live outside the area an idea of the line. It starts near the Lofts at the Ballpark, which is where the Bastrop Station will be located. For those who want to see what construction has taken place, you will see big orange drums in the middle of the video. That's the location of the construction so far. Also, I passed the Las Palmas Shopping Center, which is where the METRO Solutions office is for the East End Line. I finish the video at the Magnolia Transit Center Station.

I uploaded the video to YouTube. Check it out here...

[wernicke]

I uploaded the video to YouTube. Check it out here...

Pretty cool illusionescape... seems very low density. This line will take forever to be successful.

[Ianbian]

I also posted this in the East End subforum because I wanted to reach as many interested people as possible, and I didn't know which area would be more appropriate.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Ianbian

[lockmat]

A couple of questions.

1. In what ways are they planning on making this area like SA's riverwalk? I thought what helped made the riverwalk was the river?

2. Would the underpass really be cheaper? If so, it seems like it would be a no brainer for them to do this. I could definitely be wrong, but it seems like it would normally be more expensive to dig.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=64...mp;t=h&z=17

I'd like to see them go under.

Also, I could not find a website for that Harrisburg Merchants Association.

Edited January 20, 2009 by lockmat

[Ianbian]

1. In what ways are they planning on making this area like SA's riverwalk? I thought what helped made the riverwalk was the river?

Fair enough -- there won't be a river. The hope/plan is to have diverse architecture and a mixture of different retail and restaurant options along with nice landscaping and comfortable sidewalks. I guess another comparison would be the Village -- but with fewer cars everywhere. I'll post some pictures of the vision when I get some from the Harrisburg Merchants Association (they're working on them now to present to city council). I don't know why they don't have a website, but I promise they're a real group. It might be a more informal kind of association of business owners.

2. Would the underpass really be cheaper? If so, it seems like it would be a no brainer for them to do this. I could definitely be wrong, but it seems like it would normally be more expensive to dig.

Possibly. Almost certainly cheaper than METRO's estimate for the bridge ($45 million -- although this is probably an overestimate). Because of many factors (which I'd be happy to go into), a bridge would have to be nearly twice as long as an underpass. METRO doesn't deny this. That increases costs both in terms of construction but also right-of-way.

[lockmat]

I'll post some pictures of the vision when I get some from the Harrisburg Merchants Association (they're working on them now to present to city council).

Yes, please do.

Because of many factors (which I'd be happy to go into)

We've got the time

[Ianbian]

Something else to consider: even if an underpass ends up costing more, I believe it would still be worth it. Along Harrisburg is where we have developers like Frank Liu and Julio del Carpo buying up property and trying to turn it into something that serves the community. I for one am dying to see more grocery and restaurant options in the neighborhood, and Harrisburg is the natural location for these projects. It's also where a rather expensive light rail line is going, which I think is a pretty good sign that Harrisburg is where METRO and the City expect development to happen too. But many of those same developers who want to build these things for the community and take advantage of the proximity to light rail are saying that a 2000-foot bridge will make it a LOT harder, if not impossible.

The East End subforum has a poll about what people would like to see in the East End. I strongly believe we are going to be seeing ALL of those things built (grocery, restaurant, bars, entertainment, etc) if we don't put obstacles in their way. And a bridge is just that kind of obstacle. And it's going to be an obstacle for 50-100+ years. How much would a good alternative to the Cullen Kroger be worth? How much would an alternative to Mexican food (the East End has some damn fine TexMex, but not much else) be worth?

[Ianbian]

We've got the time

Yeah, but do I?

A Harrisburg overpass will be over twice as long as an underpass because:

1. Overpass will have to go over freight trains. Freight trains can be very tall, somewhere in the neighborhood of 22-25 feet. A bridge has to completely clear that. The tallest thing an underpass will have to clear are the light-rail vehicles, which require about 15 feet.

2. East Belt rail line is at a higher grade than Harrisburg. The freight tracks are several feet higher than Harrisburg. IE -- there's a bump there as you drive over the tracks. Those extra feet add to the clearance a bridge needs. Conversely, they take away from the required depth of an underpass.

3. ADA Compliance. A bridge cannot go any steeper than a 5% grade because the accompanying sidewalk can't be too steep for people in wheelchairs. The sidewalk of an underpass, however, is not constrained to the same depth/grade as the main lanes. Therefore, the slope of the underpass is determined by the light rail vehicles, which require a slope of no more than 7%. Steeper slope = shorter incline for a given height.

4. Caylor Street must remain open. Houston Armature Works owns warehouses on either side of Harrisburg and uses Caylor as an access road. Because of the above three considerations, a bridge will not be able to descend before Caylor and thus must remain in the air over Caylor. An underpass, because of the above considerations, will be able to reach grade by Caylor, and its length is thus unaffected by the need to keep Caylor open.

Two comparable locations: the Navigation bridge over the same freight tracks (almost 2000 feet) and the Fannin underpass under Holcombe (a little over 1000 feet). The Harrisburg bridge will be longer than the Navigation bridge because of the Caylor requirement. There should be no substantial difference in length between the underpasses.

[musicman]

Something else to consider: even if an underpass ends up costing more, I believe it would still be worth it. Along Harrisburg is where we have developers like Frank Liu and Julio del Carpo buying up property and trying to turn it into something that serves the community.

and then telling residents only takers are ross and cvs.

I for one am dying to see more grocery and restaurant options in the neighborhood, and Harrisburg is the natural location for these projects. It's also where a rather expensive light rail line is going, which I think is a pretty good sign that Harrisburg is where METRO and the City expect development to happen too.

like main st in midtown?

But many of those same developers who want to build these things for the community and take advantage of the proximity to light rail are saying that a 2000-foot bridge will make it a LOT harder, if not impossible.

so they're doing this for the community? or to make a buck?

[TheNiche]

and then telling residents only takers are ross and cvs.

so they're doing this for the community? or to make a buck?

Both, obviously. Is it really possible to make a buck on retail if the community does not benefit from and utilize it!?

There's also a lot of vacant spec space still planned. From the beginning, Liu has been saying that a lot of his tenants will be neighborhood-oriented independent outfits. Those types of tenants do not have the wherewithal or credit to prelease space long in advance of a large new retail center. They'll come in only once it is completed.

[musicman]

They'll come in only once it is completed.

so no news is good news i guess.

[TheNiche]

so no news is good news i guess.

The news about Ross and CVS is news. And it is very good news. You can't get a retail center of that size financed without them in place first.

[musicman]

The news about Ross and CVS is news. And it is very good news.

some of the area residents weren't happy when they heard these proposed tenants. expectations are different.

[crunchtastic]

some of the area residents weren't happy when they heard these proposed tenants. expectations are different.

Lol, they certainly are. I know that some folks aren't happy with Ross because it's too downmarket. God forbid it would attract shoppers from the north side of Harrisburg.

[CALMSP]

not happy??? what do they want??? liquor store and cash 'r us???

[kylejack]

not happy??? what do they want??? liquor store and cash 'r us???

I live on the East End and would like another grocery store than that piddly Kroger on Cullen, please. And no, the Chef Boyardee sold in CVS does not count.