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METRORail Green Line


Guest danax

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Why did METRO start constructing the Brown Line when City Council hasn't even approved a means of turning the Brown Line vehicles around?

Why would METRO want the city council to approve a turn-around? The last thing you want in any large project is to give bureaucrats the ability to make a mess of things at every turn.

How long are you gonna have to sit at a light where it intersects with the red line??? its bad enough that you have to stop when both the train and the cars are going straight.

Unless you have a flashing red or blue light on the top of your car, you're not that important. You can wait an extra 15 seconds for 100 people to cross in front of you on a train while you're sipping you latte in your air conditioned SUV.

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So is the apparatus that runs on St. Charles in New Orleans a tram or light rail? Sometimes it is in the neutral ground making it light rail, and sometimes it shares the road with the cars, making it a tram. Is that right? Should Tennessee Williams have called his play "A Tram Named Desire?" I just don't know anymore.

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Why would METRO want the city council to approve a turn-around? The last thing you want in any large project is to give bureaucrats the ability to make a mess of things at every turn.

Any time that METRO wants to make a big change to City-owned right of way, METRO has to get approval from the city council. Nobody at the City has a line-item veto, however, so METRO is usually careful to consult with them on the big things beforehand and piss them off with little things only up to the point at which there may be some pushback.

Unless you have a flashing red or blue light on the top of your car, you're not that important. You can wait an extra 15 seconds for 100 people to cross in front of you on a train while you're sipping you latte in your air conditioned SUV.

The thing is that if you get caught at Main Street, which is out of sync with the rest of the downtown lights, then you're probably going to get caught at the next light, depending on which direction you're headed. The three-block-long plaza around the 1000 block also disrupts the efficient flow of the grid...I wish they hadn't done that and really would've preferred it if they had continued like they had had it in the Museum District...which is the same way that they're going to set it up this time for the new Southeast Line.

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Actually it's a street car unless wiki is wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Charles_Avenue_Streetcar

A "trolley" is the name for the wheel that runs along the overhed wire, or the name of the pole that touches the overhead wire. Those kinds of trolley cars eventually became known as "trolleys." So a streetcar, tram, or lightrail could actually all be types of trolley cars as long as they are powered by the overhead wires.

"A Trolley Named Desire?" I don't know. But now I am starting to think that our light rail tram system is actually a trolley. I think it sounds cooler actually. "I took the trolley to the gun show." "I got wasted and had to take the trolley home." "I can't believe another person turned left in front of the trolley." I think I'll try it for awhile.

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Unless you have a flashing red or blue light on the top of your car, you're not that important. You can wait an extra 15 seconds for 100 people to cross in front of you on a train while you're sipping you latte in your air conditioned SUV.

okay, well first off, i dont drink coffee. Secondly, I dont drive to work, I either ride my bike or take the bus. thirdly, as busy as it is downtown with the traffic, this will just put more of navigating through downtown at more of a congestion. Why would we want to do that??? Why would we want to risk more accidents with drivers/walkers/bikers??

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okay, well first off, i dont drink coffee. Secondly, I dont drive to work, I either ride my bike or take the bus. thirdly, as busy as it is downtown with the traffic, this will just put more of navigating through downtown at more of a congestion. Why would we want to do that??? Why would we want to risk more accidents with drivers/walkers/bikers??

There are tradeoffs associated with all transit decisions. I submit, having officed on the Red Line for 4 years, that the added congestion of a 90 foot long rail vehicle crossing an intersection every 6 to 12 minutes is minimal. Just as Niche's suggestion that having to occasionally stop at two stoplights instead of one is going to knock the earth off its axis, I think your suggestion that an east-west LRV that moves at the same rate of speed as the automobiles next to it is going to bring downtown traffic to a halt is a bit overwrought as well.

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There are tradeoffs associated with all transit decisions. (1) I submit, having officed on the Red Line for 4 years, that the added congestion of a 90 foot long rail vehicle crossing an intersection every 6 to 12 minutes is minimal. Just as (2) Niche's suggestion that having to occasionally stop at two stoplights instead of one is going to knock the earth off its axis, I think your suggestion that an east-west LRV that moves at the same rate of speed as the automobiles next to it is going to bring downtown traffic to a halt is a bit overwrought as well.

1. Having officed on the Red Line for 4 years, you should've noticed that it was bidirectional along a single right of way, and that the 6- to 12-minute intervals between trains is for service in a particular direction, not just any direction. Therefore trains in actuality pass through an intersection between every three to six minutes. You also should've noticed that traffic signals won't only be overridden as red during the time that the train is physically passing by, but will remain red for a full cycle before turning back to green for a full cycle (or until the next train comes along), and that for all intents and purposes Main Street is totally removed from the City's signal management program.

2. You have misunderstood what I said. Signalization is going to be a problem one way or the other, but by providing unidirectional service on parallel streets, they maintain greater traffic capacity each way and maintain a more functional grid. You are correct, that it does create another signal problem. But like you said to start with, its all about tradeoffs.

Edited by TheNiche
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It also illustrates that you seem not to regret wasted time on your part or to value that of others.

True. But, it is hard to get too upset when half the time the light is green, and the other half of the time (unlike your statement to the contrary), the light short cycles for perhaps 30 seconds, tops. In fact, it probably would take me longer to complain about the light than the light actually remains red.

I realize that my posts do not change your mind, but I think it is illustrative to other readers who might not come downtown on a regular basis to know that not every complaint about government, METRO or the light rail is legitimate. Whether prompted by some anti-government ideology, a belief that mass transit is for poor people, or an over-inflated sense of self-worth that that demands that every light be green when one approaches it, some complaints are just plain entitlement whining. On this particular issue, your complaints are just not valid. I don't know how many different ways I can say that the LRT does not impede my progress, but it doesn't. And, I've never heard a complaint from those who would be most affected, the office workers around me.

Sounds like you delicate flower too much. And few people are listening.

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In fact, it probably would take me longer to complain about the light than the light actually remains red.

Multitask.

I realize that my posts do not change your mind, but I think it is illustrative to other readers who might not come downtown on a regular basis to know that not every complaint about government, METRO or the light rail is legitimate. Whether prompted by some anti-government ideology, a belief that mass transit is for poor people, or an over-inflated sense of self-worth that that demands that every light be green when one approaches it, some complaints are just plain entitlement whining. On this particular issue, your complaints are just not valid. I don't know how many different ways I can say that the LRT does not impede my progress, but it doesn't. And, I've never heard a complaint from those who would be most affected, the office workers around me.

Sounds like you delicate flower too much. And few people are listening.

I would concur that an anti-government ideology is illegitimate, but nobody is presenting that. So that part of your retort is itself illegitimate.

...not every complaint about government, METRO or the light rail is legitimate. Whether prompted by...a belief that mass transit is for poor people...

I would concur that a belief that mass transit is for poor people is illegitimate, but nobody is presenting that. So that part of your retort is itself illegitimate.

...not every complaint about government, METRO or the light rail is legitimate. Whether prompted by...an over-inflated sense of self-worth that that demands that every light be green when one approaches it

I would concur that an an over-inflated sense of self-worth that that demands that every light be green when one approaches it would be illegitimate, but nobody is presenting that. So that part of your retort is itself illegitimate.

At least on this point, you've attempted to draw from what I'd said as the basis for an attempt at a legitimate counterpoint. However, my time by itself would be an exceptionally poor justification for basically any consideration on a project of this expense and scale. Rather than be concerned with the concern for "one's" time, I am concerned for the wasted time of the constituents whose time METRO is tasked with saving. Mobility is a multi-modal effort, after all, but METRO frequently seems to take the kind of provincial attitude that if they aren't operating the vehicle, it must inherently be of a lesser mode...they aren't really even contributing much of anything to the pedestrian improvements that encourage transit use.

...not every complaint about government, METRO or the light rail is legitimate. ...some complaints are just plain entitlement whining.

Taxpayers are entitled. That they express concern for the effectiveness of public investments is a legitimate matter.

On this particular issue, your complaints are just not valid.

See above. Your retort is mostly invalid; the whole of the remainder is incorrect.

I don't know how many different ways I can say that the LRT does not impede my progress, but it doesn't. And, I've never heard a complaint from those who would be most affected, the office workers around me.

By my estimation, I am inconvenienced by signal disruption in the downtown area approximately once every three times I attempt to cross Main Street. My sample size, albeit perhaps not as large as yours, is most certainly statistically significant. The difference in terms of comparative experience is thus statistically not very significant.

Sounds like you delicate flower too much. And few people are listening.

Your closing statement is irrelevent. It bespeaks your lack of understanding of why I'm talking to you.

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do we know how the Brown line will be built on Harrisburg when it goes underneath the train tracks near Dowling?? The city just spent all sorts of money on new trees and fake art sculptures and leaves no room for putting in tracks without cutting the traffic lanes from 2 to 1 lane.

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do we know how the Brown line will be built on Harrisburg when it goes underneath the train tracks near Dowling?? The city just spent all sorts of money on new trees and fake art sculptures and leaves no room for putting in tracks without cutting the traffic lanes from 2 to 1 lane.

up earlier in the thread it says they are proposing a 2600' elevated structure.

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Does anybody have any construction updates? Are the roads torn up? Is there a lot of activity along the first construction segment?

they aren't that far along. i went by about 2 weeks ago and they were only doing utility work in a small segment.

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they aren't that far along. i went by about 2 weeks ago and they were only doing utility work in a small segment.

I drive through there everyday, and there is not much going on. They cleared some old buildings on the side of the road, but nothing major going on. You would even know that they are doing anything out there, related to metro rail, just a bunch of barriors alongside of the street. I want to see the streets torn up already. At this rate, they will be luck if they get it doen by 2012. I do see a lot, i mean alot of trees by the underpass just outside of downtown, thats about it though.

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Is it possible to add up all of the $$$ not to mention all the wasted energy and hoola that went into the ground breaking ceremonies?

This like inviting everyone to a huge party and then cancel at last minute. Again how much m o n e y was wasted.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Does anyone know what the orange markings are for on the north side of Texas Ave.? I thought the rail was going to be on Rusk in one direction and Capital in the other. Could this route have been moved one block north? Also, this could be something totally unrelated.

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I drive through there everyday, and there is not much going on. They cleared some old buildings on the side of the road, but nothing major going on. You would even know that they are doing anything out there, related to metro rail, just a bunch of barriors alongside of the street. I want to see the streets torn up already. At this rate, they will be luck if they get it doen by 2012. I do see a lot, i mean alot of trees by the underpass just outside of downtown, thats about it though.

Still waiting. No activity.

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Still waiting. No activity.

Update. Things are starting to pick up. There is more of the curb side streets being torn up than a few weeks ago. It is starting to get messy, so I might have to start finding an alternate route to take to work than Harrisburg. They have the street cut off on one side, and barracades on the left hand side (heading out of DT). The right side has been convereted into a two way maze of cones. I almost saw a guy eat it today when he was driving on the wrong side, onto on coming traffic. Meanwhile, one of the workers was dazed and confused almost walked across the street without looking, he almost ate his Siht when I honked to let him know I was coming through HAHA! Brown Streaks in his chones!! Good thing I was driving slow.

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  • 1 month later...

Thought I'd post an update. The East End Chamber has a comittee dedicated to rail issues; they came to the Eastwood Civic Assoc meeting last night to give a preso they gave to city hall an couple of weeks ago. Those of you who were at the Metro meeting a couple of months back will remember they unveiled their plans for the S&I facilty, and a huge bridge to bypass the UP line.

The East End Chamber has been working on a couple of things--for starters, pressing Metro for more transparency, and to make the case for an underpass instead of a bridge. Their numbers showed an underpass in that particular location being considerably less expensive than bridge ( the underpass has the benefit of not disrupting street level development the way the bridge would). At this point they're consolidating support among the civic assocations to put increased pressure on Metro to come to the table. And, they actually found an engineering study done in 2004 for an underpass at that very location. I don't have the handouts with me at the moment, when I get them I'll post the website with the study. Interesting stuff. They seem to be getting their act together on this.

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