Camden Travis: Multifamily At 2700 Travis St.

[Subdude]

But again, if it were simply a matter of location then why was Midtown (and Fourth Ward) so awful for so many years?

If anything I would be willing to bet that the long-term prognosis for Midtown is dire at best. The quality of many of the apartment blocks is poor, and once they start showing their age all those people who want to be close to the Museum District etc will turn tail and run. At that point the owners won't have much choice but to lower rents, and the downward spiral starts. The problem is compounded by the sheer number of rental units in a relatively small area, along with a lack of a stable residential base throughout much of the neighborhood, and a concentration of social service agencies and persistent problems with prostitution and drugs in the rest.

It's too bad, because if the city had been able to engage in any more comprehensive a planning process than granting a TIRZ and putting up clever new street signs, then things might have been different.

[ricco67]

But again, if it were simply a matter of location then why was Midtown (and Fourth Ward) so awful for so many years?

If anything I would be willing to bet that the long-term prognosis for Midtown is dire at best. The quality of many of the apartment blocks is poor, and once they start showing their age all those people who want to be close to the Museum District etc will turn tail and run. At that point the owners won't have much choice but to lower rents, and the downward spiral starts. The problem is compounded by the sheer number of rental units in a relatively small area, along with a lack of a stable residential base throughout much of the neighborhood, and a concentration of social service agencies and persistent problems with prostitution and drugs in the rest.

It's too bad, because if the city had been able to engage in any more comprehensive a planning process than granting a TIRZ and putting up clever new street signs, then things might have been different.

I would have to disagree.

During the 80's, we had an extremely high crime rate that occured with the oil bust as well as land values out in the burbs were dropping like a stone and quite a bit of "White flight" was happening at the same time.

Unless we have a perfect storm like that again, I don't see it happening; particularly with the projected population by 2025.

[kylejack]

Extremely cheap gasoline fueled the suburban boom and expensive gas will bring it all back together.

[kdog08]

But again, if it were simply a matter of location then why was Midtown (and Fourth Ward) so awful for so many years?

If anything I would be willing to bet that the long-term prognosis for Midtown is dire at best. The quality of many of the apartment blocks is poor, and once they start showing their age all those people who want to be close to the Museum District etc will turn tail and run. At that point the owners won't have much choice but to lower rents, and the downward spiral starts. The problem is compounded by the sheer number of rental units in a relatively small area, along with a lack of a stable residential base throughout much of the neighborhood, and a concentration of social service agencies and persistent problems with prostitution and drugs in the rest.

It's too bad, because if the city had been able to engage in any more comprehensive a planning process than granting a TIRZ and putting up clever new street signs, then things might have been different.

It isn't simply a matter of location, there are many socioeconomic factors involved as well that Ricco67 touched upon. I don't think that Midtown is going to continue to be a "young hip area" indefinitely, but it can establish itself as a unique "urban" area of Houston if it continues to make improvement to its infrastructure. Also, let us be realistic, rail gives it an advantage over many other inner loop areas. It may not have happened yet, as rail has driven up land prices to where it has been hard for people to make proper use of TOD. However, who knows what may happen in the future.

I think comprehensive planning can be either great/terrible. How could have planning predicted real estate crashes, white flight, economic recessions, etc.; on the other hand, it could help the recovery process by implementing good land use practices. To me though, it's pretty hard to predict or plan what good land use may be in the future as it changes throughout time.

[ricco67]

It isn't simply a matter of location, there are many socioeconomic factors involved as well that Ricco67 touched upon. I don't think that Midtown is going to continue to be a "young hip area" indefinitely, but it can establish itself as a unique "urban" area of Houston if it continues to make improvement to its infrastructure. Also, let us be realistic, rail gives it an advantage over many other inner loop areas. It may not have happened yet, as rail has driven up land prices to where it has been hard for people to make proper use of TOD. However, who knows what may happen in the future.

I think comprehensive planning can be either great/terrible. How could have planning predicted real estate crashes, white flight, economic recessions, etc.; on the other hand, it could help the recovery process by implementing good land use practices. To me though, it's pretty hard to predict or plan what good land use may be in the future as it changes throughout time.

I agree, but as the economy starts turning around in the next year or so, people will move back in and the prices will start a steady increase.

Will the prices go up again like they have in the past? I don't think so, but I'd rather have a nice, slow, and steady increase than an astronomical jump.

[kylejack]

Plenty of houses and apartments in Midtown, but no condos to speak of, aye? Wonder why that is. Lots of condos in downtown, Montrose, River Oaks...

Edit: Well I guess there's a couple. Rise Lofts for example, and Edge, and 2016 Main.

Edited August 4, 2009 by kylejack

[brian0123]

But again, if it were simply a matter of location then why was Midtown (and Fourth Ward) so awful for so many years?

If anything I would be willing to bet that the long-term prognosis for Midtown is dire at best. The quality of many of the apartment blocks is poor, and once they start showing their age all those people who want to be close to the Museum District etc will turn tail and run. At that point the owners won't have much choice but to lower rents, and the downward spiral starts. The problem is compounded by the sheer number of rental units in a relatively small area, along with a lack of a stable residential base throughout much of the neighborhood, and a concentration of social service agencies and persistent problems with prostitution and drugs in the rest.

It's too bad, because if the city had been able to engage in any more comprehensive a planning process than granting a TIRZ and putting up clever new street signs, then things might have been different.

Everyone has already touched on most of the counterpoints to you. The only thing I can really add is...

You cannot compare Houston of the 70's and 80's to the Houston of today (and the same goes for many other cities around the country). The types of industry and jobs now, the population growth (and projected future numbers), etc. Heck, just think about our downtown and how far it has come (and is going). Discovery Green, new towers and buildings, nightlife, MASS TRANSIT, soon to be soccer stadium, etc. Think about Herman Park improvements since then, Miller Outdoor Theatre, the Med Center's insane explosion of growth, Reliant Stadium, Minute Maid, (and the list goes on). Midtown is in the middle of ALL of these improved things where millions and millions of dollars have been spent since the 80's (hence Midtown's surge in popularity since then).

Apartments are EVERYWHERE in Houston, and EVERYONE is at risk of them lowering property values of surrounding areas. While Midtown is no exception... neither is the rest of Houston... or the Woodlands... or Sugarland... or Katy (etc.).

[brian0123]

Plenty of houses and apartments in Midtown, but no condos to speak of, aye? Wonder why that is. Lots of condos in downtown, Montrose, River Oaks...

Edit: Well I guess there's a couple. Rise Lofts for example, and Edge, and 2016 Main.

Don't forget...

Park Lofts http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=52446496&class=2

Chenevert Condominiums http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=34108546&class=2&sType=0

Ellie Lofts http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=5520982&class=2

[kdog08]

I thought the area east of Main/Fannin was full of townhomes and condos but I very well could be mistaken. The time I've actually driven in that area it was like night and day between the two areas, maybe the area I am referring isn't Midtown.

[brian0123]

I thought the area east of Main/Fannin was full of townhomes and condos but I very well could be mistaken. The time I've actually driven in that area it was like night and day between the two areas, maybe the area I am referring isn't Midtown.

That is Midtown (I live on that side). Tons of townhouses all over. That is the more "neighborhood" side of Midtown that no one really knows about. Check out Baldwin Park sometime when you're in the area.

[kylejack]

I thought the area east of Main/Fannin was full of townhomes and condos but I very well could be mistaken. The time I've actually driven in that area it was like night and day between the two areas, maybe the area I am referring isn't Midtown.

Lots of townhomes very few condos.

[lockmat]

In fact, 30 years ago, Midtown was Gulfton and Gulfton was Midtown. Gulfton was where the young, hip, and trendy professionals lived and partied, just as Midtown is today. The real estate crash of 1986 slayed that beast, and present day Gulfton rose from the carcas. Just as the Boomtown days helped fill Gulfton's apartments, the bubble of the last 10 years built Midtown. The only thing missing (so far) is the real estate crash.

Well, at least there will be plenty of people to fill in the unpopular apartments when it gets to that point, and then there will be people walking around all over the place since it'll probably be cheaper to walk than drive a car. It will be an urbanists delight

[shasta]

Don't forget...

Park Lofts http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=52446496&class=2

Chenevert Condominiums http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=34108546&class=2&sType=0

Ellie Lofts http://search.har.com/engine/dispSearch.cfm?mlnum=5520982&class=2

Condos?- Don't forget the Edge in midtown that's all condos

['Stonian]

Hey guys I browse this site weekly however this is my first ever post! When I lived in Houston's Post Midtown Square 8-9 years ago I prayed that "Midtown" would eventually get developed into this true urban oasis that many Haif'ers (like myself) crave, but when I would come back to visit 2-3 times a year I would notice that "Midtown" was at best slow to develop and half of the new development was disappointing to say the least (i.e. both new suburban style CVS stores).

I live in Midtown Atlanta right in the mix of everything and would always wonder why Houston's "Midtown" couldn't get their act together. My neighborhood is vibrant, eclectic, and walkable with numerous newly developed and older highrise and midrise condos above retail.

When visiting Houston back in June of this year I finally realized that "Midtown" is really not comparable with Atlanta's Midtown in terms of demographics, economics, and development focus. For years I had been comparing apples and oranges. However what I did observe is that Houston does have an "Atlanta-like" midtown area but it's just not called "Midtown". In fact I'm not sure if it really has an identifying name at all. I'd say the area west/southwest of downtown extending pretty much all the way out towards the River Oaks/Uptown area is Houston's true "Midtown"!

The blighted area south/southwest of the CBD between downtown and the medical center has potential to be this great urban utopia, however I believe the attention of developers has always been the area more west of downtown for obvious reasons (demographics, median household income, population etc.)

[kylejack]

Condos?- Don't forget the Edge in midtown that's all condos

I mentioned The Edge.

[rsb320]

Landscaping is going in toward the northern end of the property. The oaks appear to be pretty good size.

[BigSky]

Hey guys I browse this site weekly however this is my first ever post! When I lived in Houston's Post Midtown Square 8-9 years ago I prayed that "Midtown" would eventually get developed into this true urban oasis that many Haif'ers (like myself) crave, but when I would come back to visit 2-3 times a year I would notice that "Midtown" was at best slow to develop and half of the new development was disappointing to say the least (i.e. both new suburban style CVS stores).

I live in Midtown Atlanta right in the mix of everything and would always wonder why Houston's "Midtown" couldn't get their act together. My neighborhood is vibrant, eclectic, and walkable with numerous newly developed and older highrise and midrise condos above retail.

When visiting Houston back in June of this year I finally realized that "Midtown" is really not comparable with Atlanta's Midtown in terms of demographics, economics, and development focus. For years I had been comparing apples and oranges. However what I did observe is that Houston does have an "Atlanta-like" midtown area but it's just not called "Midtown". In fact I'm not sure if it really has an identifying name at all. I'd say the area west/southwest of downtown extending pretty much all the way out towards the River Oaks/Uptown area is Houston's true "Midtown"!

The blighted area south/southwest of the CBD between downtown and the medical center has potential to be this great urban utopia, however I believe the attention of developers has always been the area more west of downtown for obvious reasons (demographics, median household income, population etc.)

[BigSky]

You are correct, CBD to Medical Center could be a fantastic Urban Utopia, but I think the difference between ATL and Houston is the lack of zoning. Without it, I've heard numerous sophisticated developers state that they are scared to make great investments into CBD/Midtown due to that reason. In addition, CBD is struggling to attract the type of jobs that are needed to sustain the urban utopia lifestyle. We do not have a great concentration of the creative class that would appreciate that type of environment. In addition, Rice University which is right in between the two employment centers never tried to integrate themselves into the city, which could have been a great conduit to building the creative class in Houston. I think Houston is a facinating city that could have a lot to offer, but the lack of vision of the city planners (or lack thereof) is the biggest problem. ATL was developed by intelligent design not by evolution and unregulated land development.

[AtticaFlinch]

In fact I'm not sure if it really has an identifying name at all. I'd say the area west/southwest of downtown extending pretty much all the way out towards the River Oaks/Uptown area is Houston's true "Midtown"!

That's Montrose, Upper Kirby and Greenway. That's three neighborhoods for the price of one. Houston: Bargain City. (Should've submitted that to the slogan contest.

[AtticaFlinch]

ATL was developed by intelligent design not by evolution and unregulated land development.

Biological evolution's trigger, Natural Selection, gave us opposable thumbs and a gigantic brain giving us the ability to build such things as cities. Then again, it also gave us mosquitoes and manatees. This organic natural growth can either bring greatness, pure crap or useless oddities. Only time will tell. Natural selection took a billion years to bring basic one-celled life to the level of humanity whereas intelligent design says the entire thing occurred in 6000 years. Let's just be patient and Houston will blossom on its own, in its own time.

[kdog08]

Hey guys I browse this site weekly however this is my first ever post! When I lived in Houston's Post Midtown Square 8-9 years ago I prayed that "Midtown" would eventually get developed into this true urban oasis that many Haif'ers (like myself) crave, but when I would come back to visit 2-3 times a year I would notice that "Midtown" was at best slow to develop and half of the new development was disappointing to say the least (i.e. both new suburban style CVS stores).

I live in Midtown Atlanta right in the mix of everything and would always wonder why Houston's "Midtown" couldn't get their act together. My neighborhood is vibrant, eclectic, and walkable with numerous newly developed and older highrise and midrise condos above retail.

I wouldn't exactly call Midtown ATL an urban oasis. It has poorly developed street grid with above average connectivity but great modern buildings and architecture. It reminds of Victory Park in Dallas, caters specifically to the upper class hip professional demographics.

[kdog08]

Didn't see another thread regarding this, but there is an almost complete building the next block up of Camden Travis. It looks like one of those executive suite hotels, it takes up between 1/2-1/4 of the block and is about 4-5 stories tall. Looked like the exterior had a good deal of it completed.

[Jax]

Yeah I noticed the building under construction next door and I was surprised nobody had mentioned it on here yet. If you drive west on McGowan to Milam the construction you're talking about is on the right, isn't it?

[kylejack]

That's condos, I can't remember the name of it...something tower maybe?

[kdog08]

Yeah I noticed the building under construction next door and I was surprised nobody had mentioned it on here yet. If you drive west on McGowan to Milam the construction you're talking about is on the right, isn't it?

The one I am talking about seems to be facing Travis but we may be talking about the same building. Like I said, it was facing Travis close to the intersection of Hadley.

[ChannelTwoNews]

The one I am talking about seems to be facing Travis but we may be talking about the same building. Like I said, it was facing Travis close to the intersection of Hadley.

Travis Lofts?

[kylejack]

Yep, I kept thinking Travis Tower, but that's downtown, haha.

[kdog08]

Travis Lofts?

Man I just don't know anymore. According to this map from the above link Map, it should be about where the parking structure was. Again, the structure looked like a small executive suite style hotel complex, about 4-5 stories. Maybe they were doing some work on part of the Travis Loft building which made it seem like an almost completed building or maybe I am getting my location wrong but I saw this from the restaurant Reef.

[DrLan34]

Man I just don't know anymore. According to this map from the above link Map, it should be about where the parking structure was. Again, the structure looked like a small executive suite style hotel complex, about 4-5 stories. Maybe they were doing some work on part of the Travis Loft building which made it seem like an almost completed building or maybe I am getting my location wrong but I saw this from the restaurant Reef.

The condos are on the small lot between the Camden Midtown parking garage and the big Chrysler lot where they park all of their cars that are for sale. They are a small set of condos different than Camden Travis. I always see them when I walk down McGowen towards the train.

They have some really good balconies facing downtown too.

[kdog08]

The condos are on the small lot between the Camden Midtown parking garage and the big Chrysler lot where they park all of their cars that are for sale. They are a small set of condos different than Camden Travis. I always see them when I walk down McGowen towards the train.

They have some really good balconies facing downtown too.

Ah the mystery is solved. Thanks.