Memories Of Third Ward

[musicman]

Better housing ... ? I guess that is in the eye of the beholder... Cause seems like a lot of folks (you know .. .the 'uppies' that start with G, B, Y, etc.) want those same houses and neighborhoods that you are inferring are substandard. They want them because they are close to town and all the amenities that city living affords. They are willing to take the risk on a 'bad' neighborhood because they know that in 3 - 5 years, their investment will have easily doubled once the neighborhood takes off.

HMBRO, most buyers are only going to look at the surface of a home i.e. it has to look good. this alone means most won't consider many older neighborhoods. why would they buy something that they have to fix up when they can move in as is? for some it is neighborhood, for others it is finding a good solid house that needs some work. i don't think the houses are substandard, in fact they are probably better than anything new and just need some TLC which many don't want the hastle of doing.

On a similar note, I was telling a co worker that I was looking at a house in the city and named the areas. She is a realtor (not mine) and asked what my price range is. I told her and she stated emphatically "Why would you want to live there!! You could buy a big spread out in Atascocita or somewhere....") The implication is that if I spend 'that kinda money' (which honestly is NOT a lot) I could have a better quality of life elsewhere.

But I have been trying to ESCAPE the suburbs ... not get more entrenched in them. I like urban living and being closer to things that I find attractive (cultural institutions, downtown, 3rd Ward, the universities, etc.).

Am I a moron for not wanting to live in the bland suburbs?

you have to do what is right for YOU, not anyone else. if you want to live in 3rd ward, do it. just prepare a budget so that you can do some of the work yourself which will save you big bucks!

[Vertigo58]

This why I urged everyone (in another thread) to take a slow drive down Wheeler towards TSU and be fascinated by the beautiful one of a kind homes that grace this boulevard. Each one is a jewel in its own. Most are high up on a slightly steep embankment that props the homes almost pedestal like. There is no other in Houston I know that can equal this area. Majority in the Wheeler area are brick and made to last. Please take a cruise to the area soon. Need pics!

[houstonmacbro]

you have to do what is right for YOU, not anyone else. if you want to live in 3rd ward, do it. just prepare a budget so that you can do some of the work yourself which will save you big bucks!

Thanks for that vote of confidence!

I also want to apologize to my suburban peers for using the word 'bland'. That is my definition and probably my prejudice, not THE definition or end-all-be-all of the term.

I have seen some pretty 'bland' neighborhoods (not to mention some of the MacMansion types) being erected in-town as well.

Nah, the -uppies (and the investors/developers that cater to them) want the land for the reasons that you cited, but most of the housing is beyond worthless--it is viewed as a liability that must be removed. And these same -uppies tend not to have children, so crappy schools just aren't even an issue.

I get that all the time when I tell people that I'm investing in East End real estate. They can't figure out what's in it. I've even dealt with banks that simply refuse to lend on anything in that neighborhood.

We aren't crazy or morons, but we do represent a pretty small minority of such people, that much is certain.

No, white toward black. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

No problem. I was just trying to understand.

[Deut28Thirteen]

I find that an odd thought. That blacks CAUSED whites to move out, but whatever...

I also find that hard to believe too. Blacks did not cause white flight it was racism. They were not coming in and tacking down their buildings just adding there own. I guss they were thinking "Here comes the Blacks, There goes the neighborhood". Thank God that has changed, Houston on of the top cities for blacks, seems like a city thats one of the best for blacks to live in would try to keep more of there History or does that not matter either?

http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/black-enterpri...ies-for-blacks/

[millennica]

In addition to what you stated, you also have to realize that home ownership in these neighborhoods (owner-occupied) is very low. Many of these houses are rented. Many of them have never been owned by local residents.

This is not entirely true. In the 50s and 60s the University of Pennsylvania (PENN) was not as large as it was today and was essentially bounded by the West Philadelphia community (36th Street) which had a large African American population. PENN wanted to expand but was land locked. PENN threatned to move to the suburbs unless it could expand. Because it was one of the largest employers in the City of Philadelphia and it didn't want to lose PENN to the suburbs, the City declared the areas immediately next to PENN suburbs and proposed an urban redevelopment project. The result was that houses were demolished (not all rented, but many also owned) and PENN was allowed to expand buildingthe dormitories other university building, and create parking lots. When I joined the PENN faculty in the late 1980s I met many African Americans who pointed to dormitories, buildings or parking lots and note that they had once lived (and their parents owned) a house in that neighborhood. Remember in West Philadelphia many of the houses are not single family houses, but row houses (that were built for working class families) and twins (that were built for more middle class families) and many people owned them.

While there were renters in Boston's South End, there were also large numbers of homeowners who having relocated from the Beacon Hill's Northside (the original settlement of Boston's African American community) to the South End, which was close to the downtown, and not far from South Station, the main hub for the railroad, which was a major employer for African American men who worked as Pullman Porters, cooks, and waiters. As in Philadelphia were the main housing stock was not single family houses, the housing in Boston's South End were attached brownstowns. Many of the African American families who owned the South End brownstowns took in boarders or rented out rooms to be able to pay the rent and by the time the city decided that the area was ripe for urban renewal, many of the houses were in need of serious repair. When the South End was undergoing urban renewal, some African American families sold quickly and moved to Mattapan, which was also facilitated because of a program Boston Bank Urban Renewal Group (BBURG) that sought to relocate African American families to this neighborhood. But there were many African American families that didn't want to move. A good number of them moved because as the property was improved, taxes were raised and many of these families especially those who had lived there a long time and were on a fixed income couldn't afford the taxes. One family in particular that refused to move even when all of the houses around the were being demolished to build a parking lot for the developing Prudential Center area which is very close to the South End. In order to protect their brownstown from the cranes, the family had placed old mattresses on their house to save it from accidentally being demolished. In the end, the parking lot was constructed around this brownstone which stood alone and was fenced in to demarcate it from the parking lot. Eventually, people moved, but for a long time the house stood there as a symbol of defiance of the destruction of this part of the neighborhood which demolished houses in order to create a parking lot.

fwiw, the Lance Freeman article is in volume 40, number 4 of Urban Affairs Review (March 2005, page 463)

the title is "Displacement or Succession?: Residential Mobility in Gentrifying Neighborhoods"

Thanks for the citation. I'm going to the library next week to find this.

[TheNiche]

I also find that hard to believe too. Blacks did not cause white flight it was racism. They were not coming in and tacking down their buildings just adding there own. I guss they were thinking "Here comes the Blacks, There goes the neighborhood". Thank God that has changed, Houston on of the top cities for blacks, seems like a city thats one of the best for blacks to live in would try to keep more of there History or does that not matter either?

http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/black-enterpri...ies-for-blacks/

If there had just been a bunch of racists in a static neighborhood, then there wouldn't have been white flight. But neighborhoods aren't static--they are dynamic. And when blacks started moving in, white folks started moving out. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to excuse it or apologize for it or any such thing, but as an objective observation, that's what happened.

[Guest danax]

I also find that hard to believe too. Blacks did not cause white flight it was racism. http://hiphop.popcrunch.com/black-enterpri...ies-for-blacks/

And mixed into any pure racist sentiments were fears of lower property values due to increased crime, lower school performance and less beauty/more poverty, all of which, unfortunately, turned out to be valid fears, and are, to perhaps a lesser decree, still valid in most cities.

[TheNiche]

And mixed into any pure racist sentiments were fears of lower property values due to increased crime, lower school performance and less beauty/more poverty, all of which, unfortunately, turned out to be valid fears, and are, to perhaps a lesser decree, still valid in most cities.

Concur. Like most hot-button race-related issues, the full story tends to be a more complicated issue than it would appear on the surface. For instance, it wouldn't be fair to say that everyone that took part in white flight are racists. But even if a third of them were, that minority's actions would have such a dramatic downward effect on the property values that you could hardly blame the other two thirds for bailing out while they could get a decent price. ...and then, only once the property values hit bottom, does the area actually become a slum, with all the crime, poor schools, more poverty, etc. because it is only at that point that poor blacks can afford to locate there.

[spikey2]

The area of 3RD ward near Scott and 45 seems to be heating up.

Across from Dotson Elem an entire neighborhood seems to have been emptied and boarded up.

There is a nice recently built home on Napoleon near Mcgowen sitting on a treed double lot off 45. More new homes can be found on nearly every street in the area. Homes and buildings along Mcgowen are being torned down or remodeled and put up for sale all the way from Scott up to Dowling. Is this the new boon area for the new near town crowd?

[musicman]

The area of 3RD ward near Scott and 45 seems to be heating up.

Across from Dotson Elem an entire neighborhood seems to have been emptied and boarded up.

There is a nice recently built home on Napoleon near Mcgowen sitting on a treed double lot off 45. More new homes can be found on nearly every street in the area. Homes and buildings along Mcgowen are being torned down or remodeled and put up for sale all the way from Scott up to Dowling. Is this the new boon area for the new near town crowd?

wondering about that myself. you can see the action from the elevated portion of the downtown exit. some very classic homes.

[spikey2]

The area of Third Ward bound by 288 to the west, Cullen to the east, Holman to the south and 45 to the north seems to be slowly coming back to life. I took a drive through the area on Sunday, along streets I had not dared travel down for a long time. I was surprised to see how much the area is coming back alive with new single family homes,town homes, condos and renovated older homes. Still plagued with a few streets of "corner people". I get the feeling that within the next 1 to 2 years that all those vacant lots will be filled with new homes of varying types. The racial mix is also changing in the area, Black , Hispanic and White and only a few of those "Third Ward is my home" signs unlike the area south of Holman. Do anyone else share my opion of this area?

[VicMan]

What you are describing is inevitable... the Third Ward is becoming gentrified because it is near Downtown, UH (Well, UH is in the 3rd Ward), AND the Texas Medical Center.

[Vertigo58]

See Emancipation Park topic. Pretty much same comments. Your right in some areas like St Emanuel street area it was for the best. Every other day when I drive past I see more of the ravaged run down beyound-repair homes vanish. Honestly, theres no telling how many of these went without the taxes being paid so owners lost them. Maybe the park itself will be revitalized, it is in such a fantastic site with DT as backdrop.

[hbcu]

I'm asking as I was told that was a very nice area from Palm Canter all the way to Bellfort/Crestmont/Telephone Road..

South Park...

FROM MCGREGOR PARK TO 610

-------------------------------------

I know Palm Center was a mall and the Montgomery Ward on Griggs did well at a time along with Kips...what the trading fair flea market on 610 always that?

FROM 610 TO MYKAWA

---------------------------------

but what about the area outside the loop near Van Fleet? I remember a K-Mart Building but across the street is a huge plot of land that sat vacant where weeds took over.....what was there? I know of a Rice Foods/Weingarten further down Bellfort but that building turned into a parking lot and the Kippermann's..what was out there?

Across Mykawa

------------------------

My family members eventually settled across Mykawa on bellfort and that area was nice as I remember another Rice, the Yum Yum Pit, some place where a Train was in front, baskin robins in the woods (death trap), etc. The apartments are still there too...did I miss something?

eventually the area down telephone began to emerge as Gulf Meadows opened and became the area where folks from Crestmont moved and evevntually all the way to the Beltway and now Pearland...

Here's what I'm asking.....if the area was so nice and the demographics showed as Jones, Sterling, etc. were majority white then...what exactly happened to cause the mass exodus of individuals eventually back to Pearland?

Sunnyside was always black so was it a case of Sunnyside or 3rd ward spilling into South Park, Crestmont, etc. and folks just let it go or what?

[ricco67]

I don't know, but the characters that lived there always seemed fairly questionable.

although, Kenny did provide some entertainment.

Cartman is just annoying, but ignore him and he'll leave you alone.

[musicman]

white flight.

[PuroAztlan]

I'm asking as I was told that was a very nice area from Palm Canter all the way to Bellfort/Crestmont/Telephone Road.. FROM MCGREGOR PARK TO 610 ------------------------------------- I know Palm Center was a mall and the Montgomery Ward on Griggs did well at a time along with Kips...what the trading fair flea market on 610 always that? FROM 610 TO MYKAWA --------------------------------- but what about the area outside the loop near Van Fleet? I remember a K-Mart Building but across the street is a huge plot of land that sat vacant where weeds took over.....what was there? I know of a Rice Foods/Weingarten further down Bellfort but that building turned into a parking lot and the Kippermann's..what was out there? Across Mykawa ------------------------ My family members eventually settled across Mykawa on bellfort and that area was nice as I remember another Rice, the Yum Yum Pit, some place where a Train was in front, baskin robins in the woods (death trap), etc. The apartments are still there too...did I miss something? eventually the area down telephone began to emerge as Gulf Meadows opened and became the area where folks from Crestmont moved and evevntually all the way to the Beltway and now Pearland... Here's what I'm asking.....if the area was so nice and the demographics showed as Jones, Sterling, etc. were majority white then...what exactly happened to cause the mass exodus of individuals eventually back to Pearland? Sunnyside was always black so was it a case of Sunnyside or 3rd ward spilling into South Park, Crestmont, etc. and folks just let it go or what?

Ban for racism.

[FilioScotia]

Ban for racism.

South Park was a victim of white flight. It was a very nice all-white surburban neighborhood when it was built right after WWII. Note all the streets named for WWII heroes and battles. The developers were targeting returning war veterans, and in the late 40s and early 50s, those homes were definitely "upscale". The GI Bill made it possible for those guys to buy homes they could never afford before the war. The builder couldn't build them fast enough.

Then in the late 50s and early 60s black families started moving in, and white families moved out. By the mid 70s, South Park was predominantly black, and I guess it's just about 100 percent black by now.

That's how it happened. The whites didn't have to leave, but they did.

Palm Center wasn't a mall. It was an open air shopping center, and in its hey-day it was the nicest center in town. Even nicer than Gulfgate. It was surrounded by palm trees.

That whole stretch of Griggs, OST and South Park was very scenic, but like the neighborhood around it, it also went down and I believe it was just about all closed and boarded up by the late 80s.

Such a shame. For everybody.

[VicMan]

Also segregation was the reason why Jones AND Worthing exist today.

Worthing was for African-American students.

Jones was for White students. I believe Sterling was for White students too.

Nowadays all three schools are underpopulated.

* Jones - http://www.schooldigger.com/go/TX/schools/...503/school.aspx

* Sterling - http://www.schooldigger.com/go/TX/schools/...592/school.aspx

* Worthing - http://www.schooldigger.com/go/TX/schools/...619/school.aspx

HISD profiles (I notice a LOT of population figures at the high schools are down, so I'm not sure if the data is the most accurate. But this is what I have):

* Jones: 895 - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Jones_HS.pdf

* Sterling: 1,109 - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Sterling_HS.pdf

* Worthing: 1,026 - http://dept.houstonisd.org/profiles/Worthing_HS.pdf

IMO Jones should be eliminated somehow. But how should HISD do this? What should HISD do with Jones's building?

I think HISD turn Jones into a vocational school operated in tandem with HCC. All of the extra rooms and facilities may be used to house various types of equipment so that all different types of vocational careers may be practiced. Also perhaps students will not have to go all the way to Barbara Jordan for a vocational school.

South Park was a victim of white flight. It was a very nice all-white surburban neighborhood when it was built right after WWII. Note all the streets named for WWII heroes and battles. The developers were targeting returning war veterans, and in the late 40s and early 50s, those homes were definitely "upscale". The GI Bill made it possible for those guys to buy homes they could never afford before the war. The builder couldn't build them fast enough.

Then in the late 50s and early 60s black families started moving in, and white families moved out. By the mid 70s, South Park was predominantly black, and I guess it's just about 100 percent black by now.

That's how it happened. The whites didn't have to leave, but they did.

Palm Center wasn't a mall. It was an open air shopping center, and in its hey-day it was the nicest center in town. Even nicer than Gulfgate. It was surrounded by palm trees.

That whole stretch of Griggs, OST and South Park was very scenic, but like the neighborhood around it, it also went down and I believe it was just about all closed and boarded up by the late 80s.

Such a shame. For everybody.

[Anjie0301]

My parents still live there and I grew up there. They told me that they bought the house in 1972 after living in 3rd ward for a few years. My dad's a local musician and they met up somewhere along the way....whole 'nother story.

Our backyard is the Palm Center.

Palm Center is now home to the Young branch library which used to be located at the opposite end of my street. I'd go there a lot back in the mid 80's just to read books and do my homework. There's also a post office sub station and a Harris County annex. I was just there not too long ago getting my license sticker renewed.

From what I recall, my mom told me that yes, they did buy the house from a white lady and that the area was all white at one time. I remember riding my bike down the street when I was a kid. I'd stop by certain houses to chat with the neighbors, some of which were white. Then again, I'd stop anywhere there was candy and pets involved lol . My street and I'm sure most of the others is now mostly black and latino.

Back when I started elementary school (Hartsfield), Palm center was pretty nice. We'd just walk to the block behind the house and there it was. Lewis and Coker grociery store, JC Penney, Woolworth, Fava Shoes, Lenas Tots and Teens (sp?) etc. ............then somewhere during the early to mid 80's it started to go downhill. Stores closed and the Lewis and Coker turned into a roller skating rink that attracted a few rough kids. ......Montgomery Ward across the street closed and remained vacant until about 1990. That's when Kings Best (flea) Market took over.

Back in the late 70's and early to mid 80's, I remember a U-Totem at the corner of my street and (the now) MLK blvd. There was also a Baskin and Robbin's ice cream there. Fond memories. ...and right next to that, where the new gas station is, there used to be a Jack in the Box!

Close to 610 and MLK was a McDonalds. I begged and begged for some kind of delux happy meal with a train set in it. I recall my parents lying to me by telling me that the railroad track next to that McDonalds was the real McDonaldland train and that it was much better than the one in the meal . Whatever.

I don't remember much about the part of South Park beyoned 610 because when I was growing up, most of my time was spent in the backyard or riding around town with my dad to gigs.

I DO recall my godmother and her husband living on Southlea street which is located a bit past the 610 loop. Also off of Reed Road in between MLK and Cullen was a nightclub called Spillers Nightclub which was named after the ower, a friend of my dad. I'm sure it had been around since the early 70's. Yep, I tagged along with my dad there too lol. My dad would play the big old hammond B3 organ and I'd run around getting into trouble.

Once I get a better scanner, I'll come back and start another thread with pics of my dad and mom back in the clubs in 3rd ward etc. Cool stuff.

Take care!

anj.

[Anjie0301]

I'm sorry that I don't have any insight on the area prior to my childhood. I was born in '73 and word of mouth is what I have to go by.

I DID find something pretty interesting at the top of our garage. Two 'antique' license plates from the late 40's! I guess they previous owners forgot to take them down when they moved.

What I'd love to see is a photo of this area before any houses were built.....ie, photo's of the land circa 1940.

According to HCAD, all the houses here were built between 1950 and 1955. My parent's house was built in 1950 and so was every house on our street.

[hbcu]

the crazy part it seems like white flight will never stop...what will it take as every neighborhood they built turns which creates a newer area miles away that changes and so on...HISD skirted around integration as folks will tell you they used mexicans to pass as whites at that time...

pound for pound, South Park has some of tbe best access to downtown and mysteriously, they are sneaking in there with townhomes...the complex off MLK shocked me...

anyone has pictures or anything?

[The Drake]

Yeah, I've always wondered what this neighborhood looked like back in the day.

When i moved here in 1995 (i was about 3 years old) ,there used to be a library that stood about 30-40 feet, a parking lot with a visible foundation and a lot of trees where Concord/Sky View apartments are now. There are apartments called "Royal Palm" and I was wondering, where they always this bad? There's an old sign near there that says "Mexican Restaurant" with a red arrow. Looks cool.

Thanks so much. I'm trying to dig up information about the ongoings in this neighborhood, historically of course.

[FilioScotia]

There was a lengthy discussion of the old South Park and Griggs Rd area here on HAIF back in 2005.

Nobody had any old photos to share, but there are plenty of memories and lots of information.

Here's a link to it. http://www.houstonar...40-palm-center/

[Anj]

Hehe, I still live here. I only have photos of me and a few of my backyard from the 70's and 80's. I used to go to the Young Branch library when I was a kid. It was on Beekman. It's now in the Palm Center business complex, which used to be a pretty nice shopping center. : )

...and yes, I'm almost 20 years older than you, the Royal Palms apartments have always been bad lol. I asked my mom is she remembered anything about that Mexican restaurant and she said that it was called Loma Linda. Even I don't remember it.

Did you know that Kings Flea Market used to be a store called Montgomery Wards? Yep, it's true. : ) What do you think of the new light rail over here?

[brucesw]

According to Robb Walsh's Tex-Mex Cookbook, Loma Linda opened in 1956 and the original location was on Telephone Rd. That location is still in business as Fiesta Loma Linda and a reviewer on Yelp says the Palm Center location was actually the original.

Pic taken in 2008.

[The Drake]

Hehe, I still live here. I only have photos of me and a few of my backyard from the 70's and 80's. I used to go to the Young Branch library when I was a kid. It was on Beekman. It's now in the Palm Center business complex, which used to be a pretty nice shopping center. : )

...and yes, I'm almost 20 years older than you, the Royal Palms apartments have always been bad lol. I asked my mom is she remembered anything about that Mexican restaurant and she said that it was called Loma Linda. Even I don't remember it.

Did you know that Kings Flea Market used to be a store called Montgomery Wards? Yep, it's true. : ) What do you think of the new light rail over here?

I love Young Branch. I used to go there every day for 4 years to read beginner books to learn to read! Most of the librarians know me and I think that's like the best feeling, when you walk into a businnes and the owners/employees welcome you with your name!

Yes, I read about the old Montgomery Ward. I wish I knew what the WHOLE neighborhood looked like and what businesses were there at the time. Before the Exxon was built on MLK and Browncroft, there was, again and empty lot with a visible foundation.

Now about the rail line. I'll have to wait and see how things work out. The park that was built 3-4 years ago on Beekman is very close to the rails, maybe the city will enclose the park.

[little frau]

Did you get to check out the link provided in post #2 here on this thread?

There's 2-3 pages devoted to old memories of Palm Center.

Give it a look, but keep in mind that the posts were made over 5 years ago so some places have no doubt changed since that time.

[The Drake]

Did you get to check out the link provided in post #2 here on this thread?

There's 2-3 pages devoted to old memories of Palm Center.

Give it a look, but keep in mind that the posts were made over 5 years ago so some places have no doubt changed since that time.

Yes I did.

I don't think much has changed since then, aside from the new park being built and the constable area being fenced.

[Anj]

Drake, you mentioned the Exxon. When I was a little girl, there used to be a Jack in the Box there and we'd walk to it sometimes. Those shops next to it used to have a U-Totem convienence store and a Baskin and Robbins Ice Cream : ) The U-Totems are no longer in business as far as I know, but they were a bit like 7-11's. It was similar to what's there now, but it was nicer. That Jack in the Box was torn down sometime in the mid 80's and the lot stayed vacant until the Exxon arrived some years ago.

Did you know that they are going to build a Harris County library in that vacant lot on the corner of Griggs and MLK? I heard about it on the radio. I've only been to one county library and it was the one past the east beltway.