texas votes red ... again.

[RedScare]

Yes, Yes, I know this quote, but I think it IS debatable about where the seperation ends and begins. Pledge of allegiance for example.

Teachers making part of the curriculum to see what its like to be a Muslim for a day ? What do you think the spill over would be if Muslim children were forced to be a Christian for a day ?

I don't agree with all of what Perry stands for. but Jesus isn't all Perry stands for either. If you close your mind to a candidate because he is a little more religious, ok....... alot more religious than you seem to be, then you close yourself off to a bigger picture.

I don't oppose Perry for claiming to be religious. I oppose him for trying to force his religion on me.

BTW, love your use of the pledge as your example. It was written 100 years ago by an atheist...without "under God". "Under God" was added in the 1950s, at the height of the RED SCARE!

"Under God" was a blatant injection of religion into the pledge, specifically to show the contrast of "Christian America" to the "godless communists" of the Soviet Union. What I find amusing about the pledge and "In God We Trust" on the currency, is that it completely trivializes God and religion. In fact, that is why is it allowed to stay...because it is so overused as to have no connection to religion whatsoever. Like drug rehab, when religion is forced on the unwilling, it loses all intended effect.

[musicman]

wow, personal questions, and in a discussion about someone else (who is in public office). and after bringing up the "bigger picture."

sheesh!

well we have to figure out how and if those wheels are turnin!

[westguy]

Just wait until it comes out that Perry has been having a gay affair with someone in his administration. It's always the ones who are the loudest.

[TJones]

I don't oppose Perry for claiming to be religious. I oppose him for trying to force his religion on me.

BTW, love your use of the pledge as your example. It was written 100 years ago by an atheist...without "under God". "Under God" was added in the 1950s, at the height of the RED SCARE!

"Under God" was a blatant injection of religion into the pledge, specifically to show the contrast of "Christian America" to the "godless communists" of the Soviet Union. What I find amusing about the pledge and "In God We Trust" on the currency, is that it completely trivializes God and religion. In fact, that is why is it allowed to stay...because it is so overused as to have no connection to religion whatsoever. Like drug rehab, when religion is forced on the unwilling, it loses all intended effect.

While you believe it "trivializes" what the majority of Americans believe, I understand it is just your opinion that it "trivializes" it, for you, because of your beliefs.

Was issue taken to the addition to the pledge in the 50's ?

[RedScare]

While you believe it "trivializes" what the majority of Americans believe, I understand it is just your opinion that it "trivializes" it, for you, because of your beliefs.

Was issue taken to the addition to the pledge in the 50's ?

It also happens to be what the Supreme Court believes.

I might also point out that a majority of Americans believed in "separate but equal" as well.

[sevfiv]

Was issue taken to the addition to the pledge in the 50's ?

1954 - knights of columbus:

http://www.kofc.org/rc/en/about/activities...eAllegiance.pdf

[TJones]

1954 - knights of columbus:

http://www.kofc.org/rc/en/about/activities...eAllegiance.pdf

So, there was no issue by any agnostics or atheistists back in the 50's. Interesting. Did the KofCs have THAT much influence back then ? Sounds a bit Mobbish to me. I think it probably all boils down to that the ones in power were KofCs themselves or Kiwanas, or Shriners, or American Legionares.

[sevfiv]

So, there was no issue by any agnostics or atheistists back in the 50's. Interesting. Did the KofCs have THAT much influence back then ? Sounds a bit Mobbish to me. I think it probably all boils down to that the ones in power were KofCs themselves or Kiwanas, or Shriners, or American Legionares.

crap, i misread your post...i can't find any issues brought forth back then (but there must have been!)

there has been some recently, however

for example:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/14/scotus.pledge/

[Parrothead]

TJones, mark my words, the GOP is grooming him for something bigger. Keep in mind the GOP may want him as a candidate that will lose.

[musicman]

I might also point out that a majority of Americans believed in "separate but equal" as well.

i personally like having my own bathroom.

[DJ V Lawrence]

The way I see it, a majority of Texans did not want Rick Perry as governor. I thought he would have gotten at least 50% of the vote, but he still knew how to run a good campaign and make a lot of money. Unfortunately, the vote proves that running for office may be all that Perry's capable of doing. Let's hope he proves that wrong.

[nmainguy]

Perry, was bred to be a politician, he has that education, he knows how the "business" of Texas works. I don't want him runnin' the country though, I don't think he has foreign policy diplomacy

You mean like this guy?

[TJones]

You mean like this guy?

That man is a GREAT AMERICAN !

The way I see it, a majority of Texans did not want Rick Perry as governor. I thought he would have gotten at least 50% of the vote, but he still knew how to run a good campaign and make a lot of money. Unfortunately, the vote proves that running for office may be all that Perry's capable of doing. Let's hope he proves that wrong.

You can thank Strayhorn for messing things up for you. Strayhorn got the female vote, Kinky got the pothead vote. Not that there is anything WRONG with being a pothead.

[RedScare]

That man is a GREAT AMERICAN !

That would explain your views on a lot of things.

[Parrothead]

I don't oppose Perry for claiming to be religious. I oppose him for trying to force his religion on me.

I love this sentiment from atheists and agnostics. It cracks me up. Nobody is FORCING you to do anything! Don't want to say "under God"? It's quite simple--DON'T! The real "seperation of church and state" means that YOU won't go to jail for it!

You can thank Strayhorn for messing things up for you. Strayhorn got the female vote, Kinky got the pothead vote. Not that there is anything WRONG with being a pothead.

Um, or anything wrong with being a woman, I hope?

[RedScare]

I love this sentiment from atheists and agnostics. It cracks me up. Nobody is FORCING you to do anything! Don't want to say "under God"? It's quite simple--DON'T! The real "seperation of church and state" means that YOU won't go to jail for it!

Almost as much as I love the sentiments of christians who wish to discard the hard fought freedoms granted to us in the Constitution, for a theocratic state.

BTW, nice explanation of the Establishment Clause. What Constitutional scholars have spent 200 years studying, you summed up in one sentence. Too bad it is incorrect.

Oh, and I don't worship flags. I don't say "under god", nor any of the rest of it. I kind of like the Jolly Roger, though.

[Parrothead]

It is NOT incorrect, RedScare. The Amendment pertaining to Seperation of Church and State was to protect people from being executed or jailed for not practicing a state-sponsored faith. It gives freedom of religion to everyone in this country.

I'm sorry, but that's just EXACTLY what it was for.

BTW, we ALREADY have a theocratic state--it's a religion called "secularism", and it's the most dangerous one of all.

*edited to add* The Northwest Ordinance, Article III

[RedScare]

It is NOT incorrect, RedScare. Seperation of Church and State was to protect people from being executed or jailed for not practicing a state-sponsored faith. It gives freedom of religion to everyone in this country.

I'm sorry, but that's just EXACTLY what it was for.

BTW, we ALREADY have a theocratic state--it's a religion called "secularism", and it's the most dangerous one of all.

Part of me says to leave this alone, but the mischievous me says to ask. So, DO tell. Just what IS the religion of "secularism", and why is it the most dangerous one of all?

Forgive me for not knowing this most basic of Christian fundamentalist beliefs, but with all the drinking, fornicating and general secularity in my life, I just haven't been paying attention. I DO know that "secularism" is a bad word on the right. I just don't know why.

[nmainguy]

Well, Rumsfeld is out, Tester is in, Allen is still lurking and the Pelosi haters are clueless as to the First Amendment which does not include the words "Seperation of Church and State"

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

In addition we do not have a theocratic state and secularism is not a religion. It is quite the opposite.

I would suggest spending less time on illogical hatred of our new Speaker of the House and making things up out of thin air and a little more time with the books.

[Parrothead]

Red Scare, when you can lose the smug attitude, and be more respectful of people who disagree with you, I would be absolutely happy to talk to you more about it, and answer your questions, if you really are interested.

[Mark F. Barnes]

Red I told you about that smug crap, now you're in timeout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ROTFLMAO

[Parrothead]

Well, Rumsfeld is out, Tester is in, Allen is still lurking and the Pelosi haters are clueless as to the First Amendment which does not include the words "Seperation of Church and State"

You are right nmainguy--it does not. Personally speaking, I never said it did. I said it PERTAINS to it. So which Pelosi hater are you referring to?

In addition we do not have a theocratic state and secularism is not a religion. It is quite the opposite.

I would suggest spending less time on illogical hatred of our new Speaker of the House and making things up out of thin air and a little more time with the books.

As opposed to your picture and commentary several months ago of Vice President Dick Cheney?

What am I making up, nmainguy? Please be specific.

[sevfiv]

while perry may not be forcing anyone to ascribe to his personal beliefs (although, if he tries a shot at "legislating morailty," then we all may be in trouble), it is still downright rude to mouth off about people and their condemnation to hell (well, his condemnation of them).

especially someone in his political position

there are very important issues in texas that need to be addressed - i hope he can get his head out of his ass long enough to address them in a "people first" fashion

[RedScare]

Red I told you about that smug crap, now you're in timeout!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ROTFLMAO

Oops. My bad.

*RedScare sulks to his corner*

[nmainguy]

What am I making up, nmainguy? Please be specific.

You stated

we ALREADY have a theocratic state--it's a religion called "secularism",

Well, you either made it up or you are merely living up to your name. In any event there is not an ounce of truth in that statement.

As I've said before, your presence quarantees none of the rest of us will ever be the dumbest rock in the pile.

[DJ V Lawrence]

That man is a GREAT AMERICAN !

You can thank Strayhorn for messing things up for you. Strayhorn got the female vote, Kinky got the pothead vote. Not that there is anything WRONG with being a pothead.

The potheads were too high to make it to the polls, yo. Strayhorn didn't mess nothing up; she was just doing her job. Last time I checked, Strayhorn's a Republican. It was a win-win situation for her because if she were to lose, a fellow Republican would still have the Governor's office. Smart move.

In terms of Bell, he was assured of losing because it was a saturated playing field. He probably would have won if it was one-on-one. Kinky was probably a long-shot because of the same thing. Either way, Perry cowaring to only one govenor's debate and not even mentioning Kinky's name in his campaign ads worked. And U have to give Perry credit in the fact that his commercials were more about him than about slamming someone else, which is how it should be.

[Parrothead]

You stated

Well, you either made it up or you are merely living up to your name. In any event there is not an ounce of truth in that statement.

It was made tongue in cheek, but since you didn't get that...

As I've said before, your presence quarantees none of the rest of us will ever be the dumbest rock in the pile.

I don't think I'm that rock. But hey, thanks for being so sweet!

[webdude]

Its not a surprise with all the ____ and rubber stamping spending coming out of previous congress that americans voted the way they did, well, maybe except for texas, which did prove once again, to be a whole other country, impervious to ____ going on, or blind loyalty to those who sell themselves as god fearing men

[RedScare]

Its not a surprise with all the ____ and rubber stamping spending coming out of previous congress that americans voted the way they did, well, maybe except for texas, which did prove once again, to be a whole other country, impervious to ____ going on, or blind loyalty to those who sell themselves as god fearing men

Well...most of Texas. Dallas County elected a Democrat as DA, and 42 Democratic judges. JR Molina and Chris Bell won Dallas Co. as well. But, the suburbs and West Texas have coined a new phrase...Yellow Dog Republican.

EDIT: Correction, 41 of 42 judges, plus the county judge.

[TJones]

Oh, and I don't worship flags. I don't say "under god", nor any of the rest of it. I kind of like the Jolly Roger, though.

Ok, I'll say "under God" for both of us, and i will gladly fly the Jolly Roger with you. I would definately be considered a Pirate Conservative, as my stances on issues change with what I believe to be right, and NOT what my party affiliation tries to tell me what is.

The "seperation" comment started off as a joke, because Perry IS so religious, I don't back his, "You are gonna burn in Hell, if you don't get Jesus in your life !" mentality. I know what my faith is and how to do my own praying. I do back what the KofCs did to GIVE the pledge more meaning, not to "trivialize" it. That is just one of the divergences in the path that you and I walk on Red.