2727 Kirby: Condominium High-Rise At 2727 Kirby Dr.

[ricco67]

You know, I like skyscrapers and high-rises, but I just think all of the new high rise residential in Houston is just completely overpriced. In particular Mosaic. I understand the appeal and the views, etc., but it's hard for me to justify it as economical... price per sf. is just killer. And condos you have to factor in the maintenance fee -- for life. At least for the foreseeable future I'm priced out of anything like that.

I think midrises and well designed townhomes are great, though, and much more affordable. You don't loose too much density, really. the high rises are so skinny and have low FAR's per floor. I'd rather see European style blankets of 6 story buildings... build enough of them so that the construction talent is local and stays, bringing down costs even more. I like what I see with the current "mixed use" development plans -- the renderings for Regent Square, BLVD place, the other one on the old Ford Dealership, etc. I imagine most of Houston's arterial streets steetwalled with those some time in the future.

Who knows... high rises might get slaughtered by changes in the economy. High interest, higher raw materials prices, higher fuel costs, etc. A midrise with the same average density can be built much faster and more cheaply. I think once gas starts to peak and the ____ really hits the fan, it'll be the triumph of the midrise. Land prices in Houston really only support high rises as 'statements.' If you actually want to build housing for actual people.. midrise all the way.

/end rambling.

2727 is fantastically expensive anyway. and I think it's hideous.

As it was posted here a few weeks (months?) ago. The Demographic that this is aimed for is for those that have some serious disposable income. I currently have a client that just purchased one in there (I hope to be able to take pictures of the interior when he moves in) but he also has another home in the galleria and a modest townhome in the Montrose. Not to mention a home in Italy, England, Germany, Singapore, New York, Los Angeles, and a couple of other places I can't remember. He travels extensively and prefers hi-rises due to security issues. I have NO clue what he does for a living either.

the people in that demographic live in a totally different world than most of us can fathom. Believe me.

[bachanon]

3333 Allen Parkway is the Royalton @ River Oaks...

i guess i should have written "the royalton at 3333 allen parkway".

[lockmat]

If you actually want to build housing for actual people.. midrise all the way.

I'm actual people.

But it seems like the area for "actual people" will probably be the east end.

[TheNiche]

You know, I like skyscrapers and high-rises, but I just think all of the new high rise residential in Houston is just completely overpriced. In particular Mosaic. I understand the appeal and the views, etc., but it's hard for me to justify it as economical... price per sf. is just killer. And condos you have to factor in the maintenance fee -- for life. At least for the foreseeable future I'm priced out of anything like that.

I think midrises and well designed townhomes are great, though, and much more affordable. You don't loose too much density, really. the high rises are so skinny and have low FAR's per floor. I'd rather see European style blankets of 6 story buildings... build enough of them so that the construction talent is local and stays, bringing down costs even more. I like what I see with the current "mixed use" development plans -- the renderings for Regent Square, BLVD place, the other one on the old Ford Dealership, etc. I imagine most of Houston's arterial streets steetwalled with those some time in the future.

Who knows... high rises might get slaughtered by changes in the economy. High interest, higher raw materials prices, higher fuel costs, etc. A midrise with the same average density can be built much faster and more cheaply. I think once gas starts to peak and the ____ really hits the fan, it'll be the triumph of the midrise. Land prices in Houston really only support high rises as 'statements.' If you actually want to build housing for actual people.. midrise all the way.

/end rambling.

2727 is fantastically expensive anyway. and I think it's hideous.

While I will agree that the price and especially maintenance fees kill the feasibility of highrise living for most people, midrises aren't inexpensive either, unless you're talking about four-story stick construction.

Any factors that kill highrise construction would also put a serious damper on every other kind of housing; high fuel costs would actually bolster both midrise and highrise demand, especially if suburban families started moving back into the city, as perceived safety is highly-valued by such buyers. As for having local talent, we already do. It isn't exactly hard to come by.

2727 may be fantastically expensive, but there are more development proposals currently in the works that would trump even its high prices.

Lastly, people are "actual" no matter what their income level. I suppose that I myself am somehow an "illusion" because my preferences and ambitions are unlike your own? Or perhaps I just didn't exist until you first read a post of mine? Because nothing actually exists until you see it!

Edited April 29, 2007 by TheNiche

[musicman]

I'm actual people.

But it seems like the area for "actual people" will probably be the east end.

LOL...how far east are you talkin?

[lockmat]

LOL...how far east are you talkin?

Shoot, I don't know. I'm probably talkin out my butt. I don't know the incomes of people on HAIF, but it seems like a good amount live in that area. I guess I said that just b/c of the vibe I get from what people say here. Am I wrong? What kind of income classes live over there?

Lastly, people are "actual" no matter what their income level. I suppose that I myself am somehow an "illusion" because my preferences and ambitions are unlike your own? Or perhaps I just didn't exist until you first read a post of mine? Because nothing actually exists until you see it!

I'm sure he meant as I did; actual people as in middle income people, as in most of America.

[TheNiche]

Shoot, I don't know. I'm probably talkin out my butt. I don't know the incomes of people on HAIF, but it seems like a good amount live in that area. I guess I said that just b/c of the vibe I get from what people say here. Am I wrong? What kind of income classes live over there?

Census 2000 Household Income Map

I'm sure he meant as I did; actual people as in middle income people, as in most of America.

I'm sure, but as I aspire to be what he might consider an illusory person...well, I figured I'd call him out on it.

[lockmat]

Census 2000 Household Income Map

I'm sure, but as I aspire to be what he might consider an illusory person...well, I figured I'd call him out on it.

Thanks for the map, except I'll have to see it at work on Tuesday. I deleted Adobe and tried redownloading it, but my old laptop isn't installing it for some reason.

And yeah, you're the real deal...I think

[houstonfella]

woolie.... lots of us cannot afford these mega expensive highrises. However, it is great to live in a city where we have rich, not so rich but affluent, mid income and, unfortunately, lower income families. I will never live there, but will enjoy seeing 2727 from where I am in the city. Yeah, can you imagine the expense of a million dollar palace? I really can't, but I am blessed to have my 1800 sq ft "palace" and it belongs to me. So, let's build a 90 story highrise that we can see for miles... but not have to worry about the price.

[woolie]

woolie.... lots of us cannot afford these mega expensive highrises. However, it is great to live in a city where we have rich, not so rich but affluent, mid income and, unfortunately, lower income families. I will never live there, but will enjoy seeing 2727 from where I am in the city. Yeah, can you imagine the expense of a million dollar palace? I really can't, but I am blessed to have my 1800 sq ft "palace" and it belongs to me. So, let's build a 90 story highrise that we can see for miles... but not have to worry about the price.

I have nothing against the people who buy million dollar condos, it's just hard to see that life from my perspective. And we're both professionals. Maybe in 30 years we'll have so much money we won't blink at a $15k mortgage, but not now...

[txtrader]

I have nothing against the people who buy million dollar condos, it's just hard to see that life from my perspective. And we're both professionals. Maybe in 30 years we'll have so much money we won't blink at a $15k mortgage, but not now...

In 30 years with inflation 15k a month maybe the norm, and 2727 Kirby will be selling for $4000 per foot.

[HiRiseObserver]

It seems our self-proclaimed insiders may have failed us again. ;-)

Heh.

[houstonfella]

2727 Kirby

Here is the full story from HBJ. Interesting reading. Never underestimate the power of the wife.

Edited May 3, 2007 by houstonfella

[Pumapayam]

From the artcile.

Local developer Mike Atlas began construction last week on a 30-story condominium tower in the River Oaks area that will be the first high-rise residential property to be developed inside the 610 Loop in the past two decades.

That is such a lie, there is the one off Allen Parkway, and the more recent one in Herman Park.

Where are these people getting thier facts.

And I am sure there are more that I can't think of.

Atlas says he bought the property from Ashkenazy for $500,000 in early 2005, and proceeded on his own

That is pretty cheap for such a prime lot.

"My wife said, 'You're going to build this because I'm going to move into it,' " says Atlas, who designed the property with Houston's Ziegler Cooper Architects.

[Jamie Foxx]

She take my money, well I'm in need

Yeah she's a triflin friend indeed

Oh she's a gold digger way over time

That digs on me

[Chorus:]

(she steal me money)

Now I aint sayin she a gold digger (When I'm in need)

But she aint messin wit no broke niggas (She steal me money)

Now I aint sayin she a gold digger (When I'm in need)

but she aint messin wit no broke niggas(I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head

[Verse 1:]

[Jamie Foxx's Lyrics Repeated across verse]

Cutie the bomb

Met her at a beauty salon

With a baby Louis Vuitton

Under her under arm

She said I can tell you rock

I can tell by ya charm

Far as girls you got a flock

I can tell by ya charm and ya arm

but I'm lookin for the one

have you seen her

My psychic told me she'ya have a ass like Serena

Trina, Jennifer Lopez, four kids

An I gotta take all they bad ass to show-biz

Ok get ya kids but then they got they friends

I Pulled up in the Benz, they all got up in

We all went to dens and then I had to pay

If you ____in' with this girl then you betta be paid

You know why

Take too much to touch her

From what I heard she got a baby by Busta

My best friend say she use to ____ with Usher

I don't care what none of y'all say I still love her

[Chorus:]

(she steal me money)

Now I aint sayin she a gold digger (When I'm in need)

But she aint messin wit no broke niggas (she steal me money)

Now I aint sayin she a gold digger (When I'm in need)

but she aint messin wit no broke niggas (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head

[Verse 2:]

[Jamie Foxx Lyrics Repeated across verse]

18 years, 18 years

She got one of yo kids got you for 18 years

I know somebody payin child support for one of his kids

His baby momma car, crib is bigger than his

You will see him on TV Any Given Sunday

Win the Superbowl and drive off in a Hyundai

She was spose to buy ya shorty tyco with ya money yeah.

She went to the doctor got lipo with ya money

She walkin around lookin like Michael with ya money

Shoulda got that insured, GEICO for ya moneeey(your money)

If you aint no punk holla We Want Prenup

WE WANT PRENUP!, Yeaah

It's something that you need to have

Cause when she leave yo ass she gone leave with half

18 years, 18 years

And on the 18th birthday he found out it wasn't his

[Chorus:]

(she steal me money)

Now I aint sayin she a gold digger (When I'm in need)

But she aint messin wit no broke niggas (she steal me money)

Now I aint sayin she a gold digger (When I'm in need)

but she aint messin wit no broke niggas (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head get down (I gotta leave)

get down girl go head

Now I aint sayin you a gold digger you got needs

You don't want a dude to smoke but he can't buy weed

You go out to eat, can't pay y'all can't leave

There's dishes in the back, he gotta roll up his sleeves

But while y'all washin watch him

He gone make it to a Benz out of that Datsun

He got that ambition baby look in his eyes

(Jamie Foxx comes in)

This week he moppin floors next week it's the fries

So, stick by his side

I know his dude's ballin and yea thats nice

And they gone keep callin and tryin

But you stay right girl

But when you get on he leave yo ass for a white girl

Get down girl go head get down

Get down girl go head get down

get down girl go head get down

get down girl go head

[she take my money]

Let me hear that back

[strickn]

While I will agree that the price and especially maintenance fees kill the feasibility of highrise living for most people, midrises aren't inexpensive either, unless you're talking about four-story stick construction.

Any factors that kill highrise construction would also put a serious damper on every other kind of housing; high fuel costs would actually bolster both midrise and highrise demand, especially if suburban families started moving back into the city, as perceived safety is highly-valued by such buyers. As for having local talent, we already do. It isn't exactly hard to come by.

2727 may be fantastically expensive, but there are more development proposals currently in the works that would trump even its high prices.

Lastly, people are "actual" no matter what their income level. I suppose that I myself am somehow an "illusion" because my preferences and ambitions are unlike your own? Or perhaps I just didn't exist until you first read a post of mine? Because nothing actually exists until you see it!

To put an endcap on the income level bit of this project, perhaps no better word than 'actual' exists for getting at what was meant. People are flesh and blood, and we have to have food on the table; in the condition of someone who has such abundant posessions that "person Sam", when you get right down to it, would never have to do anything else to provide for bodily needs, even if he goes without worrying about finding employment for another single day in the rest of his life - there is something which appears like separation from incarnation in a significant way. By itself, it's perfectly reasonable to aspire to this sort of condition of stability in life, but it's not by itself at all. Unfortunately, we look to that evident safety without thinking as much about the just-as-'actual' harsh reality of brokenness, hardness and selfish rationalization in ourselves that we do regardless of comfort or material position.

One last thing: when steel prices are high, non-high-rise construction from single-families to "four storey stick construction" is not dampened, and maybe highrise projects plan more concrete structural elements; when steel and concrete are both soaring in price, high rises are dampened, and do you think that homebuilders hope to pour thinner slabs to get along?

[houston-development]

as i mentioned on another thread and has now been confirmed.

rest in peace, mike. you had a vision for houston and i hope others can fill your spirit.

link

Michael David Atlas

MICHAEL DAVID ATLAS, 52, our beloved husband father and son, passed away Friday, July 6th, 2007 . He was born in Houston, Texas January 22nd, 1955 and graduated from Memorial High School in 1973, then graduated in 1977 from University of Texas Business School. He loved the city of his birth and spent his life involved in projects aimed at improving Houston whether it was by making it more comfortable to live in or erecting a skyscraper of previously unmatched quality and beauty. From 1977 to 2000 Mike partnered with his brother Brian Smith Atlas at Atlas Air Conditioning Company. Under his leadership, the nationwide company became publicly traded on the NYSE in 1997. Moving on from mechanical contracting, Mike utilized his educational background in real estate appraisal and land development by becoming more involved in real estate, finding properties that intrigued him to purchase and renovate. As his interest increased, he took on more elaborate projects until recently realizing his dream of building a modernist skyscraper in the most sought after location in Houston at 2727 Kirby Drive. Mike was a loving and devoted husband and father, he is survived by his wife Sherri Gorme Atlas, his two daughters Robyn Nicole Atlas and Natalie Brooke Atlas and son Harrison Meyer Atlas. He is also survived by his mother Helene Allen Atlas, grandmother Faye Allen Tucker, mother-in-law Betty Ruth Gorme, brother Brian Smith Atlas and wife Cindy Freeman Atlas all of Houston; sisters Susan Atlas Bryson and husband Steven Bryson of Kailua, Hawaii, and Cyd Sheri Atlas Novak and husband Charles Novak of Atlanta, Georgia; father-in-law Frank Gorme of Poland; brothers-in-law Neil Gorme and wife Laura Gorme and Brian Gorme; sister-in-law Caryn Gorme all of Houston, and numerous nieces and nephews and a great niece. He was preceded in death by his father Sidney Forrest Atlas, grandfather Harry Allen, step grandfather Hank Tucker and his niece Amy Lee Atlas. He was an active member of Temple Emanu El his entire life. Mike served on the board of the Technion Institute and the Anti-Defamation League and was instrumental in the air conditioning of the Holocaust Museum when it was being built. Mike also dedicated time, support and energy to other causes such as Seven Acres and the Crossroads School where he was recently honored, a school for children with learning differences. He loved to travel all over the world from Alaska to the savannahs of Africa, and fishing was one of his lifelong passions. Michael's presence will be missed, both in his close extended family and in the professional community. His sense of humor, charisma and sweet nature are things for which he will surely be remembered as well as his uncanny business savvy and love of architecture. The service to celebrate Michael's life will be conducted at two o'clock in the afternoon on Tuesday, July 10th in the sanctuary of Temple Emanu El, 1500 Sunset Blvd in Houston. In lieu of flowers, donations may be made to Bo's Place, www.bosplace.org or the Building Expansion Fund of 2007 at Temple Emanu El.

[The Great Hizzy!]

R.I.P.

52 is way too young.

Edited July 9, 2007 by The Great Hizzy!

[Trae]

How did he pass, and what projects did he work with in Houston?

[bcnet]

How did he pass, and what projects did he work with in Houston?

I believe this was his first project as a developer. He was formally involved in construction with Atlas Air Conditioning, an HVAC contractor here in Houston that his father started many years ago. He and his brother sold the company to Comfort Systems USA in the late 90's and it is still around today as part of Comfort Systems USA.

Very sad indeed - my condolances go out to the Atlas family.

[HoustonRealtor]

Atlas redeveloped the Oak Lane Apartments at 2700 Revere. They are now Oak Lane Condominiums. The Oak Lane project was never as successful as he had hoped, so he never did Phase II (across the street at 2701 Revere). Phase I was first listed in April 2005 and had some units ready for sale by summer, but they still haven't sold them 2 years later.

I thought that he had sold the project to concentrate on 2727 Kirby, but the condos are listed by the same company that is listing 2727 Kirby. That company also has the same address as MDA Holdings. So, perhaps he still had some involvement in Oak Lane.

[JWW]

This was Mike's first out of the ground project but was getting involved in some others including in Costa Rica. He passed from heart failure when he was on vacation in Napa. Horrible - this guy worked so intently for years getting that land fee-simple which is not the most common in that area of Kirby and, in his words, more-or-less designing this building so much on his own. Definitely a lot of vision and quite a lot of courage to change the residential skyline of Houston. Even better of a person than the project - what a loss.

Edited July 11, 2007 by JWW

[houston-development]

Atlas redeveloped the Oak Lane Apartments at 2700 Revere. They are now Oak Lane Condominiums. The Oak Lane project was never as successful as he had hoped, so he never did Phase II (across the street at 2701 Revere). Phase I was first listed in April 2005 and had some units ready for sale by summer, but they still haven't sold them 2 years later.

I thought that he had sold the project to concentrate on 2727 Kirby, but the condos are listed by the same company that is listing 2727 Kirby. That company also has the same address as MDA Holdings. So, perhaps he still had some involvement in Oak Lane.

oak lane could have been a successful project but the jv and rehab costs were just too much.

rather than converting both phases, they sold phase 2 to zom, who will build a class a+ project.

[Gary]

Some photo's of 2727 Kirby as of 7-14-07.

Obviously shot in front of Whole Foods, the crane to the right is 2727, and the two to the left are for West Ave.

I got up as high as I could on this one. Doesn't look like they've done much.

[lockmat]

Wow, they are actually that close to one another? What is that, one block apart?

[Gary]

Wow, they are actually that close to one another? What is that, one block apart?

Both developments are directly across the street from one another, with West Ave obvously covering alot more land.

[lockmat]

Both developments are directly across the street from one another, with West Ave obvously covering alot more land.

Wow, very cool. No doubt 2727 will help out the shopping business at west ave.

[sanman]

Doesn't look like they've done much.

The rain is the problem - it's rained nearly every single day for 2 months or so. The weather has been the only delay since commencement of construction.

Regarding Oak Lane - the main reason that project was purchased was to preserve the views for 2727 Kirby. When the 2nd phase was sold to Zom, it was conveyed with a 75' height restriction. MDA Companies are still involved with the sales of Oak Lane and the Broker who has both projects listed is an in-house Broker.

[Jax]

Here's a photo I recently took that shows the construction along Kirby. None of the structures have gone above tree level yet but 2727 Kirby is at the 2nd or 3rd floor by the looks of it.

[kennyc05]

so its near greenway plaza huh?

[Jax]

Depends on your definition of near. It's about 4 miles or so from Greenway Plaza.