kylejack Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Here's my list of which restaurants and grocery stores will and won't allow it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h9sHI_HXr9AAKTkYXTi7BOLSeEKE4qieyaDyY3Jx5dw/edit?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It would interesting to see whether or not they allowed concealed carry previously and if they will also allow open carry. If they didn't allow concealed carry before I am not surprised if they do not allow open carry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I find it a little counter-intuitive from an end user perspective that green means "no" and red means "yes". I know it's controversial and FWIW, I find it's a stupid and overreaching law (note that this is coming from someone who is against most gun control) but the way the list is written is confusing either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Tige, think of it as green means that you can go in knowing you won't see ammosexuals flaunting their power pieces. And for the record, I'm a Texan, I learned how to shoot before I was 10, and I remain a pretty good shot... but, if the grocery store is so sketchy that one must be armed to go there, it's probably better to shop elsewhere. Regarding restaurants, it's just dumb to carry guns around some place where people can get too much liquid courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Now I have a reason to stop shopping at Kroger and go to HEB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Now I have a reason to stop shopping at Kroger and go to HEB. The "not having a card" and "better store brands" weren't already pull factors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 I find it a little counter-intuitive from an end user perspective that green means "no" and red means "yes". I know it's controversial and FWIW, I find it's a stupid and overreaching law (note that this is coming from someone who is against most gun control) but the way the list is written is confusing either way.Green means good and red means bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naviguessor Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 When I see ordinary citizens open carry in to a place of business, I plan to advise management that either the gun gets put away or I'm taking my business elsewhere. Too many choices in this town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 When I see ordinary citizens open carry in to a place of business, I plan to advise management that either the gun gets put away or I'm taking my business elsewhere. Too many choices in this town. Why do openly carried handguns makes you afraid? I'm not a fan of open carry, but I am not going to let it bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Why do openly carried handguns makes you afraid? I'm not a fan of open carry, but I am not going to let it bother me. I would use the word "wary" rather than "afraid." Regardless, if someone feels the need to walk around with a visible weapon while shopping or dining or whatever it demonstrates a willingness to use it whenever the need is perceived, at best, if not outright paranoia (people out hunting get a pass on this, as do cops). We already have enough of a problem with cops shooting unarmed people, and they have training... not that the training seems to help, as evidenced by the Waller County Sheriff having eight, count 'em, eight weapons stolen from his vehicle in broad daylight. His stated reason for having so much firepower at hand: Fear, because he said he had received death threats over the Sandra Bland controversy. If you can tell me what the visible marker is to distinguish between the good guy with the gun and the bad guy with the gun, I'll reconsider. There is also the issue of accidental discharges, which occur with increasing frequency as more people feel the need to wander around armed to the teeth. Crossfire can also be quite annoying. Again, I'm not afraid of guns per se, and I know how to use them. I received training in responsible marksmanship at an early age back when the NRA was in the business of dispensing such. However, to be blunt, ammosexuals creep me out. Fortunately, I avoid Kroger and Taste of Texas anyway, so it's not much of a loss at mollusk manor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian0123 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Why do openly carried handguns makes you afraid? I'm not a fan of open carry, but I am not going to let it bother me.Because tools designed to kill people are not something I like my kids seeing paraded around proudly by morons. I also don't have any guarantee that those morons have done everything correctly with maintaining the firearm, training, etc. Life is too short to let it be ruined by incompetent blowhards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 Why do openly carried handguns makes you afraid? I'm not a fan of open carry, but I am not going to let it bother me.Open carry seems to attract a more activist type of gun owner who wants to cause a scene, not protect himself. I don't even see how it makes tactical sense. If a guy rushes in robbing the convenience store, I wouldn't want him knowing that I'm armed until I choose to reveal it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naviguessor Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 For me, it's just not the way a civilized should act. In fact, I feel that it's unacceptable. No, I'm not afraid. But, it does make me uncomfortable having them in open public. "Wary" is a good word for it. The kind of people that would feel it necessary to wear guns in public, in the open, do seem like the type of people that just can't wait to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkultra25 Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Open carry seems to attract a more activist type of gun owner who wants to cause a scene, not protect himself. I don't even see how it makes tactical sense. If a guy rushes in robbing the convenience store, I wouldn't want him knowing that I'm armed until I choose to reveal it. This is really the crux of the issue. I guarantee that the vast majority of CHL holders will tell you the same thing if asked about open carry. If I were armed, I would certainly not want to give up the element of surprise by broadcasting that fact in a situation where someone is intent on committing armed robbery (or worse), as the first person the miscreant is going to go after is the one that's visibly packing a pistol on his hip. I also think that, in an urban setting, open carry is simply bad manners. In rural settings, it's probably not going to attract nearly as much negative or unwanted attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 For me, it's just not the way a civilized should act. In fact, I feel that it's unacceptable. No, I'm not afraid. But, it does make me uncomfortable having them in open public. "Wary" is a good word for it. The kind of people that would feel it necessary to wear guns in public, in the open, do seem like the type of people that just can't wait to use them.Texas was part of the old West.Back when the old West was actually new, there were common rules in many of the cattle towns, I am told. What were those rules you ask? Well, when the Cowboys came to town for a night or two of drinking and whoring, it was required that they turn in their firearms with the local sheriff when entering town.The "Wild West" had it figured out, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronTiger Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Texas was part of the old West.Back when the old West was actually new, there were common rules in many of the cattle towns, I am told. What were those rules you ask? Well, when the Cowboys came to town for a night or two of drinking and whoring, it was required that they turn in their firearms with the local sheriff when entering town.The "Wild West" had it figured out, it seems.Which is why bars and others ban them and always have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mollusk Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Texas was the first state to ban open carry. In 1871. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Which is why bars and others ban them and always have.True.Unfortunately, today, unlike those silly folks in the "Wild West", a modern cowboy can now come to town, And NOT have to check his gun with the cops. The modern cowboy can come to town not from his working ranch but from his suburban rancher, leave his gun in his car, go get blotto, then come back to his car, strap on his piece and, with a newly found whiskey trigger finger, decide to have his own version of a modern Texas shoot 'em up.There was a Reason why those "dumb country bumpkin western folks" passed the laws and city ordinances that they did. Because it was pragmatic. Oh, and we had the same Bill of Rights then as we do now. Hasn't changed. Two things have changed though: One, We have weaponry and ammunition that is FAR more powerful and deadly, and two, we have the NRA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Which is why bars and others ban them and always have. Bars only ban firearms because it's state law. And that only really applies to establishments that get more than 50% of their revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption. The modern cowboy can come to town not from his working ranch but from his suburban rancher, leave his gun in his car, go get blotto, then come back to his car, strap on his piece and, with a newly found whiskey trigger finger, decide to have his own version of a modern Texas shoot 'em up. The open carry law does nothing to make this more or less likely. It doesn't stop anyone from having a handgun in the car, since that's been legal for a few years, based on a prior law. Plus, anyone who is likely to do that isn't going to be stopped by a law in the first place. And, it is against the law for a carry license holder in Texas to have a firearm while intoxicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Bars only ban firearms because it's state law. And that only really applies to establishments that get more than 50% of their revenue from the sale of alcohol for on premises consumption.The open carry law does nothing to make this more or less likely. It doesn't stop anyone from having a handgun in the car, since that's been legal for a few years, based on a prior law. Plus, anyone who is likely to do that isn't going to be stopped by a law in the first place. And, it is against the law for a carry license holder in Texas to have a firearm while intoxicated.I agree with everything you say. You are correct. But you are missing my overall point......Back in the "Wild West", folks who came to town had to turn their side arms in to the sheriff and collect them as you were leaving town. Those ordinances were apparently legal and constitutional then. Now, it would be considered a violation of somebody's constitutional rights. The folks in the Wild West did understand something quite basic: city life and guns just don't mix well and carrying them around in the city either concealed or in the open is just not a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 My understanding of this is that the new law is just an extension of the current CHL law that allows the option to carry openly or concealed. You still have to have the training and license to do so. So, how much crime/disturbances/disorder have been caused by the existing CHL laws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Now I have a reason to stop shopping at Kroger and go to HEB. Might give all new meaning to Combat Kroger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UtterlyUrban Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 So, how much crime/disturbances/disorder have been caused by the existing CHL laws?Turn the question around. If having sidearms in cities, concealed or open carry is a good idea, then tell me how many crimes/disturbances/disorder that has been prevented by those legally packing heat?Here is one study that shows zero impact on the crime rate:https://www.texastribune.org/2015/09/24/study-says-concealed-carry-permits-dont-affect-cri/Further, I was told the other day (but I have no idea if it is true) that right here in Texas, you need a license to open carry. Unfortunately, however, no police offer, seeing your side arm on the sidewalk, has the right to ask you if you have a license to carry. Nope. I was told that they can't stop you and ask. Terrific. Makes me feel a lot safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 My understanding of this is that the new law is just an extension of the current CHL law that allows the option to carry openly or concealed. You still have to have the training and license to do so. So, how much crime/disturbances/disorder have been caused by the existing CHL laws? Well, there was the concealed carry holder in Kingwood whose gun fell out of his jacket pocket and shot a woman at a restaurant a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august948 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Turn the question around. If having sidearms in cities, concealed or open carry is a good idea, then tell me how many crimes/disturbances/disorder that has been prevented by those legally packing heat?Here is one study that shows zero impact on the crime rate:https://www.texastribune.org/2015/09/24/study-says-concealed-carry-permits-dont-affect-cri/Further, I was told the other day (but I have no idea if it is true) that right here in Texas, you need a license to open carry. Unfortunately, however, no police offer, seeing your side arm on the sidewalk, has the right to ask you if you have a license to carry. Nope. I was told that they can't stop you and ask. Terrific. Makes me feel a lot safer. So, statistically speaking, the effect has been neutral. I looked up the part about police not being able to ask and that's kind of true. They can ask, but you aren't required to answer. However, in a traffic stop you are required to present both your drivers and chl licenses. Apparently, prohibiting a required answer was to prevent police from racial profiling or harassment. Can The Police Stop a Texas Open Carrier to Check for a License? By Robert Farago on June 4, 2015 A raging debate nearly derailed the new Open Carry law in Texas (which will take effect on January 1). It centered around the so-called “Dutton Amendment” or “Dutton/Huffines Amendment.” Briefly stated, the amendment forbid police officers from stopping and detaining an open-carrier to check them for possessing a handgun license – if their suspicion that a crime is being committed is solely based on the evidence that they were carrying a gun. This amendment was excoriated by Austin Police Chief Acevedo when it was first adopted . . .Representative Dutton introduced the amendment as a measure to prevent police from using the new Open Carry law being used to racially profile and harass minorities. It was passed by the House by an overwhelming margin (133-10), but stripped out of the bill by the Senate. Senator Huffines re-added the amendment to the bill as a necessary protection against hassle and police abuse of power.The bill’s author (Senator Estes) and committee chair (Senator Huffman) both argued against adoption of the amendment, stating it was “unnecessary.”The amendment created some strange bedfellows: a coalition of left-wing Democrats and tea-party Republicans, both concerned about potential 4th Amendment violations. They banded together to overrule the more centrist Republican majority and add the amendment back in to the bill.http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06/robert-farago/can-the-police-stop-a-texas-open-carrier-to-check-for-a-license/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 Harris County and HPD officials say they can require the person to ID, so ymmv with advice from pro-gun sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I would be scared someone would rob me for my pistol if I choose to open carry it. I have several and none of them are that cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmac Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I don't understand the motivation to carry a firearm in public, openly or not, but on the ranked list of "Things That Make Me Uncomfortable Being Done in Public", it is quite low. It just looks silly. I'm much more uncomfortable with cocky drivers who think it's OK to endanger my life by speeding and/or weaving through traffic, and drivers who think it's OK to have a drink or two before getting behind the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkultra25 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 My understanding of this is that the new law is just an extension of the current CHL law that allows the option to carry openly or concealed. You still have to have the training and license to do so. So, how much crime/disturbances/disorder have been caused by the existing CHL laws? Yes, you must have a CHL in order to open carry a pistol. Open carry of rifles and shotguns remains the same as before, no license required to do so. The DPS tracks conviction rates of CHL holders against conviction rates of the entire population of Texas on a yearly basis: https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/reports/convrates.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerNut Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 For my own safety as a minority I would never consider open carry. I can't wait for the questions about it when I travel though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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