Slick Vik Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 A relevant piece from the NYT.The short version: rail is far more expensive than bus service yet no faster, but rail lines continue to be built because bus service is perceived as inferior. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/business/to-save-on-rail-lines-market-the-bus-line.html?referrer=&_r=0This is talking about buses with right of way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Actual quote from article: from most places in New York City, it won’t be faster than taking existing bus serviceto the airport, because it will run southeast from the airport, away from Manhattan. (the airport the article refers to is LaGuardia). It stands to reason that going in the wrong direction might affect ride times... As for Oakland's rail replacement of the AirBart... as a percentage, the few minutes it saves is significant, and that's before factoring in frequency. Beyond that, the AirBart bus had to stop at a number of lights and navigate several intersection turns. It was a slightly less dramatic ride than the current Land Rover ad with the street car motorman throwing people all over the place by abruptly stopping to admire the car. There was a plan in the 90's that was shot down by nimbys in queens to make a train route that connected to routes that actually made sense. This is just helping developers who have a stake at the station it will connect to. As far as Oakland this is a HUGE improvement over the bus. More frequent and faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I like the new bus routes, hopefully the can spur an increase in ridership. I also like how they've removed some redundant parallel bus routes and routes running next to the rail lines, I think they've used the interaction between bus and rail lines well here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasek Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 A relevant piece from the NYT. The short version: rail is far more expensive than bus service yet no faster, but rail lines continue to be built because bus service is perceived as inferior. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/business/to-save-on-rail-lines-market-the-bus-line.html?referrer=&_r=0 Do you ride the metro bus to work?Do you take a metro bus to specific activities on your leisure time? Like, say, the Rodeo or an Opera?If you do, how do you like the experience? If you don't, why don't you? If i want to take the long way and get stuck in the same traffic i would have if i had been driving, ill take the bus. if i actually want to get where im going ill take the rail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moore713 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 See from someone who uses the bus and rail regular. .I can depart from Greenpoint at 1216..and still get to my job at Hermann buy 1.30...why because I know how ,when and we're to catch them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkultra25 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Actual quote from article: from most places in New York City, it won’t be faster than taking existing bus service to the airport, because it will run southeast from the airport, away from Manhattan. (the airport the article refers to is LaGuardia). It stands to reason that going in the wrong direction might affect ride times... As for Oakland's rail replacement of the AirBart... as a percentage, the few minutes it saves is significant, and that's before factoring in frequency. Beyond that, the AirBart bus had to stop at a number of lights and navigate several intersection turns. It was a slightly less dramatic ride than the current Land Rover ad with the street car motorman throwing people all over the place by abruptly stopping to admire the car. Yeah, guess I should've provided more context when posting that. I don't necessarily expect NYC's experiences to carry over everywhere else, but I find it interesting when issues that are beaten to death here (such as rail vs. bus, or, God forbid, gentrification) surface in other parts in the country, often characterized by even more rancorous debates. The other day my wife, who works in the Galleria area, was without her car for the day, so she decided to do something she'd been talking about for a while: take the Red line rail downtown, then transfer to a bus for the remainder of the trip to her office. She was favorably impressed with the bus service, and noted that one advantage it had over rail was that buses don't stop at bus stops if there isn't anyone waiting to get on or signaling to get off. Total time door to door was just under an hour, so barring something worse than the usual awfulness on I-10 or the West Loop, driving is still significantly faster for her, but it's certainly a viable alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joke Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I guess I'm not surprised (given one of the ways they were improving overall network service was decreasing the overkill in downtown), but this makes my bus commute from western edge of Midtown to western edge of downtown appreciably worse. Used to be I could pick up the 53, 81, 82 or 163 on Louisiana at MGowen, go straight north and get dropped off a block from work. Now I'm down to one option that will be running two blocks to the east of the current line, adding 4 blocks of walking. I'm not too bummed at the moment since in this weather I bike or walk (it's only about 25 min, which is only a few minutes more than taking the bus), but I'll probably have a stronger opinion when it's sweltering in August and they roll this out. Oh well, time for Midtown to revive that free trolley into downtown that we had in the early '00s. (I'm not imagining that, right? That was a thing? I think I didn't start working in downtown until after it stopped running, but my friends took it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'd like more rail AND better bus service, please.If only more people thought like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
placoors Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Oh well, time for Midtown to revive that free trolley into downtown that we had in the early '00s. (I'm not imagining that, right? That was a thing? I think I didn't start working in downtown until after it stopped running, but my friends took it.) Yes. Definitely used to be a thing. http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Downtown-trolleys-to-stop-rolling-April-1-1914402.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The Greenlink is a free METRO service that circulates people around downtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joke Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yes. Definitely used to be a thing. http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Downtown-trolleys-to-stop-rolling-April-1-1914402.php Thanks for the link, kind of fascinating. The article says ithe old free trolley started in 98, ridership peaked at 10,384 daily boardings in 2001, then had dropped to 5,011 by 2004 at which point Metro reconfigured routes/cut service and it immediately dropped to 2,000, then added a 50-cent fare late in 2004 which dropped it to 300 and so they killed it in 2005. Article doesn't attempt to explain why boardings dropped from 10k to 5k, so it seems it was "organic" and not due to route/service changes. The article does quote the reason for starting the service as being to help relieve congestion caused by the big downtown street redo, which started in 98 and was mostly completed by 2005. (I vaguely remember all that, and man - downtown streets were a nightmare in the early '00s -- just crazy how much was constantly torn up. Rainy days,we might as well have built our CBD in an unpaved swamp.) So my guess is that the roads were so bad that a chunk of people were happy to park outside downtown and then trolley in? But they gradually got better so more people drove straight to downtown. The Greenlink is a free METRO service that circulates people around downtown. Yeah, but unlike the old trolley it doesn't even get close to Midtown -- doesn't go south of Pease. I'm sure it's good for what it's for, but for me I'd only take it four blocks from Polk to Pease on my way home (not worth it). And on my way in I'd have to do an extra two blocks of walking just to use it for those four. Maybe Downtown and Midtown can get together on a joint circulator. Something that ran in roughly a (digital alarm clock's) figure 8, with Pierce Elevated or similar being the middle horizontal line. If they ran two routes that were roughly the same except but in opposite directions, would give a lot of good coverage with no transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ah. Well, we've got the frequent rail for Midtown/Downtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joke Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Yeah, I used the rail a lot when my office was Main. But last year we moved west to Smith, which (since I live three blocks west of Bagby) puts the rail 4 blocks out of my way -- meaning an extra 8 blocks (vs walking) on any trip. According to google, if I just walk it's 1.3 miles (27 minutes); if I take the train it's 1.0 miles of walking plus 3 train stops (total 25 min assuming the train is waiting for me when I get to the station). The new bus routes will still be slightly better distance-wise for me than the train (I assume, depending on where the stops are) because the 82 will run north on Travis and south on Milam, but less frequent most of the time and less reliable. Anyways, hope I'm not coming off as too whiny. I was expecting this to be the case -- I always knew I had it too good with all the different lines routed through downtown/midtown that fit my commute (53,81,82,163). When Christof described how overserved downtown is (with the old system forcing so many folks to connect through downtown, despite Houston being "multicentric"), I knew that the odds were that the reimagining would negatively impact my commute. Just a little bummed now that I see it on paper - and thinking that after this goes in I'll probably only be using Metro on days when it's pouring or I'm going to literally sweat through my shirt. (Or maybe I'll just Uber it those days- I had sworn off Houston taxis for being completely unreliable, but Uber is the bomb diggity.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Yeah, I used the rail a lot when my office was Main. But last year we moved west to Smith, which (since I live three blocks west of Bagby) puts the rail 4 blocks out of my way -- meaning an extra 8 blocks (vs walking) on any trip. According to google, if I just walk it's 1.3 miles (27 minutes); if I take the train it's 1.0 miles of walking plus 3 train stops (total 25 min assuming the train is waiting for me when I get to the station).The new bus routes will still be slightly better distance-wise for me than the train (I assume, depending on where the stops are) because the 82 will run north on Travis and south on Milam, but less frequent most of the time and less reliable.Anyways, hope I'm not coming off as too whiny. I was expecting this to be the case -- I always knew I had it too good with all the different lines routed through downtown/midtown that fit my commute (53,81,82,163). When Christof described how overserved downtown is (with the old system forcing so many folks to connect through downtown, despite Houston being "multicentric"), I knew that the odds were that the reimagining would negatively impact my commute. Just a little bummed now that I see it on paper - and thinking that after this goes in I'll probably only be using Metro on days when it's pouring or I'm going to literally sweat through my shirt. (Or maybe I'll just Uber it those days- I had sworn off Houston taxis for being completely unreliable, but Uber is the bomb diggity.)I know what you mean walking beats the bus/train just because of timing and it's good exercise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I was driving down Washington Ave as it turns in to Old Katy Rd. And while I love the reimagined bus routes, I noticed some stops are basically located on random old lots or right next to grassy patches on the side of Hempstead Rd, with no logical access to the stops either and no nicely paved sidewalks for pedestrians. So my question is, why doesn't Metro get rid of these routes? They don't seem safe to access, and my initial thought was if someone get's dropped off at one of these locations, they have to go through a lot of trouble just to go to an area safe enough to walk. I thought the entire idea of the plan was to get rid of stops that don't make sense, and none of these stops make sense. If I'm not mistaken, when I was at a red light, I noticed the bus stop for buses 66 and 32 to give an example of what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloud713 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Heh, just saw all the discussion in here about an old midtown trolley/shuttle. I mentioned something along those lines in a rail thread..A midtown streetcar or "GreenLink" with a few light rail stops would be ideal.. Have it hit the local bars at nights and cruise the residential areas during the day.So yeah.. Why don't they bring something like this back? The residential population in midtown is bigger than ever and I would presume the bar scene is quite a bit more established now than it was 15 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 So, has anyone tried out the new system? I would if I didn't live in DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Don't know about the busses yet, but the free fare definitely has filled the red line for a Sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I'm actually going to test the the new network whenever possible. I'm even going the extreme route and parking my car at a park n ride and taking the bus all the way to work into town! If I need to get anywhere in town? Using the bus. Should be an interesting experiment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfastx Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm actually going to test the the new network whenever possible. I'm even going the extreme route and parking my car at a park n ride and taking the bus all the way to work into town! If I need to get anywhere in town? Using the bus. Should be an interesting experiment! Good luck! Keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_cuevas713 Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm actually going to test the the new network whenever possible. I'm even going the extreme route and parking my car at a park n ride and taking the bus all the way to work into town! If I need to get anywhere in town? Using the bus. Should be an interesting experiment!I'm going to do the same, probably Friday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I'm going to try that the rest of this week - free rides are cheaper than wear and tear on my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Vik Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 In downtown hearing a mix of confusion and positive reaction. Also the trains are packed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
79ta Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I ride the 85 (which is normally pretty crowded) and transfer at the NW TC on to the 131 (which has morphed in to the 162 among others). I experienced a little confusion at the TC because the bus lanes were reorganized and also heard two separate drivers say they were trying to learn the new routes. All in all, the changes shaved off around 10 minutes from my round trip. Overall, I'd grade it a solid A. The increased peak frequency is certainly nice and a free ride is always welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminare Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 FYI the park & rides are NOT FREE! Learned that the hard way this morning! It was weird because yesterday I was able to get on park & rides without a problem. Then while trying to make a connection with the 283 bus to greenway (which is a park & ride route) this morning I was pretty much thrown out of the bus. I then read the fine print on the website and ONE new source that park & rides were not free this week.... Almost no news sites mentioned this. All the big banners that say free rides don't mention this. On local buses it says local and rail, but I assumed it would say that because its a local bus/rail. On the dang park and ride buses they have the free ride banners on them!!! Holy crap metro! I honestly don't understand why park and rides aren't free this week. That's the dumbest thing I have ever seen. They had a way of potentially getting more people to ride their service into town, but instead the don't do that! That is beyond stupid! Now that I have that out of the way....Everything else is a solid A so far. Lightrail has gotten a boost in service/more trains on the lines. The routes make more sense and easier to understand and read. The interactive map on the website is excellent. The local routes that I have ridden (especially the frequent flyer ones) have been very quick. The park and ride.....come on Metro that was just dumb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totheskies Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Al Jazeera America In Houston, the wheels on the bus go (almost) all through the town HOUSTON — On Saturday night hundreds of transit workers criss-crossed Houston ripping off plastic bags that had covered new bus signs at 10,450 stops.Houston has done something that few cities undertake. On Sunday morning, millions awoke to a completely reinvented bus system.At the downtown transit center, touch screen bus maps oriented riders to the new route. In the early morning, several passengers lined up at kiosks to find out how to get around on the redesigned system. A Metro staff member noticed a map of the old system still hanging in a glass case, unhooked it and rolled it up. All morning excited volunteers, staff and board members walked around giving directions and calling in small tweaks to the new bus system that has been two years in the making.Houston has ballooned into the fourth-largest city in the U.S. (and the most ethnically diverse city in the country), with a bus system mapped in the 1970s. The population has almost doubled, but the bus map had stayed roughly the same. Like many U.S. cities, Houston no longer has one traditional city center but is made up of several densely populated urban hubs, and an increasing number of people live and work where the bus lines did not reach. Instead of changing the system piece by piece, Houston decided to reimagine the entire network from scratch. It's an unprecedented change, and cities across the country are watching Houston to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 They hadn't redone the bus network since the 70s? Even during the 80s with the big oil boom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samagon Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 after the negative spin the media has put on the new routes, I'm glad to hear stories of people with reduced commutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeopleAreStrange Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Based on the online schedule, looks like travel time on the bus route I sometimes ride has been reduced from 60 mins to 40 mins. However, there are many complaints about increased travel time on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cspwal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 I've been riding the bus the last couple of days. Yesterday, didn't wait for a bus or train at all (good thing since it was pouring), but it did take a while longer than the old bus that I could have taken to work. But I never took that bus because it left at 7:30 and I am not a morning person >.<Overall, I think this is a good start - frequency matters, but now they need to work on travel time. Once you get off a park and ride bus, your average speed drops off a cliff, and once you get off the train, your speed is about the same as biking with all the stops and (in my case) a mile deviation to a transit center right before my stop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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