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Moore713

3501 Main St., 16-story Office Building for Midtown

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Created a separate thread for the office tower.

"Schultz and his partners have other plans for the Midtown area. They are in the process of acquiring the ground lease from Trinity Church for the property at Holman and Main between the church and Ensemble Theatre, he said, and hope to build an office tower."

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/Mid-Main-project-will-ride-with-the-millennials-4851864.php?cmpid=btfpm#/3

"Linbeck is the general contractor for the project and Lewis Property Co. will do the leasing. Construction is being financed by IBC. Transwestern will lease an office tower planned on a nearby block."

http://blog.chron.com/primeproperty/2013/09/is-the-mid-main-project-the-future-of-urban-houston/

Edited by Urbannizer

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I like how it's just sort of a throw away sentence. Guess she didn't have any more info on it.

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its about time midtown starts to make a presence in the sky... hopefully this trend continues so we can start to work on connecting downtowns skyline with the TMCs skyline through midtown and the museum district.

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its about time midtown starts to make a presence in the sky... hopefully this trend continues so we can start to work on connecting downtowns skyline with the TMCs skyline through midtown and the museum district.

 

 

was'nt there suppose to be a medical tower proposed for midtown, but it feel thu after the economy tanked?

 

I have that dream of a main street lined with high rasies and towers.. 

Edited by Moore713
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was'nt there suppose to be a medical tower proposed for midtown, but it feel thu after the economy tanked?

 

I have that dream of a main street lined with high rasies and towers.. 

I think we've all had that dream ;)

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This is great news but I also noticed MATCH is barely at 61% total funding for their project. How likely are either of these to actually happen?

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They should expand the TMC into midtown....and have a Midtown Medical Center....which would be an extension of the Med Ctr....have the hospitals close to the rail...and just put a TON of office buildings/Hospitals in Midtown and we can finally have midtown connected to the TMC

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its about time midtown starts to make a presence in the sky... hopefully this trend continues so we can start to work on connecting downtowns skyline with the TMCs skyline through midtown and the museum district.

I've been saying this for years! What can we do to make this happen?

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They should expand the TMC into midtown....and have a Midtown Medical Center....which would be an extension of the Med Ctr....have the hospitals close to the rail...and just put a TON of office buildings/Hospitals in Midtown and we can finally have midtown connected to the TMC

i hope i dont sound this crazy when i ramble about connecting skylines one day.. heh.

you do realize TMC is like 2 miles from midtown, right? as pointed out, there is an entire district/neighborhood in between midtown and TMC, along with a very large park separating TMC from the Museum District. they would have to triple the size of the medical center and gobble up everything in between to have it all be one big medical center. our museum district would be an odd mish-mash of museums and hospitals.. doctors mingling at rail stops with tourists.. it would be weird. midtown may (hopefully) get some high rises one day. maybe this one will start a new trend but there arent many areas to develop high rises along the light rail in midtown. the main one i notice is the lot between HCC and the SuperBlock. other then that they could maybe redevelop the Sears, or the 3 block site north of McGowen thats used for parking.

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i hope i dont sound this crazy when i ramble about connecting skylines one day.. heh.

you do realize TMC is like 2 miles from midtown, right? as pointed out, there is an entire district/neighborhood in between midtown and TMC, along with a very large park separating TMC from the Museum District. they would have to triple the size of the medical center and gobble up everything in between to have it all be one big medical center. our museum district would be an odd mish-mash of museums and hospitals.. doctors mingling at rail stops with tourists.. it would be weird. midtown may (hopefully) get some high rises one day. maybe this one will start a new trend but there arent many areas to develop high rises along the light rail in midtown. the main one i notice is the lot between HCC and the SuperBlock. other then that they could maybe redevelop the Sears, or the 3 block site north of McGowen thats used for parking.

 

 

Basically what I meant was we already have a TMC why not create another TMC and since space is running out in the TMC why not have a  TMC #2  if you will in Midtown.....there are still infill sites needed in midtown that can be filled ....TMC #2  will add some huge buildings to midtown helping connect "the gap" between Downtown and TMC....The Museum District would need a few more buildings as well....Overall even with a few added buildings to The Museum District and adding a TMC #2 to Midtown you would still have some gaps in the Downtown to TMC skyline but coming into the city it would look nicely connected not perfect but the buildings will be close enough to "look" connected and as far as "doctors mingling at rail stops with tourists" who cares? whats so odd about that? I've seen stuff like that on the subway in NYC Chicago and Hong Kong ? so what would make it so odd? Are we all supposed to be separated into 'castes" and sworn never to mingle among each other?BTW you do realize that  "doctors mingling at rail stops with tourists" probably already happens here...I know people who work in finance and engineering in Downtown and interact with TMC personal on the rail on they way home to Reliant Park and on that train they see tourists...so its not a huge deal....Oh yeah and you do sound this crazy when rambling about connecting skylines one day...

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There two open pieces of land which means downtown and TMC skylines will never be connected: Rice University and Hermann Park.

 

And also, TMC didn't just happen by itself. It was planned and the land was donated - without master planning, midtown will always be the random collection of buildings and uses it is today - which is just fine, it gives it a unique identity.

 

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@Elseed

Midtown land is owned by individuals... TMC land is the TMC. Also, the TMC has a lot of land still and their 20 year plan has them building on it a ton. The land is south and below the bayou. Probably in 20-30 years the TMC skyline will connect towards Reliant stadium. I'm on mobile right now, but the TMC website has a huge PDF outlining their growth plans south of the bayou.

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Like Brian says, I think the future of TMC is to the south, not the north. Land values in Midtown are likely too high for hospitals. And I think this is for the best. Do we want Midtown overwhelmed with traffic? I don't even think office buildings are good for the neighborhood - all the commuters going downtown are bad enough. I'm hoping for residential with walkable streets. I know people want to see skylines connect, but imagine if lower Manhattan's skyline connected with Midtown Manhattan - you wouldn't have Greenwich Village or all those great neighborhoods in between, it would just be glass and concrete. No thanks.

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Tmc had far to go to catch up to downtown.

Tmc is about 40M sq feet of total floor space. Downtown is about 55M of office space not including residential, retail or education.

The lower values posted for downtown is the total office space minus vacant buildings. In other words its the office soace for lease or already leased.

It doesn't make sense to compare all space in one district to just the space with offices in another while ignoring all other buildings

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te name="fernz" post="452169" timestamp="1394281091"]

There two open pieces of land which means downtown and TMC skylines will never be connected: Rice University and Hermann Park.

And also, TMC didn't just happen by itself. It was planned and the land was donated - without master planning, midtown will always be the random collection of buildings and uses it is today - which is just fine, it gives it a unique identity.

Let's not forget the Almeda Road-Crawford corridor

This.. The two Mosaics, the Spires, the new development planned next to the spires, the parklane, and the new tower at hermann place are all a good start to bypassing those 2 areas..

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it wouldn't be unreasonable to consider that the east side of hermann park could eventually be surrounded by highrise residential, much like other parks in other large cities.

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There two open pieces of land which means downtown and TMC skylines will never be connected: Rice University and Hermann Park.

 

And also, TMC didn't just happen by itself. It was planned and the land was donated - without master planning, midtown will always be the random collection of buildings and uses it is today - which is just fine, it gives it a unique identity.

 

1. As far as the open pieces of land goes as long as there are a cluster of buildings close too both sides of Rice U. and Herman park when you are coming towards downtown visually it'll look connected I'm not say all the buildings will be 10 ft away from each other I'm saying the buildings will be close enough to each other to give some form of connection visually which I'm happy with....also look at Manhattan there's a ton of buildings surrounding Central Park but yet that doesn't screw up their skyline...they just built around it....and everything still looks connected..

 

2.You right about TMC being planned and having master planning...but whose to say that can't happen again in Midtown?

Edited by Elseed

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1. As far as the open pieces of land goes as long as there are a cluster of buildings close too both sides of Rice U. and Herman park when you are coming towards downtown visually it'll look connected I'm not say all the buildings will be 10 ft away from each other I'm saying the buildings will be close enough to each other to give some form of connection visually which I'm happy with....also look at Manhattan there's a ton of buildings surrounding Central Park but yet that doesn't screw up their skyline...they just built around it....and everything still looks connected..

 

2.You right about TMC being planned and having master planning...but whose to say that can't happen again in Midtown?

 

remember that the medical center was property owned by one person (william marsh rice?  i should know this. perhaps someone can confirm) or organization and donated or set aside for the purpose of having research hospitals.  it was one piece of land.  to "master plan" midtown would require all of the owners of smaller properties to sell to one owner or developer.  barring a major depression where land is sold for pennies on the dollar, a master-planned midtown (even a portion of it) is highly unlikely.  now, could demand or incentives create a greater possibility of taller buildings in midtown, absolutely.

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Like Brian says, I think the future of TMC is to the south, not the north. Land values in Midtown are likely too high for hospitals. And I think this is for the best. Do we want Midtown overwhelmed with traffic? I don't even think office buildings are good for the neighborhood - all the commuters going downtown are bad enough. I'm hoping for residential with walkable streets. I know people want to see skylines connect, but imagine if lower Manhattan's skyline connected with Midtown Manhattan - you wouldn't have Greenwich Village or all those great neighborhoods in between, it would just be glass and concrete. No thanks.

 

 

I agree with the fact that there is a possibility of traffic being bad in Midtown but the truth is traffic probably is going to get worse anyway just because there are a lot more people moving into midtown and the fact that Houston has a terrible public transit system....as long as there is growth in Houston's city center there will be a chance of a traffic increase....If the buildings are properly placed in Midtown I don't think it would be an issue and also the rail goes to midtown but hopefully with the new rail lines starting up and the possibility that Metro is going to "re-imagine" the current transit system traffic might not be that bad....

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@Elseed

Midtown land is owned by individuals... TMC land is the TMC. Also, the TMC has a lot of land still and their 20 year plan has them building on it a ton. The land is south and below the bayou. Probably in 20-30 years the TMC skyline will connect towards Reliant stadium. I'm on mobile right now, but the TMC website has a huge PDF outlining their growth plans south of the bayou.

 

True......but like most of us in this forum a lot of the ideas spoken in this forum is wishful thinking and just general brainstorming....which is where I like most of us is coming from....whether Downtown ever connects to TMC or if Downtown ever connects to Uptown....who knows? Maybe it will? Maybe it won't? but hey we can always dream....

Edited by Elseed

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remember that the medical center was property owned by one person (william marsh rice?  i should know this. perhaps someone can confirm) or organization and donated or set aside for the purpose of having research hospitals.  it was one piece of land.  to "master plan" midtown would require all of the owners of smaller properties to sell to one owner or developer.  barring a major depression where land is sold for pennies on the dollar, a master-planned midtown (even a portion of it) is highly unlikely.  now, could demand or incentives create a greater possibility of taller buildings in midtown, absolutely.

True....I'm happy with just getting some taller buildings in Midtown....and as far as the "Midtown Medical Ctr" idea...like I said in another post just wishful thinking/brainstorming...but hey who knows?

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...........not to hijack the thread, but considering "connecting urban centers" in houston: while looking at google earth tonight, i noticed an angle between uptown and greenway plaza that has several towers under construction or planned.  it looks like there is more potential for the uptown skyline to connect with greenway plaza than downtown and tmc.  if you set google earth on the perspective thingy.....yes, i said it........ and view uptown and greeway plaza while considering the residential and office towers going up, you can begin to imagine how the two areas can connect.  

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...........not to hijack the thread, but considering "connecting urban centers" in houston: while looking at google earth tonight, i noticed an angle between uptown and greenway plaza that has several towers under construction or planned.  it looks like there is more potential for the uptown skyline to connect with greenway plaza than downtown and tmc.  if you set google earth on the perspective thingy.....yes, i said it........ and view uptown and greeway plaza while considering the residential and office towers going up, you can begin to imagine how the two areas can connect.  

 

In responding to your hijacking...

 

I agree with you. I believe by 2020 Uptown - Greenway Plaza - Upper Kirby will have alot more connectivity skyline wise. It will be very spotty, but in time it will fill in, like everything does. 

 

If you look at New York City, Manhattan is an island where some areas are alot higher than others, while some areas in between are pretty low. It gives it a natural feel. I think this is Houston's destiny. We dont have a 'Central Park' but we have 3 very urban parks - Buffalo Bayou, Memorial, and Hermann Park. Midtown's issue is simply location. The attractions are to the South (TMC and Hermann Park) and to the North (Downtown and Buffalo Bayou). Eventually Midtown will have towers, but it wont come dead in the center and the line connecting them wont be straight. The triangle will be Uptown - TMC - DT... everything in and around those areas will grow vertically with time.

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14331361075_a580c83dc1_b.jpg

The office portion of Mid Main, a mixed-use development in Midtown, is slated to break ground as soon as preleasing is complete, Transwestern said June 2.

Houston-based Transwestern is in charge of finding office tenant(s) for the eight-story, 203,316-square-foot, Class A office building at 3501 Main St., which is scheduled for completion in the spring of 2016.

The office building’s 545-space parking garage will include 9,716 square feet of high-end retail space on the first floor. Houston-based Lewis Property Co. is leasing the retail space.

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news/2014/06/02/mid-main-mixed-use-development-to-break-ground.html

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I wonder why they don't put the office space on the Main Street side and the parking garage on the Fannin Street side, instead of having the parking garage all over the place?  Maybe the goal is for this to also serve as a retail parking garage that serves the surrounding area, in which case it makes some sense to maximize visibility. But it's still an eyesore to their apartments across the street.

 

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^^not sure how you would make that work without comprising an entire side of the building with parking garage views. it looks like they've tried to treat the main street portion of the garage to a similar aesthetic as the office portion so i don't really get the complaint.

 

curious to see what sort of traction they receieve in preleasing, though. as desperately as everyone wants midtown to start sprouting office buildings, historically there really hasn't been demand for it and very few high credit tenants would view it as any sort of viable alternative to cbd.

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^^not sure how you would make that work without comprising an entire side of the building with parking garage views. it looks like they've tried to treat the main street portion of the garage to a similar aesthetic as the office portion so i don't really get the complaint.

 

Right, the idea is that the office space would be on the Main Street side and the parking garage on the Fannin side. So the Fannin side would be compromised, similar to how Rusk Street will be compromised by the garage planned for Skanska's building, etc.  This is based on the idea that Main is the street to see and be seen on, and that their apartments across the street would rather look across at offices than at parked cars.

 

My guess as to why they didn't go this route is that they wanted all their office space up high, so that it would have better views. Hopefully Main will get to the point where a 2nd-4th floor office above it will be desirable for the views of the street.

 

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If you look at the rendering closely it appears that they have masked the corners and ends of the garage to keep it from looking so much like a garage. I could be wrong but it looks like they have altered the facade on the ends to be  a little more appealing. 

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Ground floor retail, 7 (?) floors of parking, 8 floors of office, 16 total? Not a bad sized building for the area. The renderings are blah, and the exposed parking is ugly, but overall it's not too bad.

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Right, the idea is that the office space would be on the Main Street side and the parking garage on the Fannin side. So the Fannin side would be compromised, similar to how Rusk Street will be compromised by the garage planned for Skanska's building, etc.  This is based on the idea that Main is the street to see and be seen on, and that their apartments across the street would rather look across at offices than at parked cars.

 

My guess as to why they didn't go this route is that they wanted all their office space up high, so that it would have better views. Hopefully Main will get to the point where a 2nd-4th floor office above it will be desirable for the views of the street.

 

 

what difference does it make if they're going to have GFR along main? if they mask the portion of the garage that faces main to look like office i fail to see why they would ever go the route you are suggesting. odds are the apartment dwellers across the street don't care one iota, nevermind that they probably won't be able to see the cars due to the treatment that portion of the garage will get on top of the fact that practically all of those residents will be away at work during business hours regardless. it's not like the offices have balconies so that the tenants can engage with the "see and be seen" Main Street. that's some mighty fine nit-picking.

 

downtown houston is a totally different beast since practically every building abutts up against another tall structure - lots of views get blocked.

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what difference does it make if they're going to have GFR along main? if they mask the portion of the garage that faces main to look like office i fail to see why they would ever go the route you are suggesting. odds are the apartment dwellers across the street don't care one iota, nevermind that they probably won't be able to see the cars due to the treatment that portion of the garage will get on top of the fact that practically all of those residents will be away at work during business hours regardless. it's not like the offices have balconies so that the tenants can engage with the "see and be seen" Main Street. that's some mighty fine nit-picking.

 

downtown houston is a totally different beast since practically every building abutts up against another tall structure - lots of views get blocked.

 

GFR is great, but the way the building looks above it has an impact as well. Yes, they are apparently doing some surface treatment on the Main Street side, but it's still obviously a parking garage, and thus has a less desirable effect on the atmosphere than office would. Take for example the garage at 601 Travis, which has an excellent surface treatment, but nonetheless is a glum thing to look at for Rice Lofts residents. I'd be willing to bet that many residents across the street would pay at least one iota to look at an office building rather than a veneered parking garage.

 

I don't understand what you're saying about balconies. The point is, if Main Street is the see-and-be-seen street, then designing a building that looks best top-to-bottom on that street and sticking the garage on Fannin seems like a better choice than doing half garage, half office on both. Many other buildings in Houston have chosen to push the parking garage out of view from the desirable street and do a full office or office/retail treatment from top to bottom.

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I have to agree.  It looks like a dreary office building perched on top of a dreary parking garage.  I would kind of prefer a shorter streetscape for Midtown.  I always thought that the HCC building was way out of scale for the neighborhood, and this looks as if it could be as well..

 

 

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... I would kind of prefer a shorter streetscape for Midtown.  I always thought that the HCC building was way out of scale for the neighborhood, and this looks as if it could be as well..

Really?  I've always thought Midtown should be a bit more vertical particularly near Downtown.  No 50 floor buildings - unless something grand is proposed - but perhaps eventually we can have 8-15 floor towers throughout.  I mean, those tin-can townhomes will eventually be nasty looking and it has always looked weird to have such a low density/low height area right outside Downtown between 2 other districts that have highrises (Museum and TMC).

 

At the end of the day I'd like most of Midtown to look like the density/height levels of Post Midtown Square.  This goes that direction, but its not a great architectural work - at all.

 

I want a near continous cluster of density from DT to Hermann Park.  It doesn't have to take the entire width of Midtown, but the 2-3 blocks nearest Main Street should have a denser/taller aspect to them.

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Really?  I've always thought Midtown should be a bit more vertical particularly near Downtown.  No 50 floor buildings - unless something grand is proposed - but perhaps eventually we can have 8-15 floor towers throughout.  I mean, those tin-can townhomes will eventually be nasty looking and it has always looked weird to have such a low density/low height area right outside Downtown between 2 other districts that have highrises (Museum and TMC).

 

At the end of the day I'd like most of Midtown to look like the density/height levels of Post Midtown Square.  This goes that direction, but its not a great architectural work - at all.

 

I want a near continous cluster of density from DT to Hermann Park.  It doesn't have to take the entire width of Midtown, but the 2-3 blocks nearest Main Street should have a denser/taller aspect to them.

 

But isn't Post Midtown Square only 4 or 5 stories? I think this is about the highest we could hope for as an average height per block across Midtown right now. If we get much taller buildings in there then it drives up land costs and makes it hard for anything but tall buildings to go in, leaving a bunch of empty blocks like south downtown. Also tends to kill the neighborhood vibe with big shadows, parking garages, and tons of cars entering and leaving.

 

My ideal vision for Midtown would be something like Chicago's Northside (Clark, Lincoln, Wrigleyville, etc.), a sea of 5 story residential buildings with GFR on major avenues, generally brick in construction. Before anyone flames me, I realize that this is Houston, not Chicago, that we're a car-based city without a major mass transit system, that the 21st century will have 21st centure architecture and ideas, etc. :)

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What is the highrise over by Post Midtown Square?  Its 13-14 floors has a yellow-orange colored metal "awning" architectural detail at the upper floor... used to be a Post building (I thought?)

 

I'm fine with 5-8 floor buildings and maybe the occasional 15 floor building.  Again, I'm talking about the 3 or so blocks either side of Main.

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I don't see what's so bad about this.  They've masked the view of the garage pretty well along Main and it has the height aspect that everyone seems to complain about.  I'll dig it even more if they intend to provide parking to nearby retail since this area will definitely need it with all of the new developments in the works.

That being said, your arguments about making a nice looking parking garage reminds me of my time at Baylor. Behold, the Garage Mahal:

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Barf city. I really dislike it when the garage portion is almost equal the size of the occupied space. Hoping this is an early render

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I bet they've worked a plan with the church to use the parking garage for Sunday services also. Or weddings and other night time events.

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I don't see what's so bad about this. They've masked the view of the garage pretty well along Main and it has the height aspect that everyone seems to complain about. I'll dig it even more if they intend to provide parking to nearby retail since this area will definitely need it with all of the new developments in the works.

That being said, your arguments about making a nice looking parking garage reminds me of my time at Baylor. Behold, the Garage Mahal:

166962.JPG

Which arguments remind you of garage mahal?

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I bet they've worked a plan with the church to use the parking garage for Sunday services also. Or weddings and other night time events.

If I'm not mistaken, they did work out an agreement with the church, so that's probably why the garage is larger than normal. Though you'd think since it's office that the workers wouldn't be using the garage the same time as the church (Wednesday nights and Sundays?)

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Which arguments remind you of garage mahal?

Not necessarily arguments, but everyone talking about how they don't like look of the parking garage and the need to mask it all the way round.  That's exactly what Baylor did with their parking garage and they paid a lot of extra money for the aesthetics.

 

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GI-NORMOUS!  reminds me a bit of UH Downtown, or the RUSSIAN WHITE HOUSE in moscow, russia.  WOW!

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