trymahjong Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 This was posted on Neighborhood yahoo group--by a neighborhood restaurant.I don't know if I've formed an opinion yet---------I was interested in what everyone else might think. . . . . "Each week we turn away customers who don't know that the city of Houston prohibits pets outside of restaurants and bars. I realized a lot of you probably live in the area so I was hoping I could ask for your help.Patrick Walsh founded Paws On Patios, a group working to give restaurants and bars the choice to allow pets on our restaurant patios. He's made a lot of progress but we could use lots more help.We would very much like to be given the choice to allow pets. Just as we have the choice to allow smoking outside. I'd much rather have dogs than cigarettes anyway but I appreciate that the city gives us the choice to allow smoking on our patios (which we do).The Mayor has publicly given her support but it's obviously not a high priority item in this climate of budget deficits.We've met with Council Member Costello who has given us his support but we need additional support from other council members before we can get it put up for a vote.Patrick has also gotten the Health Department to draft a revised ordinance so that City Council could review the specific language needed to make this change.The city has invested so much in the new dog parks, including the latest one Downtown at Market Square Park where Niko Niko's serves food, that we believe it's a natural evolution of the city's investment in our neighborhoods to give us this choice.Several other Texas cities allow pets outside restaurants, including Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, so it makes Houston seem behind the times.How can you help? You can find Paws on Patios on Twitter at http://twitter.com/#!/pawsonpatios oron Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Paws-on-Patios/137704789609902?v=infoIf you would call or email City Council members, it really does have an impact.http://www.houstontx.gov/council/Lastly please let your other pet loving friends know that we'd like to get this rule changed in time for Houston's fantastic outdoor dining this spring." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The restaurants should decide, not the city politicos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barracuda Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I'm fine with keeping the ordinance. I have nothing against dogs, but I don't want to eat around them.There was another thread on this topic awhile back but I can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The restaurants should decide, not the city politicos.This is exactly the thing that 'politicos' should decide, not restaurant owners. I love the critters, but I don't want to have to eat with them at restaurants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 This is exactly the thing that 'politicos' should decide, not restaurant owners. I love the critters, but I don't want to have to eat with them at restaurants. Restaurant owners deciding whether allowing dogs is best for them, and patrons deciding which restaurants suit them is freedom and free markets working well together. The noise ordinance, on the other hand, is a good example of where those elected can protect all citizens as one cannot simply choose to sleep or live elsewhere as easily. And this type of freedom allows the free market to create and inovate. Imagine someone creating a restaurant near a park with a "pooch patio" with special leash post and menu items, and cute signage like, "watch your step" .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksmu Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 This is exactly the thing that 'politicos' should decide, not restaurant owners. I love the critters, but I don't want to have to eat with them at restaurants.Why should the government decide that for you? For health reasons it makes sense dogs not to be inside where their fur could make its way to the kitchen, but on a patio? Its just arrogant bureaucrats thinking they know better on everything. A restaurant should be given the choice to decide whether or not they want to allow a dog to eat on its patio...you are more than free not to eat at establishments that do allow dogs on the patio...that is your free choice. There are tens of thousands of restaurants out there that you can choose from. I am sure that a restaurant would have to pay higher insurance premiums if they allow dogs on the premises, so its unlikely that many really would, but for the ones who decide that dogs on patios is a market niche that they would like to satisfy the option should certainly be theirs. I believe that such a place on a day like yesterday when its so nice outside would have made a good deal of money with owners and their animals enjoying the weather.We have no need for rules preventing everything it absolutely should be the restaurant owners choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoustonMidtown Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 There are dogs on the patio at King Biscuit all the time....no biggee....my only issue is the owners who don't keep their dogs under control....you turn your head and your burger is gone!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 That's what it comes down to is will the owners properly control the dogs and most of them probably will, but there's always going to be those that could care less about inconveniencing others. Same with kids. Some parents just let them run wild. I'm sure you will argue that the restaurant needs to enforce proper control but to many of them prefer just to ignore the offensive behavior and avoid any confrontation. Meanwhile the customers suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Inserting my callous, obligatory remark about children in public:If I had to pick which dining experience would be more unpleasant: the patio at Lupe Tortillas on any random weekend, or any patio with dogs, Lupe Tortillas wins in a landslide.As long as dogs are leashed/tagged, I'm totally for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 This is exactly the thing that 'politicos' should decide, not restaurant owners. I love the critters, but I don't want to have to eat with them at restaurants.Then don't sit on the patio, and/or don't patronize businesses that allow pets on the patio. It's not like the dogs would be climbing up on your plate, at any rate. It's working fine in other Texas cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksmu Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Inserting my callous, obligatory remark about children in public:If I had to pick which dining experience would be more unpleasant: the patio at Lupe Tortillas on any random weekend, or any patio with dogs, Lupe Tortillas wins in a landslide.As long as dogs are leashed/tagged, I'm totally for it.But that is just it....you know exactly what the patio at Lupe Tortillas is going to be like on any random weekend....Lupe's is actively recruiting the crowd of restaurant patrons who have children and want to enjoy a dinner out. They have a playground. If you goto Lupe Tortillas and you get annoyed at the children, its your own problem...not some snotty nosed brat or the parents of the kid...you went there knowing what it was going to be like and then you got bothered. The only person to blame for that situation is you.Its the same with dogs. If they open a restaurant that does allow dogs on the patio, its posted that dogs are allowed, and then you go without a dog and sit on the patio full of dogs and your annoyed...you get what you deserve. It is not everyone else's responsibility to be sure that you get what you want out of a specific environment or restaurant. Its your decision to choose the restaurant that supplies the atmosphere you want. I am not saying that both parents and dog owners can let their animals run wild, but if you put yourself in a certain situation that has a high likelihood that your going to be annoyed, well its your own fault.My 2 second child pitch - having only had a child for 8 months....we still try to goto dinner at many places as our daughter sleeps great and seldom cries....we dont go out if she is fussy...we stay at home...if she gets fussy we leave, its really pretty simple...but if your out to dinner at 5pm at almost any restaurant you can expect to run into people with kids. They should try their best to have their children behave, but at the same time...it goes with my points above....time is equally as important as atmosphere when choosing a dinner venue. Families with children generally eat out very early....I think every restaurant universally acknowledges this fact....the 5-7 hour is generally for families...if you dont want to be disturbed by children, don't eat at restaurants that have high chairs and don't eat out early. As parents, there is only so much one can do. An 8 month old does not stop crying because its annoying another table, and a waiter can only bag up a meal and get the check so fast. Your scoffs dont help the situation....enough scoffs and I believe I would stop bagging up the food and sit back down to finish my meal while the child wails. And I mean that with no disrespect towards you Crunch...I am saying my thoughts with equal callousness knowing that not every person is a kid person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Although they are the greater health hazard, I believe that children have as much right as dogs to be in restaurants.So long as the creatures in question don't howl, excrete or run amok, they're OK by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 In cities that allow dogs on patios, leashes are required. No such luck with children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 ...So long as the creatures in question don't howl, excrete or run amok, they're OK by me. Let's face it, if someone is eating on a pooch patio, they would be aware of the possibility of Spot at the table next to them pinching one off mid-meal, as well as potential barking/fighting/sniffing/humping. I've seen worse in some bars. All part of the experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crunchtastic Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 But that is just it....you know exactly what the patio at Lupe Tortillas is going to be like on any random weekend....Lupe's is actively recruiting the crowd of restaurant patrons who have children and want to enjoy a dinner out. They have a playground. If you goto Lupe Tortillas and you get annoyed at the children, its your own problem...not some snotty nosed brat or the parents of the kid...you went there knowing what it was going to be like and then you got bothered. The only person to blame for that situation is you. exactly! Patrons vote with their wallets, and owners should have some latitude. I would not go to Lupe Tortillas for the very reasons you mentioned. Because I'm a big girl, I don't need the city council deciding for me. and I'm really not the child-hater I make myself out to be, I've been trying very hard lately to not refer to them as yard apes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Why should the government decide that for you? For health reasons it makes sense dogs not to be inside where their fur could make its way to the kitchen, but on a patio? Its just arrogant bureaucrats thinking they know better on everything. It's just big government run amok! Why, it's just like Egypt, I tell ya! [Ominously] "First they came for he Yorkies, and I didn't speak out.."That's what it comes down to is will the owners properly control the dogs and most of them probably will, but there's always going to be those that could care less about inconveniencing others. Same with kids. Some parents just let them run wild. I'm sure you will argue that the restaurant needs to enforce proper control but to many of them prefer just to ignore the offensive behavior and avoid any confrontation. Meanwhile the customers suffer.That's just the thing. You can't really rely on others to keep their pups - of either breed - under control. We all know that there will always be some total knob on the patio who will let the dog/child run wild. It never fails. Banning dogs from restaurant patios is pretty far down on my list of Things That Are Important in Life, but on the other hand it doesn't strike me as a terribly unreasonable accomodation either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdude Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Why should the government decide that for you? For health reasons it makes sense dogs not to be inside where their fur could make its way to the kitchen, but on a patio? Its just arrogant bureaucrats thinking they know better on everything. It's just big government run amok! Why, it's just like Egypt, I tell ya! [Ominously] "First they came for the Yorkies, and I didn't speak out.." That's what it comes down to is will the owners properly control the dogs and most of them probably will, but there's always going to be those that could care less about inconveniencing others. Same with kids. Some parents just let them run wild. I'm sure you will argue that the restaurant needs to enforce proper control but to many of them prefer just to ignore the offensive behavior and avoid any confrontation. Meanwhile the customers suffer. That's just the thing. You can't really rely on others to keep their pups - of either breed - under control. We all know that there will always be some total knob on the patio who will let the dog/child run wild. It never fails. Banning dogs from restaurant patios is pretty far down on my list of Things That Are Important in Life, but on the other hand it doesn't strike me as a terribly unreasonable accommodation either. It's not analogous with unruly children, since they can't really be banned. I've been trying very hard lately to not refer to them as yard apes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Chicago legalized dogs at outdoor patios a little over a year ago. At first I was against it, because the sort of people who would bring a dog to a restaurant in the neighborhood I lived in were also the sort of people who would own a pair of unruly little yip-yapping creatures.It turned out that honking taxis and passing SUVs made a lot more noise than the little dogs, so I kind of softened up on the idea.Until the day a golden retriever took a big dump under the neighboring table. Nothing ruins a date like the stench of fresh dog poop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am of the opinion that the bureaucrats should decide. This way those who don't want to eat near animals should not have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwood Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am all for well behaved, leashed dogs on restaurant patios at the restaurateur's discretion.I see this as a financial benefit to the city. I have a well behaved puppy, but after work she needs some quality time with us or she won't be such a good dog. The last thing I want to do is put her back in the crate so I can go out to eat. This either means one of two things. 1) Lots of dinners at home made with pretty much tax free groceries or 2) Dinner out with the dog, maybe even a margarita or two, all of which generates sales tax revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 A more pressing matter for me is the ordinance prohibiting food trucks from operating within 100 feet of any seating area yet requiring them to operate within 500 feet of a restroom they're authorized to have their customers use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editor Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am all for well behaved, leashed dogs on restaurant patios at the restaurateur's discretion.The problem is that the number of people who refuse to control their dogs (and children, but that's another topic) isn't insignificant. A lot of 20- and 30-somethings treat their dogs like children. It's a sign of mental illness. If everyone behaved politely and kept their cars under control, we wouldn't need rules for driving, either. But that's simply not the case.The question is, are the nuisance and health factors involved with dogs in places where food is being served and consumed enough to warrant government regulation.When I lived in Chicago, I knew a lot of people who worked in retail at the boutique level. Two or three times a day they'd have to mop up the piddle of some customer's four-footed fashion accessory dressed in tiny clothing that cost more a hundred public school lunches.[csb]Here in Seattle, (which is overrun with mentally ill 20- and 30-somethings) people take their dogs EVERYWHERE. Go into a book store, and you're likely to see more dogs than children. The same is true for most stores. People even bring their dogs into the grocery stores.It's illegal, but the store owners put up with it anyway. Why? Because not very long ago some self-important woman with a terrier in her purse was told that she couldn't bring it into a clothing store. The woman sued the store, claiming that the toy dog was a "service animal" because it provided her comfort in social settings. She won, and now the store is out of business.I've been on a couple of test juries for law firms out here. It's crazy what the average person thinks of "justice" and "law" and how it should be applied. I'm not surprised the woman was able to sue the clothing store out of business. Now a dozen people are out of work because she's not smart enough to know the difference between a dog and a child.[/csb] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skwatra Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 SF is like that, people take their dogs everywhere. I've seen them in grocery stores. Here, I take my pup to a few bar patios that I know are dog friendly and don't serve any food. I probably wouldn't take him to eat because he is a begger for food (when he calms down a bit I would like to have the option though), but would like to take him to more bars. last week, i was running him and got a call from home telling me to stop by walgreens. there was a homeless guy outside and i didn't want to tie my dog up, so i took him in. The manager said I couldn't bring him in, but I told her I had before (I actually asked once before at another Walgreens and that manager said it was fine). She let me go. though he's well behaved and harmless. I understand people have a problem, so I wouldn't fight for it. But if its patios only, and people have an option to sit somewhere else, I think we should let the restaurants decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 SF is like that, people take their dogs everywhere. I've seen them in grocery stores. Here, I take my pup to a few bar patios that I know are dog friendly and don't serve any food. I probably wouldn't take him to eat because he is a begger for food (when he calms down a bit I would like to have the option though), but would like to take him to more bars. last week, i was running him and got a call from home telling me to stop by walgreens. there was a homeless guy outside and i didn't want to tie my dog up, so i took him in. The manager said I couldn't bring him in, but I told her I had before (I actually asked once before at another Walgreens and that manager said it was fine). She let me go. though he's well behaved and harmless. I understand people have a problem, so I wouldn't fight for it. But if its patios only, and people have an option to sit somewhere else, I think we should let the restaurants decide.I think the biggest issue is people are concerned that the owners won't clean up after their dogs if they make a mess. I would imagine there is a bit of a liability issue if a dog takes a quick leak and no one is aware of it and then have someone slipping and falling.Even if management was aware of it, they'd have to do an unpleasant chore they feel they weren't obligated to do to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Animals should not be allowed in eateries. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Animals should not be allowed in eateries. Period.They aren't allowed in eateries, even in cities that allow them on the patio, except for service animals.I think the biggest issue is people are concerned that the owners won't clean up after their dogs if they make a mess. I would imagine there is a bit of a liability issue if a dog takes a quick leak and no one is aware of it and then have someone slipping and falling.Even if management was aware of it, they'd have to do an unpleasant chore they feel they weren't obligated to do to begin with.They are free to ban pets on a per-restaurant or per-pet level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 They are free to ban pets on a per-restaurant or per-pet level.St. Danes has been doing quite well for being pet friendly, if other establishments did the same, perhaps they might be successful as well.Front porch, from what i've seen is "dog tolerant", but don't know of other bars and such that are like St. Danes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbigtex56 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Animals should not be allowed in eateries. Period.Not period. Eateries are required by law to allow service animals (e.g., guide dogs.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 St. Danes has been doing quite well for being pet friendly, if other establishments did the same, perhaps they might be successful as well.Front porch, from what i've seen is "dog tolerant", but don't know of other bars and such that are like St. Danes.Yes, the problem is that what they are doing is illegal. Flying Saucer is pet-friendly as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Then they should not be allowed on the patios of eateries. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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