The Allen: Mixed-Use Development At Allen Parkway & Gillette St.

[cityliving]

Pavilion roof assembly.

Edited September 14, 2020 by cityliving

[mls1202]

I'm sure this is going to have a best-in-class view of downtown, but man...nothing says "look at me in my ivory tower" than hanging out at your luxury pool while looking across the rooftops of a government-subsidized project...

Edited September 15, 2020 by mls1202

[Texasota]

That's better than pushing affordable housing out into the middle of nowhere though. I'd rather see affordable housing next door to luxury towers. Besides, there are plenty of market-rate two and three story townhouses in the immediate area as well. 

[thatguysly]

That area is historically important. It shouldn't be moved or discounted because the ultra rich moved in. They can coexist. The City does need to go in a repair some the apartments but they do look much better than they did 10 years ago.

[mls1202]

40 minutes ago, Texasota said:

That's better than pushing affordable housing out into the middle of nowhere though. I'd rather see affordable housing next door to luxury towers. Besides, there are plenty of market-rate two and three story townhouses in the immediate area as well. 

I'm actually all in favor of mixed-income development, but I would prefer to see them more integrated.  The way these developments (i.e. ROD, The Allen, Regent Square, etc) are created, they exist as mini-cities unto themselves with boundaries that often ignore the neighborhood around them. There is nothing that ties The Allen into the apartments next door, not even an entrance on the east side (at least from what I can tell).

 

 

[Texasota]

I completely agree, but that's even more of a problem with Alley Parkway Village (the affordable housing). It's completely fenced with very few entrances. 

 

 

[mls1202]

Went down the Google-hole on Allen Parkway Village and discovered that this area used to be Houston's official red-light district--The Reservation!

 

 

[H-Town Man]

6 hours ago, mls1202 said:

The way these developments (i.e. ROD, The Allen, Regent Square, etc) are created, they exist as mini-cities unto themselves with boundaries that often ignore the neighborhood around them.

 

Drive-to urbanism. The hope for urbanism in Houston is in downtown, midtown, maybe EaDo. Everything else is going to be a stretch.

 

[clutchcity94]

4 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Drive-to urbanism. The hope for urbanism in Houston is in downtown, midtown, maybe EaDo. Everything else is going to be a stretch.

 

montrose?

[Texasota]

I actually don't agree on Regent Square. Given its location, it will be pretty easily walkable and bikeable. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than most examples of "drive-to urbanism" simply by virtue of being next to an existing, relatively dense neighborhood. Its major streets are W Dallas and Dunlavy! 

 

Even the Allen isn't so bad- its biggest problem is that the surrounding developments aren't very porous, but its proximity to Buffalo Bayou Park, the (hopefully soon-to-be built) bike lanes on Dallas, high frequency bus line on Dallas, and Midtown and Montrose, it's really not that isolated. 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Texasota

[H-Town Man]

9 hours ago, clutchcity94 said:

montrose?

 

Possible but a stretch. Not a real street grid, most housing single-family. Montrose Boulevard still mostly lined with inactive properties. 

 

[H-Town Man]

15 minutes ago, Texasota said:

I actually don't agree on Regent Square. Given its location, it will be pretty easily walkable and bikeable. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than most examples of "drive-to urbanism" simply by virtue of being next to an existing, relatively dense neighborhood. Its major streets are W Dallas and Dunlavy! 

 

Even the Allen isn't so bad- its biggest problem is that the surrounding developments aren't very porous, but its proximity to Buffalo Bayou Park, the (hopefully soon-to-be built) bike lanes on Dallas, high frequency bus line on Dallas, and Midtown and Montrose, it's really not that isolated. 

 

 

These aren't bad developments. I think of urbanism as, you can perform your errands on foot and don't really need a car. That won't be possible from the Allen for a very long time, with the exception of walking to the park. Nor will hardly anyone else be walking to the Allen. Not that it's the Allen's fault, just the nature of the area. In downtown and midtown, such a lifestyle is foreseeable.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by H-Town Man

[clutchcity94]

1 hour ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Possible but a stretch. Not a real street grid, most housing single-family. Montrose Boulevard still mostly lined with inactive properties. 

 

That’s true. Why do you think so many of the properties on Montrose Blvd are inactive? I’ve noticed the same thing.

[Texasota]

Montrose is not a real street grid? What? I agree that Montrose BLVD needs a lot of help, but, as someone who has lived on both sides, I guarantee you can (and I have!) live easily without a car.

 

I also think you're just stating things as fact with pretty minimal evidence. You might be right that people living AT the Allen will usually drive everywhere, but, since it will also have retail, I do think people from surrounding neighborhoods will walk or bike there.

 

You're ignoring cycling access, which is a major factor for both Montrose and the Heights. 

 

I also don't agree that single family neighborhoods automatically = "not urban". Townhouse/rowhouse neighborhoods are the obvious example, but even traditional Montrose neighborhoods are more complicated than you imply. Montrose is full of duplexes, triplexes, small apartment buildings, garage apartments etc. When I lived on Kipling, it appeared from the street as a detached single family home on a large lot, but it was in fact a duplex with a garage apartment with three units.

 

It may not always look it, but Montrose is actually one of the neighborhoods I've lived in where having a car was least necessary. It's really only necessary for leaving the neighborhood, and even then, having a bike makes a lot of places easily accessible.  

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

Montrose is not a real street grid? What? I agree that Montrose BLVD needs a lot of help, but, as someone who has lived on both sides, I guarantee you can (and I have!) live easily without a car.

 

I also think you're just stating things as fact with pretty minimal evidence. You might be right that people living AT the Allen will usually drive everywhere, but, since it will also have retail, I do think people from surrounding neighborhoods will walk or bike there.

 

You're ignoring cycling access, which is a major factor for both Montrose and the Heights. 

 

I also don't agree that single family neighborhoods automatically = "not urban". Townhouse/rowhouse neighborhoods are the obvious example, but even traditional Montrose neighborhoods are more complicated than you imply. Montrose is full of duplexes, triplexes, small apartment buildings, garage apartments etc. When I lived on Kipling, it appeared from the street as a detached single family home on a large lot, but it was in fact a duplex with a garage apartment with three units.

 

It may not always look it, but Montrose is actually one of the neighborhoods I've lived in where having a car was least necessary. It's really only necessary for leaving the neighborhood, and even then, having a bike makes a lot of places easily accessible.  

 

Calm down. Montrose is a great neighborhood, I just don't view it as urban. You're welcome to disagree. Maybe you're right. In fact, I'd be happy if you were right. I don't care that much.

 

[samagon]

4 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Possible but a stretch. Not a real street grid, most housing single-family. Montrose Boulevard still mostly lined with inactive properties. 

 

 

as much a street grid as anywhere in this town, and more walk-able than most.

 

  

18 hours ago, H-Town Man said:

 

Drive-to urbanism. The hope for urbanism in Houston is in downtown, midtown, maybe EaDo. Everything else is going to be a stretch.

 

 

add heights, the odd area between midtown and the museum district, rice village area as areas that can become this.

 

pretty much all of Houston that was built prior to the early/mid 60s is a full on street grid, and depending on how spicy developers get, they can very easily morph into urban areas. 

 

a lot of what is making midtown what it is is because of the light rail, it's not a stretch to assume that the other light rail corridors will be well along the similar path towards urban areas within 15 or so years, Harrisburg will probably lead this charge, as you mention, EaDo is already moving down that path.

Edited September 16, 2020 by samagon

[clutchcity94]

26 minutes ago, samagon said:

 

as much a street grid as anywhere in this town, and more walk-able than most.

 

  

 

add heights, the odd area between midtown and the museum district, rice village area as areas that can become this.

 

pretty much all of Houston that was built prior to the early/mid 60s is a full on street grid, and depending on how spicy developers get, they can very easily morph into urban areas. 

 

a lot of what is making midtown what it is is because of the light rail, it's not a stretch to assume that the other light rail corridors will be well along the similar path towards urban areas within 15 or so years, Harrisburg will probably lead this charge, as you mention, EaDo is already moving down that path.

what’s the odd area between midtown and the museum district? I’m trying to picture it.

[samagon]

3 minutes ago, clutchcity94 said:

what’s the odd area between midtown and the museum district? I’m trying to picture it.

the area just south of 59. honestly, it may be considered as the museum district, but I don't really think of anything north of Southmore as being museum district.

[clutchcity94]

4 minutes ago, samagon said:

the area just south of 59. honestly, it may be considered as the museum district, but I don't really think of anything north of Southmore as being museum district.

Museum Park 

[urbanize713]

 

Just now, clutchcity94 said:

Museum Park 

It is clearly MidMuse, duh.

 

(sarcasm) 

[BeerNut]

29 minutes ago, samagon said:

a lot of what is making midtown what it is is because of the light rail, it's not a stretch to assume that the other light rail corridors will be well along the similar path towards urban areas within 15 or so years, Harrisburg will probably lead this charge, as you mention, EaDo is already moving down that path.

 

And this is why University line being BRT is disappointing...  Everyone knows LRT attracts better development but the cost to build is higher than it should be.

13 minutes ago, clutchcity94 said:

what’s the odd area between midtown and the museum district? I’m trying to picture it.

 

It's forever Third Ward...well according to some people on the internet.

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, samagon said:

 

as much a street grid as anywhere in this town, and more walk-able than most.

 

  

 

add heights, the odd area between midtown and the museum district, rice village area as areas that can become this.

 

pretty much all of Houston that was built prior to the early/mid 60s is a full on street grid, and depending on how spicy developers get, they can very easily morph into urban areas. 

 

a lot of what is making midtown what it is is because of the light rail, it's not a stretch to assume that the other light rail corridors will be well along the similar path towards urban areas within 15 or so years, Harrisburg will probably lead this charge, as you mention, EaDo is already moving down that path.

 

I probably should have clarified, when I said it wasn't a "real" street grid, that although the streets may be gridded, there's a hierarchy of uses where commercial uses are almost exclusively located on the major thoroughfares, with residential uses elsewhere. This is the "commercial spine" model of development that characterizes most suburbs in the world. As opposed to the more egalitarian use pattern of downtown and midtown, where any use can be on any street. The neighborhood I grew up in in Spring had a street grid, but not one in the urban sense.

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by H-Town Man

[Texasota]

I don't really think it's useful to use "urban" as a shorthand at this point; it has too broad a range of meanings. 

 

In terms of a hierarchy of uses, Montrose is actually pretty close to a traditional urban neighborhood, with most retail on major corridors and a few minor examples scattered around (particularly at intersections.) I am genuinely curious how you would interpret neighborhoods with a similar hierarchy in more conventionally "urban" cities, like most rowhouse neighborhoods in DC, Philadelphia, etc. Are Fishtown or Capital Hill not "urban" because they have a hierarchy of uses?

 

Your definition really only applies to narrow sections of most cities - Center City Philly (narrowly defined), Downtown DC (which has relatively little residential).

 

One of the big differences in post-war American suburbs is that the number of commercial corridors is far fewer. Montrose is what, maybe two miles between the bayou and 59? Over that distance, you have the following east-west commercial corridors:

• W Dallas
• W Gray
• Fairview (off and on)
• Westheimer
• W Alabama
• Richmond

So yes, concentration on corridors, but at least one corridor is always less than a 5 minute walk away. 

 

As opposed to, for example, Cypress Creek Parkway. The nearest parallel commercial corridor is miles away for much of its length. Plus, even just *crossing* Cypress Creek Parkway is a nightmare compared to Westheimer or even Richmond. 

 

 

[H-Town Man]

1 hour ago, Texasota said:

I am genuinely curious how you would interpret neighborhoods with a similar hierarchy in more conventionally "urban" cities, like most rowhouse neighborhoods in DC, Philadelphia, etc. Are Fishtown or Capital Hill not "urban" because they have a hierarchy of uses?

 

 

Semi-urban, which is different from suburban. Urban usually means lots of people walking around. In those neighborhoods, there's only lots of people walking on the major thoroughfares. The residential streets just have the stray walker going to or from the thoroughfares.

 

The French Quarter is urban, the Garden District is semi-urban.

 

[cityliving]

Big concrete pour happening this morning, three concrete pumps at site.

[hindesky]

[cityliving]

Edited September 20, 2020 by cityliving

[Highrise Tower]

Photos from the Argos & TAS concrete pour today.

 

 

 

 

[Highrise Tower]

 

 

[cityliving]

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by cityliving