What Direction Is Midtown Going?

[MidtownCoog]

The 60s? This native will need to see that in print to belive it.

I know way too many natives who never called it Midtown. Ever.

[Guest Marty]

In my 1986 (28th edition) Key Map, Midtown was at the Elgin @ Main area.

[MidtownCoog]

So I guess we figured out the problem with "Midtown".

The name.

[RedScare]

My dad worked at the old Southwestern Bell building at Elgin and Main from 1976 through the 80s. It was known as Little Saigon back then. Around 1980, I worked for a steel construction company on Oak Place. It was definitely known as 4th Ward.

[dbigtex56]

Speaking of new neighborhood names like "Midtown," isn't "Freedman's Town" also of new vintage? I never remember hearing it called anything but the Fourth Ward until maybe 10 years ago.

If you consider the 1860s "new vintage, then yes.

http://www.houstonprogressive.org/FTAbrief.html

The Fourth Ward may have been known as Freeman's Town many years ago, but I'm with Subdude - the name wasn't revived into popular usage until 10-15 years ago.

[KinkaidAlum]

In the late 80s, my friends and I called it Midtown. We liked Red Square!

[Guest Marty]

Around 1980, I worked for a steel construction company on Oak Place. It was definitely known as 4th Ward.

In this map book Fourth Ward was at Matthews @ Andrews street area.

[RedScare]

The wards are not an intersection. They were the political boundaries of council districts in early Houston. The 4th Ward encompassed that area from approximately Buffalo Bayou south and around to Main Street. It included the intersection of Matthews and Andrews Streets, as well as Oak Place and what is now considered the northwest quadrant of Midtown. While Midtown may have been printed on a map, and occasionally used by customers at Red Square (nice name!), the western side up to and including Allen Parkway Village was universally known as 4th Ward...and known as an extraordinarily dangerous area. Around Main Street, it was generally called Little Saigon. Closer to US 59, it was known as 3rd Ward.

It is important to remember that this area, up until the late 90s, was an exceedingly depressed area with no publicity...unless it was bad. There was no effort to unify the area under some common descriptive name. While certain small groups may have called it Midtown, it was unknown to the larger populace, who frankly did not care. It was not until the late 90s, as gentrification of the area took hold, that publication of the moniker of Midtown became common enough for the name to supplant the older names and stick. The local media only refered to the area when reporting the latest crack related homicide, and used the Ward designations until the Midtown TIRZ and redevelopment generated enough publicity to change the nomenclature.

[Guest Marty]

I was going by were the name was printed on the map, thanks for the info.

[bachanon]

i didn't hear the area called "midtown" until the TIRZ was created. although i frequented numbers, red square, vietnamese restaurants, rich's and hebert's (pronounced hay-bear's), no one i knew called it midtown. we did know the smaller area with many vietnamese businesses as little saigon though.

[MidtownCoog]

My wife and I had a Towne Car driver who would take us back and forth to the airport back during the .com boom.

First time he came to pick her up he told her "we never called this place Midtown".

And he's from Third Ward. Cool dude. He said it was just "Third Ward".

[WesternGulf]

If Washington Ave. is "special" then Houston truly is a dump!

Count me in for those who do not see the attraction of washington.

[ricco67]

Well I lived here all my life, and I have to agree with coog. As far as I know, midtown only came into being in the last 10-15 years and I also frequented the area in my disturbed youth.

I think if someone comes up with a few maps of various areas this would end this argument. Maybe we can see what neighborhood Fire station #7 served? It's still standing at it's original location.

[sowanome]

Count me in for those who do not see the attraction of washington.

Your hostility for Washington avenue is because you fail to see what's really in the area. Have you driven on and between Memorial and Washington Avenue from Studemont/Montrose to Westcott. If so you will see how the beauty of Memorial road is driving the growth of this area. For Example, majority of the apartments along Memorial are very upscale/expensive(Bayou on the Bend, Memorial Tower, Left Bank at River Oaks etc), and a few blocks south of Washington. If you take a ride and look west of Westcott or Along Memorial Road, you will see for yourself. Midtown has nothing similar to this. I guess you and everyone else who doesn't understand Washington avenue, fail to understand the economics of the area. however, I will agree that Washington Avenue as "A Street " has a few years to go (less than 3 yrs.), but trust me you will not recognize the street 5 to 6 years from now!

[Jax]

I've driven along Washington and I've never been terribly excited about it. There are a lot of apartments going up and some bars, but it just doesn't seem that exciting to me. Maybe it's just too far away from where I live or something. I've never had a chance to check out the night life there so maybe I'm just missing out. It just seems too spread out or something. It doesn't seem that walkable which makes it a bit less appealing to me, but maybe I just don't know the area well enough.

Maybe somebody could post some photos of the Washington Ave area to give those of us who don't live around there better idea of what's going on...

[sowanome]

I've driven along Washington and I've never been terribly excited about it. There are a lot of apartments going up and some bars, but it just doesn't seem that exciting to me. Maybe it's just too far away from where I live or something. I've never had a chance to check out the night life there so maybe I'm just missing out. It just seems too spread out or something. It doesn't seem that walkable which makes it a bit less appealing to me, but maybe I just don't know the area well enough.

Maybe somebody could post some photos of the Washington Ave area to give those of us who don't live around there better idea of what's going on...

I will try to find pictures of the area, and I want to point out that Memorial Road from Memorial Park to Studemont is The backbone of this area! There is no other area in houston like this area and that's why there's so much development and money pouring Into the area. Just go see for yourself

[rps324]

Your hostility for Washington avenue is because you fail to see what's really in the area. Have you driven on and between Memorial and Washington Avenue from Studemont/Montrose to Westcott. If so you will see how the beauty of Memorial road is driving the growth of this area. For Example, majority of the apartments along Memorial are very upscale/expensive(Bayou on the Bend, Memorial Tower, Left Bank at River Oaks etc), and a few blocks south of Washington. If you take a ride and look west of Westcott or Along Memorial Road, you will see for yourself. Midtown has nothing similar to this. I guess you and everyone else who doesn't understand Washington avenue, fail to understand the economics of the area. however, I will agree that Washington Avenue as "A Street " has a few years to go (less than 3 yrs.), but trust me you will not recognize the street 5 to 6 years from now!

Memorial is an attractive enough drive, and the sections of Camp Logan on the east side of Memorial park is more attractive than most redeveloped areas since it has alley ways (garages face the rear of a lot of the townhomes) that allows you to see more than just blocks of garage doors. Most of the townhome development between midtown and the greater Rice-Military area really isn't all that terribly different. In the Washington Avenue corridor you can walk to the park if you live in the far west fringes, or possibly south to the trails by the bayou. In midtown you aren't that far from Hermann Park and you can walk to more nightlife. If you are throwing in the stuff on the western fringes of the Washington corridor then yes, Midtown doesn't have anything like that on it's western fringes, but it does have Montrose (Cortlandt Place, Westmoreland, etc) on its western fringes. which is very different from anything in the Washington corridor. Washington has the bayou park/trail space, midtown has the rail. Each has its assets and detractions, but in the townhome and retail categories I don't know that one can claim superiority over the other IMO.

[Subdude]

Although Midtown (and Freedman's Town) just became generally used in the last decade, I think it is interesting that Marty found the name on a 1986 map. Even though it didn't catch on until creation of the TIRZ, it makes sense that the Midtown name would have been coined during the time when the Medical Center was Uptown, so Midtown was between downtown and uptown. I have seen ads from the 1960s for businesses that were still referring to the area as South End.

"Freedman's Town" I think was just revived in an attempt to give the Fourth Ward some historical cachet, but I think almost everyone still calls it Fourth Ward.

[Guest Marty]

According to the 28th edition/1986 Key Map, Midtown stretch from Webster to Wheeler north/south and to Chenevert to Bagby from the east/west.

[Subdude]

One other thing. On Westheimer/Elgin at around Brazos is a Montrose "gateway" monument that consists of three Ms. The Ms stand for Montrose, Midtown, and Museum District, the three closest neighborhoods. If I'm correct, and judging by the style and the original peach color, the monument dates from the late 1980s. That would indicate that by the time it was built the term Midtown was already commonly being used for the neighborhood. The TIRZ came along a few years later in the 1990s.

[Guest Marty]

Looking at the map, it only shows Westmoreland then Avondale just north of that with Fourth Ward due north, Montrose is west of Westmoreland/Avondale

[MidtownCoog]

The gateway. Wow. I never knew what that fugly thing was.

We could use a benefactor to recommission it and make it grand.

That would be a good use of Midtown TIRZ funds vs. more bum-benches and fancy lamp posts.

[RedScare]

Although Midtown (and Freedman's Town) just became generally used in the last decade, I think it is interesting that Marty found the name on a 1986 map. Even though it didn't catch on until creation of the TIRZ, it makes sense that the Midtown name would have been coined during the time when the Medical Center was Uptown, so Midtown was between downtown and uptown. I have seen ads from the 1960s for businesses that were still referring to the area as South End.

"Freedman's Town" I think was just revived in an attempt to give the Fourth Ward some historical cachet, but I think almost everyone still calls it Fourth Ward.

I agree that the 1986 Midtown reference is interesting, considering no one called it that. To be blunt, I believe Freedman's Town was revived in a futile attempt to slow or modify the gentrification of the 4th Ward, pointing out its historical significance. No one need point out the folly of using history to stand in front of Houston development. The difference here though, is that Freedmean's Town IS the original name of the area, later supplanted by 4th Ward, whereas Midtown was coined to rename an area, even if there is evidence that the renaming may have occurred up to 30 years ago. For that matter, Neartown is a recent concoction as well, coined to identify those neighborhoods from Downtown to the Med Center, but encompassing areas west of Midtown also.

Agree with Coog....that thing is Fugly.

[Mr. Chenevert]

One other thing. On Westheimer/Elgin at around Brazos is a Montrose "gateway" monument that consists of three Ms. The Ms stand for Montrose, Midtown, and Museum District, the three closest neighborhoods. If I'm correct, and judging by the style and the original peach color, the monument dates from the late 1980s. That would indicate that by the time it was built the term Midtown was already commonly being used for the neighborhood. The TIRZ came along a few years later in the 1990s.

You could be correct, but may I ask how in the world you assume that the three M's stand for Montrose, Midtown, and Museum District?

[Jeebus]

You could be correct, but may I ask how in the world you assume that the three M's stand for Montrose, Midtown, and Museum District?

What else could 3 M's stand for at that location? I only recognized 1 "M" and just figured that it was signifying the entrance to Montrose.

[Mr. Chenevert]

What else could 3 M's stand for at that location? I only recognized 1 "M" and just figured that it was signifying the entrance to Montrose.

I would assume that all of the M's stand for Montrose since its the entrance to Montrose from the east.

[MidtownCoog]

Speaking of Museum District gateways: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...ro/5163169.html

We've coverd this in another thread, but I never thought it would be sold as a "gateway".

[Vertigo58]

Count me in for those who do not see the attraction of washington.

Washington Ave. As ugly as it gets. Right on!

and no one ever called that other area Midtown until of recent. I guess its easier for the "Darma & Greg" and "Friends" yuppie-type's to refer it to.

Corny name but seems we are stuck with it. Developers wanted it to have a SOHO ambiance or tone/feel about it. Chandler/Joey would feel at home.

[WesternGulf]

Your hostility for Washington avenue is because you fail to see what's really in the area. Have you driven on and between Memorial and Washington Avenue from Studemont/Montrose to Westcott. If so you will see how the beauty of Memorial road is driving the growth of this area. For Example, majority of the apartments along Memorial are very upscale/expensive(Bayou on the Bend, Memorial Tower, Left Bank at River Oaks etc), and a few blocks south of Washington. If you take a ride and look west of Westcott or Along Memorial Road, you will see for yourself. Midtown has nothing similar to this. I guess you and everyone else who doesn't understand Washington avenue, fail to understand the economics of the area. however, I will agree that Washington Avenue as "A Street " has a few years to go (less than 3 yrs.), but trust me you will not recognize the street 5 to 6 years from now!

I've noticed the few townhome projects going up on Washington or atleast on the side and back streets of Washington. I have seen some of the buildings outside of the Sixth Ward that have been restored to house bars and antique shops and galleries, I have seen the attempt at mixed use at the Washington Place Lofts and the things that are not bragworthy such as the townhome community with private streets at Studemont and Washington. Just like most commercial streets in Houston the positive things are not too consistent and are surrounded by vacant lots, parking lots for automotive services, and strip malls. I'll admit, I have not been far west of Washington, but the name of the apartment communites sounds like I am not missing anything that I can find in most places touching the west loop.

[sowanome]

[quote name='WesternGulf' date='Tuesday, September 25th, 2007 @ 3:14pm' post='200863']

I've noticed the few townhome projects going up on Washington or atleast on the side and back streets of Washington. I have seen some of the buildings outside of the Sixth Ward that have been restored to house bars and antique shops and galleries, I have seen the attempt at mixed use at the Washington Place Lofts and the things that are not bragworthy such as the townhome community with private streets at Studemont and Washington. Just like most commercial streets in Houston the positive things are not too consistent and are surrounded by vacant lots, parking lots for automotive services, and strip malls. I'll admit, I have not been far west of Washington, but the name of the apartment communites sounds like I am not missing anything that I can find in most places touching the west loop.

[/quot

My Response (to the non-believers of economics): I will once again say that as a street "Washington Avenue" has a way to go. However, if you want to see a developed area that is encouraging the growth of Wash. Avenue, drive down Memorial Road (which is the southern border of the Washington area), between Memorial Park and Studemont! This is the location of single family homes priced well over the $2 million, townhomes priced over $800K (They are selling too!). Not to mention a five minute ride to downtown and 7 minute ride to the Galleria area. It's funny b/c most houstonians, like yourself, are so conservative and scared of change that they will not listen to others from developed urban areas Like Chicago or the upper east coast, until the entire project looks is complete or nearly finished. Then they say, "Oh this is a nice area, I wish I would have bought something here when things were cheaper!" Think about this for a second, developed businesses will not throw millions into an area if the area was not attached to something tangible, as in a developed residential market (Camp Logan, River Oaks, Crestwood) and they thought if would stay the same. To be honest, I while living in various cities I appreciated townhomes and private balconies, but it just seems that everything is BIGGER In Texas, a phrase that applies to peoples wants and dreams. If you want everything BIG, go out to the those suburbs beyond Beltway 8, b/c You will pay for it inside the Loop! Included some listings just to Show you what you fail to see! I also included a possible tear down at the end!

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Enough Said!