bachanon Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Gays are still people, so they should have the same rights. That is one thing I agree with. If I had a son who was gay, and he could not marry because he was gay, I wouldn't be too happy. It's almost like Black people not being able to vote (not too long ago). being as the word marriage is so closely tied to a man/woman relationship and tightly knit to judeo/christian ideology and history, i can't understand why the gay community doesn't embrace "civil unions" as long as these unions carry the same benefits. although, i'm aware that the word marriage is not hetero specific, i cannot understand why a different term wouldn't be more palatable for political success on this issue. i mean, really, unless you're the type of guy who's dreamed of being a blushing bride, i can't understand the need to require gay "marriage". no offense to you blushing bride boys out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trae Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 being as the word marriage is so closely tied to a man/woman relationship and tightly knit to judeo/christian ideology and history, i can't understand why the gay community doesn't embrace "civil unions" as long as these unions carry the same benefits. although, i'm aware that the word marriage is not hetero specific, i cannot understand why a different term wouldn't be more palatable for political success on this issue. i mean, really, unless you're the type of guy who's dreamed of being a blushing bride, i can't understand the need to require gay "marriage". no offense to you blushing bride boys out there. I agree, but they should still have the same rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 the apostle paul said it best: "all things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable." this idea is based in the christian tenet of god's forgiveness. god will forgive me of anything/i can do anything i want, yet i will not profit from certain activities. this is a very human condition and not specifically owned by the christian faith.This statement couldn't be further from the truth and is totally taken out of context.These verses, in context, come before this passage:1 Cor. 10:7 "Do not be idolatars as some of them were..." v. 8 "Nor let us act immorally"v. 9 "Nor Grumble"The Bible does not teach you can do anything you want. Of course you can, but there is judgment for those who do...unless they repent (which means turn away) and do things in obedience to God.1 Cor. 10:18-31And then read the the verse in it's context:18 Look at the nation Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices (this is the subject of this section) sharers in the altar? 19 What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we? 23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor. 25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake; (emphasis mine)26 FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS. 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake. (emphasis mine)28 But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; (emphasis mine) (this is the whole reason he said all things are lawful for me but not all things are profitable. He could eat of the meat if he wanted, but it's not profitable because he would hurt the conscience of the other man; which it says in the very next verse)29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's;(emphasis mine) for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience? 30If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks? 31Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. The Bible is taken out of context more than any other book. ===========Paul also says this in Romans 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, (emphasis mine) 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 6 (the very next verses)1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (emphasis mine)Sin is not ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I've always wondered why 'Christians' (and yes MANY) Americans are so afraid of EVERYTHING. America --and by extension Americans-- seems to be so fearful of ... life. The Chinese, illegal immigrants, 'minorities' in their neighborhods and schools, gays, the Taliban ... we're seem to just be a nation, increasingly, of everything we don't understand or don't wish to accept as 'life'.Be careful of lumping all Christians together. Many "Christians" don't have a correct understanding of the Bible and therefore don't live it out correctly. And lets not forget, even Christians are sinners, saved by grace, not by works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Oh yeah ... and did you see the cost? $8,000+ No thanks!every response i can think of here has a sexual connotation so i'll remain silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 our "fear of the world" can also be summed up in one word........"fallible". we are all fallible and cannot control the world around us. with all of our wealth, we like to think we control our own personal universe. we do not. we cannot. bad things happen to good people. that's life. hopefully everyone will be thinking about this. Very heavy bachanon!Just seems like we're just a xenophobic and scared group of people. And to be afraid of each other when we call ourselves Americans ... just doesn't make sense.i'm not sure if scared is the word i'd use here but can't offer up another. for me personally, if i lived in fear, i sure would miss out on many wonderful things everyday. life is too short to miss out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Actually, Musicman I am not all that concerned with your problem. And no, it wasn't clear to me what you were griping about all night. Maybe I brought it upon myself, but your personal attack at me for my silly, insensitive joke got my attention so I thought it deserved a counter attack. It's not like someone died or anything and it's certainly nothing I can't handle. But you can't honestly expect a person not to react negitively or sarcastically when they here that old tired cliche that you used. Obviously, I struck a nerve or you wouldn't have responded at all. Maybe I offended you on behalf of my "stupid kids" remark or maybe you were sticking up for "intolerant adults". Sounded like you had some kind of problem with what I said, but I'm glad to hear it's not with gay marriage for what it's worth. all i said was i had no problem with people getting married at Disneyland. if someone wants to pay 8000 to do it, more power to em! i'll be a groomsman for the cost of a tux or i can wear my smoking jacket. It seems many on this board take every opportunity to chastise religion as intolerant and hateful while in the same sentence blasting anyone who is religious without a second thought. That my friends is being a hypocrite.Not all Christians or religious people hate gays or are hateful people. Quite the opposite. We are loving people who are very accepting of all people with a simple desire that all could find Jesus. We may not all support homosexuality, abortion, etc. but we don't hate those people who do. We accept them without judgement. I'm sorry so many of you don't look for, or accept, these people and instead prefer to blast all of us as if we are one huge racist, gay bashing cult. There is nothing further from the truth. Hopefully this hasn't offended anyone, I just felt some eyes needed to be opened on this thread and many others that I've read recently. great post pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I saw these ministers on television the other day (I forget what channel) but it was a female minister (in Dallas I think) with a largely gay congregation, and a male minister who feels gays are an abomination and calls it like he sees it. He came off as a bigoted homphobic idiot while she came off as compassionate and caring for ALL of God's people --whether humans accept it or not. Now, if he is typical of 'the church' (and from the media portrayal of the religious-right it seems to be) no wonder gays and other ostracized communities feel threatened and distanced from 'the church'.there are numerous churches and numerous denominations. i'm sure you'll find one that you can see eye to eye with. but if you go to the same one, you'll never broaded your horizons. i'm catholic however there are certain catholic churches that i won't go to because i don't like the priest or what he has to say. and there are many others that i do enjoy going to. you have to go where you feel comfortable.My point is we see alot of unwarrented demonizing by loud mouth "christian" leaders but not so much oppostition from the mainstream.just as there is by loud mouthed gays towards christians. it is always the minority that ruins it for most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bachanon Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 This statement couldn't be further from the truth and is totally taken out of context.These verses, in context, come before this passage:1 Cor. 10:7 "Do not be idolatars as some of them were..." v. 8 "Nor let us act immorally"v. 9 "Nor Grumble"The Bible does not teach you can do anything you want. Of course you can, but there is judgment for those who do...unless they repent (which means turn away) and do things in obedience to God.1 Cor. 10:18-31And then read the the verse in it's context:18 Look at the nation Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices (this is the subject of this section) sharers in the altar? 19 What do I mean then? That a thing sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22 Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than He, are we? 23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable All things are lawful, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor. 25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience' sake; (emphasis mine)26 FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS. 27 If one of the unbelievers invites you and you want to go, eat anything that is set before you without asking questions for conscience' sake. (emphasis mine)28 But if anyone says to you, "This is meat sacrificed to idols," do not eat it, for the sake of the one who informed you, and for conscience' sake; (emphasis mine) (this is the whole reason he said all things are lawful for me but not all things are profitable. He could eat of the meat if he wanted, but it's not profitable because he would hurt the conscience of the other man; which it says in the very next verse)29 I mean not your own conscience, but the other man's;(emphasis mine) for why is my freedom judged by another's conscience? 30If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks? 31Whether, then, you eat or drink or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. The Bible is taken out of context more than any other book. ===========Paul also says this in Romans 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, (emphasis mine) 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 6 (the very next verses)1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? (emphasis mine)Sin is not ok.i never intended to say that sin is ok. i stand corrected on the context of the verse. imo, paul's statements can be extrapolated to other issues. the words i chose miscommunicated the spirit of my post. i wanted to express the nature of free will in relation to forgiveness, while maintaining/developing a good conscience. i can choose to do anything i want. however, my conscience will not allow me to choose ungodly or unproductive choices. when i do make selfish or ignorant choices, i may or may not pay the price in this life, but i can have faith that i will be forgiven. my intention was to identify the needlessness of parents fears when their children see openly gay couples. it's an opportunity to communicate. i believe that kids will make good choices given the opportunity. now, before someone assumes i'm talking about a choice to be gay, i'm not. i'm talking about allowing children the opportunity to become mature, well mannered, kind and so on, rather than hiding them from certain realities.lockmat has reminded me the value of revisiting scriptures i haven't read for awhile. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmat Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 it is always the minority that ruins it for most.exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I bet if your animal had died from tainted food, you'd be scared also macbro. That dogfood scare isn't a laughing matter. You are better than that, at least I thought you were. They still haven't found out who, how, or why someone would do that to defenseless animals. I have some speculations, that it wasn't an attack on animals just to be evil and hurt animals, it was an experiment to see how easy a food source could be poisoned. My big question is WhyTF are we importing wheat ANYTHING. We are the world's largest supplier of it, that is absolutely the last resource that we need to import. It just doesn't make any sense.Sorry, I am hijacking !Back on Topic. Nmain, I am a very religious person, very Christian, but I do not practice in a church, just part of MY belief system. You know where I stand WITH YOU on the whole gay thing. I don't mind at all what Disney wants to do with THEIR business, it is their's, they can do as they please, they have the right to refuse or give service to whomever they wish. You can make some of the people happy all of the time, and you can make all of the people happy some of the time, but it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time.I do have a dog that I am very fond of (love her?) and was (am) concerned about the pet food scare, but in the big scheme of things, I am more concerned about what's in my food. Heck, just a few months back it was the e-coli in Spinach, in peanut butter, etc.Sorry if that sounds callous or unfazed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 there are numerous churches and numerous denominations. i'm sure you'll find one that you can see eye to eye with. but if you go to the same one, you'll never broaded your horizons. i'm catholic however there are certain catholic churches that i won't go to because i don't like the priest or what he has to say. and there are many others that i do enjoy going to. you have to go where you feel comfortable.just as there is by loud mouthed gays towards christians. it is always the minority that ruins it for most.I have been to a lot of churches, but that doesn't mean I'll stay if I feel threatened, humiliated, or made to feel ashamed for something I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I didn't know gay marriage was legal in Florida? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montrose1100 Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Disney is losing money, so QUICKLY! Rake in as many gay people as possible!!! They're the only ones childish and dumb enough to waste money there!! eeeee!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I have been to a lot of churches, but that doesn't mean I'll stay if I feel threatened, humiliated, or made to feel ashamed for something I am.that's my point. move on and find somewhere where you do feel comfortable. it should be an uplifting experience not one that makes you feel anger, shame, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Not all Christians or religious people hate gays or are hateful people.No, just the ones with the biggest mouths. Christians would do well to yank the microphones and TV cameras from those who spew hatred in the name of Christianity. These people are not Christians. They are power mongers. If Christians allow these power mongers to speak on their behalf, others will fight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 just as there is by loud mouthed gays towards christians. it is always the minority that ruins it for most.I know. How dare the minority call out the majority on the pride they take in their prejustice. I can see why you are so appauled.Disney is losing money, so QUICKLY! Rake in as many gay people as possible!!! They're the only ones childish and dumb enough to waste money there!! eeeee!!!Actually the majority of those that continue to spend their money on a positve long term earnings corporation like Disney are heterosexuals. While I find their product to be low-class, I realize it's attractiveness as a positive investment inspite of it's appeal to the lowest common denominator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I know. How dare the minority call out the majority on the pride they take in their prejustice. I can see why you are so appauled.i think you missed the point. the minorities (the most vocal gays) hurt the majority (gays who aren't vocal). the vocal ones are only only pissing off the general population (who you're attempting to convince that being gay is good). i have many long term friends who happen to be gay that have never attempted to shove anything in my face. for me personally, anyone (gay/straight/whoever) who attempts to do this usually loses my attention. there are so many more important things in the world IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralo Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Good call there, Marty! Now go share your six-pack of Stupid Lite with musicman while the grown-ups talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I just got through watching CNN's 'What Would Jesus Do?' and they had some of the biggest names in religion answering tough questions about religion and Jesus. People that were guests included Pastor TD Jakes, Rick Warren, James Fallwell, etc.It was interesting in that the host kept asking the question "What would the Jesus of scripture do in this day and age?" and the answers ranged from helping people with AIDS to fighting poverty. Not a single one of them --while having personal beliefs about gay marriage and abortion-- thought that would be Jesus' focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmainguy Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 i think you missed the point. the minorities (the most vocal gays) hurt the majority (gays who aren't vocal). the vocal ones are only only pissing off the general population (who you're attempting to convince that being gay is good). i have many long term friends who happen to be gay that have never attempted to shove anything in my face. for me personally, anyone (gay/straight/whoever) who attempts to do this usually loses my attention. there are so many more important things in the world IMO.I'm not missing the point nor am I attempting to convince anyone that anything is "good." I leave that up to you and your "long term gay friends" whose attention seems to be focused not on their own self esteem and civil rights but on "more important things."Now maybe I'm in the minority but in my book standing up for equal rights and fairness under the Constitution trumps your straight and silent majority of straight and gay friends. So I'll just continue to stand up and speak out and if you benefit from my actions then that's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I'm not missing the point nor am I attempting to convince anyone that anything is "good." I leave that up to you and your "long term gay friends" whose attention seems to be focused not on their own self esteem and civil rights but on "more important things."Now maybe I'm in the minority but in my book standing up for equal rights and fairness under the Constitution trumps your straight and silent majority of straight and gay friends. So I'll just continue to stand up and speak out and if you benefit from my actions then that's great.It also begs the question of ... 'shoving in your face' ... I have straight co-workers that oogle women all day. I wonder if they'd be so liberal if I oogled guys all day or would that be 'shoving IT in their face'?For example, straights folks think nothing of public displays of affection (kissing, holding hands, sitting on laps, etc.) but if two dudes did it, there'd be an uproar.Seems like straights (like many in this country) are only concerned about equal rights when it's theirs they are protecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister X Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 i have many long term friends who happen to be gay that have never attempted to shove anything in my face. I have gay friends who are always trying to shove something in my face. Doesn't bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I have gay friends who are always trying to shove something in my face. Doesn't bother me. I guess for me it depends on who's and what's getting shoved in my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister X Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I hear that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicman Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 I'm not missing the point nor am I attempting to convince anyone that anything is "good." I leave that up to you and your "long term gay friends" whose attention seems to be focused not on their own self esteem and civil rights but on "more important things."Now maybe I'm in the minority but in my book standing up for equal rights and fairness under the Constitution trumps your straight and silent majority of straight and gay friends. So I'll just continue to stand up and speak out and if you benefit from my actions then that's great.Most of the people i know don't have problems with self esteem and civil rights. if you do, then by all means address these issues so that you can have an enjoyable, fullfilling life like the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted April 8, 2007 Author Share Posted April 8, 2007 Kids + gay agenda = dead USAStart your own amusement park . I am sure there's alot of money to be made and you don't have to worry about people like me who want there kids to be kids. More like world + organized religion = war, death, hatred, sorrow, horror, fear, etc. And to the "start your own amusement park" comment... no, we will just go to the ones that already exist. Don't like it?... keep your kids locked up in the house where those evil gays won't get them. > ..... ..... It also begs the question of ... 'shoving in your face' ... I have straight co-workers that oogle women all day. I wonder if they'd be so liberal if I oogled guys all day or would that be 'shoving IT in their face'?For example, straights folks think nothing of public displays of affection (kissing, holding hands, sitting on laps, etc.) but if two dudes did it, there'd be an uproar. Seems like straights (like many in this country) are only concerned about equal rights when it's theirs they are protecting. Very smart post... and so true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownWxBoy Posted April 8, 2007 Author Share Posted April 8, 2007 I have gay friends who are always trying to shove something in my face. Doesn't bother me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KinkaidAlum Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Wow.I think I'd be depressed if my gay fiance suggested we get married at DisneyWorld.There's about as much charm in that as getting married at Coca-Cola world in Atlanta. At least that's the real thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houstonmacbro Posted April 8, 2007 Share Posted April 8, 2007 Wow.I think I'd be depressed if my gay fiance suggested we get married at DisneyWorld.There's about as much charm in that as getting married at Coca-Cola world in Atlanta. At least that's the real thing...I can't imagine the twisted minds (straight or gay) that would want to be married in a theme park .. but hey, glad everyone can now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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