[Ethanra]

More good news for DT...
I remember reading a few post from last year that mentioned, the new park would be a waste of money.

[HtownWxBoy]

Ethanra, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 8:12pm, said:

More good news for DT...
I remember reading a few post from last year that mentioned, the new park would be a waste of money.

I have heard about this tower before... great news for Downtown! That will look awsome next to or at least very close to the park (not sure what block that is exactly). It would be great to see more towers on that side of Downtown... fill in that area a bit. :-)

[Ethanra]

East side of DT will/is becoming a cool neighborhood. With MMP, Toyota Center, Church expansions, new park, etc... It would be great to get more residential with street level retail... I'm sure more projects will be announced and break ground in this part of DT over the next couple of years.

How do you estimate how many floors and/or heigth a building will be when the number of square feet is given?

This post has been edited by Ethanra: Monday, March 26, 2007 at 8:39 PM

[Houstonian in Iraq]

Great news!!
Can't wait for more details like height and renderings

[RedScare]

Block 126 appears to be the irregular shaped block bounded by McKinney, LaBranch, Rusk and Crawford. It would be on the north edge of the park, east of Houston Center 5(? the newest one). However, HCAD maps are not loading up for me, so I cannot be positive. Can anyone confirm? Type in 1501 McKinney.

[Mister X]

great news

This post has been edited by Mister X: Monday, March 26, 2007 at 8:44 PM

[Ethanra]

RedScare, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 8:40pm, said:

Block 126 appears to be the irregular shaped block bounded by McKinney, LaBranch, Rusk and Crawford. It would be on the north edge of the park, east of Houston Center 5(? the newest one). However, HCAD maps are not loading up for me, so I cannot be positive. Can anyone confirm? Type in 1501 McKinney.

I used yahoo maps, and it is the irregular shape block bounded by McKinney, La Branch, WALKER, and Crawford. Thanks Red

[HtownWxBoy]

RedScare, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 8:40pm, said:

Block 126 appears to be the irregular shaped block bounded by McKinney, LaBranch, Rusk and Crawford. It would be on the north edge of the park, east of Houston Center 5(? the newest one). However, HCAD maps are not loading up for me, so I cannot be positive. Can anyone confirm? Type in 1501 McKinney.

That's the block I am seeing... two blocks east (or southeast) from Chevron Tower. Great location! Right next to the park... across the corner One Park Place. If you go to Discovery Green's website they actually have a tower placed there in the picture of the park.

This post has been edited by HtownWxBoy: Monday, March 26, 2007 at 8:46 PM

[RedScare]

Ethanra, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 8:45pm, said:

I used yahoo maps, and it is the irregular shape block bounded by McKinney, La Branch, WALKER, and Crawford. Thanks Red

Sorry, E. I tried to memorize all the streets and brain farted that one. Age and happy hour, I guess.

As for the building, a LEED project should make it a pretty cool looking building all around. I look forward to seeing what they come up with.

This post has been edited by RedScare: Monday, March 26, 2007 at 8:50 PM

[Drerx8]

Ethanra, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 8:22pm, said:

East side of DT will/is becoming a cool neighborhood. With MMP, Toyota Center, Church expansions, new park, etc... It would be great to get more residential with street level retail... I'm sure more projects will be announced and break ground in this part of DT over the next couple of years.

How do you estimate how many floors and/or heigth a building will be when the number of square feet is given?

Well for reference Chase Tower is almost 2 million sq. ft. and Heritage Plaza is about 1 million and change. So if this tower could be as much as 1.2 million sq.ft. think between 50 and 60 stories if it will sit on top of its own garage. If it was built at 600,000 sq.ft. I would guess that sits it at about 40 stories or so.

[HtownWxBoy]

Drerx8, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 8:56pm, said:

Well for reference Chase Tower is almost 2 million sq. ft. and Heritage Plaza is about 1 million and change. So if this tower could be as much as 1.2 million sq.ft. think between 50 and 60 stories if it will sit on top of its own garage. If it was built at 600,000 sq.ft. I would guess that sits it at about 40 stories or so.

I hope it's AT LEAST 50 stories.

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

Hopefully the energy sector remains strong so this thing can really happen!

[Talbot]

For some reason I was thinking that Discovery Tower was the name of the Fingers Development.

[UrbaNerd]

Quote

"Gensler Architects has been tapped to design the project, which will be built as a Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design-certified project."

As long as they don't pop out another boring(but still decent) box like 1000 Main, I'll be happy. Gensler seems to have a knack for designing boring structures around here (if I am not mistaken, 1000 main, and the Anadarko Tower in The Woodlands). Some of their new works in Hong Kong and DUbai are interesting, though.


Still, good news for downtown!

This post has been edited by UrbaNerd: Monday, March 26, 2007 at 10:11 PM

[lockmat]

I'm assuming they would rename at a later date after some company or something. Or no?

[H-Town Man]

lockmat, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 10:41pm, said:

I'm assuming they would rename at a later date after some company or something. Or no?

Most likely. Remember the ChevronTexaco tower was originally the Texas Heritage Plaza... then when Texaco signed on it became the Texaco Heritage Plaza. That's just how these things work.

This is great news. I kind of wish it was on the irregular block on the opposite side of the park, so as to better the view from Minute Maid Park, but I'm not complaining!

A 50+ tower would be great, but if they decide to play it cautious and build smaller, that's fine too... it just makes it more likely for other towers to be built in this area. I'd rather see a bunch of short buildings around this park than a few tall ones - it takes out the parking lots and helps build a neighborhood. A few really tall buildings sitting by themselves, with hundreds of cars pouring in and out all day, does not build a neighborhood.

[Subdude]

Great news, but as always it will probably be a long brutal process before shovels turn.
So this would be on the block adjacent to where 6 Houston Center would have been. I would have guessed that would have been first past the post in the downtown office building race.

[Boris]

Looks like the intial plans call for only 31 stories:


31-story building planned
Citing downtown market's strength, developer expects to draw tenants


By NANCY SARNOFF
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

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Betting on the continued strength of downtown's office market, Trammell Crow Co. is planning to build a tower on the eastern end of downtown near the convention center and Discovery Green, a 12-acre park under development.

The building, to be known as Discovery Tower, is designed to be 31 stories tall, including 630,000 square feet and 10 levels of parking. But the developer, which doesn't have a tenant for the building, said it could grow to 1.2 million square feet, depending on demand.

http://www.chron.com...ss/4663689.html

[The Great Hizzy!]

Yeah, I didn't think 50 stories were very likely given the info from the original HBJ article. Sounds like a spec project, and given the wide range of office space proposed, it didn't sound like it would be any more ambitious than 35-40 stories. The building will probably top out at around 435 feet or so if we use our old estimate formula from the Turnberry thread.

[GovernorAggie]

It's 31 stories now, but the story said it could grow (basically double) to around 50 stories based on demand. And they purchased the option on the next block! But I agree with H-Town Man--I wouldn't mind a dozen towers of 30-40 or so stories in place of say, 5 60 story office towers. If we can somehow get more mixed use towers (residential/hotel/office for example), then I think taller would be better. Taller ones would come if several 30, 40, even 50 story buildings quickly filled up because of the large blocks of space available.

Either way, great news!

Even greater news is the 6 Houston looks like it will be built on spec also, and Hines really is planning a new tower, likely for the "last seedy block of Main".

This post has been edited by GovernorAggie: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 at 9:05 AM

[Highway6]

GovernorAggie, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 9:04am, said:

likely for the "last seedy block of Main".

..which is where ?

[WesternGulf]

I think they are talking about where the West Building is. Hopefully no one touches the recently renovated Stowers building.

[MyEvilTwin]

GovernorAggie, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 9:04am, said:

It's 31 stories now, but the story said it could grow (basically double) to around 50 stories based on demand. And they purchased the option on the next block!

To me it was unclear whether the possible expansion meant more floors on the same building -- or building a second building on the other block. So if the demand comes in strong, I'm not sure if this one grows, or this one stays at 31 and they build another. (My guess is there are enough firms looking at building towers now that this one stays at 31 stories on one block, at best...)

I'm wondering just how "prime" this block is. If you're a company looking for space, what's more attractive? A building by the park, the convention center, Minute Maid, Houston Pavillions, etc...? Or one more centrally located in downtown? Either way, I'm beginning to think Brookfield's proposed building on the Continental Center I front lawn doesn't stand a chance -- it's in a far corner of downtown, and it's not close to any attractions. (Unless, of course, Chevron needs yet more space, but they're still getting the old Enron HQ ready for move-in)

[TheNiche]

MyEvilTwin, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 8:59am, said:

I'm wondering just how "prime" this block is. If you're a company looking for space, what's more attractive? A building by the park, the convention center, Minute Maid, Houston Pavillions, etc...? Or one more centrally located in downtown? Either way, I'm beginning to think Brookfield's proposed building on the Continental Center I front lawn doesn't stand a chance -- it's in a far corner of downtown, and it's not close to any attractions.

Brookfield's advantage is visibility along the western skyline. That's nothing to sneeze at. They're also in a fairly accessible part of downtown by virtue of the 'spaghetti bowl', whereas the eastern part requires a longer drive from most directions.

[TheNiche]

GovernorAggie, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 8:04am, said:

It's 31 stories now, but the story said it could grow (basically double) to around 50 stories based on demand. And they purchased the option on the next block! But I agree with H-Town Man--I wouldn't mind a dozen towers of 30-40 or so stories in place of say, 5 60 story office towers. If we can somehow get more mixed use towers (residential/hotel/office for example), then I think taller would be better. Taller ones would come if several 30, 40, even 50 story buildings quickly filled up because of the large blocks of space available.

From an aesthetic standpoint, I'd rather have the 5 60-story towers because it would allow us more room for long-term growth and have a greater impact on the skyline, which in my view is much more important than the downtown streetscape.

My only reservation, though, is that our sleek native style will be replaced with imported architecture that tries to recreate styles from other cities. If those 60-story towers all had spires on them, for instance, like the Frost Bank building in Austin, I'd rather that they be smaller and not be in the position to dominate the skyline.

[sevfiv]

thank goodness it is going to be LEED-certified

[lockmat]

GovernorAggie, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 6:04am, said:

It's 31 stories now, but the story said it could grow (basically double) to around 50 stories based on demand. And they purchased the option on the next block! But I agree with H-Town Man--I wouldn't mind a dozen towers of 30-40 or so stories in place of say, 5 60 story office towers. If we can somehow get more mixed use towers (residential/hotel/office for example), then I think taller would be better. Taller ones would come if several 30, 40, even 50 story buildings quickly filled up because of the large blocks of space available.

Either way, great news!

Even greater news is the 6 Houston looks like it will be built on spec also, and Hines really is planning a new tower, likely for the "last seedy block of Main".

What's spec mean?

===========

I've noticed on downtown maps on the street that the west side of DT is called the Skyline district. Do they call it that b/c that's just what it is, or are there some kind of regulations that say if you build in that area, it's gotta be a certain height?

===========

Another question. Is it more or less expensive to build two 30 story buildings, or one 60 story building? Or is it the same?

This post has been edited by lockmat: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 at 10:40 AM

[MidtownCoog]

So the Chron say it'll lease at $30/sf.

Is it really that cheap?

http://www.chron.com...nt/4663689.html

[lockmat]

H-Town Man, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 9:01pm, said:

Most likely. Remember the ChevronTexaco tower was originally the Texas Heritage Plaza... then when Texaco signed on it became the Texaco Heritage Plaza. That's just how these things work.

That's cool. Although I really like Discovery Tower.

[lockmat]

"Trammell Crow Co. is planning to build a tower on the eastern end of downtown" - Discovery Tower

"That's led other developers to plan new buildings as well..."

"Brookfield Properties of New York...is working on plans for a new downtown tower."

"Fort Worth-based Crescent Real Estate Equities Co. also said it will announce a building this year that will be attached to its existing Houston Center complex." - Does someone have an address for this place so I can look it up on mapquest?

"And Hines also is preparing for the development of a downtown building, but it won't announce anything until plans are complete."

"But prospects for the proposed towers aren't unlimited, leaving some to question the amount of space potentially being added at one time..."The thing that remains to be seen is whether we will go too far and overbuild," Robinson said."

Obviously all these different firms know that each one of them is planning a new tower, right? So regardless, it looks like each one of these is speculativly promising, yes? They all seem to think the tenants will be there.

And if these towers go up, it seems like downtown living would be that much more in demand as well, and we could possibly see another residential tower, no?

And how come all these were sort of announced all at once, yet Discovery T. was the only one to get an article in the HBJ? B/c they're further along and it looks more likely to happen?

---

Sorry for all the questions. I must have woke up on the high energy side of the bed this morning.

This post has been edited by lockmat: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 at 10:55 AM

[Jonah]

Wow!!!! Great news for Houston. I was really hoping that the remaining two lots surrounding the park would be developed into residential towers like One Park Place, but I'll take anything. I just really hope that the bottom floor of this new tower has retail to help compliment the the specialty grocer going in on the bottom floor of One Park Place.

[RedScare]

There are still roughly 3 and a half blocks surrounding the park, including the 1.5 block monster on the northern border. That block could support some monster building, similar to Hilton Americas, or preferably, 2 or 3 more slender buildings. I'm looking forward to what goes there.

[Pumapayam]

Houstonian in Iraq, on Monday, March 26th, 2007 @ 8:32pm, said:

Great news!!
Can't wait for more details like height and renderings

I wish they would announce project like with with a rendering or something for the public to envision.

RedScare, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 11:45am, said:

There are still roughly 3 and a half blocks surrounding the park, including the 1.5 block monster on the northern border. That block could support some monster building, similar to Hilton Americas, or preferably, 2 or 3 more slender buildings. I'm looking forward to what goes there.

So many surface lots just waiting to be developed. East side will definately see a boom in contruction.

[UrbaNerd]

We've come a long way....

[MidtownCoog]

great pic!

[Pumapayam]

What year was that photo taken, is it recent?

[musicman]

Pumapayam, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 12:56pm, said:

What year was that photo taken, is it recent?

definitely before 87 since the grb isn't there.

[H-Town Man]

That is a great pic. I would guess that it dates from the late 70's.

[ChannelTwoNews]

Pumapayam, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 1:56pm, said:

What year was that photo taken, is it recent?

Early to mid 80's?

GRB, a decent portion of Houston Center and few other things are missing. Inn at The Ballpark also has the old WTC facade in this shot too.

[MidtownCoog]

And I see my old Fave HLP glass palace. But that was around right before Toyo.

[Pumapayam]

MidtownCoog, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 1:06pm, said:

And I see my old Fave HLP glass palace. But that was around right before Toyo.

Does HLP mean Houston Lighting and Power (pre Centerpoint?)



I miss Louie the Lightning Bug!

I sang to all those commercials as a kids, surprisingly, they were not annoying.

Reminded me of School House Rock type material.

This post has been edited by Pumapayam: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 at 1:15 PM

[Original Timmy Chan's]

lockmat, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 10:37am, said:

What's spec mean?

It's "Speculative". Betting on the come. Meaning they're proceeding with construction without any have firm commitments on leasing out the space yet.

In other words, they feel that the market is going to be strong enough that they'll find people to fill their new building...

I'm sure the Niche or others can explain all the whys and wherefores about whether this is smart, dumb, good news, bad news, interesting, etc.

[HtownWxBoy]

I really hope the building goes higher than 31 stories... but even if it doesn't, this is really exciting for Downtown! So let's see... we have Discovery Green, Houston Pavilions and One Park Place all under construction... other retail planned for Main Street... and now more office towers being planned. Exciting times for Downtown!!

[lockmat]

Original Timmy Chan, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 10:26am, said:

It's "Speculative". Betting on the come. Meaning they're proceeding with construction without any have firm commitments on leasing out the space yet.

In other words, they feel that the market is going to be strong enough that they'll find people to fill their new building...

I'm sure the Niche or others can explain all the whys and wherefores about whether this is smart, dumb, good news, bad news, interesting, etc.

Perfect, thanks.

[TheNiche]

Original Timmy Chan, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 12:26pm, said:

It's "Speculative". Betting on the come. Meaning they're proceeding with construction without any have firm commitments on leasing out the space yet.

In other words, they feel that the market is going to be strong enough that they'll find people to fill their new building...

I'm sure the Niche or others can explain all the whys and wherefores about whether this is smart, dumb, good news, bad news, interesting, etc.

No need. You gave a textbook-quality definition.

The only thing more to take away from it is that there are a lot of folks out there with financial clout that have confidence in the downtown Houston office market. Is it justified? If not, it probably will be by the time any of this space actually hits the market.

...but having said that, don't expect for every proposal to work out. For the moment, it is all nothing more than a bunch of mouths flapping in the strong cool breeze that is $60 oil.

[TheNiche]

lockmat, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 9:37am, said:

I've noticed on downtown maps on the street that the west side of DT is called the Skyline district. Do they call it that b/c that's just what it is, or are there some kind of regulations that say if you build in that area, it's gotta be a certain height?

It is what it is.

lockmat, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 9:37am, said:

Another question. Is it more or less expensive to build two 30 story buildings, or one 60 story building? Or is it the same?

Typically, two 30's are less expensive than a 60. I'd prefer to see some 60's, but odds are very strong that we won't go that high in this building cycle.

[The Great Hizzy!]

Quote

I just really hope that the bottom floor of this new tower has retail to help compliment the the specialty grocer going in on the bottom floor of One Park Place.

While I understand where you're coming from, you don't want to oversaturate the market with retail just as you don't want to overbuild on commercial spec. Of course, if the area around Discovery Green is to become everything that everyone envisions, the market should eventually be there.

[lockmat]

The Great Hizzy!, on Tuesday, March 27th, 2007 @ 11:07am, said:

While I understand where you're coming from, you don't want to oversaturate the market with retail just as you don't want to overbuild on commercial spec. Of course, if the area around Discovery Green is to become everything that everyone envisions, the market should eventually be there.

I think I know where he might be coming from though. I think he says that b/c it helps the area become more livable when more residents move in.

This post has been edited by lockmat: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 at 2:12 PM

[WesternGulf]

You got to start somewhere with retail though. I'm sick of seeing just another pretty structure in downtown that does nothing for the vibrancy of the community. Something that killed our downtown during the building boom and removed dozens of blocks like the block at Preston Station where St Pete's sits. No point in going to that area if all you are going to walk by our walls with an entrance for employees only.

This post has been edited by WesternGulf: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 at 2:15 PM