Transit and Pedestrian Access

[Guest Marty]

Here where i live Treaschwig @ Birnam Wood Blvd riding a bike is risky i wish Metro had a bus service here.

[musicman]

Here where i live Treaschwig @ Birnam Wood Blvd riding a bike is risky i wish Metro had a bus service here.

I'm glad you made this comment Marty. You and your neighbors in the burbs are most likely paying the 1 cent sales tax for METRO but yet receiving no useable bus service. This is the dilemma we face. Using the substantial funds needed for LRT construction, METRO could implement more bus routes in outlying areas. But some rail supporters are saying that traffic is worse in the inner loop therefore light rail is needed. In this instance, light rail is wanted, not needed because there are bus routes that provide transportation in the area already.

[RedScare]

Has anybody here ever owned a business in a pedestrian oriented area?

Yes.

Call me crazy, but I wanted BOTH forms of access. However, I got far more business from the surrounding office buildings and the rail and bus stations a block away, than from automobile traffic. That is not to say that I valued car-driven customers less, as many of them arrived in downtown by car. However, the bulk of my traffic came from walkers and transit riders. The 30 parking spaces on the street in front of my store more than adequately handled the auto traffic, except during baseball games.

Outside of downtown, I would still want my business close to rail or a bus stop. Only an ignorant business owner would favor one over the other. We want BOTH. Rarely will a business be forced to choose one over the other. Bus and rail do not displace automobiles. The intelligent owner wants a rail stop on one side, and a parking lot on the other, with his cash register happily positioned in the middle.

[TheNiche]

Do retailers in Houston (generally, not just Costco over at the HISD site) see any value (positive or negative) in pedestrian and transit access? In Houston is it ONLY about personal automobile access? Why or why not?

[This question carried over from the Costco/HISD thread to avoid a hijacking.]

Wow. We've made 93 posts within a day of the thread being created. That's utterly amazing.

Question: What about sidewalks? Right now, the City standard is to have 4-foot wide sidewalks along major thoroughfares. Is it worth it for these businesses to spend a little bit more to lay more concrete and have wider sidewalks? And when I ask "is it worth it", I mean from their perspective more than from our perspective, which is that of the customer. ...or are we just not there yet?

[KinkaidAlum]

But do lots of Houstonians really want to live in pedestrian-oriented neighborhoods where (1) rents and mortgages are higher due to dense clusters around rail stops, (2) parking is scarce and expensive and (3) congestion is much greater? Under this scenario, public transportation only becomes more efficient by making driving less efficient. In other words, you're not necessarily making things more efficient overall, you're just making the current mode of transportation less attractive, thereby making the alternative more attractive.

It makes little sense in a city (1) where the temperature is above comfortable levels for walking much of the year, (2) where most residences, workplaces and retail establishments are already significantly built up at driving rather than walking scale, (3) where land is relatively affordable and (4) where the road system is extensive to try to recreate the kind of high prices, congestion, parking scarcity and general inconvenience of city centers on the East Coast.

Have you ever walked to work in heavy rain or snow? Hauled bags of groceries several blocks? Crowded onto a train to get to work? Tried to figure out how to get there when the train is out of service? Spent more on a one-bedroom condo than a single-family home costs in the suburbs? The most established place in the city for living like this, downtown, is connected by a series of tunnels, because most people find it too uncomfortable much of the year to walk outside even if just to get lunch or a cup of coffee while working. That makes a pretty strong statement about the mass appeal about living that way all the time.

And all of this without considering the billions of dollars that rail costs.

Actually, I do. I live in the South End of Boston. My office/showroom is 9 blocks from my house. I walk to work every day regardless of the weather. I ride the bus (Silverline) to the gym at night and the 46 bus home down Tremont. I also ride the T to get to some of my favorite restaurants, theaters, and bars.

I love it.

I'd hate to have to fight traffic every day to get to my house that I rarely enjoy because I am always on the freeways. I'd hate to have a bigger house because that would just mean I would have to pay for the utilities, for more furnishings, and it would be harder to maintain. I'd hate to have to have a car because I'd have to spend money on gas, insurance, and general maintenance.

By not having these things, I am a lot less frustrated than I was living in Houston. Sure, there are times when I hate carrying groceries home in the rain but I was way more frustrated in Houston, sitting in traffic, paying a fortune to air condition a house that was bigger than I needed, and spending way too much time and effort getting to places on time.

[JSB]

Actually, I do. I live in the South End of Boston. My office/showroom is 9 blocks from my house. I walk to work every day regardless of the weather. I ride the bus (Silverline) to the gym at night and the 46 bus home down Tremont. I also ride the T to get to some of my favorite restaurants, theaters, and bars.

I love it.

I'd hate to have to fight traffic every day to get to my house that I rarely enjoy because I am always on the freeways. I'd hate to have a bigger house because that would just mean I would have to pay for the utilities, for more furnishings, and it would be harder to maintain. I'd hate to have to have a car because I'd have to spend money on gas, insurance, and general maintenance.

By not having these things, I am a lot less frustrated than I was living in Houston. Sure, there are times when I hate carrying groceries home in the rain but I was way more frustrated in Houston, sitting in traffic, paying a fortune to air condition a house that was bigger than I needed, and spending way too much time and effort getting to places on time.

It sounds like you've voted with your feet and are happy with your decision to move to Boston. To each his own.

That said, your description is pretty selective. Would you necessarily have to have a house bigger than you need in Houston, with higher utilities and the need for more furniture? And is there no inconvenience associated with not having a car there? You might not need one, but plenty of people apparently do, but find it terrible to drive and park there. And were you really always on the freeways in Houston? Could you have lived closer into the city for a price comparable to what you pay in Boston?

Most importantly, do you think rail would somehow make significant parts of Houston like Boston, with the same level of density that makes walking and riding the T convenient? That's the real issue here. Even if you prefer living in a place like central Boston, D.C. or New York, is spending billions of dollars to lay rail in inner-Loop Houston going to simulate that experience? I'd far rather walk around Back Bay, Dupont Circle or Greenwich Village than drive there, but that doesn't mean that putting rail on Richmond is going to make it the same.

[JSB]

Btw, I believe that the reason that cities like Charlotte get that kind of development is because it is contrived by way of land use controls. It has long been recognized by researchers in the field of urban economics that extensive TOD without land use controls is unlikely except in relatively few circumstances...and then there's usually a very long wait. To me, though, it sounds like Charlotte is a severely mismanaged city. If it is as bad as you describe it, then I certainly won't be moving there any time soon. Call it revealed preference on my part.

Taking rail to get around Charlotte would be as inconvenient as taking rail to get around Houston. Most of Charlotte is, like Houston, already built at driving rather than walking scale.

That's what I don't get. If you're talking about rail to encourage pedestrian-oriented communities, then you're not only talking about the cost of building rail, you're also talking about the cost of having to rebuild the parts of the city along the rail line, because right now the distances are based on the assumption that people are driving, not walking.

[KinkaidAlum]

It sounds like you've voted with your feet and are happy with your decision to move to Boston. To each his own.

That said, your description is pretty selective. Would you necessarily have to have a house bigger than you need in Houston, with higher utilities and the need for more furniture? And is there no inconvenience associated with not having a car there? You might not need one, but plenty of people apparently do, but find it terrible to drive and park there. And were you really always on the freeways in Houston? Could you have lived closer into the city for a price comparable to what you pay in Boston?

Most importantly, do you think rail would somehow make significant parts of Houston like Boston, with the same level of density that makes walking and riding the T convenient? That's the real issue here. Even if you prefer living in a place like central Boston, D.C. or New York, is spending billions of dollars to lay rail in inner-Loop Houston going to simulate that experience? I'd far rather walk around Back Bay, Dupont Circle or Greenwich Village than drive there, but that doesn't mean that putting rail on Richmond is going to make it the same.

You went and changed the rules. Your original statement/question/rant was very different from this new one.

As for not having a car; no problem there. When I truly need one, I just sign on to www.zipcar.com. It's great. It's like a time share for cars. It is also very convenient. Additionally, by not having a car, I have a built in excuse for not having to go eat dinner at someone's house 30 miles from town!

And, if I want to travel, New England has many options. I can take the Chinatown bus or Acela to New York City. I can take the Ferry service out to Provincetown or to other parts of the Cape and Islands. Additionally, I am just $1.25 and 5 T stops away from Logan International Airport. By not having a car and having to pay for gas, insurance, and upkeep and by not owning a mcmansion with extra rooms I will never use but will feel obligated to furnish, provide utilities to, and protect (insurance) I end up having extra money to travel.

Also, I am not so crazy as to think that by providing a second rail line that magically Inner Loop Houston will transform itself into the Back Bay of Boston, Dumbo in Brooklyn, or Capital Hill in D.C. What I do think is that it will give people OPTIONS. What is wrong with choice? Why not give people the choice to live more simply? Why not give people the choice to live near a rail line that can take them to most of the places they would want to go? Why not give people the chance to aboid the hassles and risk of driving (the roads are freakin dangerous)? Why not give people the chance to walk out of their townhome near Edloe, take a light rail vehicle to Montrose, walk a few blocks to the Black Lab for lunch and then back to the rail line where you can transfer to Hermann Park for a day at the zoo or on to UH for a game?

It doesn't mean that people like yourself will have to give up your lifestyle. It doesn't mean that we will stop building roads and strip malls and drive thru pharmacies and a motor bank branch on every corner. It doesn't mean that you will have to sell your 3,800 square foot home and move into a shoe box. It just means that if you wanted to get rid of those things, you could.

[TheNiche]

What I do think is that it will give people OPTIONS. What is wrong with choice? Why not give people the choice to live more simply?

There's nothing wrong with choice. There is something wrong with spending more on providing that choice than it is valued by those who excerise it.

[Montrose1100]

I think it depends on the what store/retail (etc.) it is, what is in the area, and how well parking is.

On Westheimer, if you can get a parking spot, its easy to walk around the retail stores, go to the cafes (Agora, Brazil's). But If you can't get parking, then its a pain. I think any business could be sucessful, aslong as parking is abundent, and the spaces are big enough to fit Hummers. Thats where garages come in handy.

[citykid09]

IMHO, it depends on the type of business it is. I don't think you're average large grocery store or big box retailer is going to see any value in it because I would guess that many of their customers are going to find carrying their purchases home on mass transit inconvenient. But a business where people typically wouldn't carry much in or out might see some value in it.

Last year when I went to Atlanta, I noticed alot of people that rode MARTA carried backpacks. So when I went into the CNN gift shop, I bought a Braves travel bag and took it everywhere I went on the train.

[Houston19514]

Last year when I went to Atlanta, I noticed alot of people that rode MARTA carried backpacks. So when I went into the CNN gift shop, I bought a Braves travel bag and took it everywhere I went on the train.

And thank you, CityKid, for your "What I did on my summer vacation" report. ;-)

[tierwestah]

And thank you, CityKid, for your "What I did on my summer vacation" report. ;-)

man quit pickin' on people. I personally like to hear what goes on in Atlanta. I'm overdue another trip. ain't been since 2000

[Houston19514]

man quit pickin' on people. I personally like to hear what goes on in Atlanta. I'm overdue another trip. ain't been since 2000

Well, be sure to take your backpack ;-)

[Montrose1100]

Well, be sure to take your backpack ;-)

Your Braves travel bag, to be exact.

[Houston19514]

Your Braves travel bag, to be exact.

Yeah, I hear they are all the rage in Atlanta, especially on MARTA.

[infinite_jim]

Actually, I do. I live in the South End of Boston. My office/showroom is 9 blocks from my house. I walk to work every day regardless of the weather. I ride the bus (Silverline) to the gym at night and the 46 bus home down Tremont. I also ride the T to get to some of my favorite restaurants, theaters, and bars.

I love it.

I'd hate to have to fight traffic every day to get to my house that I rarely enjoy because I am always on the freeways. I'd hate to have a bigger house because that would just mean I would have to pay for the utilities, for more furnishings, and it would be harder to maintain. I'd hate to have to have a car because I'd have to spend money on gas, insurance, and general maintenance.

By not having these things, I am a lot less frustrated than I was living in Houston. Sure, there are times when I hate carrying groceries home in the rain but I was way more frustrated in Houston, sitting in traffic, paying a fortune to air condition a house that was bigger than I needed, and spending way too much time and effort getting to places on time.

it's posts like these that bother me.

I think in the long term, Houston, has a serious promblem attracting/keeping what demographers call the "creative class"

For years now, everyone I've met here who is incredibly gifted in art,music,& even architecture never wants to stay here, put down roots, or engage with the existing culture?

Is it that we are not ecologically minded, or that we choose to isolate our selves from real contact,diversity, or what some call the "heady brew"

just some things to think about

[desirous]

it's posts like these that bother me.

I think in the long term, Houston, has a serious promblem attracting/keeping what demographers call the "creative class"

For years now, everyone I've met here who is incredibly gifted in art,music,& even architecture never wants to stay here, put down roots, or engage with the existing culture?

Is it that we are not ecologically minded, or that we choose to isolate our selves from real contact,diversity, or what some call the "heady brew"

just some things to think about

There's a lot to do in Houston, one just has to look for it. By the way, living at Post Rice and working for JP Morgan next door would be very pleasant. One benefit of a small urban core is that the community within it is much more intimate. Places like New York are very depressing for less socially entrepreneurial people. Houston might not attract the most artists, but it'll have its share of architects, engineers, etc.