30,000 Crimes in the last 18 months

[mrfootball]

Per Houston City Councilwoman Tony Lawrence,

http://www.hcnonline.com/site/news.cfm?new...32256&rfi=6

[ricco67]

Per Houston City Councilwoman Tony Lawrence,

http://www.hcnonline.com/site/news.cfm?new...32256&rfi=6

i don't see any firm numbers on there, but i agree with the article overall.

where did the number come from since its not mentioned there?

the only thing mentioned are percentages.

[DJ V Lawrence]

Isn't being an illegal immigrant in itself "illegal"? If not, then wow

[mrfootball]

i don't see any firm numbers on there, but i agree with the article overall.

where did the number come from since its not mentioned there?

Look at the last sentence in the article:

She said in the last 18 months, 30,000 crimes have been directly attributed to illegal immigrants who have entered the city through the U.S.-Mexican border.

And that's just the crimes we know about that occured in the City of Houston. I would imagine a similar number for the County.

[Guest danax]

i don't see any firm numbers on there, but i agree with the article overall.

where did the number come from since its not mentioned there?

the only thing mentioned are percentages.

She's just racist. That number does seem high and it doesn't say if it's the Houston area or....?

Doing something about illegals committing crime and holding apt owners responsible for crime in their complexes creates somewhat of an ironic dilemma since Houston is an unofficial sanctuary city, and is therefore responsible to an extent for the illegals and also Mayor White was a big supporter of Prop F, which takes tax money and funds affordable housing, which are often apartment complexes.

Maybe the City should use the numbers to begin the reversal some of their dubious thinking.

[mrfootball]

I think the whole idea of 'sanctuary' cities is unconstitutional.

[Houston19514]

I think the whole idea of 'sanctuary' cities is unconstitutional.

I agree.

[musicman]

She's just racist. That number does seem high and it doesn't say if it's the Houston area or....?

Doing something about illegals committing crime and holding apt owners responsible for crime in their complexes creates somewhat of an ironic dilemma since Houston is an unofficial sanctuary city, and is therefore responsible to an extent for the illegals and also Mayor White was a big supporter of Prop F, which takes tax money and funds affordable housing, which are often apartment complexes.

Maybe the City should use the numbers to begin the reversal some of their dubious thinking.

Wayne Dolcefino just had a story on crimes committed by illegals and the number was quite less than Ms. Lawrence's.

Danax hit the bulleye when he said Houston is a sanctuary city. The illegals KNOW this and hence many come here. When you say that to the Mayor, he becomes VERY offended by the term sanctuary city. This is why there has been a push for the administration to address the problem. The council recently instituted a new policy where they can ask about a persons immigration status AFTER they have been pulled over for another infraction. The city provides "shelter" (at taxpayer expense) to look for day labor jobs as well. While a nice thing to do, it is a sign that the city welcomes anyone, even illegals.

[RedScare]

I think the whole idea of 'sanctuary' cities is unconstitutional.

Interesting statement. On what grounds would you suggest that it is unconstitutional?

[VicMan]

I'm ambivalent on illegal immigration, but I am not ambivalent on illegal immigrants driving cars, nor am I ambivalent on illegal immigrant criminals.

In the case of illegal immigrants driving cars: They have no insurance and may wreck a car, causing property loss. Illegal immigrants have no business driving cars: they can hitch rides with legal friends or ride METRO buses.

Criminals (Defined as illegal immigrants who commit other crimes, e.g. anything from petty theft to murder): If an illegal immigrant commits any sort of crime and is arrested, he or she may be sent back home; if the illegal immigrant commits crimes here, I don't care if he's sent back. If illegal immigrant criminals commit serious crimes, send them into forced labor and place monitoring devices so that the criminals may not escape. Once they serve their terms, they are deported (unless the term happens to be a life or death term)

As a note, I found a discussion about illegal immigration on the Kingwood forum here: http://www.kingwood.com/message_board/view...parent_id=18259

Edited November 16, 2006 by VicMan

[nmainguy]

Look at the last sentence in the article:

And that's just the crimes we know about that occured in the City of Houston. I would imagine a similar number for the County.

I'm sure we all read the last sentence in the article you sited.

The question is where is she getting the 30,000 figure from and why do you imagine a similar number for the county?

[mrfootball]

I'm sure we all read the last sentence in the article you sited.

The question is where is she getting the 30,000 figure from and why do you imagine a similar number for the county?

I've no idea where she got the number, she's a Houston City Council woman, I'm sure she has access to more info than we do with regards to these statistics.

As far as speculation that the number could be equal in the counties, just look at the population of Houston and the population in the Houston MSA and draw your own conclusions. There are as many people living outside of Houston as those who live inside the City limits, in fact...there are more.

Edited November 16, 2006 by mrfootball

[nmainguy]

I've no idea where she got the number, she's a Houston City Council woman, I'm sure she has access to more info than we do with regards to these statistics.

As far as speculation that the number could be equal in the counties, just look at the population of Houston and the population in the Houston MSA and draw your own conclusions. There are as many people living outside of Houston as those who live inside the City limits, in fact...there are more.

In fact there are not.

Est. 2005 Harris Co. population3,693,050

Est. 2005 COH population 2,016,582

Most Harris County residents live in Houston.

[TheNiche]

In fact there are not.

Est. 2005 Harris Co. population3,693,050

Est. 2005 COH population 2,016,582

Most Harris County residents live in Houston.

How many times must this forum repeat itself regarding Census geographies???

The Houston MSA is comprised of ten counties, not just Harris. They include Harris, Montgomery, San Jacinto, Liberty, Chambers, Galveston, Brazoria, Fort Bend, Waller, and Austin.

Claritas, Inc. estimates the MSA population to be about 5.33 million.

Edited November 17, 2006 by TheNiche

[RedScare]

To be fair, Niche, Pigskin named Harris County in one post, then said Houston MSA in the next. Nmainguy is correct on his answer, but Pigskin is right on the MSA percentage.

[mrfootball]

When I said 'County', I was referring to the 'counties' of what is commonly referred to as the Houston area (ie. Houston MSA), I never said 'Harris' county specifically.

30,000 is a lot for the City of Houston...but not all to suprising if you look at the sheer number of illegal immigrants in Texas jails & prisons (and they're not there for the crime of having immigrated illegally mind you).

Edited November 17, 2006 by mrfootball

[TheNiche]

To be fair, Niche, Pigskin named Harris County in one post, then said Houston MSA in the next. Nmainguy is correct on his answer, but Pigskin is right on the MSA percentage.

Fair enough, but nmain gave the right answer to the wrong question. Correction was required.

[RedScare]

When I said 'County', I was referring to the 'counties' of what is commonly referred to as the Houston area (ie. Houston MSA), I never said 'Harris' county specifically.

30,000 is a lot for the City of Houston...but not all to suprising if you look at the sheer number of illegal immigrants in Texas jails & prisons (and they're not there for the crime of having immigrated illegally mind you).

30,000 seems like a lot until you consider that there are 150,000 crimes committed in the City of Houston each year. So, 30,000 in 18 months amounts to just 13.3 percent of the total of 225,000. Some estimates of the number of illegals in Houston are as high as 400,000, or 20% of the population. If so, then illegals account for a smaller percentage of Houston crime than the natives.

There are several studies that suggest that, because they are illegal, immigrants try not to attract attention, therefore, they commit fewer crimes. However, their American born children do not seem to have the same fears, so their crime rates are higher.

[TheNiche]

30,000 seems like a lot until you consider that there are 150,000 crimes committed in the City of Houston each year. So, 30,000 in 18 months amounts to just 13.3 percent of the total of 225,000. Some estimates of the number of illegals in Houston are as high as 400,000, or 20% of the population. If so, then illegals account for a smaller percentage of Houston crime than the natives.

This analysis is oversimplified. What kinds of reported crimes are being committed by illegals in disproportionate numbers? Personal, property, or 'victimless'?

[RedScare]

This analysis is oversimplified. What kinds of reported crimes are being committed by illegals in disproportionate numbers? Personal, property, or 'victimless'?

The studies I have read suggest that illegals commit NO crimes in disproportionate numbers. But, the number I gave for total crime includes violent crime (23,000 per year) and property crime (125,000 per year). Drug offenses are not included in the total.

BTW, of course the analysis is oversimplified. We are taking one number given by a city councilwoman trying to make a political point, and trying to figure out if the number means anything. The "analysis", if we can even call it that, was my stab at the subject. Feel free to go at it from another angle.

[TheNiche]

The studies I have read suggest that illegals commit NO crimes in disproportionate numbers. But, the number I gave for total crime includes violent crime (23,000 per year) and property crime (125,000 per year). Drug offenses are not included in the total.

BTW, of course the analysis is oversimplified. We are taking one number given by a city councilwoman trying to make a political point, and trying to figure out if the number means anything. The "analysis", if we can even call it that, was my stab at the subject. Feel free to go at it from another angle.

I'd find that hard to believe. Illegals aren't as likely to be caught in prostitution stings because most probably can't afford the prostitutes. Likewise, they probably aren't going to commit many white collar crimes, such as embezzlement.

So what crimes do you think that they are more likely to commit? Intuitively, and I have no data to back me up, I'd think that violent and property crimes would be relatively high on the list (i.e. crimes that are committed by illegals in disproportionate number).

[nmainguy]

We are taking one number given by a city councilwoman trying to make a political point, and trying to figure out if the number means anything.

That goes back to my original question: where is she getting her 30,000 number from?

I don't want a dissertation-just a source.

[Guest danax]

BTW, of course the analysis is oversimplified. We are taking one number given by a city councilwoman trying to make a political point, and trying to figure out if the number means anything. The "analysis", if we can even call it that, was my stab at the subject. Feel free to go at it from another angle.

I think your analysis is fair. The question that pops into my mind is are these numbers of convictions? I am thinking the percentage of no-show illegals after arrests must be staggering, since they are often here without ID and ties. Why would they stick around, especially if it were a felony? So, do these cases not count in the total crime numbers/illegal crime numbers?

Which brings up another question; do judges in around town know the immigration status of the perps before bail is set? Judging by the number of bail bondsmen who send mail to my house seeking compensation from various persons who used this address (a former illegal stash house) I would guess not. That would be quite a loophole in the system.

[KinkaidAlum]

Seriosuly, I am bored of the illegal immigration chatter. It's just another in a long line of politically trumped up "stories" that villify a particular group to deflect our attention away from the things that truly matter (the war, campaign finance reform, lobbyists, corporate welfare, poverty, homelessness, the dismantling of the United States Constitution, etc...).

[TheNiche]

Seriosuly, I am bored of the illegal immigration chatter. It's just another in a long line of politically trumped up "stories" that villify a particular group to deflect our attention away from the things that truly matter (the war, campaign finance reform, lobbyists, corporate welfare, poverty, homelessness, the dismantling of the United States Constitution, etc...).

For the record, I agree with your sentiment. This topic has been done to death, and yet nothing has or will come of it. But is there that much of a difference between lax immigration policy and "corporate welfare"? Excessive illegal immigration is, afterall, a boon to rich citizens and a scourge to poor citizens. And that's the jist of "corporate welfare" (which I've explained in multiple previous threads is a misnomer).

Funny how "things that truely matter" seem to revolve around a particular political ideology (or the bashing of its opponents). Its as though you're reading straight from a press release from the DNC. Why no room for a bipartisan discussion of all the issues in a sane and reasonable way? I'd think that that would be a better goal.

Dogma sucks. Think for yourself.

Edited November 17, 2006 by TheNiche

[nmainguy]

Seriosuly, I am bored of the illegal immigration chatter. It's just another in a long line of politically trumped up "stories" that villify a particular group to deflect our attention away from the things that truly matter (the war, campaign finance reform, lobbyists, corporate welfare, poverty, homelessness, the dismantling of the United States Constitution, etc...).

Agreed. Topics like these that revolve around a number [30,000] no one can or is willing to verify are more likely to be seen as someone's tool for fear-mongering rather than useful forums for discussion.

When the opening post is a newspaper article about a councilwoman's speech laced with un-verified figures, the thread has no where to go but down.

[ricco67]

Agreed. Topics like these that revolve around a number [30,000] no one can or is willing to verify are more likely to be seen as someone's tool for fear-mongering rather than useful forums for discussion.

When the opening post is a newspaper article about a councilwoman's speech laced with un-verified figures, the thread has no where to go but down.

amen.

this just goes around and around.

as far as the article itself goes, it just gave no real perspective on the number.

anyone can throw out a number to statistics that can be manipulated in any number of ways.

that's why its ALWAYS important to get multiple sources for information and figures. the truth generally lies somewhere in between.

[houstonmacbro]

i wonder where she is getting her facts from too ... while i agree, that something does have to be done about illegal aliens, i am not sure pulling numbers out of thin air is the solution.

[Houston19514]

Has anyone thought of e-mailing the woman and asking her?

[jdbaker]

Interesting statement. On what grounds would you suggest that it is unconstitutional?

I once had a Con Law professor who wrote exam questions that were strikingly similar to your question. For example, in three sentences or less, make an equal protection argument showing that Brown v. Board of Education was wrongly decided. (He was African-America and liberal, but above all else a deconstructionist). Hardest exam I've ever taken.