The US automakers and their troubles

[RedScare]

I think you mean the 4.7 L

See? I rarely have to lift the hood!

[MidtownCoog]

Only 26K miles is great.

[TJones]

So, you get to pay $1500 extra for an engine that may go *POP*! I'm all in.

[MidtownCoog]

Nissan's new radio commerical says "don't buy a toy truck". It's funny to see these two duke it out for the Texas truck market.

[TJones]

Coog, I don't know if you have sat in a new Tundra yet, but you need an arm extender to reach the A/C controls. You are better off having someone ride with you at all times so they can turn the controls for the A/C and Radio.

You would also think they that Toyota could have spent $5 for a piece of plastic to cover up the cheap exposed foam under the hood.

All that power and you can't even get a longbed in the Toyota to haul stuff around. You also have to pay extra to get the CrewMax in order to have the same room as a standard Nissan crewcab. Why would anyone spend $6k more to go a measly .1sec faster in the 1/4 mile ?

[MidtownCoog]

.1sec faster in the 1/4 mile ?

LOL. That's one thing I have never understood. Fast trucks?

Who in the world buys a truck becuase it's fast? And why in the world do companies try to sell their trucks as fast?

Anybody who wants to go fast should not buy a truck.

99.5% of Chevy Tahoe drivers fall into this caterogory. They drive those things like they are bats out of hell. Easy now, pardna! It's truck, not a Vette.

[TJones]

Here is a good article for light reading.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive...rs/4212506.html

Coog, fast trucks is the automakers fault also. They make all the SS and Lightning and SRT versions of these and get Gearheads all hot and bothered, then the soccer moms go out and buy the SUV versions of them because they look cool and AREN'T a minivan. Then, once they FEEL the power, they think they are all Mario Andretti, and because they have the biggest gun out on the highway, that the rest of us should yield to their power and horrible driving habits. Of course after the smoke clears and they have flipped their shiny new SUV or parked it under a Semi, they want to blame the vehicle or the tires that they NEVER check or bother to keep up, because they "just drive them, the Jiffy-Lube guy was supposed to check that when I went in last month."

[MidtownCoog]

What a bunch of morons. I have a bit of gearhead in me, but I know how to keep it respectible.

And I don't do it in a truck.

[webdude]

LOL. That's one thing I have never understood. Fast trucks?

Who in the world buys a truck becuase it's fast? And why in the world do companies try to sell their trucks as fast?

Anybody who wants to go fast should not buy a truck.

99.5% of Chevy Tahoe drivers fall into this caterogory. They drive those things like they are bats out of hell. Easy now, pardna! It's truck, not a Vette.

We should also ask why folks buy trucks when they don't even use it to pickup or haul anything. Most of the trucks I see on the roads have nothing in the back of them pickups, and the beds are always so shiny clean inside. What is the point when air is all they are picking up?.

[plumber2]

I just attended a church festival in Hitchcock and a high school graduation ceremony in Santa Fe the week before. Just walking around the parking lot at these two functions gives you an idea of who is buying domestic vehicles. It's us working class conservative (union for most part) democrats. You could have counted the import vehicles on one hand if you had wanted to spend the time looking. (I did).

Who in their right mind would pull their Grady White to the boat ramp with a Toyota Tundra, or pull their fifth wheel to the deer lease with a Nissan (whatchamacallit). These working class people get it. They know what side their bread is covered on and what it's covered with. These guys were raised right by

those parents of the great generation. I'm talking about those parents that went through the depression, WWII, and the cold war. We (this generation) know it's our duty as American citizens to perpetuate a culture of work ethic for the next generation. That includes supporting a domestic auto industry that builds the best vehicles for it's own citizens. Let the Chinese and Japanese build vehicles for their own people. I for one am not falling for their slick adds and paid consumer reports propaganda.

I'm fine with Bubba building my car. I can't get my arms around the idea of Hans or Hatchi crawling around on my car seats before I get to.

So there! again!, Niche .

[musicman]

according to today's chronicle..hyundai is pulling ahead of the pack.

When it comes to car quality, it may be time to start thinking Korean.

Hyundai Motor Co. leads in five categories in the annual vehicle quality study released today by Strategic Vision Inc., a San Diego-based market research company and consultant to automakers.

Once known best as the maker of cheap, entry-level cars, the South Korean automaker outperformed its Japanese, European and U.S. rivals in this year's survey, based on interviews with about 27,000 people who bought 2007 models in September-November 2006.

full article

[TJones]

Plumber2, I hate to break it to ya, but Bubba builds Nissan "Whatchamacallits" in Smyrna, Tennessee. Right smack dab in the heart of Bubbaville. Those guys know who is buttering THEIR bread.

[MidtownCoog]

Those guys know who is buttering THEIR bread.

Bubbason?

[ricco67]

I just attended a church festival in Hitchcock and a high school graduation ceremony in Santa Fe the week before. Just walking around the parking lot at these two functions gives you an idea of who is buying domestic vehicles. It's us working class conservative (union for most part) democrats. You could have counted the import vehicles on one hand if you had wanted to spend the time looking. (I did).

Who in their right mind would pull their Grady White to the boat ramp with a Toyota Tundra, or pull their fifth wheel to the deer lease with a Nissan (whatchamacallit). These working class people get it. They know what side their bread is covered on and what it's covered with. These guys were raised right by

those parents of the great generation. I'm talking about those parents that went through the depression, WWII, and the cold war. We (this generation) know it's our duty as American citizens to perpetuate a culture of work ethic for the next generation. That includes supporting a domestic auto industry that builds the best vehicles for it's own citizens. Let the Chinese and Japanese build vehicles for their own people. I for one am not falling for their slick adds and paid consumer reports propaganda.

I'm fine with Bubba building my car. I can't get my arms around the idea of Hans or Hatchi crawling around on my car seats before I get to.

So there! again!, Niche .

hate to tell you this, but while I was apprehensive when I first saw the imported trucks, their ability to LAST is what sold more and more people on them. Now that Toyota and Nissan are building bigger trucks, I have been seeing them on a number of construction sites. You know, people that actually USE trucks like they were be designed to. Been seeing fewer and fewer Fords out there, with the exception of those that need the power of a top of the line ford with heavy suspension, but I believe over the next few years, there will be converts in that as well.

China's growing auto manufacturing status is where Toyota, Nissan, and other's were in the 70's, as long as the quality increases, consumers will go to it, regardless of where it's manufactured from. That is, unless we get into a war with China.

[TJones]

Bubbason?

THAT is hilarious ! ! !

Honorable Bubbason ?

[MidtownCoog]

Considering the new (key word, new) full size Jap trucks you see on contrsuction sites are new, you can't say that they will hold up as long as a Ford F 150. There is zero data to support it.

We shall see.

[Mr. Chenevert]

hate to tell you this, but while I was apprehensive when I first saw the imported trucks, their ability to LAST is what sold more and more people on them. Now that Toyota and Nissan are building bigger trucks, I have been seeing them on a number of construction sites. You know, people that actually USE trucks like they were be designed to. Been seeing fewer and fewer Fords out there, with the exception of those that need the power of a top of the line ford with heavy suspension, but I believe over the next few years, there will be converts in that as well.

China's growing auto manufacturing status is where Toyota, Nissan, and other's were in the 70's, as long as the quality increases, consumers will go to it, regardless of where it's manufactured from. That is, unless we get into a war with China.

But they ain't Union, and Plumber says thats wrong of them.

Mmmmm Butter

[TheNiche]

I just attended a church festival in Hitchcock and a high school graduation ceremony in Santa Fe the week before. Just walking around the parking lot at these two functions gives you an idea of who is buying domestic vehicles. It's us working class conservative (union for most part) democrats. You could have counted the import vehicles on one hand if you had wanted to spend the time looking. (I did).

Who in their right mind would pull their Grady White to the boat ramp with a Toyota Tundra, or pull their fifth wheel to the deer lease with a Nissan (whatchamacallit). These working class people get it. They know what side their bread is covered on and what it's covered with. These guys were raised right by those parents of the great generation. I'm talking about those parents that went through the depression, WWII, and the cold war. We (this generation) know it's our duty as American citizens to perpetuate a culture of work ethic for the next generation. That includes supporting a domestic auto industry that builds the best vehicles for it's own citizens. Let the Chinese and Japanese build vehicles for their own people. I for one am not falling for their slick adds and paid consumer reports propaganda.

I'm fine with Bubba building my car. I can't get my arms around the idea of Hans or Hatchi crawling around on my car seats before I get to.

So there! again!, Niche .

First, it should be said that only a very small fraction of the Houston area employment is unionized. I'd be utterly amazed if "for the most part" actually included greater than 50% of those Hitchcock/Santa Fe auto owners.

Second, you do realize that bubba builds Hondas, Nissans, and Toyotas, right? Only a few Japanese vehicles are physically imported anymore. ...and on top of that, what happens when American investors and mutual funds buy shares of Toyota? Is it really a Japanese company if a good portion of it is owned by foreigners and a good portion of its operations are overseas? The lines are blurred...no more or less blurred than GM, Ford, or especially Chrysler.

Lastly, did you happen to take a poll of Hitchcock and Santa Fe residents, or perhaps the attendees of this event? It strikes me as unlikely that these residents are union Democrats, considering how few Democrats within their districts are actually in office. Just how did you draw your conclusion? After all, a big slice of my family is from that very part of the world, work blue collar jobs, and drive domestic vehicles--but vote Republican.

[ricco67]

Considering the new (key word, new) full size Jap trucks you see on contrsuction sites are new, you can't say that they will hold up as long as a Ford F 150. There is zero data to support it.

We shall see.

Oh yeah, there is zero stats because a work truck that's been out in less than a year has zero data. The Polio vaccine didn't have any data that it would work either. One day Editor needs to make a subsection about predictions that we can file through by user date and topic.

But they ain't Union, and Plumber says thats wrong of them.

Mmmmm Butter

Whatever. There are VERY few unions here, if you're self employed, the only thing you care about is what is going to give you more bang for the buck. If your truck fails after the warranty runs out, or your vehicle is stuck in the shop doesn't mean the Truck's manufacturer is going to pay for your downtime, regardless of whether it's made domestically or not.

[MidtownCoog]

I was wrong. There is some data on Toyta's answer to full size American trucks.

Something about an abnormality with the engine block going CRACK.

[plumber2]

Okay Niche, I apoligize. I did not take a survey. Yes union membership is declining and most union members tend to vote republican these days. (Not me though)

Actually this part of Galveston County tends to vote democrat. We have a democrat US Congressman, Our JP, constable, county commissioner, county judge, and county sheriff, district clerk, county clerk, district attorney and most of the district court judges are all democrat. Our state rep. from this part of the county is a republican, but the state rep. from the southern part of the county is a democrat.

[nmainguy]

I just attended a church festival in Hitchcock and a high school graduation ceremony in Santa Fe the week before. Just walking around the parking lot at these two functions gives you an idea of who is buying domestic vehicles. It's us working class conservative (union for most part) democrats. You could have counted the import vehicles on one hand if you had wanted to spend the time looking. (I did).

Who in their right mind would pull their Grady White to the boat ramp with a Toyota Tundra, or pull their fifth wheel to the deer lease with a Nissan (whatchamacallit). These working class people get it. They know what side their bread is covered on and what it's covered with. These guys were raised right by

those parents of the great generation. I'm talking about those parents that went through the depression, WWII, and the cold war. We (this generation) know it's our duty as American citizens to perpetuate a culture of work ethic for the next generation. That includes supporting a domestic auto industry that builds the best vehicles for it's own citizens. Let the Chinese and Japanese build vehicles for their own people. I for one am not falling for their slick adds and paid consumer reports propaganda.

I'm fine with Bubba building my car. I can't get my arms around the idea of Hans or Hatchi crawling around on my car seats before I get to.

So there! again!, Niche .

A woman that worked for me berated me for driving a Toyota because in her view it was un-American. I let her go on and on and then suggested we investigate who was driving what and where it was built. My Toyota was built in California and her Buick was built in Canada. She said "so what?" and I said who's paying taxes where? That pretty much shut her up because it didn't have so much to do with nationalistic pride as it did to do with her self interests. I certainly understand where you are coming from but it's a new world that many resist. Many foreign countries set up shop in the US and build superior products. Their employees pay US income taxes and SS. The companies pay taxes as well as reap profits for the home office. When US automakers meet the standards set by the Toyotas and Hondas of the world, they will shrink back to Japan. Until then, most people will buy the best product available.

After all, a big slice of my family is from that very part of the world, work blue collar jobs, and drive domestic vehicles--but vote Republican.

No surprise there. You and your family are the poster children for those that vote against your own self interests.

Okay Niche, I apoligize. I did not take a survey. Yes union membership is declining and most union members tend to vote republican these days. (Not me though)

Don't apologize. It's a well known fact that many union people and niche-like family members vote against their own self interests..unless their self interests involves remaining at the bottom of the ladder.

[TexasArchitect]

When US automakers meet the standards set by the Toyotas and Hondas of the world, they will shrink back to Japan. Until then, most people will buy the best product available.

couldn't have said it better myself!!

[musicman]

couldn't have said it better myself!!

looks like honda is having a few hiccups as well.

Honda will discontinue the hybrid version of its Accord sedans, the company said today conceding Toyota's dominance with the hit Prius hybrid.

article

[TexasArchitect]

looks like honda is having a few hiccups as well.

Honda will discontinue the hybrid version of its Accord sedans, the company said today conceding Toyota's dominance with the hit Prius hybrid.

article

actually, honda's have there share of problems. i'm not even going to try and argue that they are flawless, lol. my '03 accord, which was the new bodystyle for the 7th gen, gave me some problems. which were kind of expected as it being the new style it would be the "guinea pig" but honda has fixed the issues with no questions or hassles. even things that happened after warranty they fixed it.

granted some may say a car sholudn't have issues, but this is a Honda not a BMW or Lexus. Plus the issues aren't enough to weigh the cars reputation down. Hondas still have their highest resale value because in the end they are good cars. in highschool i had a 96 accord and gave it to a friend of the family and that sucker is still running strong. What's good about hondas also is they can be driven hard unlike other cars in it's class (family vehicles) they can redline and the engine can take it where as other engines wouldn't. thats y u see a lot of modded civics.

I personally woulnd't buy American, all we have in our family are Lexus' and Honda's and an Olds lol, and that's cuz my dad loved American cars. i personally like classic muscle cars like the chevy ss, etc. When i get together with the import scene we respect the power of the ford saleen, cobra. chevy vette, and pontiac gto, along w/ older muscle cars because for the money those are fast cars u can buy for cheap, but we pick import for a reason and that is quality in it's suspension, engine type, i could go on and on, but that's y i sum it up to nmainguy's comment

When US automakers meet the standards set by the Toyotas and Hondas of the world, they will shrink back to Japan. Until then, most people will buy the best product available.

now back to trucks. i personally don't like trucks cuz i need a car that is responsive to the way i drive and suv's and trucks just don't cut it for me, but if i were to buy a truck i would get import.

i see too many recalls on fords, from them catching on fire, to using crappy firestone tires which takes up back to the "standards" point. chevy trucks seem decent, but i still wouldn't buy one, lol.

[sevfiv]

any chance that someone will do something good and bring back a car like the EV1?

cars like Zaps are looking too pricey to "invest" in (http://www.zapworld.com/), and Kurrents...yeah.

what are the chances (and what would be the cost) of the Volt?

[MidtownCoog]

i see too many recalls on fords, from them catching on fire, to using crappy firestone tires which takes up back to the "standards" point.

Recalls are a way of life in the auto business.

Toyota Recalls 533,000 Tundras, Sequoias

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/01...a_recalls_.html

Honda Recalling 165,000 Cars and Trucks

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/03..._recalling.html

2006/07 Recalls:

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/recalls/

[Mr. Chenevert]

Recalls are a way of life in the auto business.

Toyota Recalls 533,000 Tundras, Sequoias

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/01...a_recalls_.html

Honda Recalling 165,000 Cars and Trucks

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/03..._recalling.html

2006/07 Recalls:

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/recalls/

Yes, but not all recalls are the same. A co-worker of mine lost his house in a fire due to his Ford F-150 catching fire in the garage. It was related to a recall that had yet to be performed.

[TexasArchitect]

Recalls are a way of life in the auto business.

Toyota Recalls 533,000 Tundras, Sequoias

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/01...a_recalls_.html

Honda Recalling 165,000 Cars and Trucks

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/03..._recalling.html

2006/07 Recalls:

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/recalls/

absolutely no question about it. i'm using the ford as an example as it was a big problem and they didn't even want to make it a recall at first. at least the other recalls were viewed as hazards and recalls were issued.

[Mr. Chenevert]

looks like honda is having a few hiccups as well.

Honda will discontinue the hybrid version of its Accord sedans, the company said today conceding Toyota's dominance with the hit Prius hybrid.

article

I never understood Honda's marketing decision of the Accord Hybrid. Instead of offering it with the 4 cylinder as an ultra economical accord, they launched it with the V6 as a performance model with decent economy.

Not only that, but the pricing was above the high end V6 model with leather and all that jazz. I mean, it was in Lexus/BMW/etc territory, but still was a front wheel drive people mover.

The prius and camry hybrid, use the 4 cylinder engine and dont price the bejeezus out of the thing.

Also, Honda's hybrid technology is not as advanced as Toyota's. Toyota's transmission can accept power from either the gasoline engine or the electric motor. However, Honda only has a serial hybrid. The gasoline engine must be running, but the electric motor can aid in power delivery.