Watch out for these cameras!

[pineda]

list of intersections in the Houston area with red-light cameras

Police officials expect citations to greatly increase, since traffic on the freeway feeder roads is generally much heavier than it is on side streets.

"We expect that the numbers are going to go way up now," said HPD spokesman John Cannon.

What a great new revenue stream Mayor White's created!

Edited November 13, 2006 by pineda

[Houston1stWordOnTheMoon]

I think using these cameras to issue tickets to drivers is STUPID! I also think having tollways is STUPID too.

[musicman]

What a great new revenue stream Mayor White's created!

White is right

[Heights2Bastrop]

They are debating using these cameras in Austin now. I hope it passes as this is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

[TJones]

There is absolutely NO REVENUE if people obey the law now is there Pineda ?

Edited November 13, 2006 by TJones

[Pumapayam]

There is absolutely NO REVENUE if people obey the law now is there Pineda ?

True, but they did spent our tax dollars on that.

[Gary]

Although I think the government is becoming more intrusive, I don't have a problem with these camera's because I don't run red lights. Like em or not, these camera's will save lives because they create a deterant, and people will think twice as to whether they should run the light or not.

[MexAmerican_Moose]

^^^word...there are too many stupid drivers out there running red lights just because there are no cops around, pisses me off

[TJones]

True, but they did spent our tax dollars on that.

........and how much is saving one life worth Puma ? I'll gladly give up a few tax dollars if it henders just a few people from running red lights more often.

[Guest Marty]

I rather have the law looking for thieves and murders than have them looking for people running redlights.

[RedScare]

True, but they did spent our tax dollars on that.

No they didn't.

[Jeebus]

I rather have the law looking for thieves and murders than have them looking for people running redlights.

You meant this as you're glad traffic cameras are here to allow traffic officers to work patrol beats now right?

[Guest Marty]

You meant this as you're glad traffic cameras are here to allow traffic officers to work patrol beats now right?

Now you got me thinking.

[pineda]

I remember that when these cameras where first brought up before City Council for discussion that someone had mentioned a study that showed if the yellow light was extended just a few seconds longer, that would have a more beneficial effect than red-light cameras on every corner. But it was nixed in favor of this new "revenue stream", Mayor White's words, not mine.

[Mark F. Barnes]

http://www.stopphotocops.com/

http://www.photoblocker.com/www/products.html

[KinkaidAlum]

As someone who is lucky to be alive because some chick ran a red light while talking on her cell phone at the intersection of Woodway @ Voss and t-boned me on the driver's side door... good on Houston!

The worst part of the whole ordeal, besides the fact that I had a rental car completely totalled, ended up with a broken rib and a broken wrist that required a hard cast for 3 months, was that she tried to claim that she didn't run the light. Luckily, I had THREE good sumaritans who witnessed the whole event show up in court to nail her. Apparently, she blew through the light about 5 seconds after it turned red and never once hit her brakes. Her excuse? She was late for school.

Edited November 14, 2006 by KinkaidAlum

[MidtownCoog]

As someone who is lucky to be alive because some chick ran a red light while talking on her cell phone at the intersection of Woodway @ Voss and t-boned me on the driver's side door... good on Houston!

Bimbos will be bimbos.

Edited November 14, 2006 by MidtownCoog

[Heights2Bastrop]

I rather have the law looking for thieves and murders than have them looking for people running redlights.

Oftentimes, a thief will commit murder in the course of his crime, just as red light runners will often commit murder in the course of theirs.

[pineda]

new bill filed yesterday...

[CDeb]

new bill filed yesterday...

I hope that piece of crap never passes.

[pineda]

why?

[VelvetJ]

As someone who considers himeself a safe cautious driver who has never recieved a moving violation, I am against these cameras. IMO, those cameras were not installed for public safety but simply for revenue.

I also do not think it's as simple as "people just shouldn't run red lights". Let's be a little realistic here. You create environments that are conducive to high rates of speed and that is exactly what you are going to get despite what the speed limit is. There is a reason why the average speed in Times Square is not 80mph. There is a reason why there are high accident rates along the Westbelt and Bellaire and Beechnut and Bissonett, and along the whole Westbelt stretch. I think it's important to look at the environment of those areas as well. Those feeders are practically freeways and in many situations you have cars exiting the beltway onto a 3 lane wide smooth surface where the next intersection is a distance away.

IMO Houston has some of the largest roads and freeways in the nation. Plus in many parts of the city the distance between major intersections is practically a mile. You mix that with relatively smooth 2- 5 lane city streets with no obstructions or buffers such as hills or curves in a Metro area of almost 5 1/2 million people in a city that was built with the automobile as the priority, and you are going to get high rates of speed. And city officials wonder why Westpark and 59 have high accident rates.

IMO, the solution is as simple as properly timed traffic lights. If the city was so concerned about saftey of the public they would time the lights where there is at least a 3-4 second delay where all sets of traffic lights at the intersection are red before one turns green for cars to go. Or as it was stated earlier, extend the time of the yellow light.

Of course every place has red light runners. Even small towns have them. But in Houston's case I believe it's a situation of both irresponsible drivers as well as the type of environment the city of Houston has created for cars to speed. The fact teens choose Westheimer to drag race instead of Richmond is no coincidence, and Houston has more than it's share of Westheimer type environments.

note- I do not support running red lights.

Edited November 14, 2006 by VelvetJ

[nmainguy]

list of intersections in the Houston area with red-light cameras

What a great new revenue stream Mayor White's created!

I agree and applaud the Mayor and Council on raising additional revenue on the backs of red-light runners.

True, but they did spent our tax dollars on that.

No they didn't-the city will actually TAKE IN additional revenue.

I rather have the law looking for thieves and murders than have them looking for people running redlights.

We have laws for both. Now in addition we have cameras to assist the police.

I remember that when these cameras where first brought up before City Council for discussion that someone had mentioned a study that showed if the yellow light was extended just a few seconds longer, that would have a more beneficial effect than red-light cameras on every corner. But it was nixed in favor of this new "revenue stream", Mayor White's words, not mine.

So you are opposed to new revenue streams on the backs of law breakers?

As someone who is lucky to be alive because some chick ran a red light while talking on her cell phone at the intersection of Woodway @ Voss and t-boned me on the driver's side door... good on Houston!

The worst part of the whole ordeal, besides the fact that I had a rental car completely totalled, ended up with a broken rib and a broken wrist that required a hard cast for 3 months, was that she tried to claim that she didn't run the light. Luckily, I had THREE good sumaritans who witnessed the whole event show up in court to nail her. Apparently, she blew through the light about 5 seconds after it turned red and never once hit her brakes. Her excuse? She was late for school.

Even worse is when your passenger dies from the guy who ran the red light and then fled.

Oftentimes, a thief will commit murder in the course of his crime, just as red light runners will often commit murder in the course of theirs.

See above.

If you don't like the cameras, don't run red lights. If you don't want to kill an innocent motorist, don't run red lights. If you just hate White, say so and be done with it.

Edited November 14, 2006 by nmainguy

[pineda]

interesting perspective on red light cameras

Because there are no eyewitnesses, the photos in red-light-camera cases--which ACS takes, digitizes and uploads to the sheriff

Edited November 14, 2006 by pineda

[CDeb]

I'm confused:

A revenue source that only lawbreakers would have to pay is bad.

But revenue sources that everyone HAS to pay (taxes) are good?

Like I said, I'm confused, because I sure can tell you which way I would rather have the authorities collect their money.

IMO, the solution is as simple as properly timed traffic lights. If the city was so concerned about saftey of the public they would time the lights where there is at least a 3-4 second delay where all sets of traffic lights at the intersection are red before one turns green for cars to go.

There is always a tradeoff between safety and faster travel times. In your proposal, it may seem like nothing, but for a four-phase signal with a 120 second cycle length, you've just decreased the capacity of the intersection by 10% (3-sec all-red) or more (4-sec all-red). I bet that'll go over real well on many city intersections. For a three-phase signal with a 90-second cycle length, the results are similar.

Or as it was stated earlier, extend the time of the yellow light.

Yellow intervals are timed according to standard engineering practice. Increasing the yellow time will work if it is too short. But in the vast majority of cases, the yellow interval is adequate. Extending it in that case will have a reduction in red-light running in the short term. But as drivers get used to the longer yellow, the situation reverts to previous form as they begin to learn how long the signal is and what they can "get away with."

[VelvetJ]

^

But CDeb so what if the capacity of the intersection is decreased by 10%, isn't that worth saving lives since this whole thing is supposedly about public safety? Just like we are being forced to get used to Red Light cameras, we can also get used to little longer waits at "hot bed" intersections......if it will save lives and make us all safer......correct?

Another example of a dangerous intersection is the Southwest Freeway and Murphy Road/Wilcrest. As the lights for the feeders are still green, the lights for those on Wilcrest have also turned green and often have to slow up under the freeway to allow the lights on the feeder to turn red. In an environment like this, the driver is always blamed? This whole dangerous intersection thing is a "two way street" in Houston's case.

[infinite_jim]

the flash that goes off after every yellow light is really sharp & bright leading to a creepy reflecting effect through the canyon of downtown/midtown at night

[CDeb]

^

But CDeb so what if the capacity of the intersection is decreased by 10%, isn't that worth saving lives since this whole thing is supposedly about public safety? Just like we are being forced to get used to Red Light cameras, we can also get used to little longer waits at "hot bed" intersections......if it will save lives and make us all safer......correct?

It's a tradeoff. You can always go to extremes. If "the whole thing" was about public safety, setting the speed limit on Interstates to 45 MPH would certainly save lives. Putting a stop sign at every intersection would certainly save lives. But those are considered unacceptable delays to the majority of drivers.

And decreasing the capacity of the intersection isn't going to increase your wait by a mere 10%. As the volume of the intersection approaches capacity (as the V/C ratio nears 1) as many intersections in Houston are, the increase in delay due to incremental volumes becomes exponential. A 10% decrease in intersection capacity could mean 2-3 times the wait at an intersection which was already congested (i.e. - you were already waiting a good bit before). That would be an unacceptable delay to the majority of drivers.

And if you are not in the habit of running red lights, what is there to "get used to" about a red light camera?

[RedScare]

IMO Houston has some of the largest roads and freeways in the nation. Plus in many parts of the city the distance between major intersections is practically a mile. You mix that with relatively smooth 2- 5 lane city streets with no obstructions or buffers such as hills or curves in a Metro area of almost 5 1/2 million people in a city that was built with the automobile as the priority, and you are going to get high rates of speed. And city officials wonder why Westpark and 59 have high accident rates.

This is great! Last week, we had posters comparing Houston to a third world country, and complaining that everyone drove too slow.

Today, we have smooth roads making everyone drive too FAST. I love it!

[VelvetJ]

It's a tradeoff. You can always go to extremes. If "the whole thing" was about public safety, setting the speed limit on Interstates to 45 MPH would certainly save lives. Putting a stop sign at every intersection would certainly save lives. But those are considered unacceptable delays to the majority of drivers.

And decreasing the capacity of the intersection isn't going to increase your wait by a mere 10%. As the volume of the intersection approaches capacity (as the V/C ratio nears 1) as many intersections in Houston are, the increase in delay due to incremental volumes becomes exponential. A 10% decrease in intersection capacity could mean 2-3 times the wait at an intersection which was already congested (i.e. - you were already waiting a good bit before). That would be an unacceptable delay to the majority of drivers.

And if you are not in the habit of running red lights, what is there to "get used to" about a red light camera?

Well we at least are on the same page about something with regard to the both of us realizing "the whole thing" is NOT about public safety as city officials are claiming it is. This is about revenue and the constant claims it's about public safety is the most annoying thing about this situation. But almost as annoying is Houstonians who have allowed themselves to be convinced this is about public safety. This is all about money and the company that makes these cameras knows this which is why they have "given" the cameras to the city.

I personally would not like to wait any longer at traffic lights either, however if public safety is the concern to the point where cameras have to be installed, then we should be willing to make that sacrifice at certain intersections. BUT like I've already addressed, this is not about public safety.

I am not in the habit of running red lights, however we have all gone through yellow lights. Now when the front of my car goes through a yellow light but the tail end of my car is caught in the intersection in that second it turns red, will I get a $75.00 ticket? And is that fair? Am I mistaken in being under the impression certain intersection (Gessner at Beechnut is what I saw on a news broadcast) cameras will be able to be controlled by officers in a central command type building? Will they change the traffic light to "catch" more cars when more money is needed? Will I be able to dispute that officer in court? THAT is what there is to "get used to".

But back to my point of my initial post, the environments of certain intersections should be considered as well. I took a look at that list and saw the number of new cameras along service roads. What baffles me is no one has asked WHY people tend to run lights at intersections of feeder roads. Why do people tend to drive so fast on service roads? Does the environment play a role in the high level of red light runners there....I think so.