Things that irritate me

[millennica]

We are very tolerant, based on the fact that the largest minority(oxymoron!) is hispanic, (Mexican American) in Texas. But, my beef is that they need to embrace our culture as well. If they do not want to learn English, they obviously don't care about being an American. They are just here to make some money and send it back across the border because their economy sucks.

Latinos are also the largest minority is California. I understand your beef, I just don't happen to share it. Hey, valuing diversity also includes valuing diversity of opinion.

[Pumapayam]

Latinos are also the largest minority is California. I understand your beef, I just don't happen to share it. Hey, valuing diversity also includes valuing diversity of opinion.

I am trilingual

I speak broken Spanish and Farsi.

At least I am trying.

Valuing diversity does not work one way. They need to value us if we are going to value them. Spanish is not the language of America. They can still speak Spanish, but English needs to be prioritized.

[KatieDidIt]

Not only this, but if we print and provide things in EVERY SINGLE LANGUAGE that is demanded by one minority or another the bill will be enormous, not to mention confusing.

Could you imagine seeing the TXDOT signs rolling though three to four languages? YOu'd have a wreck watching just so you didn't miss the one you understood.

[Pumapayam]

That is a good point, how are all these people allowed to even drive and get a license without knowing English!

They all can't be using buses and riding bikes?

[Vertigo58]

americans will only put up with so much of a group refusing to accommodate our culture and there will be a backlash. just about everyone i know is very fed up with bilingual crap. i can understand it in the southwest but it's all over the country.

Well said, Bravo!

This is another truth/fact that I will state and not take back as I and millions know it is true. I dont want to hurt peoples feelings either. The majority of people that defend these people coming here illegally and legally are either sleeping with one (or several) of them, employing them as cheap, and I do mean cheap labor, political reasons and or along those lines. When I say sleep, trust me I'm just being good for younger viewers. As an addition further up I stated how Vietnamese make more effort to assimilate what I clearly meant was THEY realize (light comes on) to begin to try to learn English FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. Others here, took it out of context & twisted it inside & out as if to imply I meant some races are smarter than others. (new controversial topic)

Secondly, As I mentioned in other very similar topics (be sure to see Mexican anchor babies/hilarious) Others need to imagine what it is like to live next door to some of these people. Now lets make sure all understand, I'm not saying that all Mexicans are like this but we are getting some of the most horrible, crime minded, alcoholic, sex offending moochers from there. I said that it would be great to have some of the more educated respectful people we see on the Spanish stations or the like. It wouldnt be so bad. The area I am in is so saturated with poor desperate illegals it is epidemic. The local Home Depot is constantly on the news because of the illegals selling or whatever. Just last night at a nearby Seller's grocery store a young kid about 16 that seemed in perfect health "offered his services" and he spoke English. when I was that age I worked at a Dept store. I wasn't hooking in my neighborhood grocery lot. You see many of these illegals riding bikes (grown men) why? They have had too many DWI's to drive. Alcohol is a cancer in the culture. I knwo its in many others too but come on the stereotypes are true and these Mexicans only fuel thier own stereotypes. I know 3 languages and am working on another, so I am all for that. I just think I do not need to expalin to some of the jerks on this forum. These people come here as intruders ie;uninvited guests. Same as if someone just barged into your living room and squated and made themselves at home and ordered you around and demanded you accomodate them. f that.

We can all go back and forth a thousand times until our keyboards catch fire or (some of you) kick in your monitors but this illegal debate crap is going to keep going and going and going like the energizer bunny. In the mean time you bet your az I am going to keep reporting illegals, calling the cops, file complaints in person/online whatever it takes. These people are abusive bottom line. Remember, any time we are going to our townhall meetings to demand improvements, we and our children might benefit some but in reality we are making life better for these mojos, yes mojo's and in California they call them Tj's like in Tijuana. If Austin Powers said it then its ok right? Be sure to read the 1st post in Mex Anhor babies, the dude is frustrated that as an African American from the US feels violated that these people treat him 2nd class because he cant underdstand Spanish, that's wrong baby! and not "Inclusive".

Everyone go home and watch any Spanish station for a few minutes, see how cheap the women stereotype themselves. I'm making it up out of hate? Yeah right, I imagined the whole thing. So enjoy the show. Deep down inside you that support these unruly, parasites know I'm right.

I love the USA! Arrivederci!

[KatieDidIt]

That is a good point, how are all these people allowed to even drive and get a license without knowing English!

They all can't be using buses and riding bikes?

They take the written in spanish. And their driving instructors are hispanic

ALways stumped me how we give them a test in spanish yet all the street signs and information signs are in english. If they make road signs in both language, then I'm going to have major "issues."

[Pumapayam]

They take the written in spanish. And their driving instructors are hispanic

Okay, that system is just beyond me.

Who voted on this and passed this, that is just stupid.

The next thing is insurance, most don't have it.

[TheNiche]

Not only this, but if we print and provide things in EVERY SINGLE LANGUAGE that is demanded by one minority or another the bill will be enormous, not to mention confusing.

Could you imagine seeing the TXDOT signs rolling though three to four languages? YOu'd have a wreck watching just so you didn't miss the one you understood.

This is superficial. Street signs in Mexico are written in Spanish, but I'm hard pressed to find an American that can't get around. Mexicans can figure out our system as well.

But you aren't far from the mark. Any time that U.S. policy makes it easier for immigrants (particularly those that exist in large insulated communities) to avoid learning english, it is also limiting their potential to acheive higher education, do business, socially interact outside of their own ethnic group, or raise their own children. Such limitations ensure a large class of very poor immigrants...and poverty tends to breed poverty.

Millenica makes a valid point by saying that these groups usually assimilate within three generations, but is it enough that first generation immigrants coexist with us spatially, or should we try to encourage them to be able to speak English well enough that they can communicate better with us and actually share their unique experiences (if not for their own economic betterment)? I could frankly care less about speaking to the grandchild of an El Salvadorian immigrant; the only kind of diversity they offer at that point is genetic.

[Vertigo58]

Well said, Bravo!

This is another truth/fact that I will state and not take back as I and millions know it is true. I dont want to hurt peoples feelings either. The majority of people that defend these people coming here illegally and legally are either sleeping with one (or several) of them, employing them as cheap, and I do mean cheap labor, political reasons and or along those lines. When I say sleep, trust me I'm just being good for younger viewers. As an addition further up I stated how Vietnamese make more effort to assimilate what I clearly meant was THEY realize (light comes on) to begin to try to learn English FOR THEIR OWN GOOD. Others here, took it out of context & twisted it inside & out as if to imply I meant some races are smarter than others. (new controversial topic)

Secondly, As I mentioned in other very similar topics (be sure to see Mexican anchor babies/hilarious) Others need to imagine what it is like to live next door to some of these people. Now lets make sure all understand, I'm not saying that all Mexicans are like this but we are getting some of the most horrible, crime minded, alcoholic, sex offending moochers from there. I said that it would be great to have some of the more educated respectful people we see on the Spanish stations or the like. It wouldnt be so bad. The area I am in is so saturated with poor desperate illegals it is epidemic. The local Home Depot is constantly on the news because of the illegals selling or whatever. Just last night at a nearby Seller's grocery store a young kid about 16 that seemed in perfect health "offered his services" and he spoke English. when I was that age I worked at a Dept store. I wasn't hooking in my neighborhood grocery lot. You see many of these illegals riding bikes (grown men) why? They have had too many DWI's to drive. Alcohol is a cancer in the culture. I knwo its in many others too but come on the stereotypes are true and these Mexicans only fuel thier own stereotypes. I know 3 languages and am working on another, so I am all for that. I just think I do not need to expalin to some of the jerks on this forum. These people come here as intruders ie;uninvited guests. Same as if someone just barged into your living room and squated and made themselves at home and ordered you around and demanded you accomodate them. f that.

We can all go back and forth a thousand times until our keyboards catch fire or (some of you) kick in your monitors but this illegal debate crap is going to keep going and going and going like the energizer bunny. In the mean time you bet your az I am going to keep reporting illegals, calling the cops, file complaints in person/online whatever it takes. These people are abusive bottom line. Remember, any time we are going to our townhall meetings to demand improvements, we and our children might benefit some but in reality we are making life better for these mojos, yes mojo's and in California they call them Tj's like in Tijuana. If Austin Powers said it then its ok right? Be sure to read the 1st post in Mex Anhor babies, the dude is frustrated that as an African American from the US feels violated that these people treat him 2nd class because he cant underdstand Spanish, that's wrong baby! and not "Inclusive".

Everyone go home and watch any Spanish station for a few minutes, see how cheap the women stereotype themselves. I'm making it up out of hate? Yeah right, I imagined the whole thing. So enjoy the show. Deep down inside you that support these unruly, parasites know I'm right.

I love the USA! Arrivederci!

Here is one REAL important thing I left out. The day was 9/11 immediately after the towers came crashing down.

As we rushed to get our children at the local elementary school, several of the mothers that came to grab their kids out of class were going on and on about how they are taking their kids and teenage sons and going back to Mexico and that "No son of their's was going to any war". No matter what.

How many other new arrivals do you think are saying the same thing. Go back hide out then come back after the war is over. Let the US born men and women bite the bullet. How's that for patriotism?

Feel used you should. :closedeyes:

[millennica]

I am trilingual

I speak broken Spanish and Farsi.

At least I am trying.

Valuing diversity does not work one way. They need to value us if we are going to value them. Spanish is not the language of America. They can still speak Spanish, but English needs to be prioritized.

I am also trilingual; I speak, read, and write English, French and Haitian Creole, all fluently. I also speak Spanish rather poorly, so therefore don't even count it. I understand your perspective; it's just that I happen to disagree with it. I don't happen to believe that they, whoever they are don 't value us, whoever us happen to be.

[TheNiche]

I don't happen to believe that they, whoever they are don 't value us, whoever us happen to be.

Believe as you will, but it is amazing how frequently humans completely lack value for other humans.

[millennica]

Believe as you will, but it is amazing how frequently humans completely lack value for other humans.

I am not naive and do understand "how frequently humans completely lack value for other other humans." My comment was in response to Pumapayam's statement that as long as they don't value us, we don't have to value them. It suggests that they (and I am not sure who these people are, Mexican immigrants?), don't value us (not sure who us is, US citizens?) highlights the distinction between "us" and "them" and appears to characterize an entire group of people as others. As an African American who on more occasions than I care to remember has been placed in the "them" category by those in the "us" category, I don't/didn't like it. Therefore, I am loathe to do it to others. As I said in my previous posts, I do not want to get into an argument about the issue as it is clear that people on this message board hold different views on the topic. I am just surprised by the animus expressed expressed in some the posts.

[houstonmacbro]

Well, it is not an US and THEM based on race, but on breaking and entering and then expecting rights. I am African American as well, but most importantly American.

As I have said before, I am ambivalent to the whole illegal immigration issue. While on one hand I don't think we can up and ship off 20 million people (and yes, it is closer to 20 million than 11 million ... how do you think the population has increased so drastically) back to Mexico, Guatemala or wherever.

However, we can do something about it here. We do not make exceptions for Vietnamese (by and large), Ethiopians, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Nigerians, etc. to accomodate their languages, so why are we doing it for Mexicans. If I am not mistaken, the OFFICIAL language of the US is English (I could be wrong on this) and it is expected that we speak it here. That does not mean you cannot speak your native tongue, but I would be pissed if I started seeing signs in Farsi or Amharic.

This is a thorny issue and one that doesn't have an easy or politically nice solution, but changing from English to bi-lingual is going to lead us to some places I really don't think we want to go....

Also, isn't it about time we have a Illegal Immigration Topic area?

[VicMan]

IMO, we should put more emphasis on making immigrant children learn English than trying to force older people to use English.

In Texas, in order to get a high school diploma, a graduate must demonstrate some English-language writing ability. The Spanish language TAKS only goes to grade 6. After that, the kids must take TAKS in English.

[millennica]

Well, it is not an US and THEM based on race, but on breaking and entering and then expecting rights. I am African American as well, but most importantly American.

As I have said before, I am ambivalent to the whole illegal immigration issue. While on one hand I don't think we can up and ship off 20 million people (and yes, it is closer to 20 million than 11 million ... how do you think the population has increased so drastically) back to Mexico, Guatemala or wherever.

However, we can do something about it here. We do not make exceptions for Vietnamese (by and large), Ethiopians, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Nigerians, etc. to accomodate their languages, so why are we doing it for Mexicans. If I am not mistaken, the OFFICIAL language of the US is English (I could be wrong on this) and it is expected that we speak it here. That does not mean you cannot speak your native tongue, but I would be pissed if I started seeing signs in Farsi or Amharic.

This is a thorny issue and one that doesn't have an easy or politically nice solution, but changing from English to bi-lingual is going to lead us to some places I really don't think we want to go....

Also, isn't it about time we have a Illegal Immigration Topic area?

I too am American by birth. But I also place great value on my heritage as a person of African descent, as well as on the cultural, historical, social, and political foundations of the African American community, which is undoubtedly the case because of when I was born and period during which I came of age.

As I have said in several of my posts on this topic, while there are other issues that concern me greatly, I am not at all worried that the US will change from an English to a bilingual country. But I recognize that these are my feelings and my opinion and may not represent those of others. What's more, I fully expect that respect to immigration as well as with other highly charged political issues, reasonable people will disagree. So while I have no problem with people who disagree with my opinion, perspective or point of view, I am nonetheless troubled by some of the posts that exhibit animus toward immigrants.

[jmancuso]

@ vertigo: i share a lot of your frustrations but you begin to lose me with the hostile generalizations about the mexican immigrants themselves. sure, we get a lot from the bottom of the barrel but we get more who just want a better life for themselves and just do there thing.

as for the english/ spanish dilemma...we as a society allowed this to happen and now we need to address it. mexican immigrants have come to expect us to cater to them in spanish becuase that's exactly what we done. had we not enabled them in the first place, we would not having this discussion. millions of immigrants came from europe spoke little to no english but becuase the US wasn't about to accommodate their language they and their children assimilated into english and then american culture in general. we can't prevent private companies from targeting customers in spanish but we can make government documents, signs and so on in english only...not to mention make english the official language.

[TheNiche]

I am not naive and do understand "how frequently humans completely lack value for other other humans." My comment was in response to Pumapayam's statement that as long as they don't value us, we don't have to value them. It suggests that they (and I am not sure who these people are, Mexican immigrants?), don't value us (not sure who us is, US citizens?) highlights the distinction between "us" and "them" and appears to characterize an entire group of people as others. As an African American who on more occasions than I care to remember has been placed in the "them" category by those in the "us" category, I don't/didn't like it. Therefore, I am loathe to do it to others. As I said in my previous posts, I do not want to get into an argument about the issue as it is clear that people on this message board hold different views on the topic. I am just surprised by the animus expressed expressed in some the posts.

Puma does have a point, although I'll grant you that it is poorly-defined. Being a professor of anthropology, you're probably in a better position to structure the argument in a coherent and meaningful way than just about anyone on this forum. Cultural issues that introduce the individual vs. group concepts just get tricky and for the lay person, it isn't easy to express what we really mean to say. You're going to have to read between the lines and bear with us. Whatever you do, please do not forgo an argument because different people have vastly different opinions--in my opinion, there is no better reason to get in an argument than just that.

[RedScare]

Some intereting statistics from the US Census...

http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t37/tab01a.pdf

Of the 262 million people living in the US who are over 5 years of age, over 82% speak ONLY English. Of the 49 million who speak another language, 28 million of them speak Spanish.

However, of that 28 million, 72% of them ALSO SPEAK ENGLISH well or very well. Another 18% speak English, though not too well. Only 10% of the Spanish speakers, 2.8 million, do not speak English at all, a percentage nearly equal to the percentage of Chinese who do not speak English. Of ALL other languages spoken, 3.5 million do not speak English at all, just over 1% of the total US population.

Considering the number of posters on this forum predicting that the entire US would soon be speaking Spanish, I would have expected a far bigger percentage than a measly 1%.....you don't think anyone was exagerating, do you?

[musicman]

Considering the number of posters on this forum predicting that the entire US would soon be speaking Spanish, I would have expected a far bigger percentage than a measly 1%.....you don't think anyone was exagerating, do you?

good numbers, it just surprises me at how many people i know who don't speak english and have little encouragement to do so. quite a few of my neighbors don't speak english but their children do things for them in english when necessary. my grandma at 95, still makes an attempt to read the newspaper daily so she can improve her english. she only has a 3rd grade education but realizes the importance of learning english.

[millennica]

Some intereting statistics from the US Census...

http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t37/tab01a.pdf

Of the 262 million people living in the US who are over 5 years of age, over 82% speak ONLY English. Of the 49 million who speak another language, 28 million of them speak Spanish.

However, of that 28 million, 72% of them ALSO SPEAK ENGLISH well or very well. Another 18% speak English, though not too well. Only 10% of the Spanish speakers, 2.8 million, do not speak English at all, a percentage nearly equal to the percentage of Chinese who do not speak English. Of ALL other languages spoken, 3.5 million do not speak English at all, just over 1% of the total US population.

Considering the number of posters on this forum predicting that the entire US would soon be speaking Spanish, I would have expected a far bigger percentage than a measly 1%.....you don't think anyone was exagerating, do you?

Thanks for this information, RedScare. It really puts the language issue into perspective and suggests that the reality is often out of line with people's beliefs about a situation.

[nmainguy]

Believe as you will, but it is amazing how frequently humans completely lack value for other humans.

That is an odd statement considering niche's contempt for human life. The regulars here know of what I speak. The new-comers will just have to research it for themselves.

I've cut Vertigo alot of slack but that rope has reached it's end.

Most of the rest of you just live up to the uneducated view of parrot. It's not my job to educate you on the facts...it's yours if you so choose.

[KinkaidAlum]

Well they wouldn't pure and simple. The US just rolls over and let people use it.

I was at WAMU the other day and had forgotten my deposit slips, so I grabbed one from the box. I went completely cross eyed. It was swimming with words from both languages, and due to the way Spanish is, it was the majority of the words. It literally took me a minute to figure out where to write what. I parked my car and went into talk to the bank manager. He claimed they had to make this switch because a large portion of their clients is Hispanic.....This is The Woodlands.

What about the other large portion of their clents.........the 70%+ that are American??????????????

Go to a country learn their language. Respect their culture if you are going to USE THEIR SYSTEM. IF you are goingto drive on their roads, register your car and pay for that countries inspections. Don't demand special treatment OVER those born there. Assimilate Don't Dominate.

Ummmm, if you are of some European descent, aren't you just being a hypocrit or did the rules just change for you after your (and my) ancestors annihilated numerous Native cultures? Take a trip to an Indian reservation and then get back to me if you think White America has always honored other cultures and languages.

Unless you are a Kiowa, Chickasaw, Sioux, Mohegan, Apache, Comanche, Tejas, Pawnee, Chippewa, etc...you too are a descendant of an immigrant.

[RedScare]

Thanks for this information, RedScare. It really puts the language issue into perspective and suggests that the reality is often out of line with people's beliefs about a situation.

The reality is very much out of sync with perception. Vertigo's rant is a prime example. It is chock full of incorrect assumptions and outright fabrications. But, it does little good to point them out, as the real point of his rant and a few others is that these immigrants do not LOOK like him, do not TALK like him, and do not ACT like like him, therefore, they should not be allowed to LIVE next to him.

It is interesting to observe demands that immigrants act like us. Is it any different than the complaint that some Blacks (especially athletes) show off too much, or dress funny? Is it any different than the complaints that Gays are too flamboyant, liberals are too promiscuous and immoral, kids these days don't respect their elders and listen to bad music? It may be different in the sense that one is called xenophobia, while another is called racism, and a third is called old age, but it is all intolerance.

Most would agree that there needs to be some order to the US immigration system. But, when the discussion so quickly devolves to denigrating the perceived traits of the immigrants, it is hard not to believe that the gripe of some people is not the system, but the immigrants themselves. Coming from a nation of immigrants, especially one with a history of mistreating the natives, as ours is, it smacks of rank hypocrisy.

[spikey2]

It bothers me when any foreign flag is paraded on American soil.

I work as a manager for a large hotel in the downtown area, when 911 occurred We had a large number of guest demanding that we take down all the foreign flags flaying in front of our hotel. At that time we had the Mexican, Saudi, Turkish,French, British, Canadian and Japanese along side the Texas and USA flags. These flags represented our primary customer base, I have no problem with making them feel welcome but flying their flags 24/7 is different.

After 911 we have flown only the Mexican,British and Canadian flags. Still we get occasional complaints concerning having the Mexican flag on the building.

As the topic for this tread has gotten way off base, let me stretch it a little more. I work with over 70 Hispanic employees daily, they are all legal, work hard and speak enough English to get by. To call these people stupid or lazy or any of the demeaning terms I have read here is unfair.Yes many did come here illegally and did what it took to become legal. They all have families in Mexico, El Salvador, Cuba etc. and nearly every one of them works 2 or more jobs in order to send something back to family in their old countries. We may not like it, but our government has made it very easy for Hispanics to come here to do work we Americans don't want to do. Most don't want to be here, but their only other choice is to stay in their countries and starve to death. We Americans have given billions of dollars to the puppet governments in power south of the border, making banana dictators rich, while the people of those countries can't afford to buy a loaf of bread with their countries money. We compare them to the Asians who become instant success stories, sorry to break your bubbles but in inner city neighborhoods from the west coast to the east coast those mom and pop Asian stores that seem to be on every corner are nothing but fronts for food stamp fraud, and drug selling.

[Jeebus]

That is an odd statement considering niche's contempt for human life. The regulars here know of what I speak. The new-comers will just have to research it for themselves.

I'm a regular and have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you could provide some examples, since there must be so many.

[Jeebus]

We do not make exceptions for Vietnamese (by and large)

We're starting to. Harris County buildings are starting to put up signs in Vietnamese next to the Spanish signs, that are next to the English signs. Per the Chronicle last week, Vietnamese number about 62,000 in Harris county, or about one percent of the total metro. I think that makes them them second biggest non-English speaking community behind the Hispanic community.

Here is one REAL important thing I left out. The day was 9/11 immediately after the towers came crashing down.

As we rushed to get our children at the local elementary school, several of the mothers that came to grab their kids out of class were going on and on about how they are taking their kids and teenage sons and going back to Mexico and that "No son of their's was going to any war". No matter what.

How many other new arrivals do you think are saying the same thing. Go back hide out then come back after the war is over. Let the US born men and women bite the bullet. How's that for patriotism?

Feel used you should. :closedeyes:

The same thing happened during the Vietnam War. Except that time, it was our own U.S. Citizens running to Canada. So what's the difference this time? Cowardice is just that: cowardice.

[Jeebus]

Ummmm, if you are of some European descent, aren't you just being a hypocrit or did the rules just change for you after your (and my) ancestors annihilated numerous Native cultures? Take a trip to an Indian reservation and then get back to me if you think White America has always honored other cultures and languages.

Unless you are a Kiowa, Chickasaw, Sioux, Mohegan, Apache, Comanche, Tejas, Pawnee, Chippewa, etc...you too are a descendant of an immigrant.

When it comes to KateDidIt's arguement, you could argue that the Native American tribes were never organized or claimed a certain land definitively as their "country".

I wouldn't, but one could.

[VicMan]

When it comes to KateDidIt's arguement, you could argue that the Native American tribes were never organized or claimed a certain land definitively as their "country".

I wouldn't, but one could.

According to a National Geographic insert, the Native Americans boasted larger populations than Europeans initially believed. Well, boasted is appropriate as disease coursed through the Natives after the Europeans arrived - even populations that never saw Europeans were felled by European diseases.

[KatieDidIt]

Well, lets assume you don't know my heritage...........

Secondly, thank goodness we are capable of learning from the mistakes made in history. Today's generation should NOT be held accountible for the actions of anyone's ancestors, but learn from their errors. No race should continually get the "guilty finger" pointed at them 100's of years after the fact. I certainly didn't blame my hard times on the oppression of my acestors. This drives me crazy. Nor should the past be covered up or irradicated, like the pulling down of Confederate statues.

Do Native Mexicans curse Spain? This I don't know, maybe they do.

This is now. The problem is now. We aren't saying they CAN'T live here if they come in legally and want to at least repect what America is and attempt to assimulate. Many are saying that we shouldn't and won't bend over backwards to make it easy for those that refuse to adopt American culture, or even curse and protest it, and expect a free handout.

Its better than Mexico here..they know it and we know. I'm curious why they want to be here so badly, yet don't want to respect the US and all the freebies they get just for crossing the border? Its not like we shackled them and drug them from their homeland to come here........... If they keep using the handouts and working the system, it WILL eventually hurt this country.

But who knows, maybe 500 years from now the Anglos won't have to pay taxes and run huge casinos on their reservations in the Hamptons.

[TheNiche]

I'm a regular and have no idea what you're talking about. Maybe you could provide some examples, since there must be so many.

He's just pissed off because I told him that being gay didn't make him special and that it is no more or less of a thing to be proud of than being straight or what have you.

He'll probably also provide a link to an old immigration thread in which I proposed not to provide any government services to illegal immigrants (including emergency healthcare), but to open up our borders to just about anyone that wants to come insofar as they go through the system for security and documentation purposes, a move that removes any incentive whatsoever for law-abiding persons to immigrate illegally.