Gas Prices

[Highway6]

Bee County leaders urging boycott of Exxon Mobil

" County officials said they targeted Exxon Mobil because they are the largest oil company in the United States and hoped competitors, like San Antonio-based Valero, would be motivated to enter into a price war, driving the cost of fuel down."

Link

I hope this at least makes them feel better.. It's too bad none of them are economics majors.

[MidtownCoog]

Yea. Valero cares.

Valero reports 59% profit jump

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headli...iz/3820096.html

[desirous]

Valero is a gigantic company too; what are they expecting? Rofl.

[TJones]

$16 billion in profits for the first quarter for the oil companies. Keep on pumping America !

[sevfiv]

$16 billion in profits for the first quarter for the oil companies. Keep on pumping America !

no s**t - the only effective boycott is to stop buying gas

[TJones]

no s**t - the only effective boycott is to stop buying gas

Sev, I don't think that not purchasing gas is the answer, it is WHERE you purchase. You only have to boycott the biggest 3 or 4 for them to realize the problem. Keep Valero in the black for a couple of months, stay away from EXxon-Mobile, Shell, and Chevron. They will fall in line pretty darn quick. It is a double edged sword though. Do you support a jackass that trashes our country, just so you can make a difference in the long run ? ARRRRGGHH ! I think this has already been covered in another thread though.

[sevfiv]

Sev, I don't think that not purchasing gas is the answer, it is WHERE you purchase. You only have ot boycott the biggest 3 or 4 for them to realize the problem. Keep Valero in the black for a couple of months, stay away form EXxon-Mobile, Shell, and Chevron. They will fall in line pretty darn quick. It is a double edged sword though. Do you support a jackass that trashes our country, just so you can make a difference in the long run ? ARRRRGGHH ! I think this has already been covered in another thread though.

riiiiiight - i'm really sure that exurbian commuters will fill up their H3's and tahoe's at Valero

[Highway6]

Sev, I don't think that not purchasing gas is the answer, it is WHERE you purchase. You only have ot boycott the biggest 3 or 4 for them to realize the problem. Keep Valero in the black for a couple of months, stay away form EXxon-Mobile, Shell, and Chevron. They will fall in line pretty darn quick. It is a double edged sword though. Do you support a jackass that trashes our country, just so you can make a difference in the long run ? ARRRRGGHH ! I think this has already been covered in another thread though.

I think you're exactly wrong.

Where doesnt matter.

If you boycott a few, or the biggest 3 or 4.. the same amount of gas will be consumed.. but at a limited amount of suppliers. Those places will be forced to buy from the ones we're boycotting to keep up. We'll end up paying even more.

Gas and oil companies trade all the time.. and filling stations get gas from multiple suppliers.

It the amount consumed that matters, not shifting the same amount around.

I didn't reazlie there was another recent gas thread.. someone will combine them if they need to be.

[sunsets]

Gas and oil companies trade all the time.. and filling stations get gas from multiple suppliers.

Exactly - gas is supplied from all different sources. So by boycotting all the Exxon stations, all you're doing is driving the owners of the franchises out of business. You won't make a dent in oil company profits, you'll just hurt the neighborhood convenience store owner.

[bachanon]

does anyone know who supplies sam's club?

i guess i've inadvertantly boycotted shell, texaco and exxon in order to buy gas a nickel per gallon cheaper at sam's, or is that just smart shopping?

[TJones]

does anyone know who supplies sam's club?

i guess i've inadvertantly boycotted shell, texaco and exxon in order to buy gas a nickel per gallon cheaper at sam's, or is that just smart shopping?

Bach, that is Murphy Oil, a kind of mom and pop operation. The problem with their gas is that it doesn't have the detergents and additives like the bigger companies, so you get a cheaper quality gas. You get what you pay for though, and it will work fine just remember to add a fuel injector cleaner with every 3rd fill-up.

[MidtownCoog]

I don't think I'd even put Murphy Oil (gas) in my lawn mower.

[sevfiv]

yeah, detergents are nice...

i think it's funny when someone drives miles out of their way to get gas that's a few cents cheaper (just a reminder - five cents per gallon more is only fifty cents for every ten gallons )

[editor]

no s**t - the only effective boycott is to stop buying gas

Done. Except for rental cars when I'm driving into the northwoods of Minnesota to visit the in-laws, I haven't bought gas in almost two years.

In many parts of the country, it doesn't matter what BRAND of gas station you go to -- it's all the same gas. That's why part of congressman Rahm Emmanuel's recent proposal includes ending local fuel monopolies. Individual distributorships have territories and supply ALL the gas in those territories, whether it's an Exxon station or Williams, or BP, or Sinclair, or Shell, or whatever.

I've heard there are exceptions to this rule in some places for company-owned gas stations, but company-owned stations were fairly rare until recently.

I say that because a couple of years ago thousands of Texaco stations across the country suddenly became Shell stations because Royal Dutch Shell bought the independent company that owned the stations.

It seems that now that Americans have become used to buying milk and magazines and microwave burritos at gas stations the profit marging are high enough that the oil companies are interested in actually owning the gas stations again.

So... I guess I just negated my original point.

Does anyone know the truth? Will going to a Shell station instead of Exxon send a message to either company, or just to some middleman distributor who doesn't care what brand we buy because he gets paid either way?

[TJones]

Gas and oil companies trade all the time.. and filling stations get gas from multiple suppliers.

Hwy6, Oil companies may trade raw crude, but they certainly don't trade refined Chevron Techron for Shell's Brand X. Gas, is indeed, NOT gas. These companies aren't gonna sell a few tankers to each other, when they think they have the "better" product, and make people loyal to their brand think that the guy down the street has the same stuff.

[RedScare]

Does anyone know the truth? Will going to a Shell station instead of Exxon send a message to either company, or just to some middleman distributor who doesn't care what brand we buy because he gets paid either way?

I know my brother, who works for Exxon, says they laugh every time they get those emails. I also know that Exxon is the 2nd largest oil company in the world. I know that Exxon's refinineries produce approximately 11% of the gasoline used in the US. I know that US refineries regularly run at 95% of capacity. I know that Hurricane Katrina shut in 20% of US refining capacity.

So, if somehow all Americans decided to quit buying Exxon gas overnight, refining capacity would drop from 95% to 84%, almost the same as when Katrina hit. Katrina caused gas prices to go up 45 cents. Sounds like the wrong direction.

I also know that oil and gas is bought and sold by middlemen all over the world. "Russian" oil may well be Iranian oil bought by a Russian middleman. US refiners, like Exxon and Valero sell to lots of companies, not just their branded ones. So, if these non-Exxon stations experience a big increase in sales due to a boycott, they'll buy gas from Exxon, who has plenty to sell.

Exxon has 1.8 million barrels of refining capacity. You can't bring them down with a boycott? Why? Well, all of us who own Exxon stock will still buy Exxon for one thing. For another, people buy conveniently. If most of the stations are Exxon, they will buy Exxon. Third, most of us know that the high price is not due to one thing, but many. Fourth, the biggest reason prices are high is that we use more than they can make.

Take the bus!

[YakuzaIce]

I knew this topic seemed familiar.

Previous ExxonMobil boycott topic

Moderator edit: Edited to fix issue with registered trademark symbol in URL. The link works now! ~ssullivan

[cwrm4]

Hwy6, Oil companies may trade raw crude, but they certainly don't trade refined Chevron Techron for Shell's Brand X. Gas, is indeed, NOT gas. These companies aren't gonna sell a few tankers to each other, when they think they have the "better" product, and make people loyal to their brand think that the guy down the street has the same stuff.

Gasoline is traded as a commodity. When the tankers are filled to head out to the stations, a proprietary additive pack is added to the gas. The additive pack is what makes Chevron's gas "Techron". But the gasoline itself may have been refined by Exxon.

Also, as RedScare pointed out, brand loyalty is diminishing in favor of convenience.

[DJ V Lawrence]

no s**t - the only effective boycott is to stop buying gas

Oye Oye Oye. Did you know that in Iran, a gallon of gas only costs 40 cents?! (reported from Wolf Blitzer on CNN). Part of that is because Iran has the second largest oil reserve, and was discussing how different the Bush administration's stance on the need for oil reserves were compared to Jimmy Carter during his admin, when he pushed for less dependancy of foriegn oil.

I don't think American oil prices will decrease until we stop buying gas...as in more people using an alternative to gas. Imagine how expensive gas will be in America in 20 years...

[cwrm4]

Watching CNN tonight, I think Bush must be confused, as from one side of his mouth he says "America is addicted to foreign oil" and from the other side of his mouth he utters "we must increase supply and reduce prices as high gas prices are a hidden tax on the working man".

Ummm, Mr. Bush, lowering the price of gas will not reduce our dependence on oil.

I recently read a study that showed that, even on a week-to-week basis, sales of mid to large-size SUVs are directly correlated to the price of gas (talk about your short sighted purchasing decisions!). The study also showed that, when gas prices are high, Americans tend to set their A/C higher and heat lower on the thermostat.

The lower the price of gas, the more we will consume, and the more suspectible we are to skyrocketing gas prices when demand outstrips supply due to hurricanes, Chavez, hoarding in China, or any number of other reasons.

[XLR8]

There was a great show on the Science Channel the other week explaining how gasoline is mostly distributed by pipeline throughout the U.S. with most of the pipelines starting in Houston! Thus we make most of the gasoline for the country. Oil companies typically do not have their own pipelines.

Instead they put their gasoline into the nationwide pipeline system and they get credit for the amount they put in. That means all gasoline starts out the same throughout the U.S. The difference is that they put additives (like cleaning agents) in at the end point before they truck it to the gas station. That's the marketing piece you see at the pump.

In fact they put batches of diesel in the same pipeline and drain off the mixture of diesel and gasoline to be re-refined later on. It's all computer controlled and they know exactly where the differnent mixtures start and end.

This show helped clear up a lot of misunderstandings I had.

There's also the whole MTBE additive leaking in the water drama going on right now that's also causing gas to go up in price, but that's another story for another day.

[RedScare]

So, what's worse? Calls for boycotts by idiots who don't understand the laws of economics...or $100 rebate checks by idiots who don't understand the laws of economics?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3823911.html

"WASHINGTON

[RedScare]

Bee County Exxon Boycott Causes Increase In Sales

"County Judge Jimmy Martinez said he considered the campaign a success.

"We've been featured in radio and television programs across the country because of our efforts and people are taking notice," Martinez said. "We wanted to represent our constituents and we did."

Reminds me of Bill O'Reilly's "successful" boycott of France that caused an increase in French exports to the United States.

[editor]

I know my brother, who works for Exxon, says they laugh every time they get those emails.

The reason I ask is because I've seen it. When I lived in Pennsylvania (1989-1991 area) the crappy no-name convenience store down the street would get filled up by tankers with Mobil, Exxon, and Amoco logos as well as generic local distributor names on them. It always appeared to me that they just bought whatever gas was cheapest that day.

Oye Oye Oye. Did you know that in Iran, a gallon of gas only costs 40 cents?! (reported from Wolf Blitzer on CNN). Part of that is because Iran has the second largest oil reserve,

I bet it has a lot more to do with supply and demand as well as government subsidies and plain old currency exchange than their reserves.

Wisconsin has huge untapped reserves of milk, but the price of cheese isn't much cheaper there than anywhere else.

So, what's worse? Calls for boycotts by idiots who don't understand the laws of economics...or $100 rebate checks by idiots who don't understand the laws of economics?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3823911.html

"WASHINGTON

[RedScare]

So, does everyone get the rebate, or just people with a car? And if you have more than one car do you get more than one check? Will Bill Gates get like 30 checks? Will people who take public transportation be punished and not get a check because they do the right thing?

I believe it is only those with SUVs. Because, let's face it, you people driving compacts and hybrids really aren't getting hit that hard. I mean, come on. 60 mpg? That's, what, 5 cents a mile? Those patriotic Americans driving American built Suburbans and Hummers are getting slaughtered at 10 mpg. That's 30 cents a mile! They're doing their part, buying American. We should be helping them. In fact, the half of the country driving imports should give up their $100 so we can give these patriots TWO hundred bucks!

[XLR8]

Problem is that these days most vehicles have parts and technology from all over the planet and most car companies are global owning companies. It's such a gray area. Ford owns Volvo, Jaguar, and basically Mazda to name a few. GM - Saab amongst many others.

Toyota (here in the U.S. since the 60's) pretty much builds all of it's vehicles in the U.S. providing American jobs so basically if you look a the definition of what is an American vehicle based on where it's assembled and perhaps designed these days (the new Tundra coming out is being built in San Antonio and was completely designed from the ground up in the US by Americans), Toyota is thus as much an American company even if it's corporate parent is Japan. Just like Jaguar is British but owned by Ford.

I have more an issue with American companies being totally clueless to the products Americans want to buy right now. For instance, Ford U.K. has an updated very sporty looking Focus that is available with a Diesel that gets great MPGs that rivals the hybrids. It looks great and gets good mileage. Coming to the U.S? Umm. Well. Uhh. They could have probably sold alot of them right now. Instead we get the crap they are rolling out right now like the 500 and Fusion. WTF?

Check out the U.K. Ford website and you will probably be like me, why isn't this sold here?

They will either figure it out or run the compan into the ground.

[H-Town Man]

I believe it is only those with SUVs. Because, let's face it, you people driving compacts and hybrids really aren't getting hit that hard. I mean, come on. 60 mpg? That's, what, 5 cents a mile? Those patriotic Americans driving American built Suburbans and Hummers are getting slaughtered at 10 mpg. That's 30 cents a mile! They're doing their part, buying American. We should be helping them. In fact, the half of the country driving imports should give up their $100 so we can give these patriots TWO hundred bucks!

The average compact car only gets around 30-35 mpg, and the average truck/suburban gets around 15-20. American companies make compact cars as well as foreign companies - I don't think anyone ever decided to get a truck instead of a compact car solely for the reason of being patriotic. Good grief, did a patriotic person beat you up or something?

[kjb434]

The fact that gas is cheap in Iran has nothing to with it having a lot of oil. Iran has no oil refineries that can produce gas for cars. Iran imports all of its oil.

Also, Iran imports more oil based products than the oil they export. Oil based products outside of simple gasoline such as lubricants, plastics, polymers, rubber, asphalt, etc.

The cheap gas comes from the Saudis who do have gas refineries.

The easy solution to gas prices in the US is to expand and build more refineries. BP is planning to build the world's largest refinery in Port Arthur. Much of the environmental regulations also cause prices to go up.

What's silly is that every nation that has access to oil reserves on land or offshor is going after it yet the US just sits here because of regulations that make it difficult to drill for oil.

Mexico is drilling in the gulf and pacific, yet we don't dare drill off our west coast or florida because some people don't want to see oil rig lights off in the horizon at sea. Norway is putting up oil rigs all over it's coastline and in the north see. Russia and china are also drilling of their coasts.

We need to relax some of these silly rules and start actually using what we have (which is plenty).

[TJones]

I believe it is only those with SUVs. Because, let's face it, you people driving compacts and hybrids really aren't getting hit that hard. I mean, come on. 60 mpg? That's, what, 5 cents a mile? Those patriotic Americans driving American built Suburbans and Hummers are getting slaughtered at 10 mpg. That's 30 cents a mile! They're doing their part, buying American. We should be helping them. In fact, the half of the country driving imports should give up their $100 so we can give these patriots TWO hundred bucks!

Red, you are absolutely right, so, I am gonna come get my extra $100 from YOU !

[AftonAg]

The fact that gas is cheap in Iran has nothing to with it having a lot of oil. Iran has no oil refineries that can produce gas for cars. Iran imports all of its oil.

Also, Iran imports more oil based products than the oil they export. Oil based products outside of simple gasoline such as lubricants, plastics, polymers, rubber, asphalt, etc.

The cheap gas comes from the Saudis who do have gas refineries.

The easy solution to gas prices in the US is to expand and build more refineries. BP is planning to build the world's largest refinery in Port Arthur. Much of the environmental regulations also cause prices to go up.

What's silly is that every nation that has access to oil reserves on land or offshor is going after it yet the US just sits here because of regulations that make it difficult to drill for oil.

Mexico is drilling in the gulf and pacific, yet we don't dare drill off our west coast or florida because some people don't want to see oil rig lights off in the horizon at sea. Norway is putting up oil rigs all over it's coastline and in the north see. Russia and china are also drilling of their coasts.

We need to relax some of these silly rules and start actually using what we have (which is plenty).

You are correct on this point. The major oil companies are now bringing some projects online offshore of West Africa. ExxonMobil just brought on online this spring in 1200 meters of water, that has steel lines connecting the wells on the seafloor (through a manifold) to what is basically a 2,000,000 barrel tanker with a crude refining unit sitting on it's deck, it also has a 110 bed "hotel" on board for the workers. Think about the dynamics involved in making a connection to a boat bobbing on the surface of the ocean in three dimensions. This is actually the third such development of it's type for ExxonMobil. And there have been zero leaks. The technology is there, it can be done without spilling any oil or seriously disrupting the environment in any way. Oil companies go to gret lengths to make certain they don't spill any oil - it is bad publicity number 1, and it is a loss of profit and an additional expense to clean it up.