NRG Park Mixed-Use Development

[danes75]

ha... well yes, in today's world, liberal has become synonymous with democrat.

i agree danax, some houston industries would be hard hit if the plethora of illegality were suddenly unavailable. but if an illegal mexican immigrant can afford to support 3 kids, a wife, and still send money home to the rest of his family, then pray tell, how is it that a single man with no debt cannot do the same? personally, i feel that, like respect, you must earn the right to demand. it kind of reminds me of Chevy Chases' brother in law on N.L.'s Christmas Vacation. they're all holding out for management jobs.

[Subdude]

being homeless is a mindset and just plain laziness. i've often thought it was ironic that, with houston having such a large hispanic population, there are still more white and black homeless than any other race. why is that? because they've come to expect things to be given to them instead of working. why work when you can get food and clothes for free?

when someone pisses in their clothes because its easier than getting up off the ground, they don't deserve charity -- they deserve an all expense paid trip to Army boot camp.

"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[LarryDallas]

The fundamental problem with the Dome area has to do with corporate sponsorship and the influence Reliant has on what is done with what should be public buildings 100% free of corporate influence. Prior to the area being renamed Reliant Park the Harris County Sports Authority used to maintain the Dome and did so for over 3 decades.

Once Reliant came in things got bad because the area was developed fast to get that super bowl in. Sure that one weekend pumped money into Houston but look at the after effects. It just looks plain stupid to have 2 giant stadiums next to e/o. The beauty and futuristic look of the free standing dome is forever gone. I can recall going to the dome as a kid in the 90s and parking wayyyy far from the building cause there were too many cars in the lot. Now they have added a bigger stadium as well as Reliant Center which reduced parking spaces in that complex. The did buy out the people in the block west of the park to make additional parking but what good did that do?

I would speculate they wanted to get rid of the lower income businesses and motels that used to be on South Main. It was gentrification plain and simple. I'm all for progress but driving family owned business from the land by buying out the lardlord's building and lease is wrong even though it is legal. If Reliant wanted a squeeky clean new looking park developed they should have broken ground in some other area. There are acres upon acres of undeveloped lands south of loop 610 on hwy 288. Metro could have added a rail line with ease and it would be a 10-15 minute drive from downtown.

Reliant stadium is a very risky build simply because Bob McNair is no spring chicken. I don't follow sports deals much so I can't say if he signed some agreement to keep the Texans here for decades but if he didn't who is to say his family won't sell and/or move the team after he dies. Things are usually all about the bottom line in business. When trying to get an NFL team McNair said what everyone wanted to hear bout loyality to the city and keeping the NFL in town. After he is gone the future is a question.

As for the dome, it should be converted to a museum with all of the key moments in Houston history. Each floor should have the seats gutted to make way for displays. They should leave a strip of seats from the floor level to the upper decks as is to show people the famous Astros rainbow design in the seats at the top. NASA is supposedly builiding a structure around the rockets it has on display outside. A better idea would be to have them moved to the dome (at a high one time cost) and house them there permanently for climate controlled perservation.

This museum should not be art or scinece but more of a sociological one with many atrifacts from people who shaped the town. Jesse Jones and Howard Hughes should have entire floors dedicated to them. They just need to cover important stuff like the medical center, the major universities, a bit on NASA as a tie in to what they can see out in Clear Lake, etc. There are many possibilities.

The city would have to somehow buy out Reliant's claim to the dome to do this and also have some sort of divide made in the parking lot to allow for low cost or free parking to go see this museum. I'm sure the outragious rate out there would turn off everyone but tourists if museum goers had to pay what sports fans do. If admission was reasonable I think it would be world class. There is too much history in that building for it to do anything but be a preserved museum.

BTW, there is a movie Ryan O'Neil was in during the 60's which was filmed entirely in Houston. There is a shot of the dome in it during construction. Around the dome is open grassland as far as you can see. You would never recognize it if not for the done. I highly recommend this film to anyone who is a history buff. They have many great shot of homes in River Oaks, the museum district, the sidney sherman 610 ship channel bridge, etc.

The movie is called "The Thief Who Came to Dinner"

[Houston19514]

The fundamental problem with the Dome area has to do with corporate sponsorship and the influence Reliant has on what is done with what should be public buildings 100% free of corporate influence.  Prior to the area being renamed Reliant Park the Harris County Sports Authority used to maintain the Dome and did so for over 3 decades.

Once Reliant came in things got bad because the area was developed fast to get that super bowl in.  Sure that one weekend pumped money into Houston but look at the after effects.  It just looks plain stupid to have 2 giant stadiums next to e/o.  The beauty and futuristic look of the free standing dome is forever gone.  I can recall going to the dome as a kid in the 90s and parking wayyyy far from the building cause there were too many cars in the lot.  Now they have added a bigger stadium as well as Reliant Center which reduced parking spaces in that complex.  The did buy out the people in the block west of the park to make additional parking but what good did that do?

I would speculate they wanted to get rid of the lower income businesses and motels that used to be on South Main.  It was gentrification plain and simple.  I'm all for progress but driving family owned business from the land by buying out the lardlord's building and lease is wrong even though it is legal.  If Reliant wanted a squeeky clean new looking park developed they should have broken ground in some other area.  There are acres upon acres of undeveloped lands south of loop 610 on hwy 288.  Metro could have added a rail line with ease and it would be a 10-15 minute drive from downtown. 

Reliant stadium is a very risky build simply because Bob McNair is no spring chicken.  I don't follow sports deals much so I can't say if he signed some agreement to keep the Texans here for decades but if he didn't who is to say his family won't sell and/or move the team after he dies.  Things are usually all about the bottom line in business.  When trying to get an NFL team McNair said what everyone wanted to hear bout loyality to the city and keeping the NFL in town.  After he is gone the future is a question.

As for the dome, it should be converted to a museum with all of the key moments in Houston history.  Each floor should have the seats gutted to make way for displays.  They should leave a strip of seats from the floor level to the upper decks as is to show people the famous Astros rainbow design in the seats at the top.  NASA is supposedly builiding a structure around the rockets it has on display outside.  A better idea would be to have them moved to the dome (at a high one time cost) and house them there permanently for climate controlled perservation. 

This museum should not be art or scinece but more of a sociological one with many atrifacts from people who shaped the town.  Jesse Jones and Howard Hughes should have entire floors dedicated to them.  They just need to cover important stuff like the medical center, the major universities, a bit on NASA as a tie in to what they can see out in Clear Lake, etc.  There are many possibilities. 

The city would have to somehow buy out Reliant's claim to the dome to do this and also have some sort of divide made in the parking lot to allow for low cost or free parking to go see this museum.  I'm sure the outragious rate out there would turn off everyone but tourists if museum goers had to pay what sports fans do.  If admission was reasonable I think it would be world class.  There is too much history in that building for it to do anything but be a preserved museum.

BTW, there is a movie Ryan O'Neil was in during  the 60's which was filmed entirely in Houston.  There is a shot of the dome in it during construction.  Around the dome is open grassland as far as you can see.  You would never recognize it if not for the done.  I highly recommend this film to anyone who is a history buff.  They have many great shot of homes in River Oaks, the museum district, the sidney sherman 610 ship channel bridge, etc. 

The movie is called "The Thief Who Came to Dinner"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Editor, since there is almost nothing correct in the entire quoted post, could you please just go ahead and delete it?

[tony]

Editor, since there is almost nothing correct in the entire quoted post, could you please just go ahead and delete it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not so quick. 'They' did get rid of some low-income businesses on South Main. They weren't exactly selling sandwiches though. (lol)

[The Great Hizzy!]

^^^^ LOL

[LarryDallas]

Editor, since there is almost nothing correct in the entire quoted post, could you please just go ahead and delete it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You sound like a Reliant Employee to be so highly critical of me. I just tell it like it is pal. South Main was gentrified plain and simple. The businesses on South Main did "sell" a lot of things but that was their business. I used to work in the med center when I was a student so I am very familiar with the area. Those places might have been undesirable to have around in the city but they were not illegal. When the intrests of a corporation like Reliant infringe upon the right of others to do business it is wrong. Not illegal but wrong.

And please, stop with the pathetic censorship plea of yours. NOTHING in my post was fictional. I had a lot of opinion in it based on fact. If you didn't like what I had to say disprove it. If you can't do that you should not be on this forum.

[Houston19514]

Editor, since there is almost nothing correct in the entire quoted post, could you please just go ahead and delete it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, alright then, let's start with the first paragraph.

The Harris County Sports Authority, presuming you are referring to the Harris County Houston Sports Authority never was in charge of the Dome, NEVER, let alone for three decades. The owner of the Astros had control of the Dome until the Astros moved to MinuteMaid Park.

Second Paragraph:

Reliant Stadium was not built in any hurry-up fashion for the SuperBowl, that was just icing on the cake. That should be fairly obvious to anyone "familiar" with the area, given that the stadium opened in 2002 but the SuperBowl was not until 2004. Regardless, Reliant had little, if anything, to do with any supposed "fast development" and they certainly had NOTHING to do with the site selection or architecture of the stadium. Reliant just has a naming-rights agreement, that's all; they do not in any way control the development or operations of Reliant Park. They did not even come into the picture until well after the stadium was under construction... a little late for them to be responsible for the location of the stadium, don't you think? Likewise with regard to Reliant Center... that was already well under construction before Reliant entered the picture. With regard to buying out the people to the west, I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of that land was vacant, and again, Reliant had nothing to do with it. The dome and all of Reliant Park are controlled now by the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation, with large influence, obviously, from the Houston Texans and the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo organization. In any event, the purchases and sales were voluntary. I don't believe they used the power of eminent domain. Yes, further up Main Street, some other properties have been cleaned up, but I don't know that any of that was done through the power of eminent domain either. So the city and the all-powerful powers-that-be wanted to clean up Main Street downtown and Reliant Park... what is wrong with that?

Third paragraph:

Again, Reliant had nothing whatsoever to do with the location or development of any of the facilities at Reliant Park, nor do they now own, control, or operate Reliant Park. That is plainly and simply a matter of historical record. You seem to be making some assumptions about these "family-owned businesses" who were "driven from the land". Do you actually know that was the case? In any event, you say that it is somehow "wrong" for one person to buy another person's property in a free and open exchange when the seller has a family-owned business on his property? I'm not sure what kind of economic system you have in mind to impose down there in Houston, but in most of America and in most free-market economies, a person who leases a property only has the right to stay there until the lease expires. They have no rights or reasonable expectations beyond that. You are absolutely right, the economic development folks in Houston wanted to get rid of a lot of the rather-shady businesses and motels that were operating on South Main. It's kind of cute to see someone wave the flag of "family-owned businesses" in honor of by-the-hour motels, massage parlors, modeling studios and such. And again, as far as I know, all of this was done without invoking the power of the state (in other words without using eminent domain or condemnation); it was all done in free market transactions.

Fourth paragraph:

The age of Bob McNair is largely, if not completely irrelevant. The deals are with his corporation, not with him personally. The corporation will survive him. The Texans have thirty-year stadium lease and non-relocation agreement with the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation (note, the agreement is NOT with Reliant because of course Reliant has no control over the facility).

Fifth and Sixth paragraphs:

I have no argument with your proposal to turn the dome into a museum. The more ideas for the dome the better.

Seventh paragraph:

The city is not currently involved in the dome property at all and never has been, and the last thing I would think we need is another government entity to get involved. And again, Reliant has no "claim to the dome," other than the right to have their name on it, so we call your proposal the Reliant Astrodome Museum of Everyting Related to Houston ;-)

Eighth paragraph:

I have no clue. I'll presume you're right about the Ryan O'Neil movie.

P.S. No, I do not now and never have worked for Reliant or any of its current or former affiliated companies. I have no connection to Reliant whatsoever. Just call me a stickler for accuracy.

[LarryDallas]

My turn.

PG1

The Harris County Sports Authroity oversaw every aspect of the

dome in the past. It was never owned by the Astros. In fact, the uproar over the destruction of the famous Astros scoreboard was "blamed" on football by many. If the Astros had total control over it there would have probably been more of an effort to save that scoreboard.

PG2

Talk of getting a superbowl in town started as soon as talk of

getting a new NFL team started. The superbowl was the goal from the

get go of McNair's desire to bring back the NFL. I can't speak for

Bob but the city and businesses which would make money from a superbowl

were salivating from the start.

Of course, the super bowl did not come until 2 years after the stadium was built. The locations for the game prior to that were already finalized way before Houston

became viable for a superbowl. I would also immagine they wanted to

get the bugs out of the building before hosting a bowl game. The contracts to host the week long festivities for the game require much competition and it is a long process which can take up to and over a year. It was impossible to have a superbowl in town the year the stadium opened.

You are somewhat right about the land west of the staudium having been

mostly unoccupied. South Main was full of businesses all of the way from

the loop to where it hits OST. There was a large area of land behind the businesses on S. Main all of the way to Kirby which was undeveloped. Had the plan not been gentrification the parking lots and Texans practive facility could still

have been built without disturbing existing business on South Main. If the people did not want to hurt their virgin eyes a wall could have been put up on the west side of the lot.

PG3

I can't belive that Reliant just kind of signed up to put their name on an entire park at a moment's notice. The deal went public after the construction of the stadium was underway but deals had to have been made behind closed doors prior to construction. You can't honestly think that a company like Relinat would have knowledge of a new park being built in town but then just sit back and wait until it was done to then join up and slap a name on it. Reliant or someone who works for them had a big time influence in the project from the start.

As for the businesses on South Main they were not all red light district establishments as you seem to think. They had restaraunts and a really good car detailing place where a parking lot now sits. I had been to that car wash place and the Mister Carwash further up the road and the mom and pops one did a better job at better price.

I must however point out that "family business" does not mean "for families" as you seem to think. Think of familiy business are more along the lines of independent owner/opperator. How do I know this? The names on the businesses were not Marriott Courtyard, Holiday Inn Express, the aforementioned Mister Carwash, etc.

You made a good little speech on America and the free- market economy and kudos to you on it but do you really believe in it? I don't think you do because those rules of free enterprise seem to apply only when a business fits in with your value and moral system which is all very subjective. I think the adult bookstore, pay by hour motel, and smoke shop owner should have the same right to do business as high end places do. Power of eminent domain was used to take land for the expansion of S Main from 2 lanes going each way to the current layout before the stadium construction got underway. It was pretty underhanded becasue the whole road was a muddy mess for over 3 years as the work was done at a slow pace to be completed concurrently with the stadium. When it rained the north bound side would flood. Business probably suffered due to this deliberate way to sort of get the "undesirables" out.

The point here is that it was wrong to do things to get those places to go. I am no fan of shady places that are havens for hookers, junkies, and common street criminals which is why I choose not to live in such an area. If the business owners out there decided they wanted to do biz in such a place then more power to them as long as no laws were being broken.

This may come as a shock to you but laws are broken in hotels with names like the Four Seasons, Hitlon Intercontinental, the Omni, and the Icon. Sex and drugs are bought and sold in those places as well. The prices for such things have a relation to the prices of the establishments they take place in but it is still prostitution if a $500 per hour "escort" sleeps with someone in a suite of a 5 star hotel or if a $10 street walker turns a trick in an hourly motel.

PG4

Like I said in the first post I do not follow the deals the Texans made with the city so I'll have to take your word on that one.

PG 5&6

I agree (there is a God!).

PG7

The city must get involved in the dome if it is to be preserved. When a govt. entity is not invloved things like Space Center Houston (c/o Disney design) happend. The old NASA museum was very stately and proper with a layout sure to impress any vistor. It had complete displays of all of the trophies given for the missions, the pen collection of various presidents and congressmen used to sign key doccuments in NASA history, many more displays of actual equipment used by NASA, etc. The current center is geared towards children with video games, a jungle gym, and that air hockey chair thing. The tram ride to buildings is a great addition but the rest of it was better the old way; especially the no charge admission which probably impressed foreign tourists. A govt. entity would keep things in perspective better than a private firm because profit motives lead business to gear things they way they do.

Disney made is very clear that NASA would draw more kids if they geared Space Center Houston for kids. So, the old building which was part of the main NASA complex was abandoned as a museum completely and adults lost a great thing. The state run San Jacinto monument museum (minus the added theater) has remained unchanged for 20+years. Something like that needs to go into the dome. Best of all it is still free to see the museum.

We had a digital divide in this country back when the internet was still young and computers were not cheap. A govt. run museum is the only way to keep things low cost and not help widen the cultural divide. Space Center Houston costs something like $12-16 for an adult. That does not seem like much for one person but it adds up for many persons and sometimes that does make the difference between going or not if someone does not have money to burn on a daytrip. If a dome museum ticket exceeds the $5-$8 range it will have been priced too high.

BTW, "Houston Museum at the Astrodome" would be a better name. Yours is too long to print in travel brochures and the print would have to be very small on ticket stubs with so many characters. =) Older citizens like museums and we wouldn't want to strain their eyes would we? =)

[Houston19514]

This is getting very tedious, so I'll just take one paragraph at a time...

I don't know what this mythical "Houston Sports Authority" is that you keep referring to... Do you perhaps mean the Houston Sports Assosciation?

That would be the private group that owned the Houston Astros...

and signed a 40-year lease on the facility in 1961. Astrodome Lease Please note I never said the Astros OWNED the Astrodome. The Astrodome is and always has been owned by Harris County. If you are meaning to refer to the Houston Sports ASSOCIATION, you are absolutely right, they did oversee every aspect of the dome. But, as I've demonstrated, the Houston Sports Association WAS the same entity as the Astros.

Now, I have not been able to track down yet the exact relationship of the Oilers to the dome. But if the Astros have the primary lease, they would certainly have an interest in keeping the Oilers happy and playing in the facility. (The Astros, or Houston Sports Association wouldn't make much money on concessions etc if the Oilers were playing in Jacksonville, which they were threatening to do at the time of the remodeling.) That would explain why they would go along with the removal of the scoreboard and expansion of seating in order to keep the Oilers in town.

[Houston19514]

PG2

Talk of getting a superbowl in town started as soon as talk of

getting a new NFL team started. The superbowl was the goal from the

get go of McNair's desire to bring back the NFL. I can't speak for

Bob but the city and businesses which would make money from a superbowl

were salivating from the start.

Of course, the super bowl did not come until 2 years after the stadium was built. The locations for the game prior to that were already finalized way before Houston

became viable for a superbowl. I would also immagine they wanted to

get the bugs out of the building before hosting a bowl game.  The contracts to host the week long festivities for the game require much competition and it is a long process which can take up to and over a year.  It was impossible to have a superbowl in town the year the stadium opened. 

You are somewhat right about the land west of the staudium having been

mostly unoccupied. South Main was full of businesses all of the way from

the loop to where it hits OST.  There was a large area of land behind the businesses on S. Main all of the way to Kirby which was undeveloped.  Had the plan not been gentrification the parking lots and Texans practive facility could still

have been built without disturbing existing business on South Main.  If the people did not want to hurt their virgin eyes a wall could have been put up on the west side of the lot.

Well, yes, yes, yes. There is no denying that the SuperBowl was in the dreams of both Bob McNair and the leadership of Houston before the Texans started playing (and I never suggested otherwise). But it is quite a stretch of logic to say that, therefore the site and design of the Reliant Stadium and Reliant Park complex were "developed fast to get that super bowl in". In fact, the selection of the Astrodome grounds for the stadium site, and the basic design of Reliant Park, was a done-deal well before the Texans were even awarded their NFL franchise; this was not a rushed deal by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't really know what your point is regarding the few businesses that were, in your memory, bought out along Main Street to make way for the Main Street entrance to Reliant Park and additional parking. (I must say, it's just a little difficult to follow your arguments... one line you're complaining about the lack of parking and the next you're complaining about moves they made to increase parking.) Was eminent domain used to buy out these businesses (other than those who you claim were removed by eminent domain for the widening of Main Street)? If not, I can not see what the issue or complaint is (and I'll return to the whole free market issue in a later response). (And I think there will be an opportunity to discuss the matter of eminent domain for road widening in my comments on a later paragraph.)

[Houston19514]

PG3

I can't belive that Reliant just kind of signed up to put their name on an entire park at a moment's notice. The deal went public after the construction of the stadium was underway but deals had to have been made behind closed doors prior to construction.  You can't honestly think that a company like Relinat would have knowledge of a new park being built in town but then just sit back and wait until it was done to then join up and slap a name on it.  Reliant or someone who works for them had a big time influence in the project from the start. 

As for the businesses on South Main they were not all red light district establishments as you seem to think.  They had restaraunts and a really good car detailing place where a parking lot now sits. I had been to that car wash place and the Mister Carwash further up the road and the mom and pops one did a better job at better price. 

I must however point out that "family business" does not mean "for families" as you seem to think.  Think of familiy business are more along the lines of independent owner/opperator.  How do I know this?  The names on the businesses were not Marriott Courtyard, Holiday Inn Express, the aforementioned Mister Carwash, etc. 

You made a good little speech on America and the free- market economy and kudos to you on it but do you really believe in it?  I don't think you do because those rules of free enterprise seem to apply only when a business fits in with your value and moral system which is all very subjective.  I think the adult bookstore, pay by hour motel, and smoke shop owner should have the same right to do business as high end places do.  Power of eminent domain was used to take land for the expansion of S Main from 2 lanes going each way to the current layout  before the stadium construction got underway.  It was pretty underhanded becasue the whole road was a muddy mess for over 3 years as the work was done at a slow pace to be completed concurrently with the stadium.  When it rained the north bound side would flood.  Business probably suffered due to this deliberate way to sort of get the "undesirables" out. 

The point here is that it was wrong to do things to get those places to go.  I am no fan of shady places that are havens for hookers, junkies, and common street criminals which is why I choose not to live in such an area.  If the business owners out there decided they wanted to do biz in such a place then more power to them as long as no laws were being broken.

This may come as a shock to you but laws are broken in hotels with names like the Four Seasons, Hitlon Intercontinental, the Omni, and the Icon.  Sex and drugs are bought and sold in those places as well.  The prices for such things have a relation to the prices of the establishments they take place in but it is still prostitution if a $500 per hour "escort" sleeps with someone in a suite of a 5 star hotel or if a $10 street walker turns a trick in an hourly motel.

Don't be ridiculous. Nobody suggested that Reliant signed up "on a moment's notice." The naming rights deal was completed after months of marketing and negotiations with various competitors for the rights. And no doubt at least weeks of negotiations between Reliant and the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation for the final deal. Why in your rather fertile imagination would the deal have to have been done behind closed doors before construction of the stadium was even begun? That's just illogical and is not the way these deals tend to occur. The companies buying the naming rights to these sports facilities like to see what they are putting their names on and get a pretty good physical idea of what the signage oppoortunities are, etc, etc.

Okay, they weren't all red-light type establishments. Your point?

I don't know where you got the idea that I think family businesses mean "for families." I did not have any such thing in mind... But in any event, your point would be...??

Yes, I really believe in the free market. Where would you get any idea suggesting otherwise? What in anything I've written in this thread or anywhere else would give anyone the idea that I might think that free enterprise "seem to apply only when a business fits in with your value and moral system which is all very subjective." Where do you come up with this stuff? I have no argument whatsoever with the rights of adult bookstore owners, pay-by-the-hour motels, and smoke shops to do business, so long as they comply with the law, and I have written nothing to suggest otherwise. I certainly do believe in free enterprise and the full right of any property owner to sell his property as he sees fit. It was you who said otherwise. You say power of eminent domain was used to take land for the expansion of South Main. You may be stepping on your point here. Were the businesses along Main taken for the parking lots or were they taken by eminent domain for the widening of Main Street? In any event, you are saying that they DELAYED the completion of the widening project to coincide with the opening of the stadium? Let me get this right... you are actually suggesting some vast conspiracy of Bob McNair, Harris County, the city, the roadbuilders, the Harris County Houston Sports Authority, the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation, and, oh, of course, the grand puppetmaster, Reliant Energy to stretch out a road construction project for three years just to force some "undesirables" out? Whew. Seems like it would have been a LOT cheaper and a LOT easier just to buy them out. I don't know what else to say to that idea, other than LOL. You know, it's not like delays in road-building projects are unheard of in Houston. Or all of those delays part of some grand conspiracy to drive certain businesses out. Are the delays in the downtown street projects an attempt to drive out Shell Oil, Reliant Energy, Calpine, etc. Better yet, maybe those delays were a grand conspiracy to drive out Enron, and look, it WORKED. ;-)

Why is it wrong to "get businesses to go" if they are in the way of a major road expansion or if they are bought out in a free market exchange (and you have shown me none who were in any way "forced" out in any way other than by eminent domain for the road expansion.) I agree, more power to them if they wanted to do business in those locations (so long as they complied with the laws). But, also, more power to them if they choose to sell their business in a volunatry exchange. And again, if they were just lessees, they have no rights or expectations beyond the term of their lease. If their property owner wants to sell to someone who is going to tear down the building, that is his/her right. The business owner has the right then to find a new location.

Again, don't be ridiculous; of course it comes as no shock to me that laws may be broken occasionally in the Four Seasons, etc. But, again, what is your point? If someone wants to buy the Four Seasons Hotel and tear it down, more power to them. If the Four Seasons were next to a road being widened and had to be seized by eminent domain, well, so what? (and remember a taking by eminent domain does not mean the property is just taken; the property owner still must get fair compensation for the property.) I really don't understand what your point is. Was it somehow wrong for city leaders to want to clean up Main Street to make things look a little nicer for residents and visitors alike, to make Houston, to use a popular phrase, a more "liveable city?" Other than your rather crazy conspiracy theory, do you have any evidence supporting your claim that businesses were forced out unfairly or illegally?

[Houston19514]

PG4

Like I said in the first post I do not follow the deals the Texans made with the city so I'll have to take your word on that one.

Or you could try doing some research before posting wild claims. It appears you have access to the internet. It's amazing what FACTS one can find with a little effort. (and again, the COUNTY, not the city, and not Reliant Energy, owns the Reliant Park complex. The Texans made their deal with the Harris County Sports and Convention Corporation, an entity owned by Harris County, not the city of Houston)

[Houston19514]

PG7

The city must get involved in the dome if it is to be preserved.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[danes75]

Hmmm.... well, first off, I'd like disagree with the whole NASA Space Center/Disney thing being bad. Yes, before it was free, it was authentic, and it was stately and proper. It was also boring and unprofitable.

You speak of profit motives. If its not making a profit, then its losing money. And if its a government run facility, that means its loosing MY money. Even if the project breaks even EVERY YEAR, it still will never have the money for capital improvements or renovations.

Which is why that rocket's laying on its side out in front of NASA in the rain instead of standing upright in a climate controlled environment.

Anytime the goverment attempts to do something it usually ends up underdelivered and overpriced.

[greystone08(returns)]

I might sound like i'm straddling between the fence on this one but for history purposes, i personally don't want to see them tear it down. i think it is one of the most important things that symbolizes Houston's history. Imploding the astrodome is a big no-no to most Houstonians. On the other hand, i do think that two of those stadiums right next to eachother doesn't really look that intriguing, just cluttered. I think it was a mistake putting the Reliant Stadium right next to the Astrodome if there were no written plans for tearing it down. They did the same thing in Denver at the time they opened up the new Invesco field stadium in 2001. They built it right next to the old Mile-Hi city stadium and they stood right next to eachother for the longest while. The old Mile-Hi stadium no longer exists, they finally tore it down after a good year or so. Not intending to contradict what i said earlier, of course i'd hate to see the Astrodome go, but i do think that if Houston wants to be considered a less of a hap-hazard developed city, something has got to give. I understand that Houston might have a hard time letting it go. As someone stated earlier, the Astrodome help put Houston on the map. It was the eighth wonder of the world. B of A, put the Astrodome to some use. The Space theme park didn't sound like too bad a idea. It would definitely become a tourist attraction because when people come to football games, they already have the option of an entertainment idea right next door. it does depress me to see it just sitting there, lifeless, and forming decay.

[C2H]

AHH i say TEAR HER DOWN. it's not serving any purpose. It was best said to me at church the other day, " Nobody or anything can expect to make progress if they are still holding on to old luggage". Well the Astrodome is old luggage, we gotta make room for the new luggage. The eighth wonder of the world is a thing of the past, yesteryear- time to let it go.

[MidtownCoog]

How about a nice big park there once we blow it up?

[Guest danax]

AHH i say TEAR HER DOWN. it's not serving any purpose. It was best said to me at church the other day, " Nobody or anything can expect to make progress if  they are still holding on to old luggage". Well the Astrodome is old luggage, we gotta make room for the new luggage. The eighth wonder of the world is a thing of the past, yesteryear- time to let it go.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Progress..........converting it into something useful would be progress too. I say we need to save the old girl. Whatever would be built in it's stead will be old

luggage one day too.

Besides, it's the only wonder of the world we have ever had.

[tw2ntyse7en]

...

[bruce_oneal]

i sorta liked the sports activity idea. make it wild inside (mountains, lakes, etc.) and let people come in to mountain climb, ski, dirt bike, etc.

[skwatra]

i heard an idea of putting in a bunch of retail, a rollercoaster, and hotel or something, but the problem was they (i don't know who) wouldn't allow any parking during home texans games, or the rodeo, which took alot away from anything you could do with the dome.

anybody heard anything about that idea recently, or know who put it forward (private, city)?

[Hunter]

Humm! I like the idea of a sports complex with mountains and stuff. I think that woudl work. But only if it is not to costly to get in. But I know Houston and they will charge an outlandish fee to get in.

[bruce_oneal]

Humm! I like the idea of a sports complex with mountains and stuff. I think that woudl work. But only if it is not to costly to get in. But I know Houston and they will charge an outlandish fee to get in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah ... it would probably be outlandish. but then, so too would the fun ... can you imagine hiking through airconditioned comfort? lol

[Hunter]

yeah ... it would probably be outlandish.  but then, so too would the fun ... can you imagine hiking through airconditioned comfort?  lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be incredible. I can so see that place being turned into a giant indoor park with all kinds of activities. No gas powered equipment allowed at all in it. We could have mountain climbing, Hiking trails. botancial gardens, bike trails, birds, butterflies, caves, swimming pools, education rooms, aquariums, fishing contests, paddle boats, and if we do it right sking, canoing, and all kinds of stuff. A massive indoor sporting complex.

We could even have a kids section.

[bruce_oneal]

That would be incredible. I can so see that place being turned into a giant indoor park with all kinds of activities. No gas powered equipment allowed at all in it. We could have mountain climbing, Hiking trails. botancial gardens, bike trails, birds, butterflies, caves, swimming pools, education rooms, aquariums, fishing contests, paddle boats, and if we do it right sking, canoing, and all kinds of stuff. A massive indoor sporting complex.

We could even have a kids section.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

exactly ... that's what i was thinking too ... apparently some group has plans for something like that, but not sure if/when it will get off the ground. i am sure funding and construction is a major issue for anything related to the astrodome.

[Hunter]

I can see it happening and I really do not think it woudl take much to do. But I do recommend that they find a way to keep noise levels down thought. They could use a sound damping equipment.

This way it will be more enjoyable for everyone. And only use equipment that does not make much noise. Electric motors if required.

[GovernorAggie]

I personally like the idea of a Houston-oriented museum. Houston has a very interesting history, full of a lot of significant events both to the city as well as to the country. There could be displays comparing the "bigness" of Houston (landwise) to other cities, and maybe even a scaled, walk-through model of the city. There could maybe even be a "Houston in transition" type exhibit, with like-like cityscapes of old Houston. There could be an "experience" type exhibit of driving on the Gulf freeway in the 1940s, since it was the first of many that have shaped Houston today.