ricco67 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Same can be said for motorists with ipod \ stereo \ gps \ while smoking \ shaving \ drinking etc... I still find it hard to believe she just ran straight into oncoming traffic, but maybe so.I don't find it hard to believe at all. there have been cases when joggers ran into the paths of trains. I understand the need to find something else to focus on while you're running, but do you really need to cut yourself off from the world like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DistribAire P.E. Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 oh I dont find it hard to believe. I have people just walk out in front of me when going through down time all the time! And they arent listening to ipods. Heck even happened this morning!! very sad story, at least she was identified before she passed so that her family isnt left wondering what happened to her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott08 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Last year there was an incident in Dallas that got a lot of publicity. A jogger wearing headphones turned into the path of a cyclist on the White Rock Lake path, fell on her head, and died pretty much on the spot. I am sorry about what happened, but as both a runner and cyclist, I NEVER wear headphones when on a public road/path. Even the Memorial Park path which is only runners is still pretty risky to be in your own little world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 11th and Heights may be the worst intersection for inattentive joggers in the entire city. It is routine for them to completely ignore traffic as they jog across 11th. I always watch out for them, as I'd hate to live with the memory of hitting one, even if they don't seem to care if I do.I feel for the woman's family and the driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little frau Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Just heard on Ch. 13 five o'clock news that this accident happened very early in the morning, while it was still dark.Seems that if she did not hear the auto, she would have noticed the headlights. Very sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesw Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Truly a sad story and my thoughts are with the families of all concerned.I jog on the path and agree that the intersection is also a mess. Motorists that are turning left from Heights onto 11th routinely fail to yield the right of way to joggers as they pull across the crossing. I admit that I have thumped a few cars on the hood as I crossed 11th...I do not wear ear-phones while jogging.James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Truly a sad story and my thoughts are with the families of all concerned.. Motorists that are turning left from Heights onto 11th routinely fail to yield the right of way to joggers as they pull across the crossing. I admit that I have thumped a few cars on the hood as I crossed 11th...Now the question is, who has the proper right of way?Typically, I will give the right of way while making a left on 11th when I have a light, but if they're at least a good 15 feet or more from the intersection, I can continue my turn without worry. Now, if they're running/jogging, am I supposed to be the mind reader as to what the jogger's intentions?Additionally, if I'm driving down 11th and I have the green and crossing Heights, I'm not going to look for joggers; I'm going to be looking for other red light runners. Does this mean when I see a jogger I should simply slam on my brakes and risk getting into an accident for someone else? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 This entire event could have been prevented. But one question that comes to mind is...who the heck covers their ears when jogging/cycling? why in the world would anyone want to do that? do they not find enough junk stimuli in the advertisements surrounding our every waking moment to want to hear more? srsly?Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverJK Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 They should put a railing or bushes or something to force joggers to cross heights/11th/heights if they aren't going to make a crosswalk (or at least make them knowingly leave the jogging path). I nearly hit someone there one evening who was jogging w/ headphones (i ended up slamming my brakes, swerving across both lanes as i was in the inside lane, and running up on the curb/grass, and they looked at me like I was crazy). It is dangerous enough out there with all the non-attentive terrible drivers, you have to really pay attention when your out there. I'm part of a Heights Friday Midnight Longboarding crew, and we were reflective gear, lights, etc., and we still have to be super careful because people simply do not look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 They should put a railing or bushes or something to force joggers to cross heights/11th/heights if they aren't going to make a crosswalk (or at least make them knowingly leave the jogging path). This is the problem. Driving home yesterday, I saw people with strollers and joggers trying to weave through left turn traffic from Heights after they waited for the light at 11th to change to red. The walk/do not walk signals are set up to have people cross Heights, then 11th and the Heights again. But the jogging trail is set up so that it looks like there is a cross walk directly accross 11th. Headphones or not, the way it is set up (and the way people actually use it) is not safe for pedestrians. A few bucks to direct people to the cross walk may save a life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Would a few 311 requests change this? Or someone in that area contacting a councilperson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The jogger would normally have right of way over a vehicle turning into her path. However, as noted, joggers crossing 11th in the median are making an illegal crossing, so the left turn vehicles likely have the right of way. It is unlikely that this jogger was killed by a left turning vehicle, however, as they are not travelling fast enough, and the impact would be more of a side impact than head on.I will guarantee that any attempt at forcing the joggers to cross that intersection legally will be met with howls of protests from the joggers the city is attempting to protect. They will feel it is their right to cross at the median. The only way to accomodate them would be to put a pedestrian button at the intersection that produces an all red situation for them to cross. This would cause more congestion, obviously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heights_yankee Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Would a few 311 requests change this? Or someone in that area contacting a councilperson?I emailed CM Gonzales and Rep Farrar with a link to this thread. I wear an iPod when I walk/jog, but I only put one ear bud in so I can be aware of my surroundings. This isn't just a traffic issue- women are also assaulted jogging and being tuned out to your surroundings makes you more vulnerable. Still, as a regular user of the Heights trail, I think a crossing light there could do a lot of good and cut down on the frustration/confusion of who gets to go when. At this point, maybe it could even save a life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The jogger would normally have right of way over a vehicle turning into her path. However, as noted, joggers crossing 11th in the median are making an illegal crossing, so the left turn vehicles likely have the right of way. It is unlikely that this jogger was killed by a left turning vehicle, however, as they are not travelling fast enough, and the impact would be more of a side impact than head on.I will guarantee that any attempt at forcing the joggers to cross that intersection legally will be met with howls of protests from the joggers the city is attempting to protect. They will feel it is their right to cross at the median. The only way to accomodate them would be to put a pedestrian button at the intersection that produces an all red situation for them to cross. This would cause more congestion, obviously.Exactly. I don't like it when people automatically blame a driver for an Auto/ped. The cyclist/pedestrian needs to share some part of the burden and take some responsibility for their own safety as well. If for some insane reason they put in a button for the joggers, I hope it doesn't work during high congestion times.Then again, no one is traveling very fast that those times anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesw Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Wait a second here - we're talking about the established trail that goes up the middle of the Heights esplanade from I-10 to 20th street? It crosses at least 20 streets - including 11th - are you all suggesting that everyone who uses it is j-walking at least 20 times!?!?! HAHAHA!!! No - I don't think every time you get to an intersection you are supposed to cross back over to Heights, then cross the numbered street, then back to the esplanade again. Regardless, a pedestrian will always have the right of way over a vehicle turning left. They both have a "green" to go but the vehicle must yield the right of way to the pedestrian - even if you think the pedestrian is j-walkind.CheersJames Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 ^I agree about turning traffic yielding (though whether on foot or bike I assume no one will yield to me in any situation). In the Chronicle article, I believe it said the vehicle was heading west on 11th with a green light - so the lady crossed 11th from the N/S Heights trail in the path of the car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedScare Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Wait a second here - we're talking about the established trail that goes up the middle of the Heights esplanade from I-10 to 20th street? It crosses at least 20 streets - including 11th - are you all suggesting that everyone who uses it is j-walking at least 20 times!?!?! HAHAHA!!! No - I don't think every time you get to an intersection you are supposed to cross back over to Heights, then cross the numbered street, then back to the esplanade again. Regardless, a pedestrian will always have the right of way over a vehicle turning left. They both have a "green" to go but the vehicle must yield the right of way to the pedestrian - even if you think the pedestrian is j-walkind.CheersJamesYes, I am suggesting it, though in fairness to joggers, the city has encouraged it by having the trail lead right to the curb at that location. Though the median is overly large, it IS still a median, and it is illegal to cross at that point unless there is a crosswalk...something that is definitely needed at each of those intersections to let motorists know to watch for inattentive joggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Wait a second here - we're talking about the established trail that goes up the middle of the Heights esplanade from I-10 to 20th street? It crosses at least 20 streets - including 11th - are you all suggesting that everyone who uses it is j-walking at least 20 times!?!?! HAHAHA!!! No - I don't think every time you get to an intersection you are supposed to cross back over to Heights, then cross the numbered street, then back to the esplanade again. Regardless, a pedestrian will always have the right of way over a vehicle turning left. They both have a "green" to go but the vehicle must yield the right of way to the pedestrian - even if you think the pedestrian is j-walkind.CheersJamesOn the streets with stops signs, the jogging trail has you cross in front of the stop sign. At 11th, the walk/do not walk signs (brand new) are clearly set up to have you cross heights, then 11th, then heights again. No one does that because the jogging path begins and ends at Heights, making it look like there is a crosswalk directly across 11th. And, as noted above, pedestrians crossing 11th would be jaywalking and would not have the legal ROW. Best fix would be a special cross walk for people on the jogging trail. Now that construction is over, that intersection isn't that bad and could handle a little delay now and then. Next best would be some barrier to force people to at least think twice before jaywalking on 11th. Ipods aside, I think it is easy to get into a grove with all the intersections, think that 11th is just another intersection controlled by a stop sign and accidentally step into traffic on 11th, believing that it is just another intersection controlled by a stop sign. Not everyone is going to know the neighborhood and know that crossing 11th st can be worse that crossing Yale st. There are just too many people using the trail to leave things up to chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Best solution in my opinion would be to paint in a crosswalk without button. Then put signage on the trail (Warning: Watch for cars) and signage on the road (Warning: Watch for crossing joggers).Not sure how to handle who had the right of way when there's an accident, but at the very least put in some signage to prevent accidents. Edited October 12, 2011 by kylejack 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I wonder what would happen if someone just painted a crosswalk on the road, or at least a big "LOOK!" on either side? Would the city come and wash it off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutfieldDan Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Best solution in my opinion would be to paint in a crosswalk without button. Then put signage on the trail (Warning: Watch for cars) and signage on the road (Warning: Watch for crossing joggers).Not sure how to handle who had the right of way when there's an accident, but at the very least put in some signage to prevent accidents.Good solution. Certainly it's tragic that she was killed, but we have to be careful to not overreact. Have there been any other incidents like this? Anyone else been run over when jogging on Heights Boulevard? I run often on the Heights trail while listening to my iPod. I've never had even a near miss despite listening to an audible book. It's hard for me to understand how someone could be so distracted to not notice a car bearing down on them when crossing an intersection, but it obviously happened. Accidents happen - that doesn't mean that we have to impose any silly regulations on joggers or cars for that matter.On a related matter, when is the city going to fill in the hole at Heights and I10? Bicycling under I10 is very hazardous with the lane constriction and the big deep hole. It's dangerous to cars too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricco67 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Good solution. Certainly it's tragic that she was killed, but we have to be careful to not overreact. Have there been any other incidents like this? Anyone else been run over when jogging on Heights Boulevard? I run often on the Heights trail while listening to my iPod. I've never had even a near miss despite listening to an audible book. It's hard for me to understand how someone could be so distracted to not notice a car bearing down on them when crossing an intersection, but it obviously happened. Accidents happen - that doesn't mean that we have to impose any silly regulations on joggers or cars for that matter.On a related matter, when is the city going to fill in the hole at Heights and I10? Bicycling under I10 is very hazardous with the lane constriction and the big deep hole. It's dangerous to cars too.I don't think anyone is trying to impose new rules or regulations for motorists or joggers, but just offering suggestions as to how to accommodate both. As far as the hole goes, call 311, but considering the amount of and nature of the construction in the area, I don't think it will receive a high priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverJK Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I say line the edges with shrubs and make people use the trail as signed. If they want to cross the bushes to cut across the median, they will know they are no longer on the trail. Something needs to be done here, as mentioned earlier, I nearly hit someone here and I know others have as well. I don't care who's fault it is, its tragic if anyone gets hurt. The neighborhood needs to work with the city to do something to make this intersection safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTAWACS Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 anyone know what happened to the driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutfieldDan Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I say line the edges with shrubs and make people use the trail as signed. If they want to cross the bushes to cut across the median, they will know they are no longer on the trail. Something needs to be done here, as mentioned earlier, I nearly hit someone here and I know others have as well. I don't care who's fault it is, its tragic if anyone gets hurt. The neighborhood needs to work with the city to do something to make this intersection safer.This is exactly what I mean about overreacting. Lots of pedestrians do stupid things. It doesn't mean that we should build barriers that affect everyone. This is one incident, yes tragic, but very rare. You put barriers up on the trail at every intersection making runners cross off Heights, cross at a side street crosswalk, then cross back to Heights, you're inconveniencing everyone. Besides making joggers cross three streets instead of one makes it three times as risky and three times as much a bother for cars too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevfiv Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm writing this being pretty naive about the trail, but why would one like this even be in existence without proper street crossings at larger intersections? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylejack Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm writing this being pretty naive about the trail, but why would one like this even be in existence without proper street crossings at larger intersections?Because Houston is very car-centric and expects pedestrians to take risks every day. I can think of a number of absurd bus stops that require you to walk a long way to get to a valid crossing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J008 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm writing this being pretty naive about the trail, but why would one like this even be in existence without proper street crossings at larger intersections?The new wal mart running trail will probably trump this one for absurdity. To run from heights to Washington on the trail will only require crossing Heights, crossing a wider and busier I-10 feeder , crossing back across heights (without an intersection), crossing the Khoeler extension and a couple other U-turns, crossing heights again, crossing the rail road tracks, and then crossing center street.(I suspect most will just stay on the sidewalk, $6M running trail be damned) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverJK Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 This is exactly what I mean about overreacting. Lots of pedestrians do stupid things. It doesn't mean that we should build barriers that affect everyone. This is one incident, yes tragic, but very rare. You put barriers up on the trail at every intersection making runners cross off Heights, cross at a side street crosswalk, then cross back to Heights, you're inconveniencing everyone. Besides making joggers cross three streets instead of one makes it three times as risky and three times as much a bother for cars too.Did I say all intersection? Only at the ones with lights. Yes this is one incident, but i know I personally nearly hit someone here because they werent paying attention (I've heard from others that people have been hit here before but not seriously injured). I honestly think this was an accident waiting to happen (because of the nature of people). BTW it isn't a barrier on the trail, it is a barrier to keep people ON the trail. Inconveniencing everyone??? Having to slam on your brakes and slam into a curb to prevent hitting someone is pretty dang inconvenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s3mh Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think there is a relatively easy fix for this. It might run up against some TxDOT reg, but I will leave that for the traffic engineers.Control the Heights north bound turn lane with a left turn signal and create a crosswalk directly across 11th. People will be able to cross when Heights has the green light, but will have a do not walk sign when the turn lane has a green light. Placing a walk/do not walk signal and cross walk directly across 11th will help keep people from walking into traffic on 11th from the trail and will sort out pedestrians and left turning vehicles from Heights. You would have to move the two lane split further back down Heights to give the left turn lane some more capacity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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